Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 andrenym007, I hope you report this Doctor to the proper regulating authorities in your state. State Medical Board or whoever I am not really sure. This idiot shouldn't be practicing medicine of any type and with his reaction he obviously doesn't know any thing about the typical and normal withdrawal symptoms of TRT treatment. Thats' what they are they are from the lack of proper TRT not because of it. Besides the very fact that you are asking for help with it means you not in any kind of " rage " no mater what this idiot says. I hope you do file a complain on this doctor. His actions are way out of line. Brett Dr. Barry Gordon >I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt >the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced >too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from >the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short >tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my >concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and >leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is >someof the response he sent me: > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have > significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. > That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to > try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a > problem. > In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse > psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, > " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related > phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your > T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and > considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with current > public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be > irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone > at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as > malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people have > in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best > suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given > psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol > you prefer. > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be > scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed > off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last > dose. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 I'm sorry for this kind of response but all he is doing is CHA (CYA 3 rd person)and these type of dr's are the ones that people will go after. Majority of them who do not take insurance do not keep detail notes that if anything like this does happen they have nothing to fall back on. One thing i have learned how to do is cover my our ass with detailed soap notes which are then reviewed by the DR for comments to be added if needed. If you are in NYC and want to make a 2 hour trip to see DR O and my self please PM me..I will send you the info > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is someof the response he sent me: > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a problem. > In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with current public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people have in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol you prefer. > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last dose. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 You know, another thought is the very fact that he called his lawyer is evidence in itself that he knows he has done something wrong. IE: in proscribing this for you in the way that he did. He know this already and it is why he is all ready consulting his lawyer. You don't need a psychiatric evaluation you need a doctor that knows how to properly proscribe TRT. I do hope he has learned his lesion and never proscribes TRT in this manner again let alone proscribing it at all. Brett Dr. Barry Gordon > > >>I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt >>the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced >>too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from >>the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short >>tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my >>concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and >>leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is >>someof the response he sent me: >> >> I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have >> significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. >> That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to >> try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a >> problem. >> In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse >> psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, >> " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related >> phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your >> T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and >> considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with >> current >> public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be >> irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone >> at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as >> malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people >> have >> in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best >> suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given >> psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, >> I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol >> you prefer. >> >> >> Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be >> scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed >> off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry >> norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled >> for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last >> dose. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 I'm not sure why he called his lawyer. It's not like I told him anything out of the norm? I sent him dr. crisler's protocol and told him that I felt the dose was a little high. You would think I told him that I was arrested for domestic violence! lol > > You know, another thought is the very fact that he called his lawyer is > evidence in itself that he knows he has done something wrong. IE: in > proscribing this for you in the way that he did. He know this already and > it is why he is all ready consulting his lawyer. You don't need a > psychiatric evaluation you need a doctor that knows how to properly > proscribe TRT. I do hope he has learned his lesion and never proscribes TRT > in this manner again let alone proscribing it at all. > Brett > Dr. Barry Gordon > > > > > >>I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt > >>the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced > >>too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from > >>the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short > >>tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my > >>concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and > >>leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > >>someof the response he sent me: > >> > >> I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have > >> significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. > >> That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to > >> try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a > >> problem. > >> In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse > >> psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, > >> " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related > >> phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your > >> T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and > >> considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with > >> current > >> public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be > >> irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone > >> at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as > >> malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people > >> have > >> in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best > >> suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given > >> psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > >> I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol > >> you prefer. > >> > >> > >> Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be > >> scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed > >> off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > >> norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > >> for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last > >> dose. > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 A lot of doctors parctice the MD - YP method. Me Doctor, You Patient. I had a similar experience with Dr Livesey in NYC - he wanted to up the hcg dosage to 500ius ED so I brought him a copy of Dr Crisler's paper on HCG protocol - he proceeded to tell me that in his opinion Dr Crisler did not know what he was talking about and that if I didn't agree with his (Livesey's) methods I should dee another doctor - in essence he fired me!! If you're talking about Dr Gordon in Brooklyn - I've had e-mail correspondence wih him as well this ia what he told me In my opinion stable levels of T is the last thing you want. It's not physiologic and doesn't work. Stable levels of T lead to tissue desensitization and lack of stimulation. That's why topical T preparations work so poorly, if at all. With women I have to make certain that serum T levels are very low at the time of an injection. Also - you have to come to his office for the injection!! He told me this via e-mail If you don't have insurance the consultation fee is $200.00. Follow up treatment visits are $65.00 for men which includes the @$20.00 cost of the testosterone. Injections are given every 2 - 3 weeks. He attached this study as proof that his methods work Andrologia. 2008 Feb;40(1):44-8. Effects of testosterone gel followed by parenteral testosterone undecanoate on sexual dysfunction and on features of the metabolic syndrome. Saad F, Gooren L, Haider A, Yassin A. Department of Men's Healthcare, Bayer-Schering, Berlin, Germany. farid.saad@... The effects of administration of testosterone (T) gel, resulting in plasma T levels in the low range of reference values, followed by testosterone undecanoate (TU), producing plasma T levels in the mid-normal range, were measured in 27 hypogonadal men aged 47-74 years. T gel had positive effects on the International Index of Erectile Function, the Aging Males' Symptoms Scale and International Prostate Symptoms Score and on the metabolic syndrome. The improvement was larger when TU was administered and plasma T levels were higher. The reduction in waist circumference and plasma cholesterol were larger with TU than with T gel, while the increases in plasma high-density lipoprotein and sex hormone binding globulin (an indicator of the severity of the metabolic syndrome) were larger with TU than with T gel. Both T gel and TU appeared safe on prostate parameters. Plasma haemoglobin and haematocrit were elevated but remained in the normal range. The assumption that treatment with T is adequate when achieved plasma levels of T are within the reference range is no longer tenable. Some androgen-dependent biological functions require higher plasma T levels than others, and, moreover, these thresholds differ among men. PMID: 18211301 [PubMed - in process] Based on everything I've read about his methods I do not believe we should be using him - IMHO > > > > You know, another thought is the very fact that he called his lawyer is > > evidence in itself that he knows he has done something wrong. IE: in > > proscribing this for you in the way that he did. He know this already and > > it is why he is all ready consulting his lawyer. You don't need a > > psychiatric evaluation you need a doctor that knows how to properly > > proscribe TRT. I do hope he has learned his lesion and never proscribes TRT > > in this manner again let alone proscribing it at all. > > Brett > > Dr. Barry Gordon > > > > > > > > >>I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt > > >>the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced > > >>too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from > > >>the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short > > >>tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my > > >>concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and > > >>leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > > >>someof the response he sent me: > > >> > > >> I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have > > >> significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. > > >> That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to > > >> try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a > > >> problem. > > >> In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse > > >> psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, > > >> " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related > > >> phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your > > >> T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and > > >> considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with > > >> current > > >> public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be > > >> irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone > > >> at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as > > >> malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people > > >> have > > >> in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best > > >> suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given > > >> psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > > >> I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol > > >> you prefer. > > >> > > >> > > >> Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be > > >> scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed > > >> off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > > >> norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > > >> for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last > > >> dose. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Thanks for that response. I think Dr. Gordon was pissed off that I dare question his methods. I have made an appointment for now to see dr. michael Aziz in manhattan as my insurance takes him. I've seen some of his presentations on youtube and he was actually at the same conference with dr. crisler in las vegas last year. I will let everyone know how it goes. > > > > > > You know, another thought is the very fact that he called his lawyer is > > > evidence in itself that he knows he has done something wrong. IE: in > > > proscribing this for you in the way that he did. He know this already and > > > it is why he is all ready consulting his lawyer. You don't need a > > > psychiatric evaluation you need a doctor that knows how to properly > > > proscribe TRT. I do hope he has learned his lesion and never proscribes TRT > > > in this manner again let alone proscribing it at all. > > > Brett > > > Dr. Barry Gordon > > > > > > > > > > > >>I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt > > > >>the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced > > > >>too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from > > > >>the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short > > > >>tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my > > > >>concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and > > > >>leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > > > >>someof the response he sent me: > > > >> > > > >> I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have > > > >> significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. > > > >> That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to > > > >> try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a > > > >> problem. > > > >> In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse > > > >> psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, > > > >> " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related > > > >> phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your > > > >> T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and > > > >> considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with > > > >> current > > > >> public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be > > > >> irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone > > > >> at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as > > > >> malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people > > > >> have > > > >> in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best > > > >> suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given > > > >> psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > > > >> I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol > > > >> you prefer. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be > > > >> scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed > > > >> off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > > > >> norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > > > >> for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last > > > >> dose. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 I am a bit sick of crap by Dr.'s like this I would call him back and tell him it is criminal what he is doing to you having started you on TRT and now cutting you off it to let you crash. I would tell him the least he could do is keep treating you until you can find a new better. I mean WTF. Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 1:12 PM > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier > in the week telling him that I felt the dose he was giving > me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too far > apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler > and from the american endo board. I also told him that I > felt somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's why I > would like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the dose. > My mistake was sending him an email and leaving a paper > trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > someof the response he sent me: > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's > obvious that we have significantly different philosophies > and views on the treatment of TD. That being said, I > usually have little objection to patient's requests to try > reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, > we have a problem. > In your last email you informed me that you had significant > adverse psychiatric effects from the first two injections of > testosterone, " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does > not appear to be a dose related phenomenon since your > symptoms abated near the time one would expect your T levels > to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and > considering the potential seriousness of your reactions > along with current public and governmental concerns over > " roid rage " it would be irresponsible of me to continue > administering or prescribing testosterone at this > time. Such action on my part would likely be construed > as malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the > difficulty people have in getting testosterone deficiency > effectively treated. My best suggestion would be for > you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric > clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > I'd have no problem administering T according to an > acceptable protocol you prefer. > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his > name should be scrubbed from database as he also took a > blood test last week and brushed off the high estrogen > levels and his trt protocol is not the industry norm. Now I > need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing > from my last dose. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Hard we don't have PM's here give him your Email in your post. Co-Moderator Phil > From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...> > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 1:51 PM > I'm sorry for this kind of response > but all he is doing is CHA (CYA 3 rd person)and these type > of dr's are the ones that people will go after. > Majority of them who do not take insurance do not keep > detail notes that if anything like this does happen they > have nothing to fall back on. One thing i have learned > how to do is cover my our ass with detailed soap notes which > are then reviewed by the DR for comments to be added if > needed. > If you are in NYC and want to make a 2 hour trip to see DR > O and my self please PM me..I will send you the info > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week > telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me 400 > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too far apart. I > also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from > the american endo board. I also told him that I felt > somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's why I would > like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the dose. My > mistake was sending him an email and leaving a paper trail > as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is someof the > response he sent me: > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's > obvious that we have significantly different philosophies > and views on the treatment of TD. That being said, I > usually have little objection to patient's requests to try > reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, > we have a problem. > > In your last email you informed me that you had > significant adverse psychiatric effects from the first two > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and > " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related > phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one > would expect your T levels to be near their highest. I > consulted an attorney, and considering the potential > seriousness of your reactions along with current public and > governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be > irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing > testosterone at this time. Such action on my part > would likely be construed as malpractice if not > illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people have > in getting testosterone deficiency effectively > treated. My best suggestion would be for you to have > psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric clearance, > and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, I'd have > no problem administering T according to an acceptable > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that > his name should be scrubbed from database as he also took a > blood test last week and brushed off the high estrogen > levels and his trt protocol is not the industry norm. Now I > need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing > from my last dose. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Good luck I pray it all works out for you. Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 2:53 PM > Thanks for that response. I think Dr. > Gordon was pissed off that I dare question his methods. I > have made an appointment for now to see dr. michael Aziz in > manhattan as my insurance takes him. I've seen some of his > presentations on youtube and he was actually at the same > conference with dr. crisler in las vegas last year. I will > let everyone know how it goes. > > > > > > > > > > You know, another thought is the very fact > that he called his lawyer is > > > > evidence in itself that he knows he has done > something wrong. IE: in > > > > proscribing this for you in the way that he > did. He know this already and > > > > it is why he is all ready consulting his > lawyer. You don't need a > > > > psychiatric evaluation you need a doctor > that knows how to properly > > > > proscribe TRT. I do hope he has > learned his lesion and never proscribes TRT > > > > in this manner again let alone proscribing > it at all. > > > > Brett > > > > Dr. Barry > Gordon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>I sent my trt doctor an email > earlier in the week telling him that I felt > > > > >>the dose he was giving me 400 > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced > > > > >>too far apart. I also sent him > son\me literature from dr. crisler and from > > > > >>the american endo board. I also told > him that I felt somewhat short > > > > >>tempered on this dose and that's why > I would like him to accomodate my > > > > >>concerns and lower the dose. My > mistake was sending him an email and > > > > >>leaving a paper trail as most > doctors are paranoid these days. This is > > > > >>someof the response he sent me: > > > > >> > > > > >> I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's > literature and it's obvious that we have > > > > >> significantly different > philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. > > > > >> That being said, I usually have > little objection to patient's requests to > > > > >> try reasonable alternative dosing > regimens. Unfortunately, we have a > > > > >> problem. > > > > >> In your last email you informed me > that you had significant adverse > > > > >> psychiatric effects from the first > two injections of testosterone, > > > > >> " paranoia " and " agitation " . > This does not appear to be a dose related > > > > >> phenomenon since your symptoms > abated near the time one would expect your > > > > >> T levels to be near their > highest. I consulted an attorney, and > > > > >> considering the potential > seriousness of your reactions along with > > > > >> current > > > > >> public and governmental concerns > over " roid rage " it would be > > > > >> irresponsible of me to continue > administering or prescribing testosterone > > > > >> at this time. Such action on > my part would likely be construed as > > > > >> malpractice if not illegal. I > fully understand the difficulty people > > > > >> have > > > > >> in getting testosterone deficiency > effectively treated. My best > > > > >> suggestion would be for you to have > psychiatric evaluation. Given > > > > >> psychiatric clearance, and a period > of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > > > > >> I'd have no problem administering T > according to an acceptable protocol > > > > >> you prefer. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Now I'm not sure what to do? I > definitely think that his name should be > > > > >> scrubbed from database as he also > took a blood test last week and brushed > > > > >> off the high estrogen levels and > his trt protocol is not the industry > > > > >> norm. Now I need to find a new > doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > > > > >> for monday and that's right about > the time I'll be crashing from my last > > > > >> dose. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > ------------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Does Dr Aziz have a website or e-mail addy? > > > > > > > > You know, another thought is the very fact that he called his lawyer is > > > > evidence in itself that he knows he has done something wrong. IE: in > > > > proscribing this for you in the way that he did. He know this already and > > > > it is why he is all ready consulting his lawyer. You don't need a > > > > psychiatric evaluation you need a doctor that knows how to properly > > > > proscribe TRT. I do hope he has learned his lesion and never proscribes TRT > > > > in this manner again let alone proscribing it at all. > > > > Brett > > > > Dr. Barry Gordon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt > > > > >>the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced > > > > >>too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from > > > > >>the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short > > > > >>tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my > > > > >>concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and > > > > >>leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > > > > >>someof the response he sent me: > > > > >> > > > > >> I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have > > > > >> significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. > > > > >> That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to > > > > >> try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a > > > > >> problem. > > > > >> In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse > > > > >> psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, > > > > >> " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related > > > > >> phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your > > > > >> T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and > > > > >> considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with > > > > >> current > > > > >> public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be > > > > >> irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone > > > > >> at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as > > > > >> malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people > > > > >> have > > > > >> in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best > > > > >> suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given > > > > >> psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > > > > >> I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol > > > > >> you prefer. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be > > > > >> scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed > > > > >> off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > > > > >> norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > > > > >> for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last > > > > >> dose. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Since when have " psychiatric " reactions required one to discard necessary medical treatment? As an extreme example, consider another hormone- namely, cortisol. When dosage of cortisol is surpraphysiological (as is sometimes used for brain tumors), psychosis is a known possible reaction This does not usually call for termination of treatment so much as making adjustments. The fact that testosterone is a schedule 3 controlled substance and cortisol is not a controlled substance may call for different responses to adverse " psychiatric " reactions, but the lack of a dose relationship to potential " roid rage " is itself ridiculous. Penalties are stiff for prescribing anabolic steroids without medical necessity, not for adverse reactions occurring when treatment is necessary. I have Dr. Barry Gordon's book " Testosterone Deficiency " . Whereas it's good that it makes the public aware of the extent of the problem, it is noteworthy that it lacks any mention of controlling estrogen. I regarded it as a curious omission, yet it seems that Dr. Gordon has little concern for estrogen control in his practice, as well. It's a shame that he seems to be just another doctor in the dark about male hormone management. ~Xian > > > > You know, another thought is the very fact that he called his lawyer is > > evidence in itself that he knows he has done something wrong. IE: in > > proscribing this for you in the way that he did. He know this already and > > it is why he is all ready consulting his lawyer. You don't need a > > psychiatric evaluation you need a doctor that knows how to properly > > proscribe TRT. I do hope he has learned his lesion and never proscribes TRT > > in this manner again let alone proscribing it at all. > > Brett > > Dr. Barry Gordon > > > > > > > > >>I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt > > >>the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced > > >>too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from > > >>the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short > > >>tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my > > >>concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and > > >>leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > > >>someof the response he sent me: > > >> > > >> I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have > > >> significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. > > >> That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to > > >> try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a > > >> problem. > > >> In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse > > >> psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, > > >> " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related > > >> phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your > > >> T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and > > >> considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with > > >> current > > >> public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be > > >> irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone > > >> at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as > > >> malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people > > >> have > > >> in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best > > >> suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given > > >> psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > > >> I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol > > >> you prefer. > > >> > > >> > > >> Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be > > >> scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed > > >> off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > > >> norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > > >> for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last > > >> dose. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Phil I just called my primary and told him my story. He said he will look into it and call me later. What should I ask him for? What I mean by that is does he also have to write a prescription for syringes? Can you give me the doses and names of what I need? > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week > > telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me 400 > > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too far apart. I > > also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from > > the american endo board. I also told him that I felt > > somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's why I would > > like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the dose. My > > mistake was sending him an email and leaving a paper trail > > as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is someof the > > response he sent me: > > > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's > > obvious that we have significantly different philosophies > > and views on the treatment of TD. That being said, I > > usually have little objection to patient's requests to try > > reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, > > we have a problem. > > > In your last email you informed me that you had > > significant adverse psychiatric effects from the first two > > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and > > " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related > > phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one > > would expect your T levels to be near their highest. I > > consulted an attorney, and considering the potential > > seriousness of your reactions along with current public and > > governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be > > irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing > > testosterone at this time. Such action on my part > > would likely be construed as malpractice if not > > illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people have > > in getting testosterone deficiency effectively > > treated. My best suggestion would be for you to have > > psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric clearance, > > and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, I'd have > > no problem administering T according to an acceptable > > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that > > his name should be scrubbed from database as he also took a > > blood test last week and brushed off the high estrogen > > levels and his trt protocol is not the industry norm. Now I > > need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > > for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing > > from my last dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 You are so right it hurts. Co-Moderator Phil > From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 3:32 PM > Since when have " psychiatric " > reactions required one to discard necessary medical > treatment? As an extreme example, consider another > hormone- namely, cortisol. When dosage of cortisol is > surpraphysiological (as is sometimes used for brain tumors), > psychosis is a known possible reaction   This > does not usually call for termination of treatment so much > as making adjustments. The fact that testosterone is a > schedule 3 controlled substance and cortisol is not a > controlled substance may call for different responses to > adverse " psychiatric " reactions, but the lack of a dose > relationship to potential " roid rage " is itself > ridiculous. Penalties are stiff for prescribing > anabolic steroids without medical necessity, not for adverse > reactions occurring when treatment is necessary. > > I have Dr. Barry Gordon's book " Testosterone > Deficiency " . Whereas it's good that it makes the > public aware of the extent of the problem, it is noteworthy > that it lacks any mention of controlling estrogen. I > regarded it as a curious omission, yet it seems that Dr. > Gordon has little concern for estrogen control in his > practice, as well. > > It's a shame that he seems to be just another doctor in the > dark about male hormone management. > > ~Xian > > > > > > > > > You know, another thought is the very fact that > he called his lawyer is > > > evidence in itself that he knows he has done > something wrong. IE: in > > > proscribing this for you in the way that he > did. He know this already and > > > it is why he is all ready consulting his > lawyer. You don't need a > > > psychiatric evaluation you need a doctor that > knows how to properly > > > proscribe TRT. I do hope he has learned his > lesion and never proscribes TRT > > > in this manner again let alone proscribing it at > all. > > > Brett > > > Dr. Barry Gordon > > > > > > > > > > > >>I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in > the week telling him that I felt > > > >>the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate > every 2 weeks was high and spaced > > > >>too far apart. I also sent him son\me > literature from dr. crisler and from > > > >>the american endo board. I also told him > that I felt somewhat short > > > >>tempered on this dose and that's why I > would like him to accomodate my > > > >>concerns and lower the dose. My mistake > was sending him an email and > > > >>leaving a paper trail as most doctors are > paranoid these days. This is > > > >>someof the response he sent me: > > > >> > > > >> I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's > literature and it's obvious that we have > > > >> significantly different philosophies and > views on the treatment of TD. > > > >> That being said, I usually have little > objection to patient's requests to > > > >> try reasonable alternative dosing > regimens. Unfortunately, we have a > > > >> problem. > > > >> In your last email you informed me that > you had significant adverse > > > >> psychiatric effects from the first two > injections of testosterone, > > > >> " paranoia " and " agitation " . This > does not appear to be a dose related > > > >> phenomenon since your symptoms abated > near the time one would expect your > > > >> T levels to be near their highest. > I consulted an attorney, and > > > >> considering the potential seriousness of > your reactions along with > > > >> current > > > >> public and governmental concerns over > " roid rage " it would be > > > >> irresponsible of me to continue > administering or prescribing testosterone > > > >> at this time. Such action on my > part would likely be construed as > > > >> malpractice if not illegal. I > fully understand the difficulty people > > > >> have > > > >> in getting testosterone deficiency > effectively treated. My best > > > >> suggestion would be for you to have > psychiatric evaluation. Given > > > >> psychiatric clearance, and a period of > continuing psychiatric follow-up, > > > >> I'd have no problem administering T > according to an acceptable protocol > > > >> you prefer. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Now I'm not sure what to do? I > definitely think that his name should be > > > >> scrubbed from database as he also took a > blood test last week and brushed > > > >> off the high estrogen levels and his trt > protocol is not the industry > > > >> norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. > My next appointment was scheduled > > > >> for monday and that's right about the > time I'll be crashing from my last > > > >> dose. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 You need a script for Depo Testosterone or Testosterone cypionate in a 10 ml. vial at 200mgs / ml. Some states need a scrip for syringes so get one for 100 BD brand 27g 1ml x 1/2 " lg. needles. Or order it from this link. http://www.amazon.com/BD-Tuberculin-Syringe-27G-100/dp/B002C30F6C/ref=sr_1_fkmr3\ _3?ie=UTF8 & qid=1270672624 & sr=1-3-fkmr3 Also get some HCG Novarel 10,000 IU's if you get this get back to me on how to mix it and keep it. Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 3:49 PM > Phil I just called my primary and > told him my story. He said he will look into it and call me > later. What should I ask him for? What I mean by that is > does he also have to write a prescription for syringes? Can > you give me the doses and names of what I need? > > > > > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the > week > > > telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me > 400 > > > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too > far apart. I > > > also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler > and from > > > the american endo board. I also told him that I > felt > > > somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's > why I would > > > like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the > dose. My > > > mistake was sending him an email and leaving a > paper trail > > > as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > someof the > > > response he sent me: > > > > > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature > and it's > > > obvious that we have significantly different > philosophies > > > and views on the treatment of TD. That being > said, I > > > usually have little objection to patient's > requests to try > > > reasonable alternative dosing regimens. > Unfortunately, > > > we have a problem. > > > > In your last email you informed me that you > had > > > significant adverse psychiatric effects from the > first two > > > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and > > > " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose > related > > > phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the > time one > > > would expect your T levels to be near their > highest. I > > > consulted an attorney, and considering the > potential > > > seriousness of your reactions along with current > public and > > > governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would > be > > > irresponsible of me to continue administering or > prescribing > > > testosterone at this time. Such action on my > part > > > would likely be construed as malpractice if not > > > illegal. I fully understand the difficulty > people have > > > in getting testosterone deficiency effectively > > > treated. My best suggestion would be for you to > have > > > psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric > clearance, > > > and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > I'd have > > > no problem administering T according to an > acceptable > > > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely > think that > > > his name should be scrubbed from database as he > also took a > > > blood test last week and brushed off the high > estrogen > > > levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > norm. Now I > > > need to find a new doctor. My next appointment > was scheduled > > > for monday and that's right about the time I'll > be crashing > > > from my last dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Ok thank you, crossing fingers that I get prescription. I'll let you know. > > > > > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the > > week > > > > telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me > > 400 > > > > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too > > far apart. I > > > > also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler > > and from > > > > the american endo board. I also told him that I > > felt > > > > somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's > > why I would > > > > like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the > > dose. My > > > > mistake was sending him an email and leaving a > > paper trail > > > > as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > > someof the > > > > response he sent me: > > > > > > > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature > > and it's > > > > obvious that we have significantly different > > philosophies > > > > and views on the treatment of TD. That being > > said, I > > > > usually have little objection to patient's > > requests to try > > > > reasonable alternative dosing regimens. > > Unfortunately, > > > > we have a problem. > > > > > In your last email you informed me that you > > had > > > > significant adverse psychiatric effects from the > > first two > > > > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and > > > > " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose > > related > > > > phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the > > time one > > > > would expect your T levels to be near their > > highest. I > > > > consulted an attorney, and considering the > > potential > > > > seriousness of your reactions along with current > > public and > > > > governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would > > be > > > > irresponsible of me to continue administering or > > prescribing > > > > testosterone at this time. Such action on my > > part > > > > would likely be construed as malpractice if not > > > > illegal. I fully understand the difficulty > > people have > > > > in getting testosterone deficiency effectively > > > > treated. My best suggestion would be for you to > > have > > > > psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric > > clearance, > > > > and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > > I'd have > > > > no problem administering T according to an > > acceptable > > > > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely > > think that > > > > his name should be scrubbed from database as he > > also took a > > > > blood test last week and brushed off the high > > estrogen > > > > levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > > norm. Now I > > > > need to find a new doctor. My next appointment > > was scheduled > > > > for monday and that's right about the time I'll > > be crashing > > > > from my last dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Those syringes are ok for the glutes? > > > > > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the > > week > > > > telling him that I felt the dose he was giving me > > 400 > > > > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced too > > far apart. I > > > > also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler > > and from > > > > the american endo board. I also told him that I > > felt > > > > somewhat short tempered on this dose and that's > > why I would > > > > like him to accomodate my concerns and lower the > > dose. My > > > > mistake was sending him an email and leaving a > > paper trail > > > > as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > > someof the > > > > response he sent me: > > > > > > > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature > > and it's > > > > obvious that we have significantly different > > philosophies > > > > and views on the treatment of TD. That being > > said, I > > > > usually have little objection to patient's > > requests to try > > > > reasonable alternative dosing regimens. > > Unfortunately, > > > > we have a problem. > > > > > In your last email you informed me that you > > had > > > > significant adverse psychiatric effects from the > > first two > > > > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " and > > > > " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose > > related > > > > phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the > > time one > > > > would expect your T levels to be near their > > highest. I > > > > consulted an attorney, and considering the > > potential > > > > seriousness of your reactions along with current > > public and > > > > governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would > > be > > > > irresponsible of me to continue administering or > > prescribing > > > > testosterone at this time. Such action on my > > part > > > > would likely be construed as malpractice if not > > > > illegal. I fully understand the difficulty > > people have > > > > in getting testosterone deficiency effectively > > > > treated. My best suggestion would be for you to > > have > > > > psychiatric evaluation. Given psychiatric > > clearance, > > > > and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > > I'd have > > > > no problem administering T according to an > > acceptable > > > > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely > > think that > > > > his name should be scrubbed from database as he > > also took a > > > > blood test last week and brushed off the high > > estrogen > > > > levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > > norm. Now I > > > > need to find a new doctor. My next appointment > > was scheduled > > > > for monday and that's right about the time I'll > > be crashing > > > > from my last dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 No I use them to shoot into my thigh if your doing your back side a 1 " will work if your not to fat back there or a 1.5 " lg. but the gage would be less like 25g. Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon > > Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 4:47 PM > Those syringes are ok for the > glutes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I sent my trt doctor an email > earlier in the > > > week > > > > > telling him that I felt the dose he was > giving me > > > 400 > > > > > cypionate every 2 weeks was high and > spaced too > > > far apart. I > > > > > also sent him son\me literature from > dr. crisler > > > and from > > > > > the american endo board. I also told > him that I > > > felt > > > > > somewhat short tempered on this dose > and that's > > > why I would > > > > > like him to accomodate my concerns and > lower the > > > dose. My > > > > > mistake was sending him an email and > leaving a > > > paper trail > > > > > as most doctors are paranoid these > days. This is > > > someof the > > > > > response he sent me: > > > > > > > > > > > > I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's > literature > > > and it's > > > > > obvious that we have significantly > different > > > philosophies > > > > > and views on the treatment of TD. > That being > > > said, I > > > > > usually have little objection to > patient's > > > requests to try > > > > > reasonable alternative dosing > regimens. > > > Unfortunately, > > > > > we have a problem. > > > > > > In your last email you informed me > that you > > > had > > > > > significant adverse psychiatric effects > from the > > > first two > > > > > injections of testosterone, " paranoia " > and > > > > > " agitation " . This does not appear to > be a dose > > > related > > > > > phenomenon since your symptoms abated > near the > > > time one > > > > > would expect your T levels to be near > their > > > highest. I > > > > > consulted an attorney, and considering > the > > > potential > > > > > seriousness of your reactions along > with current > > > public and > > > > > governmental concerns over " roid rage " > it would > > > be > > > > > irresponsible of me to continue > administering or > > > prescribing > > > > > testosterone at this time. Such > action on my > > > part > > > > > would likely be construed as > malpractice if not > > > > > illegal. I fully understand the > difficulty > > > people have > > > > > in getting testosterone deficiency > effectively > > > > > treated. My best suggestion would be > for you to > > > have > > > > > psychiatric evaluation. Given > psychiatric > > > clearance, > > > > > and a period of continuing psychiatric > follow-up, > > > I'd have > > > > > no problem administering T according to > an > > > acceptable > > > > > protocol you prefer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not sure what to do? I > definitely > > > think that > > > > > his name should be scrubbed from > database as he > > > also took a > > > > > blood test last week and brushed off > the high > > > estrogen > > > > > levels and his trt protocol is not the > industry > > > norm. Now I > > > > > need to find a new doctor. My next > appointment > > > was scheduled > > > > > for monday and that's right about the > time I'll > > > be crashing > > > > > from my last dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Chalk it up as a learning experience and move on. Do not waste time or energy pursing this any further. Its a battle that is not worth fighting and in the end will only make your more stressed out and sicker in the long run. > > You know, another thought is the very fact that he called his lawyer is > evidence in itself that he knows he has done something wrong. IE: in > proscribing this for you in the way that he did. He know this already and > it is why he is all ready consulting his lawyer. You don't need a > psychiatric evaluation you need a doctor that knows how to properly > proscribe TRT. I do hope he has learned his lesion and never proscribes TRT > in this manner again let alone proscribing it at all. > Brett > Dr. Barry Gordon > > > > > >>I sent my trt doctor an email earlier in the week telling him that I felt > >>the dose he was giving me 400 cypionate every 2 weeks was high and spaced > >>too far apart. I also sent him son\me literature from dr. crisler and from > >>the american endo board. I also told him that I felt somewhat short > >>tempered on this dose and that's why I would like him to accomodate my > >>concerns and lower the dose. My mistake was sending him an email and > >>leaving a paper trail as most doctors are paranoid these days. This is > >>someof the response he sent me: > >> > >> I reviewed some of Dr. Crisler's literature and it's obvious that we have > >> significantly different philosophies and views on the treatment of TD. > >> That being said, I usually have little objection to patient's requests to > >> try reasonable alternative dosing regimens. Unfortunately, we have a > >> problem. > >> In your last email you informed me that you had significant adverse > >> psychiatric effects from the first two injections of testosterone, > >> " paranoia " and " agitation " . This does not appear to be a dose related > >> phenomenon since your symptoms abated near the time one would expect your > >> T levels to be near their highest. I consulted an attorney, and > >> considering the potential seriousness of your reactions along with > >> current > >> public and governmental concerns over " roid rage " it would be > >> irresponsible of me to continue administering or prescribing testosterone > >> at this time. Such action on my part would likely be construed as > >> malpractice if not illegal. I fully understand the difficulty people > >> have > >> in getting testosterone deficiency effectively treated. My best > >> suggestion would be for you to have psychiatric evaluation. Given > >> psychiatric clearance, and a period of continuing psychiatric follow-up, > >> I'd have no problem administering T according to an acceptable protocol > >> you prefer. > >> > >> > >> Now I'm not sure what to do? I definitely think that his name should be > >> scrubbed from database as he also took a blood test last week and brushed > >> off the high estrogen levels and his trt protocol is not the industry > >> norm. Now I need to find a new doctor. My next appointment was scheduled > >> for monday and that's right about the time I'll be crashing from my last > >> dose. > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Wise words. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Dr. Barry Gordon Please do not file a formal complaint against him. If you do he will be totally screwed. While it is obvious to all he has little idea what he is doing, at least he is one of the few who is willing to try. Let's hope he learned something from my paper-perhaps he will give a modicum of thought to the pharmacokinetics of testosterone cypionate, etc. If anyone needs a trip before their respective State Medical Board, it is the doctor who refuses TRT because it " causes prostate cancer " . Let's fight our battles where we can do the most good. Will you do that for me, please? Be well! Regards, Crisler, DO Anti-Aging Medicine The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message. We would certainly do the same for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Please do not file a formal complaint against him. If you do he will be totally screwed. While it is obvious to all he has little idea what he is doing, at least he is one of the few who is willing to try. Let's hope he learned something from my paper-perhaps he will give a modicum of thought to the pharmacokinetics of testosterone cypionate, etc. If anyone needs a trip before their respective State Medical Board, it is the doctor who refuses TRT because it " causes prostate cancer " . Let's fight our battles where we can do the most good. Will you do that for me, please? Be well! Regards, Crisler, DO Anti-Aging Medicine The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message. We would certainly do the same for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Yes Dr. Crisler I wasn't planning to. It's frustrating that he has me scrambling now to find a doctor willing to prescribe testosterone before my levels start to drop. > > Please do not file a formal complaint against him. If you do he will be > totally screwed. While it is obvious to all he has little idea what he is > doing, at least he is one of the few who is willing to try. Let's hope he > learned something from my paper-perhaps he will give a modicum of thought to > the pharmacokinetics of testosterone cypionate, etc. > > > > If anyone needs a trip before their respective State Medical Board, it is > the doctor who refuses TRT because it " causes prostate cancer " . Let's fight > our battles where we can do the most good. > > > > Will you do that for me, please? > > > > Be well! > > Regards, > > > Crisler, DO > > Anti-Aging Medicine > > The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by > state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this > document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the > original message. We would certainly do the same for you. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010  My advice is to do what you want. If you don't want to take action, don't.  Personally I think more MDs need to be called on the carpet for total incompetence.  MD almost wrecked my life; for that I will hold a grudge forever!!!!   Fuck em all!  ps. MDs (and I guess DOs too) take care of each other.  From: andrenym007 <no_reply > Subject: Re: Dr. Barry Gordon Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 7:04 PM  Yes Dr. Crisler I wasn't planning to. It's frustrating that he has me scrambling now to find a doctor willing to prescribe testosterone before my levels start to drop. > > Please do not file a formal complaint against him. If you do he will be > totally screwed. While it is obvious to all he has little idea what he is > doing, at least he is one of the few who is willing to try. Let's hope he > learned something from my paper-perhaps he will give a modicum of thought to > the pharmacokinetics of testosterone cypionate, etc. > > > > If anyone needs a trip before their respective State Medical Board, it is > the doctor who refuses TRT because it " causes prostate cancer " . Let's fight > our battles where we can do the most good. > > > > Will you do that for me, please? > > > > Be well! > > Regards, > > > Crisler, DO > > Anti-Aging Medicine > > The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by > state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this > document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the > original message. We would certainly do the same for you. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Interesting post.. Many mds are clueless..whether primary care or specialists... I went to see two endos who were mds and neither dug deep enough to find thay my testerone issue was caused by my severe and daily consumptiom of dairy..in fact one felt I needed a shrinl! Endos in my experience are completely worthless! And they happen to both be mds.. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: Dr. Barry Gordon Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 7:04 PM  Yes Dr. Crisler I wasn't planning to. It's frustrating that he has me scrambling now to find a doctor willing to prescribe testosterone before my levels start to drop. > > Please do not file a formal complaint against him. If you do he will be > totally screwed. While it is obvious to all he has little idea what he is > doing, at least he is one of the few who is willing to try. Let's hope he > learned something from my paper-perhaps he will give a modicum of thought to > the pharmacokinetics of testosterone cypionate, etc. > > > > If anyone needs a trip before their respective State Medical Board, it is > the doctor who refuses TRT because it " causes prostate cancer " . Let's fight > our battles where we can do the most good. > > > > Will you do that for me, please? > > > > Be well! > > Regards, > > > Crisler, DO > > Anti-Aging Medicine > > The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by > state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this > document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the > original message. We would certainly do the same for you. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 Frustration is understandable, especially when one has wasted time, money and pain. But think of it this way: If a doctor is going to have his life destroyed for prescribing testosterone, how many will want to after that? This is a war, not a battle. If you think it's tough being a patient, you should try being a doctor doing this. How would you like to have a job which risks total destruction of your life, each and every day, just for doing what is right? And have spent more than a decade of 16 hour workdays-- without pay, just to get that job? {And Obamacare is going to make it even less likely anyone will prescribe TRT, OR EvEN WANT TO GO THROUGH ALL IT TAKES TO BECOME A DOCTOR!) There is no " Standard of Care " for TRT. No well-accepted guidelines. No university-based training programs. Physicians such as myself get the results we do because we study what our colleagues do, and combine their experience with ours. Definitely, rubbing elbows with the top Thought Leaders in the world, as I have the daily privilege, is invaluable. But even I am a slave to the knowledge I am able to access. And there are training programs out there which teach, for instance, " estrogen is not important in men " . I know of one which just took place in Colorado. And by doctors who claim to be " experts " in TRT medicine. And BTW, dairy consumption is not known as a cause of hypogonadism. Be well! Regards, Crisler, DO Anti-Aging Medicine The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message. We would certainly do the same for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 Big Biceps-You have been an ass on this forum (and others), and to me, many times now. You DO have serious emotional issues. Suggesting I am somehow corrupt for taking the time to paint the big picture tells it all. Man Up, Dude. Your life will get better the day you do. Be well! Regards, Crisler, DO Anti-Aging Medicine The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message. We would certainly do the same for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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