Guest guest Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I went to my endocrinologist in Rochester Mayo clinic today. Every endo I have seen so far says low dose androgel is the way to go for this exact reason that I found on another forum " 2 different compounds. androgel simply supplies test to the system in low dose so you have something while your bodys hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - recovers, it doesnt actually speed recovery. Clomid blocks the ER fooling the body into thinking test production is low, which after cycle it is low so in a sense it is a bit redundant, works wonders for some, not so great for others. " Also the pharmasist at Mayo said she had cases where young men went on and were off within a few months. I'm starting at a low dose of two pumps per day 1% androgel. Some questions I have are: 1. Do I have to worry about estrogen conversion at such a low dose? 2. How long does it take to kick in? 3. I'll be on it for 6 months, and maybe off earlier if I show improvement. Has anyone been taken off? 4. Where should I apply it, forearms and if so one pump on one arm, one on the other. For those of you who don't know, I am also 16 if this makes a difference. I was diagnosed with hypothalamic dysfunction from a wrestling induced eating disorder and trying to correct the hypothalamic problem. My endo also said in the past I have been exposed to a high amount of testosterone which is good because it means during puberty I had high testosterone, normal for a teenage boy. Input would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I will respond to part of this post. The low dose will probably just shut down your body's production and make you feel worse. Once you are on, you either have to stay on forever or do some restart treatment. Just giving a low dose of Test doesn't start you back up but actually makes you shut down further. I wouldn't worry about E2 with this low a dose. At 16 I would find out why you are low(FSH, LH, SHBG, E2, Prolactin) and go from there. I would rule out a pituitary tumor and then try a clomid stimulation test. If you respond, then try a restart protocol. How is your diet? Have you had any high stress in your life? ________________________________ From: Matt <mattobrien71@...> Sent: Fri, October 30, 2009 7:00:44 PM Subject: Young male, Androgel. I went to my endocrinologist in Rochester Mayo clinic today. Every endo I have seen so far says low dose androgel is the way to go for this exact reason that I found on another forum " 2 different compounds. androgel simply supplies test to the system in low dose so you have something while your bodys hpta - hypothalamic- pituitary- testicular axis - recovers, it doesnt actually speed recovery. Clomid blocks the ER fooling the body into thinking test production is low, which after cycle it is low so in a sense it is a bit redundant, works wonders for some, not so great for others. " Also the pharmasist at Mayo said she had cases where young men went on and were off within a few months. I'm starting at a low dose of two pumps per day 1% androgel. Some questions I have are: 1. Do I have to worry about estrogen conversion at such a low dose? 2. How long does it take to kick in? 3. I'll be on it for 6 months, and maybe off earlier if I show improvement. Has anyone been taken off? 4. Where should I apply it, forearms and if so one pump on one arm, one on the other. For those of you who don't know, I am also 16 if this makes a difference. I was diagnosed with hypothalamic dysfunction from a wrestling induced eating disorder and trying to correct the hypothalamic problem. My endo also said in the past I have been exposed to a high amount of testosterone which is good because it means during puberty I had high testosterone, normal for a teenage boy. Input would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I went from a healthy 130 wrestling weight at state, and dropped to an underweight 115 lbs along with excessive weight lifting that gave me hypothalmic dysfunction. The testosterone is temporary to try and get my body out of starvation mode. ________________________________ From: Thornton <brianee93@...> Sent: Fri, October 30, 2009 7:48:55 PM Subject: Re: Young male, Androgel. I will respond to part of this post. The low dose will probably just shut down your body's production and make you feel worse. Once you are on, you either have to stay on forever or do some restart treatment. Just giving a low dose of Test doesn't start you back up but actually makes you shut down further. I wouldn't worry about E2 with this low a dose. At 16 I would find out why you are low(FSH, LH, SHBG, E2, Prolactin) and go from there. I would rule out a pituitary tumor and then try a clomid stimulation test. If you respond, then try a restart protocol. How is your diet? Have you had any high stress in your life? ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Matt <mattobrien71> Sent: Fri, October 30, 2009 7:00:44 PM Subject: Young male, Androgel. I went to my endocrinologist in Rochester Mayo clinic today. Every endo I have seen so far says low dose androgel is the way to go for this exact reason that I found on another forum " 2 different compounds. androgel simply supplies test to the system in low dose so you have something while your bodys hpta - hypothalamic- pituitary- testicular axis - recovers, it doesnt actually speed recovery. Clomid blocks the ER fooling the body into thinking test production is low, which after cycle it is low so in a sense it is a bit redundant, works wonders for some, not so great for others. " Also the pharmasist at Mayo said she had cases where young men went on and were off within a few months. I'm starting at a low dose of two pumps per day 1% androgel. Some questions I have are: 1. Do I have to worry about estrogen conversion at such a low dose? 2. How long does it take to kick in? 3. I'll be on it for 6 months, and maybe off earlier if I show improvement. Has anyone been taken off? 4. Where should I apply it, forearms and if so one pump on one arm, one on the other. For those of you who don't know, I am also 16 if this makes a difference. I was diagnosed with hypothalamic dysfunction from a wrestling induced eating disorder and trying to correct the hypothalamic problem. My endo also said in the past I have been exposed to a high amount of testosterone which is good because it means during puberty I had high testosterone, normal for a teenage boy. Input would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 I don't agree with this but I am not a Dr. I feel if you do this you need to cycle off it sooner then 6 months to see if your hpta can kick in. Like I have been saying for some time now adding testosterone in any amout will shut down the hpta so I don't understand how this is going to work. So do like the bodybuilders do and cycle off this gel Hardasnails would know what time frame you would need to do this. Q 1. no your estrogen levels should not go up on this low dose. Q 2. You should feel something in about a week or two. Q 3. As I have said many times no I don't know of any men on Testosterone that stopped and got there body to make Testosterone at a normal level. But then they did not have low Testosterone from doing what you did. Q 4. Put the gel on your upper arms and shoulders spread it around but don't rub it in let it dry from wet. I am not sure but 2 pumps is 2.5 grams and I know a few men that started on this dose and they did not feel anything. But in your case I don't think your Dr. is trying to get your levels up he is trying to start your hpta. Here is a cut and paste about putting on the gel and the dose. ================================ General Dosing The recommended starting dose of AndroGel is 5 g once daily (preferably in the morning) to clean, dry, intact skin of the shoulders and upper arms and/or abdomen (area of application should be limited to the area that will be covered by the patient's short sleeve t-shirt). AndroGel must not be applied to the genitals. AndroGel is supplied as either a pump or in individual packets. After applying the gel, the application site should be allowed to dry for a few minutes prior to dressing. Avoid fire, flames or smoking until the gel has dried since alcohol based products, including AndroGel, are flammable. Hands should be washed with soap and water after AndroGel has been applied [see WARNINGS AND PRECAUTIONS]. Administration Multi-Dose Pump Patients should be instructed to prime the pump before using it for the first time by fully depressing the pump mechanism (actuation) 3 times and discard this portion of the product to assure precise dose delivery. After the priming procedure, patients should completely depress the pump one time (actuation) for every 1.25 g (AndroGel Pump) of product required to achieve the daily prescribed dosage. The product may be delivered directly into the palm of the hand and then applied to the desired application sites, either one pump actuation at a time or upon completion of all pump actuations required for the daily dose. Alternatively, the product can be applied directly to the application sites. Application directly to the sites may prevent loss of product that may occur during transfer from the palm of the hand onto the application sites. Table 1 has specific dosing guidelines for adult males when the 75 g AndroGel Pump is used. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Matt <mattobrien71@...> > Subject: Young male, Androgel. > > Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 8:00 PM > I went to my endocrinologist in > Rochester Mayo clinic today. Every endo I have seen > so far says low dose androgel is the way to go for this > exact reason that I found on > another forum " 2 different compounds. androgel simply > supplies test to the system in > low dose so you have something while your bodys hpta - > hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular > axis - recovers, it doesnt actually speed recovery. Clomid > blocks the ER fooling the body > into thinking test production is low, which after cycle it > is low so in a sense it is a bit redundant, > works wonders for some, not so great for others. " > Also the pharmasist at Mayo said she had cases where young > men went on and were off within a few months. > I'm starting at a low dose of two pumps per day 1% > androgel. > Some questions I have are: > 1. Do I have to worry about estrogen conversion at such a > low dose? > > 2. How long does it take to kick in? > > 3. I'll be on it for 6 months, and maybe off earlier if I > show improvement. > Has anyone been taken off? > 4. Where should I apply it, forearms and if so one pump on > one arm, one on the other. > > For those of you who don't know, I am also 16 if this makes > a difference. > I was diagnosed with hypothalamic dysfunction from a > wrestling induced eating disorder > and trying to correct the hypothalamic problem. > > My endo also said in the past I have been exposed to a high > amount of testosterone which is good because it means during > puberty I had high testosterone, normal for a teenage boy. > Input would be nice. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Here's how she said it to me " Your hypothalamus is confused right now, it's paused. All it takes is time and it will repair itself. For now we can give you Testosterone to help take the edge off while the hypothalamus recovers. " The diet did this, good diet can repair this I guess. ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Sat, October 31, 2009 9:03:42 AM Subject: Re: Young male, Androgel. I don't agree with this but I am not a Dr. I feel if you do this you need to cycle off it sooner then 6 months to see if your hpta can kick in. Like I have been saying for some time now adding testosterone in any amout will shut down the hpta so I don't understand how this is going to work. So do like the bodybuilders do and cycle off this gel Hardasnails would know what time frame you would need to do this. Q 1. no your estrogen levels should not go up on this low dose. Q 2. You should feel something in about a week or two. Q 3. As I have said many times no I don't know of any men on Testosterone that stopped and got there body to make Testosterone at a normal level. But then they did not have low Testosterone from doing what you did. Q 4. Put the gel on your upper arms and shoulders spread it around but don't rub it in let it dry from wet. I am not sure but 2 pumps is 2.5 grams and I know a few men that started on this dose and they did not feel anything. But in your case I don't think your Dr. is trying to get your levels up he is trying to start your hpta. Here is a cut and paste about putting on the gel and the dose. ============ ========= ========= == General Dosing The recommended starting dose of AndroGel is 5 g once daily (preferably in the morning) to clean, dry, intact skin of the shoulders and upper arms and/or abdomen (area of application should be limited to the area that will be covered by the patient's short sleeve t-shirt). AndroGel must not be applied to the genitals. AndroGel is supplied as either a pump or in individual packets. After applying the gel, the application site should be allowed to dry for a few minutes prior to dressing. Avoid fire, flames or smoking until the gel has dried since alcohol based products, including AndroGel, are flammable. Hands should be washed with soap and water after AndroGel has been applied [see WARNINGS AND PRECAUTIONS] . Administration Multi-Dose Pump Patients should be instructed to prime the pump before using it for the first time by fully depressing the pump mechanism (actuation) 3 times and discard this portion of the product to assure precise dose delivery. After the priming procedure, patients should completely depress the pump one time (actuation) for every 1.25 g (AndroGel Pump) of product required to achieve the daily prescribed dosage. The product may be delivered directly into the palm of the hand and then applied to the desired application sites, either one pump actuation at a time or upon completion of all pump actuations required for the daily dose. Alternatively, the product can be applied directly to the application sites. Application directly to the sites may prevent loss of product that may occur during transfer from the palm of the hand onto the application sites. Table 1 has specific dosing guidelines for adult males when the 75 g AndroGel Pump is used. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > Subject: Young male, Androgel. > > Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 8:00 PM > I went to my endocrinologist in > Rochester Mayo clinic today. Every endo I have seen > so far says low dose androgel is the way to go for this > exact reason that I found on > another forum " 2 different compounds. androgel simply > supplies test to the system in > low dose so you have something while your bodys hpta - > hypothalamic- pituitary- testicular > axis - recovers, it doesnt actually speed recovery. Clomid > blocks the ER fooling the body > into thinking test production is low, which after cycle it > is low so in a sense it is a bit redundant, > works wonders for some, not so great for others. " > Also the pharmasist at Mayo said she had cases where young > men went on and were off within a few months. > I'm starting at a low dose of two pumps per day 1% > androgel. > Some questions I have are: > 1. Do I have to worry about estrogen conversion at such a > low dose? > > 2. How long does it take to kick in? > > 3. I'll be on it for 6 months, and maybe off earlier if I > show improvement. > Has anyone been taken off? > 4. Where should I apply it, forearms and if so one pump on > one arm, one on the other. > > For those of you who don't know, I am also 16 if this makes > a difference. > I was diagnosed with hypothalamic dysfunction from a > wrestling induced eating disorder > and trying to correct the hypothalamic problem. > > My endo also said in the past I have been exposed to a high > amount of testosterone which is good because it means during > puberty I had high testosterone, normal for a teenage boy. > Input would be nice. > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Wait it out Matt, I know its hard, but wait. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Young male, Androgel. > > Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 8:00 PM > I went to my endocrinologist in > Rochester Mayo clinic today. Every endo I have seen > so far says low dose androgel is the way to go for this > exact reason that I found on > another forum " 2 different compounds. androgel simply > supplies test to the system in > low dose so you have something while your bodys hpta - > hypothalamic- pituitary- testicular > axis - recovers, it doesnt actually speed recovery. Clomid > blocks the ER fooling the body > into thinking test production is low, which after cycle it > is low so in a sense it is a bit redundant, > works wonders for some, not so great for others. " > Also the pharmasist at Mayo said she had cases where young > men went on and were off within a few months. > I'm starting at a low dose of two pumps per day 1% > androgel. > Some questions I have are: > 1. Do I have to worry about estrogen conversion at such a > low dose? > > 2. How long does it take to kick in? > > 3. I'll be on it for 6 months, and maybe off earlier if I > show improvement. > Has anyone been taken off? > 4. Where should I apply it, forearms and if so one pump on > one arm, one on the other. > > For those of you who don't know, I am also 16 if this makes > a difference. > I was diagnosed with hypothalamic dysfunction from a > wrestling induced eating disorder > and trying to correct the hypothalamic problem. > > My endo also said in the past I have been exposed to a high > amount of testosterone which is good because it means during > puberty I had high testosterone, normal for a teenage boy. > Input would be nice. > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Yes this is what Hardasnails and I told you from day one but going on testosterone is going to shut you down more. If you what to add testosterone to your low levels just do HCG this is not adding testosteone to your body this is telling your testis to make it. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > Subject: Young male, Androgel. > > > > Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 8:00 PM > > I went to my endocrinologist in > > Rochester Mayo clinic today. Every endo I have seen > > so far says low dose androgel is the way to go for > this > > exact reason that I found on > > another forum " 2 different compounds. androgel simply > > supplies test to the system in > > low dose so you have something while your bodys hpta > - > > hypothalamic- pituitary- testicular > > axis - recovers, it doesnt actually speed recovery. > Clomid > > blocks the ER fooling the body > > into thinking test production is low, which after > cycle it > > is low so in a sense it is a bit redundant, > > works wonders for some, not so great for others. " > > Also the pharmasist at Mayo said she had cases where > young > > men went on and were off within a few months. > > I'm starting at a low dose of two pumps per day 1% > > androgel. > > Some questions I have are: > > 1. Do I have to worry about estrogen conversion at > such a > > low dose? > > > > 2. How long does it take to kick in? > > > > 3. I'll be on it for 6 months, and maybe off earlier > if I > > show improvement. > > Has anyone been taken off? > > 4. Where should I apply it, forearms and if so one > pump on > > one arm, one on the other. > > > > For those of you who don't know, I am also 16 if this > makes > > a difference. > > I was diagnosed with hypothalamic dysfunction from a > > wrestling induced eating disorder > > and trying to correct the hypothalamic problem. > > > > My endo also said in the past I have been exposed to a > high > > amount of testosterone which is good because it means > during > > puberty I had high testosterone, normal for a teenage > boy. > > Input would be nice. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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