Doctors in NJ

November 3, 2009

We look at the person as a whole and take things in layers. You can not attack

every thing at once its just going to end up in failure of resolution of the

person main issue. Every one case is individualized not a cutter methods and we

also make sure other hormones are not affect when another one is altered.

Systematic meand done in layers. It depends on how complex the case is.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My dad isn't to happy with his doctor. Does anyone know of any

good

> > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ, or southern NJ, near the Toms river area?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

November 3, 2009

I have been to 4 endos in the past and they treated based upon the numbers and

not symptoms, knew nothing about adrenals, gut, liver, thyroid and proper sex

hormone modifcation. It was not untill I came to the DR O with my research/

notes that he took the time to sit and piece my puzzle together. We are now

recieving people that Dr's are puzzled with. There are some good endos but

majority of people we deal with have been down that root before. Some endos end

up making people worse then what they are but that is not their fought rather

the medical association and what they are taught in school.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My dad isn't to happy with his doctor.

> > > > > Does anyone know of any good

> > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ, or southern NJ, near the

> > > > > Toms river area?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > > >

November 3, 2009

You guys I don't understand why when a Dr. comes to this site he gets put on the

mat but some of you. One of the big problems we have is finding a Good Dr. And

when some come here they get drilled and stop coming Dr. was here one of

the best Dr.'s for men's hormones there is and he sent me an Email saying nice

site but to many men being disrespectful. Do we need to keep doing this to

People or Dr.'s that come here. I don't think so.

Do you guys call a Dr. before you see him and drill him like this this is when

you need to do this not here.

Thanks for the kind words Jim.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jim <virtuosa150@...>

> Subject: Re: Doctors in NJ

>

> Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 9:26 PM

> Dr. Overbeck and HAN are VERY

> thorough, interpret the data and act accordingly. They've

> done right by me so far. I've been to enough bad doctors,

> they're not of that sort.

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My dad isn't to happy with

> his doctor.

> > > > Does anyone know of any good

> > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ, or

> southern NJ, near the

> > > > Toms river area?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > >

November 3, 2009

normally this is the response from a person that has been to many Dr's with out

good success. When people go into any dr's office, the dr has already one

strike against them with the person having a chip on their shoulder before they

even go. When people can leave with a sense of direction or specific game plan

as well as a sense of hope then we accomplished our job.

just because a Dr graduates from yale does not mean he going to be some

spectacular Dr. I have been to dr's from both harvard and yale that thought

estrodial was only a female hormone. Come on give me a break. Personal trainers

come up telling me at the gym that I should not be doing it that way. I nicely

ask them please explain me why. I then rebuttal and say ok now let me explain

why. Even though they may have all the cerifications and qualification does not

necessary mean they know it all. One can learn all the theory and read all the

books they want. Applying it is a whole other factors.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My dad isn't to happy with his doctor. Does anyone know of any

good

> > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ, or southern NJ, near the Toms river area?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

November 3, 2009

The thing about all this is Hardasnails has all the problems we talk about here

when I first met him he was being treated by the wrong kinds of Dr.'s much like

my self. So when you talk to him your talking to someone that have been there

done that. Lighten up he is here because I asked him to help me out here.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: Doctors in NJ

>

> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 8:08 AM

> I have been to 4 endos in the past

> and they treated based upon the numbers and not symptoms,

> knew nothing about adrenals, gut, liver, thyroid and proper

> sex hormone modifcation. It was not untill I came to

> the DR O with my research/ notes that he took the time to

> sit and piece my puzzle together. We are now recieving

> people that Dr's are puzzled with. There are some good endos

> but majority of people we deal with have been down that root

> before. Some endos end up making people worse then

> what they are but that is not their fought rather the

> medical association and what they are taught in school.

>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My dad isn't to

> happy with his doctor.

> > > > > > Does anyone know of any good

> > > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ,

> or southern NJ, near the

> > > > > > Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------

> ------

> > > > > >

November 3, 2009

Hard it looks to me like your getting nailed by guys here that are mad at a Dr.

and taking it out on you. This happens every time a Dr. comes here I would not

waste my time with them posts your here to help people not get put on the mat.

I apologize for this happening to you.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: Doctors in NJ

>

> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 9:54 AM

> normally this is the response from a

> person that has been to many Dr's with out good

> success. When people go into any dr's office, the dr

> has already one strike against them with the person having a

> chip on their shoulder before they even go. When

> people can leave with a sense of direction or specific game

> plan as well as a sense of hope then we accomplished our

> job.

>

> just because a Dr graduates from yale does not mean he

> going to be some spectacular Dr. I have been to dr's

> from both harvard and yale that thought estrodial was only a

> female hormone. Come on give me a break. Personal

> trainers come up telling me at the gym that I should not be

> doing it that way. I nicely ask them please explain me

> why. I then rebuttal and say ok now let me explain

> why. Even though they may have all the cerifications

> and qualification does not necessary mean they know it

> all. One can learn all the theory and read all the

> books they want. Applying it is a whole other

> factors.

>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My dad isn't to

> happy with his doctor. Does anyone know of any

> good

> > > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ,

> or southern NJ, near the Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

November 3, 2009

I'm used to it..no big deal.health practioners are always under attack

I have several people i should have listened

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My dad isn't to

> > happy with his doctor. Does anyone know of any

> > good

> > > > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ,

> > or southern NJ, near the Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

November 3, 2009

Ok I know you let it roll off your back but still I asked you here to help and

most everyone here that is new can't find a good Dr.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: Doctors in NJ

>

> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 11:07 AM

> I'm used to it..no big deal.health

> practioners are always under attack

> I have several people i should have listened

>

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My dad

> isn't to

> > > happy with his doctor. Does anyone know of any

> > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > Dr's in

> central NJ,

> > > or southern NJ, near the Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

November 3, 2009

I have spend over $50,000 in last years with dr's and treatments/supplements

from mercury poisoining, thyroid, adrenals, testerone, gut issues, liver issues,

infections, you name I have been thorugh it one way or another. I was up to 80%

back to norm but FDA yanked armour and set me back 8 months because of it. I

just got erfa on the way so I will be back on track after 8 months. It is a

time consuming slow changes and then measure the response.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My dad isn't to

> > happy with his doctor.

> > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good

> > > > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ,

> > or southern NJ, near the

> > > > > > > Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > ------

> > > > > > >

November 3, 2009

Great I am sill waiting for my approval of GH so I can get started on this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: Doctors in NJ

>

> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 11:16 AM

> I have spend over $50,000 in last

> years with dr's and treatments/supplements from mercury

> poisoining, thyroid, adrenals, testerone, gut issues, liver

> issues, infections, you name I have been thorugh it one way

> or another. I was up to 80% back to norm but FDA yanked

> armour and set me back 8 months because of it. I just got

> erfa on the way so I will be back on track after 8

> months. It is a time consuming slow changes and then

> measure the response.

>

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My dad

> isn't to

> > > happy with his doctor.

> > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any

> good

> > > > > > > > > > > Dr's in

> central NJ,

> > > or southern NJ, near the

> > > > > > > > Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ------------ ---------

> ---------

> > > ------

> > > > > > > >

November 3, 2009

Phil,

I certainly did not come on here to offend anybody.

I just thought the gentleman asked some reasonable questions.

I am personally not impressed by where someone got their degree.

That said, asking where and what you studied does not seem unreasonable, or

offensive to me.

In my short time here I have been impressed by the knowledge and caring attitude

of those who contribute.

Keep up the good work.

________________________________

From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 10:08:27 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Doctors in NJ

Hard it looks to me like your getting nailed by guys here that are mad at a Dr.

and taking it out on you. This happens every time a Dr. comes here I would not

waste my time with them posts your here to help people not get put on the mat.

I apologize for this happening to you.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@ comcast.net>

> Subject: Re: Doctors in NJ

>

> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 9:54 AM

> normally this is the response from a

> person that has been to many Dr's with out good

> success. When people go into any dr's office, the dr

> has already one strike against them with the person having a

> chip on their shoulder before they even go. When

> people can leave with a sense of direction or specific game

> plan as well as a sense of hope then we accomplished our

> job.

>

> just because a Dr graduates from yale does not mean he

> going to be some spectacular Dr. I have been to dr's

> from both harvard and yale that thought estrodial was only a

> female hormone. Come on give me a break. Personal

> trainers come up telling me at the gym that I should not be

> doing it that way. I nicely ask them please explain me

> why. I then rebuttal and say ok now let me explain

> why. Even though they may have all the cerifications

> and qualification does not necessary mean they know it

> all. One can learn all the theory and read all the

> books they want. Applying it is a whole other

> factors.

>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My dad isn't to

> happy with his doctor. Does anyone know of any

> good

> > > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ,

> or southern NJ, near the Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

November 3, 2009

Steve not to worry it's where it was going that had me concerned. I have seen

this before. It happens all over the web at forums. And at times get out of

hand.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@

> comcast.net>

> > Subject: Re: Doctors in NJ

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 9:54 AM

> > normally this is the response from a

> > person that has been to many Dr's with out good

> > success. When people go into any dr's office,

> the dr

> > has already one strike against them with the person

> having a

> > chip on their shoulder before they even go.

> When

> > people can leave with a sense of direction or specific

> game

> > plan as well as a sense of hope then we accomplished

> our

> > job.

> >

> > just because a Dr graduates from yale does not mean

> he

> > going to be some spectacular Dr. I have been to

> dr's

> > from both harvard and yale that thought estrodial was

> only a

> > female hormone. Come on give me a break.

> Personal

> > trainers come up telling me at the gym that I should

> not be

> > doing it that way. I nicely ask them please

> explain me

> > why. I then rebuttal and say ok now let me explain

> > why. Even though they may have all the

> cerifications

> > and qualification does not necessary mean they know

> it

> > all. One can learn all the theory and read all

> the

> > books they want. Applying it is a whole other

> > factors.

> >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My dad isn't

> to

> > happy with his doctor. Does anyone know of any

> > good

> > > > > > > > > > Dr's in

> central NJ,

> > or southern NJ, near the Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> >

November 3, 2009

No-one is being disrespectful. A few of us are simply questioning the

qualifications and experience of someone who claims to be a doctor, but who has

given bad advice in the past. It makes no difference whether it is a forum or

the outside world: one should always make sure that one is dealing with a bona

fide doctor. Disrespect doesn't enter into it at all; no offence was meant and

hopefully none was taken.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My dad isn't to happy with

> > his doctor.

> > > > > Does anyone know of any good

> > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ, or

> > southern NJ, near the

> > > > > Toms river area?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > > >

November 3, 2009

With regard to my own posts I have to say this: I am not mad at any particular

doctor and I am certainly not taking it out on 'Hard'. No-one is trying to put

him 'on the mat'. The fact is that he gave out some incorrect advice, which rang

alarm bells in my mind, and possibly in the mind of a few others. This does not

mean that he is not a proficient health practitioner - even if he is not an MD;

after all, qualifications are not everything. Nevertheless, you cannot blame us

for questioning. After all, would you not question a doctor whom you did not

know, and who has given advice that is less than proficient? I think you would,

as would most people.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My dad isn't to

> > happy with his doctor. Does anyone know of any

> > good

> > > > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ,

> > or southern NJ, near the Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

November 3, 2009

If you are referring to the fact that I did not use the word " may " or

" potentially " in one particular post and also many other people mentioned the

same thing as the probably cause to the young men's issue. His lifestyle, and

starving himself were greater then 90% probable for the reason he is suffering

now. He knocked himself out of balance how or what that remains to be seen.

Once he indentifies what he is deficient in then corrects it then the body has a

greater chance of recovery.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My dad isn't to

> > > happy with his doctor. Does anyone know of any

> > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ,

> > > or southern NJ, near the Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

November 3, 2009

Goto other forums and deaf, dumb, and blind are giving the advice. LOL

IT's a joke. I do not even goto some of the forums any more because people are

dangerous and I do not want to be associate that. Pmgamer has known me for over

5 years and also communicate on the phone once a week or so. The information is

I present is base on personal experience as well as 2 years of clincal cases

dealing with some of the most complicated cases which Dr Shippen and other top

HRT were clueless on. Every one is different that comes through the door and you

never know what you will run into. Cortisol antibodies, androgen receptor

insensitivity, thyroid resistance are just some of the odd ball cases we have

come in contact with.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My dad isn't to happy with

> > > his doctor.

> > > > > > Does anyone know of any good

> > > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ, or

> > > southern NJ, near the

> > > > > > Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > > > >

November 3, 2009

I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say hans is a valuable asset to our health,

but I really havn't got any real advice in terms of going into depth with it.

I've been told I'm missing something, what is it though.

________________________________

From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 4:34:00 PM

Subject: Re: Doctors in NJ

If you are referring to the fact that I did not use the word " may " or

" potentially " in one particular post and also many other people mentioned the

same thing as the probably cause to the young men's issue. His lifestyle, and

starving himself were greater then 90% probable for the reason he is suffering

now. He knocked himself out of balance how or what that remains to be seen. Once

he indentifies what he is deficient in then corrects it then the body has a

greater chance of recovery.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My dad isn't to

> > > happy with his doctor. Does anyone know of any

> > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ,

> > > or southern NJ, near the Toms river area?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > >

November 3, 2009

HANS, gives out more free suggestions than anyone I have ever seen. Most doctors

wouldn't know what he is talking about and charge you for the subpar treatment.

He knows what he is talking about.

________________________________

From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 8:31:21 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Doctors in NJ

You guys I don't understand why when a Dr. comes to this site he gets put on the

mat but some of you. One of the big problems we have is finding a Good Dr. And

when some come here they get drilled and stop coming Dr. was here one of

the best Dr.'s for men's hormones there is and he sent me an Email saying nice

site but to many men being disrespectful. Do we need to keep doing this to

People or Dr.'s that come here. I don't think so.

Do you guys call a Dr. before you see him and drill him like this this is when

you need to do this not here.

Thanks for the kind words Jim.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jim <virtuosa150>

> Subject: Re: Doctors in NJ

>

> Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 9:26 PM

> Dr. Overbeck and HAN are VERY

> thorough, interpret the data and act accordingly. They've

> done right by me so far. I've been to enough bad doctors,

> they're not of that sort.

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My dad isn't to happy with

> his doctor.

> > > > Does anyone know of any good

> > > > > > > Dr's in central NJ, or

> southern NJ, near the

> > > > Toms river area?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > >

November 3, 2009

THIS is an internet forum to exchange information about hypogonadism and

testosterone replacement therapy. Although not MDs I trust HANS and PHIL better

than I trust my MD on this topic and related topics. These people know a

LOT!!!!!

FWIW, I do have a ph.d. in biology and have read extensively in the area

(primary literature) of hypogpnadism but I mostly know what I know about this

topic from reading posts from Phil and HANS.

No one is selling anything, prescribing you anything or forcing anything on

anyone. Enjoy the forum, read and learn; great forum because there isn't any

politics or religion (unlike other forums which I left).

>

> No-one is being disrespectful. A few of us are simply questioning the

qualifications and experience of someone who claims to be a doctor, but who has

given bad advice in the past. It makes no difference whether it is a forum or

the outside world: one should always make sure that one is dealing with a bona

fide doctor. Disrespect doesn't enter into it at all; no offence was meant and

hopefully none was taken.

=

November 3, 2009

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:57:32 -0000, you wrote:

>No-one is being disrespectful. A few of us are simply questioning the

qualifications and experience of someone who claims to be a doctor, but who has

given bad advice in the past. It makes no difference whether it is a forum or

the outside world: one should always make sure that one is dealing with a bona

fide doctor. Disrespect doesn't enter into it at all; no offence was meant and

hopefully none was taken.

I gotta say I respect Chrisler's therapy, but he came in here with a

HUGE chip on his shoulder. Politely pointing out a source that

differed with his statement on the half life of arimidex led to major

roasting. He's got as much ego or more as many of the endos we

complain about. He's got the Dr god complex like the rest, he just

knows more about this stuff than the others.

Seems to me he's got a bit of that weight lifters steroid rage thing

going, IMHO. He had a hair trigger. And could not be polite about it.

I was sad to see it. His recommended therapy is probably the best

thing out there.

November 3, 2009

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:02:44 -0000, you wrote:

>With regard to my own posts I have to say this: I am not mad at any particular

doctor and I am certainly not taking it out on 'Hard'. No-one is trying to put

him 'on the mat'. The fact is that he gave out some incorrect advice, which rang

alarm bells in my mind, and possibly in the mind of a few others. This does not

mean that he is not a proficient health practitioner - even if he is not an MD;

after all, qualifications are not everything. Nevertheless, you cannot blame us

for questioning. After all, would you not question a doctor whom you did not

know, and who has given advice that is less than proficient? I think you would,

as would most people.

Virtually everyone here has their own ideas and own experience. and NO

ONE gets it right all the time. I've seen as much nonsense and BS

here as anywhere. But there's lots of good stuff here and good advice.

The trick is for people to question, learn and use your own judgment.

And as said before it's important that posters differentiate between

what's factual and what's opinion, theory or belief.

I have been a little concerned of late that the forum is sounding more

like a diagnostic call center and that a lot of what's transpiring

here is beginning to look like the practice of medicine rather than

providing information and resources - because people are jumping to

conclusions on partial info and inferring and guessing a lot and

speaking with too much certainty.

November 3, 2009

good advice!!!!!! Testosterone replacement therapy is an imperfect science at

this point. Throw in thyroid or other endocrine issues and you have a

multivariate problem very difficult/impossible to understand!!!

This is an informational forum ONLY!!!

Re: Re: Doctors in NJ