Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 Hopefully they will come up with something soon. My daughter started Neruontin a few mths ago and it doesn't help. She has been on almost every kind of anti-inflammatory and nothing helps. She does swim 3 times per week and really enjoys it. The only problem, her knees hurt all the time. We bought knee sleeves to help stablize the knee and hopefully that will help a little bit. She is on a swim team and has to get out of the pool without using the ladder. I thought it would at least help cushion the knees. If they are not swollen before practice, they are after. She is the only one I know who can sleep with ice on her knees! This really is about her only exercise out of gym class. She doesn't ride bike even in the nice weather. Balance is a bit of a problem and she didn't like the stationery bike. Has anything other than anti-inflammatory's and Neurontin helped any one else? liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 Liz, Neurontin helped me a lot. however it gave me insomnia BIG TIME Judi ----- Original Message ----- From: <gdamds@...> < > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > Hopefully they will come up with something soon. My daughter started > Neruontin a few mths ago and it doesn't help. She has been on almost every > kind of anti-inflammatory and nothing helps. She does swim 3 times per week > and really enjoys it. The only problem, her knees hurt all the time. We > bought knee sleeves to help stablize the knee and hopefully that will help a > little bit. She is on a swim team and has to get out of the pool without > using the ladder. I thought it would at least help cushion the knees. If > they are not swollen before practice, they are after. She is the only one I > know who can sleep with ice on her knees! This really is about her only > exercise out of gym class. She doesn't ride bike even in the nice weather. > Balance is a bit of a problem and she didn't like the stationery bike. > Has anything other than anti-inflammatory's and Neurontin helped any one else? > liz > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 In a message dated 2/28/2001 12:39:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, liliwigg@... writes: << I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT issue, but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just about gone. ~ G >> Gretchen Just thought I would post a little about my " Pain in the Butt " LOL Am taking some PT, therapist is using ultra sound treatment on my thigh where I've had such extreme pain for the past year. Have tried celebrex twice last year, no help. Went on Vioxx middle of Jan. to see if it helped. Don't know if it's a combination of Vioxx and ultra sound treatment, but I feel that it's a little better. Therapist told me that if it's inflammation, the ultra sound is designed to help get rid of it. She said it is more than likely caused by the abnormal gait and the extra pressure on the upper thigh. So it is caused by CMT. She has me doing some stretching exercises, has told me definitely there would be no weight bearing exercises. I told her I couldn't do them anyway, even if she asked me too. Also, group, for those of you who got worse after doing exercises, could you please let me know what kind of exercises you were doing. I don't even want to take a chance. My CMT has worsened in the past year, and I wasn't doing anything different. If any of you that have experienced this advise me on what not to do, believe me I will listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 In a message dated 2/28/2001 6:25:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, lls@... writes: << I have never seen a physician that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not for medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a person with the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical field >> I read somewhere that we should always talk to our pharmacists about medicine, and not necessarily our doctors, since they don't really know that much about medicine. [pills] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 Gretchen & group Thanks to all who responded. I know everyone does not progress the same, but I do not want to take any chances of doing too much exercise. I will stop if I feel my muscles hurting too much. I have never been able to do a lot of exercise, I'm still walking without assistance if I don't try to do too much walking. Mall walking is out without my hubby. Walmart , I must have a shopping cart to hold to. Gretchen, I'm not familiar with TENS. I've seen some posts about it. The ultra sound is a gentle heat and massage. She puts gel on my thigh and massages it with a hand held thingy that is attached to a machine. She does this for about 10 minutes, 3 days a week. I have 5 more sessions. She told me that people with gait problems often have problems like I'm having. Don't know for sure, they are treating it as bursitis. Even though I've had 2 shots in that area since June 99, they did absolutely no good. I'm really hopeful this time. The exercises she has me doing are hamstring stretch, butt squeezes, pillow or ball between the knee and squeeze, lift knee to chest [laying down of course] I'd like to see me try that one in any other position. The only problem I've had so far with these exercises is that every day except today, it triggered sciatic nerve pain. Today, I took Ultram before I got there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 In a message dated 2/28/2001 7:48:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, liliwigg@... writes: << I ALSO talk with my pharmacist, that has been an excellent source of info. The pharmacy here has my medications on computer, so they can see if something is going to interract with something else in a wrong way. The pharmacist here also does consultations with me, if I am starting a new medication >> That's the way my pharmacist is, I always talk to him, plus I have a Drug Facts Book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 In a message dated 2/28/2001 8:10:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, BILL@... writes: << If any one truly believes this I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you. BC >> Is that the Brooklyn Bridge? Have a friend in Brooklyn that might be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Overskov <webmaster@...> < > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:49 PM Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain >I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. The doc`s said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there was some very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go ( lets say the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of it will not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells betwin the neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. >>>>>>>I'll take the meds to help pain, regardless of which spots it hits or miss's! The hits out weigh the miss's. ~> Becky M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 Dennis, Lamar here, I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the fact is that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters (chemicals in the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to the synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the nerves). Of the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors) keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the dendrite (one end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or junction and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good action, and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all blanket is totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about how it works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep the cell membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing and the older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action on the nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should not take are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who already have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without CMT, proper medication is essential to life. You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they were, perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even a registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave you the wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation that should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this way, assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. ly, it surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a physician that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not for medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a person with the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical field. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Overskov Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. The doc`s said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there was some very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go ( lets say the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of it will not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells betwin the neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> < > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM Subject: [] treating resistent pain > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It took away > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head and back > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all is OK. > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT issue, > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just about > gone. ~ G > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 -----Original Message----- From: Lamar son <lls@...> < > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain >Dennis, >Lamar here, > >I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the fact is >that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters (chemicals in >the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to the >synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the nerves). Of >the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance >antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors) >keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the dendrite (one >end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or junction >and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good action, >and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all blanket is >totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about how it >works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep the cell >membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the >bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing and the >older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action on the >nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should not take >are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who already >have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without CMT, >proper medication is essential to life. > >You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they were, >perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even a >registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave you the >wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation that >should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this way, >assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. ly, it >surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a physician >that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not for >medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a person with >the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of Naturopathic >Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical field. >>>>>>>>Thanks Lamar, I wanted to comment about this subject as being in error, what good would any medications do anyone if this were true! Sounds like this " DR " is one of whom think all meds are harmful. Or perhaps that person has never felt pain to an extent that they felt they had to take any medications for it. Most persons like that have that attitude about medications, if they don't need it then you sure don't need it! They can't imgine another having any pain that is worse then what they have, LOL~>Becky M. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dennis Overskov > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > > > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. The doc`s >said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there was some >very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go ( lets say >the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of it will >not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells betwin the >neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > < > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It took away > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head and back > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all is OK. > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT issue, > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just about > > gone. ~ G > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 Lamar again, Don't know what was wrong with my typing. " To make a banquet statement about all blanket is totally wrong. " Should read, " To make a blanket statement about all medication is totally wrong. " ----- Original Message ----- From: Lamar son Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 06:24 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain Dennis, Lamar here, I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the fact is that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters (chemicals in the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to the synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the nerves). Of the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors) keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the dendrite (one end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or junction and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good action, and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all blanket is totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about how it works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep the cell membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing and the older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action on the nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should not take are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who already have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without CMT, proper medication is essential to life. You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they were, perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even a registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave you the wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation that should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this way, assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. ly, it surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a physician that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not for medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a person with the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical field. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Overskov Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. The doc`s said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there was some very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go ( lets say the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of it will not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells betwin the neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> < > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM Subject: [] treating resistent pain > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It took away > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head and back > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all is OK. > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT issue, > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just about > gone. ~ G > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 -----Original Message----- From: Lamar son <lls@...> < > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain >Lamar again, >Don't know what was wrong with my typing. " To make a banquet statement >about all blanket is totally wrong. " Should read, " To make a blanket >statement about all medication is totally wrong. " >>>>>>Hey Lamar, your excused as it is dinner time! lol Funny I knew what you were saying and I never caught that error, LOL, ~>Becky M. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lamar son > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 06:24 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > Dennis, > Lamar here, > > I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the fact >is > that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters (chemicals >in > the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to the > synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the nerves). Of > the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance > antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors) > keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the dendrite >(one > end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or >junction > and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good action, > and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all blanket is > totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about how it > works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep the >cell > membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the > bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing and the > older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action on >the > nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should not >take > are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who >already > have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without CMT, > proper medication is essential to life. > > You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they were, > perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even a > registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave you >the > wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation that > should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this way, > assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. ly, it > surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a physician > that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not for > medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a person >with > the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of Naturopathic > Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical >field. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dennis Overskov > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > > > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. The >doc`s > said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there was >some > very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go ( lets >say > the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of it >will > not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells betwin >the > neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > < > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It took >away > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head and >back > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all is OK. > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT issue, > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just about > > gone. ~ G > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 Of course medications are designed to benefit mankind and they certainly do, but make no mistake about it, medications cause side effects and do damage to the body. Most people on long term medication sustain liver and kidney damage. Our organs can only purge so much. Medications are chemicals. They are certainly not good for you, however in most cases they are the lesser of two evils. Most pain medications that are worth a darn are also highly addictive. Regards, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Maxwell <rmax@...> < > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lamar son <lls@...> > < > > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:21 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > >Dennis, > >Lamar here, > > > >I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the fact > is > >that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters (chemicals > in > >the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to the > >synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the nerves). Of > >the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance > >antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors) > >keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the dendrite (one > >end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or junction > >and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good action, > >and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all blanket is > >totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about how it > >works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep the > cell > >membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the > >bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing and the > >older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action on the > >nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should not > take > >are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who already > >have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without CMT, > >proper medication is essential to life. > > > >You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they were, > >perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even a > >registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave you the > >wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation that > >should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this way, > >assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. ly, it > >surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a physician > >that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not for > >medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a person with > >the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of Naturopathic > >Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical field. > > >>>>>>>>Thanks Lamar, I wanted to comment about this subject as being in > error, what good would any medications do anyone if this were true! Sounds > like this " DR " is one of whom think all meds are harmful. Or perhaps that > person has never felt pain to an extent that they felt they had to take any > medications for it. Most persons like that have that attitude about > medications, if they don't need it then you sure don't need it! They can't > imgine another having any pain that is worse then what they have, LOL~>Becky > M. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dennis Overskov > > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. The > doc`s > >said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there was > some > >very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go ( lets say > >the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of it > will > >not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells betwin > the > >neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > > < > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It took away > > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head and back > > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all is OK. > > > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT issue, > > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just about > > > gone. ~ G > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 I would rather have a banquet than a blanket myself. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lamar son <lls@...> < > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > Lamar again, > Don't know what was wrong with my typing. " To make a banquet statement > about all blanket is totally wrong. " Should read, " To make a blanket > statement about all medication is totally wrong. " > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lamar son > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 06:24 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > Dennis, > Lamar here, > > I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the fact > is > that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters (chemicals > in > the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to the > synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the nerves). Of > the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance > antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors) > keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the dendrite > (one > end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or > junction > and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good action, > and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all blanket is > totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about how it > works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep the > cell > membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the > bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing and the > older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action on > the > nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should not > take > are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who > already > have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without CMT, > proper medication is essential to life. > > You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they were, > perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even a > registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave you > the > wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation that > should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this way, > assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. ly, it > surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a physician > that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not for > medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a person > with > the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of Naturopathic > Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical > field. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dennis Overskov > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > > > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. The > doc`s > said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there was > some > very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go ( lets > say > the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of it > will > not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells betwin > the > neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > < > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It took > away > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head and > back > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all is OK. > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT issue, > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just about > > gone. ~ G > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 " CNP patients will develop a physical dependance on opiod drugs, but this is not the same thing as addiction, which is an aberrent psychological state. " If any one truly believes this I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you. BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Maxwell <rmax@...> < > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:32 PM Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill , Digitec Security <BILL@...> > < > > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:10 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > >Of course medications are designed to benefit mankind and they certainly > do, > >but make no mistake about it, medications cause side effects and do damage > >to the body. Most people on long term medication sustain liver and kidney > >damage. Our organs can only purge so much. Medications are chemicals. They > >are certainly not good for you, however in most cases they are the lesser > of > >two evils. Most pain medications that are worth a darn are also highly > >addictive. > >Regards, > > http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/hibiscus/152/fact.html > Contrary to common fears, numerous studies have shown addiction is extremely > rare in pain patients taking opioid drugs, even in patients with histories > of drug abuse and/or addiction. CNP patients will develop a physical > dependence on opioid drugs, but this is not the same thing as addiction, > which is an aberrant psychological state. (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, > 13, 14) > Unrelieved pain has many negative health consequences including, but not > limited to: increased stress, metabolic rate, blood clotting and water > retention; delayed healing; hormonal imbalances; impaired immune system and > gastrointestinal functioning; decreased mobility; interference with appetite > and sleep, and needless suffering. CNP also causes many psychological > problems, such as feelings of powerlessness, hopelessness, low self-esteem, > and depression. (12, 15, 16, 18, 19) > Undertreatment of CNP often results in suicide. In a recent survey, 50% of > CNP patients had inadequate pain relief and had considered suicide to escape > the unrelenting agony of their pain. Unrelieved pain also leads to requests > for physician-assisted suicide, another indicator of pain's harsh impact on > the quality of life of many patients and their families. (7, 8, 13, 14, 15, > 16,) > Discrimination against CNP patients is pervasive in the American health care > system. Women, racial/ethnic minorities, children, the elderly, worker's > compensation patients, and previously disabled patients (e.g., those with > cerebral palsy, or who are deaf, blind, amputees, survivors of childhood > polio, etc.) are at great risk for undertreatment of their pain, even though > patients belonging to one or more of these groups are the vast majority of > all CNP patients. (2, 13, 17) > CNP patients with severe, unrelenting pain from permanent structural damage > to the neurologic or musculo-skeletal systems are often subjected to > expensive and unnecessary surgeries and other painful invasive procedures. > Arachnoiditis and reflex sympathetic dystrophy are the most common causes of > severe CNP. Other common causes include: post-trauma, adhesions, systemic > lupus, headaches, degenerative arthritis, fibromyalgia, and neuropathies. > (8, 15, 18, 19) > <sep2.gif> > Sources: > (1) American Chronic Pain Association. " Coping with Chronic Pain. " 1995. > (2) Brownlee, , and Joannie M. Schrof. " The Quality of Mercy. " U.S. > News and World Report, March 17, 1997: 55-57, 60-62, 65, 67. > (3) Pasero, L., R.N., B.S.N., and Margo McCaffery, R.N., M.S., > F.A.A.N. " Pain Control. " American Journal of Nursing. Vol. 97, No. 6., June, > 1997: 20-21. > (4) American Academy of Pain Medicine and American Pain Society. " The Use of > Opioids for the Treatment of Chronic Pain. " Clinical Journal of Pain, Vol. > 13, March, 1997: 6-8. > (5) Medina J.L., M.D., and S. Diamond, M.D. " Drug Dependency in Patients > with Chronic Headache. " Headache, 1977, Vol. 17: 12-14. > (6) Porter J., M.D. and H. Jick, M.D. " Addiction Rare in Patients Treated > with Narcotics. " New England Journal of Medicine 1980, Vol. 302: 123. > (7) Hitchcock, S., Ph.D., et al. " The Experience of Chronic > Nonmalignant Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 9, No. 5, > July 1994: 312-318. > (8) Tennant, Forest, M.D., Dr. P.H., and Harvey Rose, M.D. " Guidelines for > Opioid Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. " California Task Force on > Opiod Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. January 1, 1997. Research > Center for Dependency Disorders and Chronic Pain Community Health Projects > Medical Group, West Covina, CA > (9) Zenz, M.D., et al. " Long-Term Oral Opioid Therapy in Patients > With Chronic Nonmalignant Pain, " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, > Vol. 7, No. 2, February 1992: 69-77. > (10) Friedman, P., Ph.D. " Perspectives on the Medical Use of Drugs of > Abuse. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl.) > February 1990: S2-S5. > (11) Portenoy, K., M.D. " Chronic Opioid Therapy in Nonmalignant > Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl) > February 1990: S46-S62. > (12) Dellasega and Keiser. " Pharmacologic Approaches to Chronic Pain in the > Adult. " Nurse Practitioner. Vol. 22, No. 5, May 1997: 20-25. > (13) Medical Board of California. " Prescribing for Pain Management. " May 6, > 1996. > (14) California Board of Pharmacy. " Health Notes: Pain Management. " 1996. > (15) Canine, Craig. " Pain, Profit, and Sweet Relief. " Worth. March, 1997: > 79-82, 151-157. > (16) Liebeskind, J.C. " Pain Can Kill. " Pain, Vol. 44, No. 1, January 1991: > 3-4. > (17) Morse, T.B. " America's War on the Disabled. " Albuquerque, NM: 60's > Press. > (18) National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases. > " Scientific Workshop Summary: The Neuroscience and Endocrinology of > Fibromyalgia. " July 1996. Bethesda, MD. > (19) , Nadyne, et al. (eds.). " Third Annual Fibromyalgia Research > Conference. " February 1994. Inland Northwest Fibromyalgia Association. > Spokane, WA 99206 > <sep2.gif> > Fact sheet prepared on July 15, 1997, by Marcia E. Bedard, Ph.D., > Professor of Women's Studies, California State University, Fresno, CA > 93740-0078. It may be reproduced in print or electronic form by any > individual or group for educational purposes. Comments may be sent to the > author at the above address or by e-mail to: marcia_bedard@.... > Special thanks to Barbara Acello, Ann LeBlanc, and McKenna for > research assistance, as well as CNP patients on the Internet who sent me so > many excellent suggestions for additions. -MB- > <sep2.gif> > Related Articles > Commentary: The Practice and Politics of Pain Treatment > > When Narcotics Work Well > > <linje.gif> > > >BC > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > >< > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:38 PM > >Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Lamar son <lls@...> > >> < > > >> Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:21 PM > >> Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > >> > >> > >> >Dennis, > >> >Lamar here, > >> > > >> >I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the > fact > >> is > >> >that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters > (chemicals > >> in > >> >the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to the > >> >synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the nerves). > >Of > >> >the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance > >> >antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake > inhibitors) > >> >keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the dendrite > >(one > >> >end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or > >junction > >> >and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good > action, > >> >and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all blanket is > >> >totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about how > >it > >> >works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep the > >> cell > >> >membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the > >> >bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing and > >the > >> >older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action on > >the > >> >nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should not > >> take > >> >are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who > >already > >> >have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without CMT, > >> >proper medication is essential to life. > >> > > >> >You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they were, > >> >perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even a > >> >registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave you > >the > >> >wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation that > >> >should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this > way, > >> >assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. ly, > it > >> >surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a > physician > >> >that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not for > >> >medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a person > >with > >> >the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of Naturopathic > >> >Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical > >field. > >> > >> >>>>>>>>Thanks Lamar, I wanted to comment about this subject as being in > >> error, what good would any medications do anyone if this were true! > >Sounds > >> like this " DR " is one of whom think all meds are harmful. Or perhaps > that > >> person has never felt pain to an extent that they felt they had to take > >any > >> medications for it. Most persons like that have that attitude about > >> medications, if they don't need it then you sure don't need it! They > can't > >> imgine another having any pain that is worse then what they have, > >LOL~>Becky > >> M. > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Dennis Overskov > >> > > >> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > >> > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > >> > > >> > > >> > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. The > >> doc`s > >> >said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there was > >> some > >> >very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go lets > >say > >> >the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of it > >> will > >> >not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells betwin > >> the > >> >neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > >> > < > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > >> > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > >> > > >> > > >> > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It took > >away > >> > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head and > >back > >> > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all is > >OK. > >> > >> > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT > issue, > >> > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just about > >> > > gone. ~ G > >> > > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 -----Original Message----- From: ktbugg54@... <ktbugg54@...> < > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain >In a message dated 2/28/2001 8:10:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, >BILL@... writes: > ><< If any one truly believes this I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell > you. > BC >> > >Is that the Brooklyn Bridge? Have a friend in Brooklyn that might be >interested. > > >>>>>>>>>>>Bill, I'd preferr to see the deed to it first thank you, then after seeing it was all ok, I'd be interested, since I believe " CNP patients will develop a physical dependance on opiod drugs, but this is not the same thing as addiction, which is an aberrent psychological state. " ~>Becky M. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 If I am in pain, I want relief. I need relief. I want comfort. If that means I get addicted, that is OK with me. It is also OK with my brother (only relative) and specifically spelled out on my DPAHC which is on file with just about everyone that needs it. I am just grateful my pain level is comfortable now but have made these 'arrangements' anyway, now when I am lucid and feeling pretty good. As a recovering alcoholic I am all to aware of the concept and reality of addiction. I am upfront with my doctors about what is prescribed and the amount because of this. I also know that IF I find it necessary to 'change' the prescription (i.e., add more) I MUST call my Dr. first. This is another way in which I work with my Drs. in a positive light. ~ G > >>>>>>>>>>>Bill, I'd preferr to see the deed to it first thank you, then > after seeing it was all ok, I'd be interested, since I believe " CNP patients > will develop a physical dependance on opiod drugs, but this is > not the same thing as addiction, which is an aberrent psychological state. " > ~>Becky M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 Bill, Lamar here, Throw in my island in Arizona. As a certified Substance Abuse Counselor and one that specialized for 15 years in substance abuse treatment, I can readily say that a physical dependency (which IS a physical addiction) to drugs is worse than a psychological one. Cocaine and cannabis can result in a psychological dependency, but withdrawal from them is very simple---the problem comes from them WANTING the drug again. Opioids and other narcotic drugs as well as benzodiazapines result in a physical need. Stopping the drug suddenly can result in physical withdrawal, seizures, and even potentially death. The body is screaming for the drug. On the other hand, chronic pain patients may not experience the pleasant reaction to the drug and may not psychologically want it, but their body does not listen to their mind. The need becomes very real. I can verify that personally. About eleven years ago I had a severe herniated disc in my back. I could not walk and was in constant pain to the point I was in tears. It was so severe that I even had suicidal thoughts. I did not want to die, but did not want to live in the pain. I spent three weeks in the hospital in traction and getting PT three times a day. The entire time I was given Demerol IV at the rate of 1200mg a day. In addition to that I got IV Valium and Robaxin. The dose of Demerol was 4-6 times the usual dose. It still did not resolve the pain. I never slept over 15 minutes at a time. I blacked out from pain several times. Finally, surgery relieved it. I never wanted the medication, though I did want relief. I got it IV on a continuous basis and did not request it. After my surgery my post op pain was nothing compared to what I had experienced. On the fifth day after surgery I started getting nervous. I then developed tremors, blood pressure changes, sweating, and was almost " climbing the walls " . I had developed a physical addiction in three weeks in the hospital. I realized what was going on and fought it, but my body was telling me to find some medication even though I was not in pain. I experienced withdrawal. Compared to what it could have been and others I have seen, it was MINOR withdrawal, but it was very real. The other thing that medical professionals see is people that fake pain for drugs. I have seen individuals that would go to as many as six emergency rooms in a day to get drugs for pain. They laugh about how well they can " fake " it, and many are experts. It is really easy to fake pain. You can not measure it like you can pulse, blood pressure, or temperature. You can usually observe their reaction, but as I said many fake it. These are the ones that sometimes make it difficult for a person that is really in pain to get proper medication. The pains usually faked the most are headaches, back pain, and neuropathic pain. I will say that I am not saying that any person on this list or any person with CMT does fake their pain. Neuropathic pain is very real, but there are those that fake it. The point is that all narcotic drugs are both physically and psychologically addicting. Each individual differs in the point where they may become addicted, but the potential is there and very real. With many chronic pain patients, the risk must be taken for them to function. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill , Digitec Security Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 08:05 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain " CNP patients will develop a physical dependance on opiod drugs, but this is not the same thing as addiction, which is an aberrent psychological state. " If any one truly believes this I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you. BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Maxwell <rmax@...> < > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:32 PM Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill , Digitec Security <BILL@...> > < > > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:10 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > >Of course medications are designed to benefit mankind and they certainly > do, > >but make no mistake about it, medications cause side effects and do damage > >to the body. Most people on long term medication sustain liver and kidney > >damage. Our organs can only purge so much. Medications are chemicals. They > >are certainly not good for you, however in most cases they are the lesser > of > >two evils. Most pain medications that are worth a darn are also highly > >addictive. > >Regards, > > http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/hibiscus/152/fact.html > Contrary to common fears, numerous studies have shown addiction is extremely > rare in pain patients taking opioid drugs, even in patients with histories > of drug abuse and/or addiction. CNP patients will develop a physical > dependence on opioid drugs, but this is not the same thing as addiction, > which is an aberrant psychological state. (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, > 13, 14) > Unrelieved pain has many negative health consequences including, but not > limited to: increased stress, metabolic rate, blood clotting and water > retention; delayed healing; hormonal imbalances; impaired immune system and > gastrointestinal functioning; decreased mobility; interference with appetite > and sleep, and needless suffering. CNP also causes many psychological > problems, such as feelings of powerlessness, hopelessness, low self-esteem, > and depression. (12, 15, 16, 18, 19) > Undertreatment of CNP often results in suicide. In a recent survey, 50% of > CNP patients had inadequate pain relief and had considered suicide to escape > the unrelenting agony of their pain. Unrelieved pain also leads to requests > for physician-assisted suicide, another indicator of pain's harsh impact on > the quality of life of many patients and their families. (7, 8, 13, 14, 15, > 16,) > Discrimination against CNP patients is pervasive in the American health care > system. Women, racial/ethnic minorities, children, the elderly, worker's > compensation patients, and previously disabled patients (e.g., those with > cerebral palsy, or who are deaf, blind, amputees, survivors of childhood > polio, etc.) are at great risk for undertreatment of their pain, even though > patients belonging to one or more of these groups are the vast majority of > all CNP patients. (2, 13, 17) > CNP patients with severe, unrelenting pain from permanent structural damage > to the neurologic or musculo-skeletal systems are often subjected to > expensive and unnecessary surgeries and other painful invasive procedures. > Arachnoiditis and reflex sympathetic dystrophy are the most common causes of > severe CNP. Other common causes include: post-trauma, adhesions, systemic > lupus, headaches, degenerative arthritis, fibromyalgia, and neuropathies. > (8, 15, 18, 19) > <sep2.gif> > Sources: > (1) American Chronic Pain Association. " Coping with Chronic Pain. " 1995. > (2) Brownlee, , and Joannie M. Schrof. " The Quality of Mercy. " U.S. > News and World Report, March 17, 1997: 55-57, 60-62, 65, 67. > (3) Pasero, L., R.N., B.S.N., and Margo McCaffery, R.N., M.S., > F.A.A.N. " Pain Control. " American Journal of Nursing. Vol. 97, No. 6., June, > 1997: 20-21. > (4) American Academy of Pain Medicine and American Pain Society. " The Use of > Opioids for the Treatment of Chronic Pain. " Clinical Journal of Pain, Vol. > 13, March, 1997: 6-8. > (5) Medina J.L., M.D., and S. Diamond, M.D. " Drug Dependency in Patients > with Chronic Headache. " Headache, 1977, Vol. 17: 12-14. > (6) Porter J., M.D. and H. Jick, M.D. " Addiction Rare in Patients Treated > with Narcotics. " New England Journal of Medicine 1980, Vol. 302: 123. > (7) Hitchcock, S., Ph.D., et al. " The Experience of Chronic > Nonmalignant Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 9, No. 5, > July 1994: 312-318. > (8) Tennant, Forest, M.D., Dr. P.H., and Harvey Rose, M.D. " Guidelines for > Opioid Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. " California Task Force on > Opiod Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. January 1, 1997. Research > Center for Dependency Disorders and Chronic Pain Community Health Projects > Medical Group, West Covina, CA > (9) Zenz, M.D., et al. " Long-Term Oral Opioid Therapy in Patients > With Chronic Nonmalignant Pain, " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, > Vol. 7, No. 2, February 1992: 69-77. > (10) Friedman, P., Ph.D. " Perspectives on the Medical Use of Drugs of > Abuse. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl.) > February 1990: S2-S5. > (11) Portenoy, K., M.D. " Chronic Opioid Therapy in Nonmalignant > Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl) > February 1990: S46-S62. > (12) Dellasega and Keiser. " Pharmacologic Approaches to Chronic Pain in the > Adult. " Nurse Practitioner. Vol. 22, No. 5, May 1997: 20-25. > (13) Medical Board of California. " Prescribing for Pain Management. " May 6, > 1996. > (14) California Board of Pharmacy. " Health Notes: Pain Management. " 1996. > (15) Canine, Craig. " Pain, Profit, and Sweet Relief. " Worth. March, 1997: > 79-82, 151-157. > (16) Liebeskind, J.C. " Pain Can Kill. " Pain, Vol. 44, No. 1, January 1991: > 3-4. > (17) Morse, T.B. " America's War on the Disabled. " Albuquerque, NM: 60's > Press. > (18) National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases. > " Scientific Workshop Summary: The Neuroscience and Endocrinology of > Fibromyalgia. " July 1996. Bethesda, MD. > (19) , Nadyne, et al. (eds.). " Third Annual Fibromyalgia Research > Conference. " February 1994. Inland Northwest Fibromyalgia Association. > Spokane, WA 99206 > <sep2.gif> > Fact sheet prepared on July 15, 1997, by Marcia E. Bedard, Ph.D., > Professor of Women's Studies, California State University, Fresno, CA > 93740-0078. It may be reproduced in print or electronic form by any > individual or group for educational purposes. Comments may be sent to the > author at the above address or by e-mail to: marcia_bedard@.... > Special thanks to Barbara Acello, Ann LeBlanc, and McKenna for > research assistance, as well as CNP patients on the Internet who sent me so > many excellent suggestions for additions. -MB- > <sep2.gif> > Related Articles > Commentary: The Practice and Politics of Pain Treatment > > When Narcotics Work Well > > <linje.gif> > > >BC > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > >< > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:38 PM > >Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Lamar son <lls@...> > >> < > > >> Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:21 PM > >> Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > >> > >> > >> >Dennis, > >> >Lamar here, > >> > > >> >I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the > fact > >> is > >> >that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters > (chemicals > >> in > >> >the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to the > >> >synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the nerves). > >Of > >> >the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance > >> >antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake > inhibitors) > >> >keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the dendrite > >(one > >> >end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or > >junction > >> >and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good > action, > >> >and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all blanket is > >> >totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about how > >it > >> >works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep the > >> cell > >> >membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the > >> >bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing and > >the > >> >older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action on > >the > >> >nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should not > >> take > >> >are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who > >already > >> >have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without CMT, > >> >proper medication is essential to life. > >> > > >> >You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they were, > >> >perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even a > >> >registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave you > >the > >> >wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation that > >> >should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this > way, > >> >assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. ly, > it > >> >surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a > physician > >> >that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not for > >> >medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a person > >with > >> >the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of Naturopathic > >> >Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical > >field. > >> > >> >>>>>>>>Thanks Lamar, I wanted to comment about this subject as being in > >> error, what good would any medications do anyone if this were true! > >Sounds > >> like this " DR " is one of whom think all meds are harmful. Or perhaps > that > >> person has never felt pain to an extent that they felt they had to take > >any > >> medications for it. Most persons like that have that attitude about > >> medications, if they don't need it then you sure don't need it! They > can't > >> imgine another having any pain that is worse then what they have, > >LOL~>Becky > >> M. > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Dennis Overskov > >> > > >> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > >> > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > >> > > >> > > >> > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. The > >> doc`s > >> >said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there was > >> some > >> >very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go lets > >say > >> >the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of it > >> will > >> >not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells betwin > >> the > >> >neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > >> > < > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > >> > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > >> > > >> > > >> > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It took > >away > >> > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head and > >back > >> > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all is > >OK. > >> > >> > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT > issue, > >> > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just about > >> > > gone. ~ G > >> > > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 -----Original Message----- From: Lamar son <lls@...> < > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain >>>>>>>>The only medicine I have been taking for pain is in a long time is Ultrams. I don't take pain meds the way they are prescribed and my Dr's know this so now they prescribed them to say, as needed. I may take 2 today for pain and none for 3-4 days then have to take one. Then may have to take 4, 3 days later. I only use pain meds as needed. And I usually wait til I'm hurting pretty bad before I take them. I don't see how a person could become addicted taking pain medications if they only take them when needed. I could understand if you had to take them every four hours 7 days per week! But really who among us takes that much pain meds that often? I think we are all pretty reasonable people and know the risks and prefer to take meds as needed and know when we could run into a problem, with out being lectured about addiction. Just my opinion, ~>Becky M. >Bill, >Lamar here, >Throw in my island in Arizona. As a certified Substance Abuse Counselor and >one that specialized for 15 years in substance abuse treatment, I can >readily say that a physical dependency (which IS a physical addiction) to >drugs is worse than a psychological one. Cocaine and cannabis can result in >a psychological dependency, but withdrawal from them is very simple---the >problem comes from them WANTING the drug again. Opioids and other narcotic >drugs as well as benzodiazapines result in a physical need. Stopping the >drug suddenly can result in physical withdrawal, seizures, and even >potentially death. The body is screaming for the drug. > >On the other hand, chronic pain patients may not experience the pleasant >reaction to the drug and may not psychologically want it, but their body >does not listen to their mind. The need becomes very real. I can verify >that personally. About eleven years ago I had a severe herniated disc in my >back. I could not walk and was in constant pain to the point I was in >tears. It was so severe that I even had suicidal thoughts. I did not want >to die, but did not want to live in the pain. I spent three weeks in the >hospital in traction and getting PT three times a day. The entire time I >was given Demerol IV at the rate of 1200mg a day. In addition to that I got >IV Valium and Robaxin. The dose of Demerol was 4-6 times the usual dose. >It still did not resolve the pain. I never slept over 15 minutes at a time. >I blacked out from pain several times. Finally, surgery relieved it. I >never wanted the medication, though I did want relief. I got it IV on a >continuous basis and did not request it. After my surgery my post op pain >was nothing compared to what I had experienced. On the fifth day after >surgery I started getting nervous. I then developed tremors, blood pressure >changes, sweating, and was almost " climbing the walls " . I had developed a >physical addiction in three weeks in the hospital. I realized what was >going on and fought it, but my body was telling me to find some medication >even though I was not in pain. I experienced withdrawal. Compared to what >it could have been and others I have seen, it was MINOR withdrawal, but it >was very real. > >The other thing that medical professionals see is people that fake pain for >drugs. I have seen individuals that would go to as many as six emergency >rooms in a day to get drugs for pain. They laugh about how well they can > " fake " it, and many are experts. It is really easy to fake pain. You can >not measure it like you can pulse, blood pressure, or temperature. You can >usually observe their reaction, but as I said many fake it. These are the >ones that sometimes make it difficult for a person that is really in pain to >get proper medication. The pains usually faked the most are headaches, back >pain, and neuropathic pain. I will say that I am not saying that any person >on this list or any person with CMT does fake their pain. Neuropathic pain >is very real, but there are those that fake it. > >The point is that all narcotic drugs are both physically and psychologically >addicting. Each individual differs in the point where they may become >addicted, but the potential is there and very real. With many chronic pain >patients, the risk must be taken for them to function. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill , Digitec Security > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 08:05 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > " CNP patients will develop a physical dependance on opiod drugs, but this >is > not the same thing as addiction, which is an aberrent psychological >state. " > > If any one truly believes this I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell > you. > BC > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > < > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:32 PM > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bill , Digitec Security <BILL@...> > > < > > > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > >Of course medications are designed to benefit mankind and they >certainly > > do, > > >but make no mistake about it, medications cause side effects and do > damage > > >to the body. Most people on long term medication sustain liver and >kidney > > >damage. Our organs can only purge so much. Medications are chemicals. > They > > >are certainly not good for you, however in most cases they are the >lesser > > of > > >two evils. Most pain medications that are worth a darn are also highly > > >addictive. > > >Regards, > > > > http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/hibiscus/152/fact.html > > Contrary to common fears, numerous studies have shown addiction is > extremely > > rare in pain patients taking opioid drugs, even in patients with >histories > > of drug abuse and/or addiction. CNP patients will develop a physical > > dependence on opioid drugs, but this is not the same thing as addiction, > > which is an aberrant psychological state. (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, >11, > > 13, 14) > > Unrelieved pain has many negative health consequences including, but not > > limited to: increased stress, metabolic rate, blood clotting and water > > retention; delayed healing; hormonal imbalances; impaired immune system > and > > gastrointestinal functioning; decreased mobility; interference with > appetite > > and sleep, and needless suffering. CNP also causes many psychological > > problems, such as feelings of powerlessness, hopelessness, low > self-esteem, > > and depression. (12, 15, 16, 18, 19) > > Undertreatment of CNP often results in suicide. In a recent survey, 50% >of > > CNP patients had inadequate pain relief and had considered suicide to > escape > > the unrelenting agony of their pain. Unrelieved pain also leads to > requests > > for physician-assisted suicide, another indicator of pain's harsh impact > on > > the quality of life of many patients and their families. (7, 8, 13, 14, > 15, > > 16,) > > Discrimination against CNP patients is pervasive in the American health > care > > system. Women, racial/ethnic minorities, children, the elderly, worker's > > compensation patients, and previously disabled patients (e.g., those >with > > cerebral palsy, or who are deaf, blind, amputees, survivors of childhood > > polio, etc.) are at great risk for undertreatment of their pain, even > though > > patients belonging to one or more of these groups are the vast majority >of > > all CNP patients. (2, 13, 17) > > CNP patients with severe, unrelenting pain from permanent structural > damage > > to the neurologic or musculo-skeletal systems are often subjected to > > expensive and unnecessary surgeries and other painful invasive >procedures. > > Arachnoiditis and reflex sympathetic dystrophy are the most common >causes > of > > severe CNP. Other common causes include: post-trauma, adhesions, >systemic > > lupus, headaches, degenerative arthritis, fibromyalgia, and >neuropathies. > > (8, 15, 18, 19) > > <sep2.gif> > > Sources: > > (1) American Chronic Pain Association. " Coping with Chronic Pain. " 1995. > > (2) Brownlee, , and Joannie M. Schrof. " The Quality of Mercy. " >U.S. > > News and World Report, March 17, 1997: 55-57, 60-62, 65, 67. > > (3) Pasero, L., R.N., B.S.N., and Margo McCaffery, R.N., M.S., > > F.A.A.N. " Pain Control. " American Journal of Nursing. Vol. 97, No. 6., > June, > > 1997: 20-21. > > (4) American Academy of Pain Medicine and American Pain Society. " The >Use > of > > Opioids for the Treatment of Chronic Pain. " Clinical Journal of Pain, >Vol. > > 13, March, 1997: 6-8. > > (5) Medina J.L., M.D., and S. Diamond, M.D. " Drug Dependency in Patients > > with Chronic Headache. " Headache, 1977, Vol. 17: 12-14. > > (6) Porter J., M.D. and H. Jick, M.D. " Addiction Rare in Patients >Treated > > with Narcotics. " New England Journal of Medicine 1980, Vol. 302: 123. > > (7) Hitchcock, S., Ph.D., et al. " The Experience of Chronic > > Nonmalignant Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 9, No. >5, > > July 1994: 312-318. > > (8) Tennant, Forest, M.D., Dr. P.H., and Harvey Rose, M.D. " Guidelines >for > > Opioid Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. " California Task Force >on > > Opiod Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. January 1, 1997. Research > > Center for Dependency Disorders and Chronic Pain Community Health >Projects > > Medical Group, West Covina, CA > > (9) Zenz, M.D., et al. " Long-Term Oral Opioid Therapy in >Patients > > With Chronic Nonmalignant Pain, " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, > > Vol. 7, No. 2, February 1992: 69-77. > > (10) Friedman, P., Ph.D. " Perspectives on the Medical Use of Drugs > of > > Abuse. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl.) > > February 1990: S2-S5. > > (11) Portenoy, K., M.D. " Chronic Opioid Therapy in Nonmalignant > > Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl) > > February 1990: S46-S62. > > (12) Dellasega and Keiser. " Pharmacologic Approaches to Chronic Pain in > the > > Adult. " Nurse Practitioner. Vol. 22, No. 5, May 1997: 20-25. > > (13) Medical Board of California. " Prescribing for Pain Management. " May > 6, > > 1996. > > (14) California Board of Pharmacy. " Health Notes: Pain Management. " >1996. > > (15) Canine, Craig. " Pain, Profit, and Sweet Relief. " Worth. March, >1997: > > 79-82, 151-157. > > (16) Liebeskind, J.C. " Pain Can Kill. " Pain, Vol. 44, No. 1, January >1991: > > 3-4. > > (17) Morse, T.B. " America's War on the Disabled. " Albuquerque, NM: 60's > > Press. > > (18) National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin > Diseases. > > " Scientific Workshop Summary: The Neuroscience and Endocrinology of > > Fibromyalgia. " July 1996. Bethesda, MD. > > (19) , Nadyne, et al. (eds.). " Third Annual Fibromyalgia Research > > Conference. " February 1994. Inland Northwest Fibromyalgia Association. > > Spokane, WA 99206 > > <sep2.gif> > > Fact sheet prepared on July 15, 1997, by Marcia E. Bedard, Ph.D., > > Professor of Women's Studies, California State University, Fresno, CA > > 93740-0078. It may be reproduced in print or electronic form by any > > individual or group for educational purposes. Comments may be sent to >the > > author at the above address or by e-mail to: >marcia_bedard@.... > > Special thanks to Barbara Acello, Ann LeBlanc, and McKenna for > > research assistance, as well as CNP patients on the Internet who sent me > so > > many excellent suggestions for additions. -MB- > > <sep2.gif> > > Related Articles > > Commentary: The Practice and Politics of Pain Treatment > > > > When Narcotics Work Well > > > > <linje.gif> > > > > >BC > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > > >< > > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:38 PM > > >Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Lamar son <lls@...> > > >> < > > > >> Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:21 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > >> > > >> > > >> >Dennis, > > >> >Lamar here, > > >> > > > >> >I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the > > fact > > >> is > > >> >that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters > > (chemicals > > >> in > > >> >the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to >the > > >> >synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the >nerves). > > >Of > > >> >the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance > > >> >antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake > > inhibitors) > > >> >keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the >dendrite > > >(one > > >> >end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or > > >junction > > >> >and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good > > action, > > >> >and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all >blanket > is > > >> >totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about > how > > >it > > >> >works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep > the > > >> cell > > >> >membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the > > >> >bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing >and > > >the > > >> >older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action > on > > >the > > >> >nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should > not > > >> take > > >> >are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who > > >already > > >> >have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without > CMT, > > >> >proper medication is essential to life. > > >> > > > >> >You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they >were, > > >> >perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even >a > > >> >registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave > you > > >the > > >> >wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation >that > > >> >should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this > > way, > > >> >assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. >ly, > > it > > >> >surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a > > physician > > >> >that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not > for > > >> >medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a >person > > >with > > >> >the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of > Naturopathic > > >> >Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical > > >field. > > >> > > >> >>>>>>>>Thanks Lamar, I wanted to comment about this subject as being > in > > >> error, what good would any medications do anyone if this were true! > > >Sounds > > >> like this " DR " is one of whom think all meds are harmful. Or perhaps > > that > > >> person has never felt pain to an extent that they felt they had to >take > > >any > > >> medications for it. Most persons like that have that attitude about > > >> medications, if they don't need it then you sure don't need it! They > > can't > > >> imgine another having any pain that is worse then what they have, > > >LOL~>Becky > > >> M. > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: Dennis Overskov > > >> > > > >> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > > >> > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. >The > > >> doc`s > > >> >said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there > was > > >> some > > >> >very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go > lets > > >say > > >> >the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of > it > > >> will > > >> >not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells > betwin > > >> the > > >> >neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > > >> > < > > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > > >> > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It >took > > >away > > >> > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head >and > > >back > > >> > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all >is > > >OK. > > >> > > >> > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT > > issue, > > >> > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just > about > > >> > > gone. ~ G > > >> > > > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 -----Original Message----- From: Lamar son <lls@...> < > Date: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:46 AM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain >>>>>>>Lamar, I wan't implying you were lecturing. Its just that everytime the subject of pain medications comes up, someone jumps in with the addiction thing. Its fine if a person decides not to take any meds for pain or for what ever, but don't start with harping on addiction to others who chose to take the meds to help with their pain, they have been there done that, know the risks, read the material available on it, and made their decision. Its each person choice. And others who disagree with taking the meds, (not you) should respect that and not cling to the addiction topic as if all who take meds are addicts! LOL. I have a torn rotator cuff, did it about 3 weeks ago, you mean it flairs up? I will have to go thru this again? yikes! No one told me about that. I am having a real hard time getting up out of chairs, off the bed, out of tub, etc. I have to push up, lift myself up, making harder to heal. ~>Becky M. >Becky, >Lamar here, >In no way am I lecturing. You are correct that with occasional use as you >describe, virtually any drug for pain is safe for most people and an >addiction will usually not take place. Ultram is not a narcotic and is not >considered by most to be habit forming in any way. In fact it is the drug I >prefer for moderate to severe pain. It does make me very sleepy. My Rx is >for one or two 50mg tabs four times a day as needed. 100 tabs usually lasts >me a year or two. I am taking it now for an old rotator cuff injury in my >shoulder that has flared up. > >The fact remains that narcotics including opiods and synthetic opioids are >both physically and psychologically addicting and the point where the >addictive properties become a problem differs with every individual. In >fact hydrocodone (Vicodin, etc.) is accepted as being the most abused Rx >drug in America, and I have seen deaths from withdrawal from it. > >As I said, neuropathic pain is very real, and for those that have problems >with it, proper medication can greatly improve the quality of life. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Maxwell > > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 01:02 AM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lamar son <lls@...> > < > > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:23 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > >>>>>>>>The only medicine I have been taking for pain is in a long time is > Ultrams. I don't take pain meds the way they are prescribed and my Dr's >know > this so now they prescribed them to say, as needed. I may take 2 today for > pain and none for 3-4 days then have to take one. Then may have to take 4, >3 > days later. I only use pain meds as needed. And I usually wait til I'm > hurting pretty bad before I take them. I don't see how a person could > become addicted taking pain medications if they only take them when >needed. > I could understand if you had to take them every four hours 7 days per >week! > But really > who among us takes that much pain meds that often? I think we are all > pretty reasonable people and know the risks and prefer to take meds as > needed and know when we could run into a problem, with out being lectured > about addiction. Just my opinion, ~>Becky M. > >Bill, > >Lamar here, > >Throw in my island in Arizona. As a certified Substance Abuse Counselor > and > >one that specialized for 15 years in substance abuse treatment, I can > >readily say that a physical dependency (which IS a physical addiction) to > >drugs is worse than a psychological one. Cocaine and cannabis can result > in > >a psychological dependency, but withdrawal from them is very simple---the > >problem comes from them WANTING the drug again. Opioids and other >narcotic > >drugs as well as benzodiazapines result in a physical need. Stopping the > >drug suddenly can result in physical withdrawal, seizures, and even > >potentially death. The body is screaming for the drug. > > > >On the other hand, chronic pain patients may not experience the pleasant > >reaction to the drug and may not psychologically want it, but their body > >does not listen to their mind. The need becomes very real. I can verify > >that personally. About eleven years ago I had a severe herniated disc in > my > >back. I could not walk and was in constant pain to the point I was in > >tears. It was so severe that I even had suicidal thoughts. I did not >want > >to die, but did not want to live in the pain. I spent three weeks in the > >hospital in traction and getting PT three times a day. The entire time I > >was given Demerol IV at the rate of 1200mg a day. In addition to that I > got > >IV Valium and Robaxin. The dose of Demerol was 4-6 times the usual dose. > >It still did not resolve the pain. I never slept over 15 minutes at a > time. > >I blacked out from pain several times. Finally, surgery relieved it. >I > >never wanted the medication, though I did want relief. I got it IV on a > >continuous basis and did not request it. After my surgery my post op >pain > >was nothing compared to what I had experienced. On the fifth day after > >surgery I started getting nervous. I then developed tremors, blood > pressure > >changes, sweating, and was almost " climbing the walls " . I had developed >a > >physical addiction in three weeks in the hospital. I realized what was > >going on and fought it, but my body was telling me to find some >medication > >even though I was not in pain. I experienced withdrawal. Compared to >what > >it could have been and others I have seen, it was MINOR withdrawal, but >it > >was very real. > > > >The other thing that medical professionals see is people that fake pain >for > >drugs. I have seen individuals that would go to as many as six emergency > >rooms in a day to get drugs for pain. They laugh about how well they can > > " fake " it, and many are experts. It is really easy to fake pain. You >can > >not measure it like you can pulse, blood pressure, or temperature. You >can > >usually observe their reaction, but as I said many fake it. These are >the > >ones that sometimes make it difficult for a person that is really in pain > to > >get proper medication. The pains usually faked the most are headaches, > back > >pain, and neuropathic pain. I will say that I am not saying that any > person > >on this list or any person with CMT does fake their pain. Neuropathic >pain > >is very real, but there are those that fake it. > > > >The point is that all narcotic drugs are both physically and > psychologically > >addicting. Each individual differs in the point where they may become > >addicted, but the potential is there and very real. With many chronic >pain > >patients, the risk must be taken for them to function. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill , Digitec Security > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 08:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > " CNP patients will develop a physical dependance on opiod drugs, but >this > >is > > not the same thing as addiction, which is an aberrent psychological > >state. " > > > > If any one truly believes this I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to >sell > > you. > > BC > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > > < > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:32 PM > > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bill , Digitec Security <BILL@...> > > > < > > > > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:10 PM > > > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > > > > >Of course medications are designed to benefit mankind and they > >certainly > > > do, > > > >but make no mistake about it, medications cause side effects and do > > damage > > > >to the body. Most people on long term medication sustain liver and > >kidney > > > >damage. Our organs can only purge so much. Medications are >chemicals. > > They > > > >are certainly not good for you, however in most cases they are the > >lesser > > > of > > > >two evils. Most pain medications that are worth a darn are also >highly > > > >addictive. > > > >Regards, > > > > > > http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/hibiscus/152/fact.html > > > Contrary to common fears, numerous studies have shown addiction is > > extremely > > > rare in pain patients taking opioid drugs, even in patients with > >histories > > > of drug abuse and/or addiction. CNP patients will develop a physical > > > dependence on opioid drugs, but this is not the same thing as > addiction, > > > which is an aberrant psychological state. (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, >10, > >11, > > > 13, 14) > > > Unrelieved pain has many negative health consequences including, but > not > > > limited to: increased stress, metabolic rate, blood clotting and >water > > > retention; delayed healing; hormonal imbalances; impaired immune >system > > and > > > gastrointestinal functioning; decreased mobility; interference with > > appetite > > > and sleep, and needless suffering. CNP also causes many psychological > > > problems, such as feelings of powerlessness, hopelessness, low > > self-esteem, > > > and depression. (12, 15, 16, 18, 19) > > > Undertreatment of CNP often results in suicide. In a recent survey, >50% > >of > > > CNP patients had inadequate pain relief and had considered suicide to > > escape > > > the unrelenting agony of their pain. Unrelieved pain also leads to > > requests > > > for physician-assisted suicide, another indicator of pain's harsh > impact > > on > > > the quality of life of many patients and their families. (7, 8, 13, >14, > > 15, > > > 16,) > > > Discrimination against CNP patients is pervasive in the American >health > > care > > > system. Women, racial/ethnic minorities, children, the elderly, > worker's > > > compensation patients, and previously disabled patients (e.g., those > >with > > > cerebral palsy, or who are deaf, blind, amputees, survivors of > childhood > > > polio, etc.) are at great risk for undertreatment of their pain, even > > though > > > patients belonging to one or more of these groups are the vast >majority > >of > > > all CNP patients. (2, 13, 17) > > > CNP patients with severe, unrelenting pain from permanent structural > > damage > > > to the neurologic or musculo-skeletal systems are often subjected to > > > expensive and unnecessary surgeries and other painful invasive > >procedures. > > > Arachnoiditis and reflex sympathetic dystrophy are the most common > >causes > > of > > > severe CNP. Other common causes include: post-trauma, adhesions, > >systemic > > > lupus, headaches, degenerative arthritis, fibromyalgia, and > >neuropathies. > > > (8, 15, 18, 19) > > > <sep2.gif> > > > Sources: > > > (1) American Chronic Pain Association. " Coping with Chronic Pain. " > 1995. > > > (2) Brownlee, , and Joannie M. Schrof. " The Quality of Mercy. " > >U.S. > > > News and World Report, March 17, 1997: 55-57, 60-62, 65, 67. > > > (3) Pasero, L., R.N., B.S.N., and Margo McCaffery, R.N., > M.S., > > > F.A.A.N. " Pain Control. " American Journal of Nursing. Vol. 97, No. >6., > > June, > > > 1997: 20-21. > > > (4) American Academy of Pain Medicine and American Pain Society. " The > >Use > > of > > > Opioids for the Treatment of Chronic Pain. " Clinical Journal of Pain, > >Vol. > > > 13, March, 1997: 6-8. > > > (5) Medina J.L., M.D., and S. Diamond, M.D. " Drug Dependency in > Patients > > > with Chronic Headache. " Headache, 1977, Vol. 17: 12-14. > > > (6) Porter J., M.D. and H. Jick, M.D. " Addiction Rare in Patients > >Treated > > > with Narcotics. " New England Journal of Medicine 1980, Vol. 302: 123. > > > (7) Hitchcock, S., Ph.D., et al. " The Experience of Chronic > > > Nonmalignant Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 9, >No. > >5, > > > July 1994: 312-318. > > > (8) Tennant, Forest, M.D., Dr. P.H., and Harvey Rose, M.D. > " Guidelines > >for > > > Opioid Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. " California Task >Force > >on > > > Opiod Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. January 1, 1997. > Research > > > Center for Dependency Disorders and Chronic Pain Community Health > >Projects > > > Medical Group, West Covina, CA > > > (9) Zenz, M.D., et al. " Long-Term Oral Opioid Therapy in > >Patients > > > With Chronic Nonmalignant Pain, " Journal of Pain and Symptom > Management, > > > Vol. 7, No. 2, February 1992: 69-77. > > > (10) Friedman, P., Ph.D. " Perspectives on the Medical Use of > Drugs > > of > > > Abuse. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 >(Suppl.) > > > February 1990: S2-S5. > > > (11) Portenoy, K., M.D. " Chronic Opioid Therapy in >Nonmalignant > > > Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl) > > > February 1990: S46-S62. > > > (12) Dellasega and Keiser. " Pharmacologic Approaches to Chronic Pain >in > > the > > > Adult. " Nurse Practitioner. Vol. 22, No. 5, May 1997: 20-25. > > > (13) Medical Board of California. " Prescribing for Pain Management. " > May > > 6, > > > 1996. > > > (14) California Board of Pharmacy. " Health Notes: Pain Management. " > >1996. > > > (15) Canine, Craig. " Pain, Profit, and Sweet Relief. " Worth. March, > >1997: > > > 79-82, 151-157. > > > (16) Liebeskind, J.C. " Pain Can Kill. " Pain, Vol. 44, No. 1, January > >1991: > > > 3-4. > > > (17) Morse, T.B. " America's War on the Disabled. " Albuquerque, NM: >60's > > > Press. > > > (18) National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin > > Diseases. > > > " Scientific Workshop Summary: The Neuroscience and Endocrinology of > > > Fibromyalgia. " July 1996. Bethesda, MD. > > > (19) , Nadyne, et al. (eds.). " Third Annual Fibromyalgia >Research > > > Conference. " February 1994. Inland Northwest Fibromyalgia >Association. > > > Spokane, WA 99206 > > > <sep2.gif> > > > Fact sheet prepared on July 15, 1997, by Marcia E. Bedard, >Ph.D., > > > Professor of Women's Studies, California State University, Fresno, CA > > > 93740-0078. It may be reproduced in print or electronic form by any > > > individual or group for educational purposes. Comments may be sent to > >the > > > author at the above address or by e-mail to: > >marcia_bedard@.... > > > Special thanks to Barbara Acello, Ann LeBlanc, and McKenna >for > > > research assistance, as well as CNP patients on the Internet who sent > me > > so > > > many excellent suggestions for additions. -MB- > > > <sep2.gif> > > > Related Articles > > > Commentary: The Practice and Politics of Pain Treatment > > > > > > When Narcotics Work Well > > > > > > <linje.gif> > > > > > > >BC > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > > > >< > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:38 PM > > > >Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Lamar son <lls@...> > > > >> < > > > > >> Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:21 PM > > > >> Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Dennis, > > > >> >Lamar here, > > > >> > > > > >> >I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but > the > > > fact > > > >> is > > > >> >that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters > > > (chemicals > > > >> in > > > >> >the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or >to > >the > > > >> >synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the > >nerves). > > > >Of > > > >> >the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance > > > >> >antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake > > > inhibitors) > > > >> >keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the > >dendrite > > > >(one > > > >> >end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse >or > > > >junction > > > >> >and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good > > > action, > > > >> >and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all > >blanket > > is > > > >> >totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific >about > > how > > > >it > > > >> >works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics >keep > > the > > > >> cell > > > >> >membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve > the > > > >> >bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from >reproducing > >and > > > >the > > > >> >older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no > action > > on > > > >the > > > >> >nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we >should > > not > > > >> take > > > >> >are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those >who > > > >already > > > >> >have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or >without > > CMT, > > > >> >proper medication is essential to life. > > > >> > > > > >> >You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they > >were, > > > >> >perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or >even > >a > > > >> >registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they >gave > > you > > > >the > > > >> >wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation > >that > > > >> >should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are > this > > > way, > > > >> >assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. > >ly, > > > it > > > >> >surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a > > > physician > > > >> >that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were >not > > for > > > >> >medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a > >person > > > >with > > > >> >the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of > > Naturopathic > > > >> >Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non > medical > > > >field. > > > >> > > > >> >>>>>>>>Thanks Lamar, I wanted to comment about this subject as > being > > in > > > >> error, what good would any medications do anyone if this were >true! > > > >Sounds > > > >> like this " DR " is one of whom think all meds are harmful. Or > perhaps > > > that > > > >> person has never felt pain to an extent that they felt they had to > >take > > > >any > > > >> medications for it. Most persons like that have that attitude >about > > > >> medications, if they don't need it then you sure don't need it! >They > > > can't > > > >> imgine another having any pain that is worse then what they have, > > > >LOL~>Becky > > > >> M. > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: Dennis Overskov > > > >> > > > > >> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > > > >> > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and >doc`s. > >The > > > >> doc`s > > > >> >said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said >there > > was > > > >> some > > > >> >very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go > > lets > > > >say > > > >> >the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some > of > > it > > > >> will > > > >> >not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells > > betwin > > > >> the > > > >> >neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > > > >> > < > > > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > > > >> > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It > >took > > > >away > > > >> > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to >head > >and > > > >back > > > >> > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and >all > >is > > > >OK. > > > >> > > > >> > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a >CMT > > > issue, > > > >> > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just > > about > > > >> > > gone. ~ G > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 In a message dated 3/1/2001 12:28:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, lls@... writes: << Lamar here, Throw in my island in Arizona. As a certified Substance Abuse Counselor and one that specialized for 15 years in substance abuse treatment, I can readily say that a physical dependency (which IS a physical addiction) to drugs is worse than a psychological one. Cocaine and cannabis can result in a psychological dependency, but withdrawal from them is very simple---the problem comes from them WANTING the drug again. Opioids and other narcotic drugs as well as benzodiazapines result in a physical need. Stopping the drug suddenly can result in physical withdrawal, seizures, and even potentially death. The body is screaming for the drug >> Lamar, When I worked for Child & Family Services, we had a drug program set up for women with children. One of the women got a high from a needle at the health department when she went for a check up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 Lamar, Please re-read my message and tell me if you think I still owe you an island. My semi-sarcastic statement was saying that addiction is addiction, just as you are saying. I also stated that taking certain medications is the lesser of two evils when it comes to folks living with chronic pain. BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Lamar son <lls@...> < > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > Bill, > Lamar here, > Throw in my island in Arizona. As a certified Substance Abuse Counselor and > one that specialized for 15 years in substance abuse treatment, I can > readily say that a physical dependency (which IS a physical addiction) to > drugs is worse than a psychological one. Cocaine and cannabis can result in > a psychological dependency, but withdrawal from them is very simple---the > problem comes from them WANTING the drug again. Opioids and other narcotic > drugs as well as benzodiazapines result in a physical need. Stopping the > drug suddenly can result in physical withdrawal, seizures, and even > potentially death. The body is screaming for the drug. > > On the other hand, chronic pain patients may not experience the pleasant > reaction to the drug and may not psychologically want it, but their body > does not listen to their mind. The need becomes very real. I can verify > that personally. About eleven years ago I had a severe herniated disc in my > back. I could not walk and was in constant pain to the point I was in > tears. It was so severe that I even had suicidal thoughts. I did not want > to die, but did not want to live in the pain. I spent three weeks in the > hospital in traction and getting PT three times a day. The entire time I > was given Demerol IV at the rate of 1200mg a day. In addition to that I got > IV Valium and Robaxin. The dose of Demerol was 4-6 times the usual dose. > It still did not resolve the pain. I never slept over 15 minutes at a time. > I blacked out from pain several times. Finally, surgery relieved it. I > never wanted the medication, though I did want relief. I got it IV on a > continuous basis and did not request it. After my surgery my post op pain > was nothing compared to what I had experienced. On the fifth day after > surgery I started getting nervous. I then developed tremors, blood pressure > changes, sweating, and was almost " climbing the walls " . I had developed a > physical addiction in three weeks in the hospital. I realized what was > going on and fought it, but my body was telling me to find some medication > even though I was not in pain. I experienced withdrawal. Compared to what > it could have been and others I have seen, it was MINOR withdrawal, but it > was very real. > > The other thing that medical professionals see is people that fake pain for > drugs. I have seen individuals that would go to as many as six emergency > rooms in a day to get drugs for pain. They laugh about how well they can > " fake " it, and many are experts. It is really easy to fake pain. You can > not measure it like you can pulse, blood pressure, or temperature. You can > usually observe their reaction, but as I said many fake it. These are the > ones that sometimes make it difficult for a person that is really in pain to > get proper medication. The pains usually faked the most are headaches, back > pain, and neuropathic pain. I will say that I am not saying that any person > on this list or any person with CMT does fake their pain. Neuropathic pain > is very real, but there are those that fake it. > > The point is that all narcotic drugs are both physically and psychologically > addicting. Each individual differs in the point where they may become > addicted, but the potential is there and very real. With many chronic pain > patients, the risk must be taken for them to function. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill , Digitec Security > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 08:05 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > " CNP patients will develop a physical dependance on opiod drugs, but this > is > not the same thing as addiction, which is an aberrent psychological > state. " > > If any one truly believes this I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell > you. > BC > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > < > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:32 PM > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bill , Digitec Security <BILL@...> > > < > > > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > >Of course medications are designed to benefit mankind and they > certainly > > do, > > >but make no mistake about it, medications cause side effects and do > damage > > >to the body. Most people on long term medication sustain liver and > kidney > > >damage. Our organs can only purge so much. Medications are chemicals. > They > > >are certainly not good for you, however in most cases they are the > lesser > > of > > >two evils. Most pain medications that are worth a darn are also highly > > >addictive. > > >Regards, > > > > http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/hibiscus/152/fact.html > > Contrary to common fears, numerous studies have shown addiction is > extremely > > rare in pain patients taking opioid drugs, even in patients with > histories > > of drug abuse and/or addiction. CNP patients will develop a physical > > dependence on opioid drugs, but this is not the same thing as addiction, > > which is an aberrant psychological state. (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, > 11, > > 13, 14) > > Unrelieved pain has many negative health consequences including, but not > > limited to: increased stress, metabolic rate, blood clotting and water > > retention; delayed healing; hormonal imbalances; impaired immune system > and > > gastrointestinal functioning; decreased mobility; interference with > appetite > > and sleep, and needless suffering. CNP also causes many psychological > > problems, such as feelings of powerlessness, hopelessness, low > self-esteem, > > and depression. (12, 15, 16, 18, 19) > > Undertreatment of CNP often results in suicide. In a recent survey, 50% > of > > CNP patients had inadequate pain relief and had considered suicide to > escape > > the unrelenting agony of their pain. Unrelieved pain also leads to > requests > > for physician-assisted suicide, another indicator of pain's harsh impact > on > > the quality of life of many patients and their families. (7, 8, 13, 14, > 15, > > 16,) > > Discrimination against CNP patients is pervasive in the American health > care > > system. Women, racial/ethnic minorities, children, the elderly, worker's > > compensation patients, and previously disabled patients (e.g., those > with > > cerebral palsy, or who are deaf, blind, amputees, survivors of childhood > > polio, etc.) are at great risk for undertreatment of their pain, even > though > > patients belonging to one or more of these groups are the vast majority > of > > all CNP patients. (2, 13, 17) > > CNP patients with severe, unrelenting pain from permanent structural > damage > > to the neurologic or musculo-skeletal systems are often subjected to > > expensive and unnecessary surgeries and other painful invasive > procedures. > > Arachnoiditis and reflex sympathetic dystrophy are the most common > causes > of > > severe CNP. Other common causes include: post-trauma, adhesions, > systemic > > lupus, headaches, degenerative arthritis, fibromyalgia, and > neuropathies. > > (8, 15, 18, 19) > > <sep2.gif> > > Sources: > > (1) American Chronic Pain Association. " Coping with Chronic Pain. " 1995. > > (2) Brownlee, , and Joannie M. Schrof. " The Quality of Mercy. " > U.S. > > News and World Report, March 17, 1997: 55-57, 60-62, 65, 67. > > (3) Pasero, L., R.N., B.S.N., and Margo McCaffery, R.N., M.S., > > F.A.A.N. " Pain Control. " American Journal of Nursing. Vol. 97, No. 6., > June, > > 1997: 20-21. > > (4) American Academy of Pain Medicine and American Pain Society. " The > Use > of > > Opioids for the Treatment of Chronic Pain. " Clinical Journal of Pain, > Vol. > > 13, March, 1997: 6-8. > > (5) Medina J.L., M.D., and S. Diamond, M.D. " Drug Dependency in Patients > > with Chronic Headache. " Headache, 1977, Vol. 17: 12-14. > > (6) Porter J., M.D. and H. Jick, M.D. " Addiction Rare in Patients > Treated > > with Narcotics. " New England Journal of Medicine 1980, Vol. 302: 123. > > (7) Hitchcock, S., Ph.D., et al. " The Experience of Chronic > > Nonmalignant Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 9, No. > 5, > > July 1994: 312-318. > > (8) Tennant, Forest, M.D., Dr. P.H., and Harvey Rose, M.D. " Guidelines > for > > Opioid Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. " California Task Force > on > > Opiod Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. January 1, 1997. Research > > Center for Dependency Disorders and Chronic Pain Community Health > Projects > > Medical Group, West Covina, CA > > (9) Zenz, M.D., et al. " Long-Term Oral Opioid Therapy in > Patients > > With Chronic Nonmalignant Pain, " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, > > Vol. 7, No. 2, February 1992: 69-77. > > (10) Friedman, P., Ph.D. " Perspectives on the Medical Use of Drugs > of > > Abuse. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl.) > > February 1990: S2-S5. > > (11) Portenoy, K., M.D. " Chronic Opioid Therapy in Nonmalignant > > Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl) > > February 1990: S46-S62. > > (12) Dellasega and Keiser. " Pharmacologic Approaches to Chronic Pain in > the > > Adult. " Nurse Practitioner. Vol. 22, No. 5, May 1997: 20-25. > > (13) Medical Board of California. " Prescribing for Pain Management. " May > 6, > > 1996. > > (14) California Board of Pharmacy. " Health Notes: Pain Management. " > 1996. > > (15) Canine, Craig. " Pain, Profit, and Sweet Relief. " Worth. March, > 1997: > > 79-82, 151-157. > > (16) Liebeskind, J.C. " Pain Can Kill. " Pain, Vol. 44, No. 1, January > 1991: > > 3-4. > > (17) Morse, T.B. " America's War on the Disabled. " Albuquerque, NM: 60's > > Press. > > (18) National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin > Diseases. > > " Scientific Workshop Summary: The Neuroscience and Endocrinology of > > Fibromyalgia. " July 1996. Bethesda, MD. > > (19) , Nadyne, et al. (eds.). " Third Annual Fibromyalgia Research > > Conference. " February 1994. Inland Northwest Fibromyalgia Association. > > Spokane, WA 99206 > > <sep2.gif> > > Fact sheet prepared on July 15, 1997, by Marcia E. Bedard, Ph.D., > > Professor of Women's Studies, California State University, Fresno, CA > > 93740-0078. It may be reproduced in print or electronic form by any > > individual or group for educational purposes. Comments may be sent to > the > > author at the above address or by e-mail to: > marcia_bedard@.... > > Special thanks to Barbara Acello, Ann LeBlanc, and McKenna for > > research assistance, as well as CNP patients on the Internet who sent me > so > > many excellent suggestions for additions. -MB- > > <sep2.gif> > > Related Articles > > Commentary: The Practice and Politics of Pain Treatment > > > > When Narcotics Work Well > > > > <linje.gif> > > > > >BC > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > > >< > > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:38 PM > > >Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Lamar son <lls@...> > > >> < > > > >> Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:21 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > >> > > >> > > >> >Dennis, > > >> >Lamar here, > > >> > > > >> >I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the > > fact > > >> is > > >> >that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters > > (chemicals > > >> in > > >> >the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to > the > > >> >synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the > nerves). > > >Of > > >> >the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance > > >> >antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake > > inhibitors) > > >> >keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the > dendrite > > >(one > > >> >end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or > > >junction > > >> >and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good > > action, > > >> >and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all > blanket > is > > >> >totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about > how > > >it > > >> >works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep > the > > >> cell > > >> >membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the > > >> >bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing > and > > >the > > >> >older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action > on > > >the > > >> >nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should > not > > >> take > > >> >are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who > > >already > > >> >have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without > CMT, > > >> >proper medication is essential to life. > > >> > > > >> >You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they > were, > > >> >perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even > a > > >> >registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave > you > > >the > > >> >wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation > that > > >> >should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this > > way, > > >> >assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. > ly, > > it > > >> >surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a > > physician > > >> >that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not > for > > >> >medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a > person > > >with > > >> >the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of > Naturopathic > > >> >Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical > > >field. > > >> > > >> >>>>>>>>Thanks Lamar, I wanted to comment about this subject as being > in > > >> error, what good would any medications do anyone if this were true! > > >Sounds > > >> like this " DR " is one of whom think all meds are harmful. Or perhaps > > that > > >> person has never felt pain to an extent that they felt they had to > take > > >any > > >> medications for it. Most persons like that have that attitude about > > >> medications, if they don't need it then you sure don't need it! They > > can't > > >> imgine another having any pain that is worse then what they have, > > >LOL~>Becky > > >> M. > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: Dennis Overskov > > >> > > > >> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > > >> > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. > The > > >> doc`s > > >> >said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there > was > > >> some > > >> >very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go > lets > > >say > > >> >the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of > it > > >> will > > >> >not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells > betwin > > >> the > > >> >neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > > >> > < > > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > > >> > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It > took > > >away > > >> > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head > and > > >back > > >> > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all > is > > >OK. > > >> > > >> > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT > > issue, > > >> > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just > about > > >> > > gone. ~ G > > >> > > > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 Bill, Lamar here, Guess I was not clear. I fully understood what you said and agreed. I said to throw in my Arizona Island with your bridge to for those that believed the statement. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill , Digitec Security Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 03:07 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain Lamar, Please re-read my message and tell me if you think I still owe you an island. My semi-sarcastic statement was saying that addiction is addiction, just as you are saying. I also stated that taking certain medications is the lesser of two evils when it comes to folks living with chronic pain. BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Lamar son <lls@...> < > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > Bill, > Lamar here, > Throw in my island in Arizona. As a certified Substance Abuse Counselor and > one that specialized for 15 years in substance abuse treatment, I can > readily say that a physical dependency (which IS a physical addiction) to > drugs is worse than a psychological one. Cocaine and cannabis can result in > a psychological dependency, but withdrawal from them is very simple---the > problem comes from them WANTING the drug again. Opioids and other narcotic > drugs as well as benzodiazapines result in a physical need. Stopping the > drug suddenly can result in physical withdrawal, seizures, and even > potentially death. The body is screaming for the drug. > > On the other hand, chronic pain patients may not experience the pleasant > reaction to the drug and may not psychologically want it, but their body > does not listen to their mind. The need becomes very real. I can verify > that personally. About eleven years ago I had a severe herniated disc in my > back. I could not walk and was in constant pain to the point I was in > tears. It was so severe that I even had suicidal thoughts. I did not want > to die, but did not want to live in the pain. I spent three weeks in the > hospital in traction and getting PT three times a day. The entire time I > was given Demerol IV at the rate of 1200mg a day. In addition to that I got > IV Valium and Robaxin. The dose of Demerol was 4-6 times the usual dose. > It still did not resolve the pain. I never slept over 15 minutes at a time. > I blacked out from pain several times. Finally, surgery relieved it. I > never wanted the medication, though I did want relief. I got it IV on a > continuous basis and did not request it. After my surgery my post op pain > was nothing compared to what I had experienced. On the fifth day after > surgery I started getting nervous. I then developed tremors, blood pressure > changes, sweating, and was almost " climbing the walls " . I had developed a > physical addiction in three weeks in the hospital. I realized what was > going on and fought it, but my body was telling me to find some medication > even though I was not in pain. I experienced withdrawal. Compared to what > it could have been and others I have seen, it was MINOR withdrawal, but it > was very real. > > The other thing that medical professionals see is people that fake pain for > drugs. I have seen individuals that would go to as many as six emergency > rooms in a day to get drugs for pain. They laugh about how well they can > " fake " it, and many are experts. It is really easy to fake pain. You can > not measure it like you can pulse, blood pressure, or temperature. You can > usually observe their reaction, but as I said many fake it. These are the > ones that sometimes make it difficult for a person that is really in pain to > get proper medication. The pains usually faked the most are headaches, back > pain, and neuropathic pain. I will say that I am not saying that any person > on this list or any person with CMT does fake their pain. Neuropathic pain > is very real, but there are those that fake it. > > The point is that all narcotic drugs are both physically and psychologically > addicting. Each individual differs in the point where they may become > addicted, but the potential is there and very real. With many chronic pain > patients, the risk must be taken for them to function. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill , Digitec Security > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 08:05 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > " CNP patients will develop a physical dependance on opiod drugs, but this > is > not the same thing as addiction, which is an aberrent psychological > state. " > > If any one truly believes this I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell > you. > BC > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > < > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:32 PM > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bill , Digitec Security <BILL@...> > > < > > > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > >Of course medications are designed to benefit mankind and they > certainly > > do, > > >but make no mistake about it, medications cause side effects and do > damage > > >to the body. Most people on long term medication sustain liver and > kidney > > >damage. Our organs can only purge so much. Medications are chemicals. > They > > >are certainly not good for you, however in most cases they are the > lesser > > of > > >two evils. Most pain medications that are worth a darn are also highly > > >addictive. > > >Regards, > > > > http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/hibiscus/152/fact.html > > Contrary to common fears, numerous studies have shown addiction is > extremely > > rare in pain patients taking opioid drugs, even in patients with > histories > > of drug abuse and/or addiction. CNP patients will develop a physical > > dependence on opioid drugs, but this is not the same thing as addiction, > > which is an aberrant psychological state. (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, > 11, > > 13, 14) > > Unrelieved pain has many negative health consequences including, but not > > limited to: increased stress, metabolic rate, blood clotting and water > > retention; delayed healing; hormonal imbalances; impaired immune system > and > > gastrointestinal functioning; decreased mobility; interference with > appetite > > and sleep, and needless suffering. CNP also causes many psychological > > problems, such as feelings of powerlessness, hopelessness, low > self-esteem, > > and depression. (12, 15, 16, 18, 19) > > Undertreatment of CNP often results in suicide. In a recent survey, 50% > of > > CNP patients had inadequate pain relief and had considered suicide to > escape > > the unrelenting agony of their pain. Unrelieved pain also leads to > requests > > for physician-assisted suicide, another indicator of pain's harsh impact > on > > the quality of life of many patients and their families. (7, 8, 13, 14, > 15, > > 16,) > > Discrimination against CNP patients is pervasive in the American health > care > > system. Women, racial/ethnic minorities, children, the elderly, worker's > > compensation patients, and previously disabled patients (e.g., those > with > > cerebral palsy, or who are deaf, blind, amputees, survivors of childhood > > polio, etc.) are at great risk for undertreatment of their pain, even > though > > patients belonging to one or more of these groups are the vast majority > of > > all CNP patients. (2, 13, 17) > > CNP patients with severe, unrelenting pain from permanent structural > damage > > to the neurologic or musculo-skeletal systems are often subjected to > > expensive and unnecessary surgeries and other painful invasive > procedures. > > Arachnoiditis and reflex sympathetic dystrophy are the most common > causes > of > > severe CNP. Other common causes include: post-trauma, adhesions, > systemic > > lupus, headaches, degenerative arthritis, fibromyalgia, and > neuropathies. > > (8, 15, 18, 19) > > <sep2.gif> > > Sources: > > (1) American Chronic Pain Association. " Coping with Chronic Pain. " 1995. > > (2) Brownlee, , and Joannie M. Schrof. " The Quality of Mercy. " > U.S. > > News and World Report, March 17, 1997: 55-57, 60-62, 65, 67. > > (3) Pasero, L., R.N., B.S.N., and Margo McCaffery, R.N., M.S., > > F.A.A.N. " Pain Control. " American Journal of Nursing. Vol. 97, No. 6., > June, > > 1997: 20-21. > > (4) American Academy of Pain Medicine and American Pain Society. " The > Use > of > > Opioids for the Treatment of Chronic Pain. " Clinical Journal of Pain, > Vol. > > 13, March, 1997: 6-8. > > (5) Medina J.L., M.D., and S. Diamond, M.D. " Drug Dependency in Patients > > with Chronic Headache. " Headache, 1977, Vol. 17: 12-14. > > (6) Porter J., M.D. and H. Jick, M.D. " Addiction Rare in Patients > Treated > > with Narcotics. " New England Journal of Medicine 1980, Vol. 302: 123. > > (7) Hitchcock, S., Ph.D., et al. " The Experience of Chronic > > Nonmalignant Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 9, No. > 5, > > July 1994: 312-318. > > (8) Tennant, Forest, M.D., Dr. P.H., and Harvey Rose, M.D. " Guidelines > for > > Opioid Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. " California Task Force > on > > Opiod Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. January 1, 1997. Research > > Center for Dependency Disorders and Chronic Pain Community Health > Projects > > Medical Group, West Covina, CA > > (9) Zenz, M.D., et al. " Long-Term Oral Opioid Therapy in > Patients > > With Chronic Nonmalignant Pain, " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, > > Vol. 7, No. 2, February 1992: 69-77. > > (10) Friedman, P., Ph.D. " Perspectives on the Medical Use of Drugs > of > > Abuse. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl.) > > February 1990: S2-S5. > > (11) Portenoy, K., M.D. " Chronic Opioid Therapy in Nonmalignant > > Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl) > > February 1990: S46-S62. > > (12) Dellasega and Keiser. " Pharmacologic Approaches to Chronic Pain in > the > > Adult. " Nurse Practitioner. Vol. 22, No. 5, May 1997: 20-25. > > (13) Medical Board of California. " Prescribing for Pain Management. " May > 6, > > 1996. > > (14) California Board of Pharmacy. " Health Notes: Pain Management. " > 1996. > > (15) Canine, Craig. " Pain, Profit, and Sweet Relief. " Worth. March, > 1997: > > 79-82, 151-157. > > (16) Liebeskind, J.C. " Pain Can Kill. " Pain, Vol. 44, No. 1, January > 1991: > > 3-4. > > (17) Morse, T.B. " America's War on the Disabled. " Albuquerque, NM: 60's > > Press. > > (18) National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin > Diseases. > > " Scientific Workshop Summary: The Neuroscience and Endocrinology of > > Fibromyalgia. " July 1996. Bethesda, MD. > > (19) , Nadyne, et al. (eds.). " Third Annual Fibromyalgia Research > > Conference. " February 1994. Inland Northwest Fibromyalgia Association. > > Spokane, WA 99206 > > <sep2.gif> > > Fact sheet prepared on July 15, 1997, by Marcia E. Bedard, Ph.D., > > Professor of Women's Studies, California State University, Fresno, CA > > 93740-0078. It may be reproduced in print or electronic form by any > > individual or group for educational purposes. Comments may be sent to > the > > author at the above address or by e-mail to: > marcia_bedard@.... > > Special thanks to Barbara Acello, Ann LeBlanc, and McKenna for > > research assistance, as well as CNP patients on the Internet who sent me > so > > many excellent suggestions for additions. -MB- > > <sep2.gif> > > Related Articles > > Commentary: The Practice and Politics of Pain Treatment > > > > When Narcotics Work Well > > > > <linje.gif> > > > > >BC > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > > >< > > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:38 PM > > >Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Lamar son <lls@...> > > >> < > > > >> Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:21 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > >> > > >> > > >> >Dennis, > > >> >Lamar here, > > >> > > > >> >I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but the > > fact > > >> is > > >> >that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters > > (chemicals > > >> in > > >> >the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or to > the > > >> >synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the > nerves). > > >Of > > >> >the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For instance > > >> >antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake > > inhibitors) > > >> >keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the > dendrite > > >(one > > >> >end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse or > > >junction > > >> >and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the good > > action, > > >> >and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all > blanket > is > > >> >totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific about > how > > >it > > >> >works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics keep > the > > >> cell > > >> >membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve the > > >> >bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from reproducing > and > > >the > > >> >older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no action > on > > >the > > >> >nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we should > not > > >> take > > >> >are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those who > > >already > > >> >have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or without > CMT, > > >> >proper medication is essential to life. > > >> > > > >> >You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they > were, > > >> >perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or even > a > > >> >registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they gave > you > > >the > > >> >wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an explanation > that > > >> >should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are this > > way, > > >> >assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. > ly, > > it > > >> >surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a > > physician > > >> >that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were not > for > > >> >medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a > person > > >with > > >> >the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of > Naturopathic > > >> >Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non medical > > >field. > > >> > > >> >>>>>>>>Thanks Lamar, I wanted to comment about this subject as being > in > > >> error, what good would any medications do anyone if this were true! > > >Sounds > > >> like this " DR " is one of whom think all meds are harmful. Or perhaps > > that > > >> person has never felt pain to an extent that they felt they had to > take > > >any > > >> medications for it. Most persons like that have that attitude about > > >> medications, if they don't need it then you sure don't need it! They > > can't > > >> imgine another having any pain that is worse then what they have, > > >LOL~>Becky > > >> M. > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: Dennis Overskov > > >> > > > >> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > > >> > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and doc`s. > The > > >> doc`s > > >> >said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said there > was > > >> some > > >> >very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go > lets > > >say > > >> >the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin some of > it > > >> will > > >> >not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the cells > betwin > > >> the > > >> >neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > > >> > < > > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > > >> > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. It > took > > >away > > >> > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to head > and > > >back > > >> > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and all > is > > >OK. > > >> > > >> > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a CMT > > issue, > > >> > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is just > about > > >> > > gone. ~ G > > >> > > > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 Lamar, I present my posterior for the big boot, OK folks now I have a bridge and an island for sale. BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Lamar son <lls@...> < > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > Bill, > Lamar here, > > Guess I was not clear. I fully understood what you said and agreed. I said > to throw in my Arizona Island with your bridge to for those that believed > the statement. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill , Digitec Security > > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 03:07 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > Lamar, > Please re-read my message and tell me if you think I still owe you an > island. My semi-sarcastic statement was saying that addiction is > addiction, > just as you are saying. I also stated that taking certain medications is > the > lesser of two evils when it comes to folks living with chronic pain. > BC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lamar son <lls@...> > < > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > Bill, > > Lamar here, > > Throw in my island in Arizona. As a certified Substance Abuse Counselor > and > > one that specialized for 15 years in substance abuse treatment, I can > > readily say that a physical dependency (which IS a physical addiction) > to > > drugs is worse than a psychological one. Cocaine and cannabis can > result > in > > a psychological dependency, but withdrawal from them is very > simple---the > > problem comes from them WANTING the drug again. Opioids and other > narcotic > > drugs as well as benzodiazapines result in a physical need. Stopping > the > > drug suddenly can result in physical withdrawal, seizures, and even > > potentially death. The body is screaming for the drug. > > > > On the other hand, chronic pain patients may not experience the pleasant > > reaction to the drug and may not psychologically want it, but their body > > does not listen to their mind. The need becomes very real. I can > verify > > that personally. About eleven years ago I had a severe herniated disc > in > my > > back. I could not walk and was in constant pain to the point I was in > > tears. It was so severe that I even had suicidal thoughts. I did not > want > > to die, but did not want to live in the pain. I spent three weeks in > the > > hospital in traction and getting PT three times a day. The entire time > I > > was given Demerol IV at the rate of 1200mg a day. In addition to that I > got > > IV Valium and Robaxin. The dose of Demerol was 4-6 times the usual > dose. > > It still did not resolve the pain. I never slept over 15 minutes at a > time. > > I blacked out from pain several times. Finally, surgery relieved it. > I > > never wanted the medication, though I did want relief. I got it IV on a > > continuous basis and did not request it. After my surgery my post op > pain > > was nothing compared to what I had experienced. On the fifth day after > > surgery I started getting nervous. I then developed tremors, blood > pressure > > changes, sweating, and was almost " climbing the walls " . I had developed > a > > physical addiction in three weeks in the hospital. I realized what was > > going on and fought it, but my body was telling me to find some > medication > > even though I was not in pain. I experienced withdrawal. Compared to > what > > it could have been and others I have seen, it was MINOR withdrawal, but > it > > was very real. > > > > The other thing that medical professionals see is people that fake pain > for > > drugs. I have seen individuals that would go to as many as six > emergency > > rooms in a day to get drugs for pain. They laugh about how well they > can > > " fake " it, and many are experts. It is really easy to fake pain. You > can > > not measure it like you can pulse, blood pressure, or temperature. You > can > > usually observe their reaction, but as I said many fake it. These are > the > > ones that sometimes make it difficult for a person that is really in > pain > to > > get proper medication. The pains usually faked the most are headaches, > back > > pain, and neuropathic pain. I will say that I am not saying that any > person > > on this list or any person with CMT does fake their pain. Neuropathic > pain > > is very real, but there are those that fake it. > > > > The point is that all narcotic drugs are both physically and > psychologically > > addicting. Each individual differs in the point where they may become > > addicted, but the potential is there and very real. With many chronic > pain > > patients, the risk must be taken for them to function. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill , Digitec Security > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 08:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > " CNP patients will develop a physical dependance on opiod drugs, but > this > > is > > not the same thing as addiction, which is an aberrent psychological > > state. " > > > > If any one truly believes this I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to > sell > > you. > > BC > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > > < > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:32 PM > > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bill , Digitec Security <BILL@...> > > > < > > > > Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:10 PM > > > Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > > > > >Of course medications are designed to benefit mankind and they > > certainly > > > do, > > > >but make no mistake about it, medications cause side effects and do > > damage > > > >to the body. Most people on long term medication sustain liver and > > kidney > > > >damage. Our organs can only purge so much. Medications are > chemicals. > > They > > > >are certainly not good for you, however in most cases they are the > > lesser > > > of > > > >two evils. Most pain medications that are worth a darn are also > highly > > > >addictive. > > > >Regards, > > > > > > http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/hibiscus/152/fact.html > > > Contrary to common fears, numerous studies have shown addiction is > > extremely > > > rare in pain patients taking opioid drugs, even in patients with > > histories > > > of drug abuse and/or addiction. CNP patients will develop a physical > > > dependence on opioid drugs, but this is not the same thing as > addiction, > > > which is an aberrant psychological state. (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, > 10, > > 11, > > > 13, 14) > > > Unrelieved pain has many negative health consequences including, but > not > > > limited to: increased stress, metabolic rate, blood clotting and > water > > > retention; delayed healing; hormonal imbalances; impaired immune > system > > and > > > gastrointestinal functioning; decreased mobility; interference with > > appetite > > > and sleep, and needless suffering. CNP also causes many > psychological > > > problems, such as feelings of powerlessness, hopelessness, low > > self-esteem, > > > and depression. (12, 15, 16, 18, 19) > > > Undertreatment of CNP often results in suicide. In a recent survey, > 50% > > of > > > CNP patients had inadequate pain relief and had considered suicide > to > > escape > > > the unrelenting agony of their pain. Unrelieved pain also leads to > > requests > > > for physician-assisted suicide, another indicator of pain's harsh > impact > > on > > > the quality of life of many patients and their families. (7, 8, 13, > 14, > > 15, > > > 16,) > > > Discrimination against CNP patients is pervasive in the American > health > > care > > > system. Women, racial/ethnic minorities, children, the elderly, > worker's > > > compensation patients, and previously disabled patients (e.g., those > > with > > > cerebral palsy, or who are deaf, blind, amputees, survivors of > childhood > > > polio, etc.) are at great risk for undertreatment of their pain, > even > > though > > > patients belonging to one or more of these groups are the vast > majority > > of > > > all CNP patients. (2, 13, 17) > > > CNP patients with severe, unrelenting pain from permanent structural > > damage > > > to the neurologic or musculo-skeletal systems are often subjected to > > > expensive and unnecessary surgeries and other painful invasive > > procedures. > > > Arachnoiditis and reflex sympathetic dystrophy are the most common > > causes > > of > > > severe CNP. Other common causes include: post-trauma, adhesions, > > systemic > > > lupus, headaches, degenerative arthritis, fibromyalgia, and > > neuropathies. > > > (8, 15, 18, 19) > > > <sep2.gif> > > > Sources: > > > (1) American Chronic Pain Association. " Coping with Chronic Pain. " > 1995. > > > (2) Brownlee, , and Joannie M. Schrof. " The Quality of > Mercy. " > > U.S. > > > News and World Report, March 17, 1997: 55-57, 60-62, 65, 67. > > > (3) Pasero, L., R.N., B.S.N., and Margo McCaffery, R.N., > M.S., > > > F.A.A.N. " Pain Control. " American Journal of Nursing. Vol. 97, No. > 6., > > June, > > > 1997: 20-21. > > > (4) American Academy of Pain Medicine and American Pain Society. > " The > > Use > > of > > > Opioids for the Treatment of Chronic Pain. " Clinical Journal of > Pain, > > Vol. > > > 13, March, 1997: 6-8. > > > (5) Medina J.L., M.D., and S. Diamond, M.D. " Drug Dependency in > Patients > > > with Chronic Headache. " Headache, 1977, Vol. 17: 12-14. > > > (6) Porter J., M.D. and H. Jick, M.D. " Addiction Rare in Patients > > Treated > > > with Narcotics. " New England Journal of Medicine 1980, Vol. 302: > 123. > > > (7) Hitchcock, S., Ph.D., et al. " The Experience of Chronic > > > Nonmalignant Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 9, > No. > > 5, > > > July 1994: 312-318. > > > (8) Tennant, Forest, M.D., Dr. P.H., and Harvey Rose, M.D. > " Guidelines > > for > > > Opioid Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. " California Task > Force > > on > > > Opiod Treatment of Stage III Intractable Pain. January 1, 1997. > Research > > > Center for Dependency Disorders and Chronic Pain Community Health > > Projects > > > Medical Group, West Covina, CA > > > (9) Zenz, M.D., et al. " Long-Term Oral Opioid Therapy in > > Patients > > > With Chronic Nonmalignant Pain, " Journal of Pain and Symptom > Management, > > > Vol. 7, No. 2, February 1992: 69-77. > > > (10) Friedman, P., Ph.D. " Perspectives on the Medical Use of > Drugs > > of > > > Abuse. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 > (Suppl.) > > > February 1990: S2-S5. > > > (11) Portenoy, K., M.D. " Chronic Opioid Therapy in > Nonmalignant > > > Pain. " Journal of Pain and Symptom Management, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Suppl) > > > February 1990: S46-S62. > > > (12) Dellasega and Keiser. " Pharmacologic Approaches to Chronic Pain > in > > the > > > Adult. " Nurse Practitioner. Vol. 22, No. 5, May 1997: 20-25. > > > (13) Medical Board of California. " Prescribing for Pain Management. " > May > > 6, > > > 1996. > > > (14) California Board of Pharmacy. " Health Notes: Pain Management. " > > 1996. > > > (15) Canine, Craig. " Pain, Profit, and Sweet Relief. " Worth. March, > > 1997: > > > 79-82, 151-157. > > > (16) Liebeskind, J.C. " Pain Can Kill. " Pain, Vol. 44, No. 1, January > > 1991: > > > 3-4. > > > (17) Morse, T.B. " America's War on the Disabled. " Albuquerque, NM: > 60's > > > Press. > > > (18) National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin > > Diseases. > > > " Scientific Workshop Summary: The Neuroscience and Endocrinology of > > > Fibromyalgia. " July 1996. Bethesda, MD. > > > (19) , Nadyne, et al. (eds.). " Third Annual Fibromyalgia > Research > > > Conference. " February 1994. Inland Northwest Fibromyalgia > Association. > > > Spokane, WA 99206 > > > <sep2.gif> > > > Fact sheet prepared on July 15, 1997, by Marcia E. Bedard, > Ph.D., > > > Professor of Women's Studies, California State University, Fresno, > CA > > > 93740-0078. It may be reproduced in print or electronic form by any > > > individual or group for educational purposes. Comments may be sent > to > > the > > > author at the above address or by e-mail to: > > marcia_bedard@.... > > > Special thanks to Barbara Acello, Ann LeBlanc, and McKenna > for > > > research assistance, as well as CNP patients on the Internet who > sent > me > > so > > > many excellent suggestions for additions. -MB- > > > <sep2.gif> > > > Related Articles > > > Commentary: The Practice and Politics of Pain Treatment > > > > > > When Narcotics Work Well > > > > > > <linje.gif> > > > > > > >BC > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: Maxwell <rmax@...> > > > >< > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:38 PM > > > >Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Lamar son <lls@...> > > > >> < > > > > >> Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:21 PM > > > >> Subject: Re: [] treating resistent pain > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Dennis, > > > >> >Lamar here, > > > >> > > > > >> >I have no idea what sort of physician gave this information, but > the > > > fact > > > >> is > > > >> >that very few medications do anything to the neurotransmitters > > > (chemicals > > > >> in > > > >> >the body that carry the nerve impulse from one to the other) or > to > > the > > > >> >synapse (the " spark gap " between the dendrite and axon of the > > nerves). > > > >Of > > > >> >the ones that do, this is often the desired action. For > instance > > > >> >antidepressants known as SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake > > > inhibitors) > > > >> >keep the neurotransmitter sratonin from re absorbing into the > > dendrite > > > >(one > > > >> >end of the nerve). This increases the seratonin in the synapse > or > > > >junction > > > >> >and actually increases the flow of the impulse. That is the > good > > > action, > > > >> >and is what is wanted. To make a banquet statement about all > > blanket > > is > > > >> >totally wrong. The action of any medication is very specific > about > > how > > > >it > > > >> >works and what the purpose is. For instance, many antibiotics > keep > > the > > > >> cell > > > >> >membrane of the bad bacteria from absorbing nutrients and starve > the > > > >> >bacteria to death. Other types keep the bacteria from > reproducing > > and > > > >the > > > >> >older ones die out of " old age " in a few days. These have no > action > > on > > > >the > > > >> >nerves at all. The medications that are on the list that we > should > > not > > > >> take > > > >> >are neurotoxic. They can damage the nerve itself and for those > who > > > >already > > > >> >have damaged nerves this can be very bad. For many with or > without > > CMT, > > > >> >proper medication is essential to life. > > > >> > > > > >> >You did not say that the " doc " was a medical doctor, but if they > > were, > > > >> >perhaps you should talk with another one, or a pharmacist, or > even > > a > > > >> >registered Nurse trained in medication education. Either they > gave > > you > > > >the > > > >> >wrong information, or did not go into the depth of an > explanation > > that > > > >> >should have been done for you to understand. Often doctors are > this > > > way, > > > >> >assuming that you understand all they are trying to express. > > ly, > > > it > > > >> >surprises me if this was a medical doctor. I have never seen a > > > physician > > > >> >that said all medication was bad for us. After all, if it were > not > > for > > > >> >medication, doctors could not practice. It sounds more like a > > person > > > >with > > > >> >the title " Dr. " that is not a physician, like a " Doctor of > > Naturopathic > > > >> >Medicine " , some chiropractors, someone with a Ph.D. in a non > medical > > > >field. > > > >> > > > >> >>>>>>>>Thanks Lamar, I wanted to comment about this subject as > being > > in > > > >> error, what good would any medications do anyone if this were > true! > > > >Sounds > > > >> like this " DR " is one of whom think all meds are harmful. Or > perhaps > > > that > > > >> person has never felt pain to an extent that they felt they had > to > > take > > > >any > > > >> medications for it. Most persons like that have that attitude > about > > > >> medications, if they don't need it then you sure don't need it! > They > > > can't > > > >> imgine another having any pain that is worse then what they have, > > > >LOL~>Becky > > > >> M. > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: Dennis Overskov > > > >> > > > > >> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 05:56 PM > > > >> > Subject: Sv: [] treating resistent pain > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > I have just been on a weekend with other ppl with CMT and > doc`s. > > The > > > >> doc`s > > > >> >said THAT all medicin has a bad effect on nerves....they said > there > > was > > > >> some > > > >> >very small parts betwin the nerves and the places they should go > > lets > > > >say > > > >> >the part wicth makes a finger bends) and if you take medicin > some > of > > it > > > >> will > > > >> >not hit the spot where it was supose to go but will hit the > cells > > betwin > > > >> the > > > >> >neves and the target and cause more damage to the cells. > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: Gretchen Glick <liliwigg@...> > > > >> > < > > > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:08 PM > > > >> > Subject: [] treating resistent pain > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Hello Liz, well Neurontin did help me, took it for 1 year. > It > > took > > > >away > > > >> > > the shooting, electrical type jolts pulsating from toe to > head > > and > > > >back > > > >> > > again. Now I am back taking Elavil for pain maintenance and > all > > is > > > >OK. > > > >> > > > >> > > No nerve pain. I am taking Vioxx now but that is not for a > CMT > > > issue, > > > >> > > but an inflammation. Three months of it and that pain is > just > > about > > > >> > > gone. ~ G > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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