Questionable credentials and ethics-important to us all

[Guest guest]

I apologize for the font problems- if youre interested in a cleaner

and clearer copy I will be happy to email it to you. I didnt realize

that when you type a post by email then send it here,the apostrophes

and other grammar marks get scrambled into code.

If any of you know how to prevent this let me know as I will need to

post this message elsewhere!!

Sorry

F.

[Guest guest]

I couldn't agree with you more. We should be very careful to check

credentials from anyone we get medical advice from. A Certified

Natural Health Provider needs very little education and is a step

down from a ND. It amazes me that some states like New Jersey will

allow a CNHP to retake a class to keep their certification. I needed

more education to become a science teacher and more education hours

to be recertified as a teacher than a CNHP does. And I do not

dispense medical advice that affects the health of anyone.

Amoeba

>

> Pardon the length--there is a LOT of important info:

>

> After helping a few to find reputable practitioners to undo bad

health advice, I was placed into a position of asking for and looking

into the credentials/capability of someone who may have good

intentions without the necessary training to do so safely.

>

> Even good hearted people must be accountable. Meaning well and

hoping to help others is NOT ENOUGH when lives are at risk. If you

TRULY want to help others you take the TIME to go to school and PASS

exams and become qualified. There are NO shortcuts for

accountability! One such health consultant who is refusing to

disclose qualifications has recently been the topic of posts.

>

> I am NOT against all things not medical-In my 17 plus years with

Lyme I myself have sought the advice of spiritual healers. I have

paid for and accepted advice from native healers, spiritualists,

homeopaths, nutritionists, the great Dr Atkins himself-before his

protein diet craze -at his NYC Complementary Med Clinic; and many

others. I have also worked with many whose gifts can only be

described as G-d Given. I truly believe that on this Earth there are

more things than we as mortals can yet explain.

>

> In ALL of those cases not ONE has tried to hide behind shady

alphabet soup after their names, not ONE has denied access to their

training/education or lack thereof. And not ONE has referred me to

their LAWYER in a SARCASTIC email as this “consultant†has done

in response to a request of her to verify her education, training and

certification. Email me and I will be happy to FWD her email response

to you.

>

> I have uncovered much interesting information. I will share this

with you and leave you to make your own choices. I pray you will all

view this with open minds, and NOT simply believe as many have

emailed me to say-that being good Christian women ( or men) is all

the credentials necessary to give dangerous medical advice and to

PROFIT off of it. More than money, this is an issue of putting others

at RISK. And preying upon the desperate and less informed--a SIN of

great magnitude in my opinion.

>

> -If health advisors claim to work with LLMDs or other licensed

persons, ASK which ones and CALL to make sure. Then ask their

capacity--will they be medically/ethically responsible for the

advisor's suggestions? As of today 3 NJ LLMDs claim to have NO

knowledge of one person’s claims to this effect. I will be asking

others.

>

> -CNHP- www.cnhp.org †" the TOTAL number of seminar hours to use

those initials is less than that of one single college class in a

semester. Phone them, they will gleefully tell you they ASSUME their

students attend for their OWN education or if they aspire to be a

consultant then they ASSUME previous education like nursing or

medical assistantship. No need to cover the basics like medical

physiology. They will also gleefully outline how they will help you

to run a business so that you wont have pitfalls of legality or

ethics ( my interpretation = ‘how to get around the system’).

> To continue to use those letters you have to either PAY to take one

seminar/yr called a capstone, OR simply sit in again on one you’ve

already taken. Curriculum like " How to run your health business "

counts! They do NOT claim to keep records of who takes which class.

They cannot tell you if someone takes the same thing over and over

while letting others assume an advanced level. They use words

like " practicum " and " capstone " to assume a false level of

credibility. I have found NOT ONE decent medical group that

recognizes this certification. It takes even less to be an

“iridologistâ€. Some ARE trained and have been taught in live

clinical settings from experienced professionals†" others alas have

not been. ASK your advisor what training she has had. Help the REAL

and competent health people keep their credibility.

>

> -AANP- the national organization for Naturopathic Doctors.

www.naturopathic.org A phone call to them verifies that no one is an

“almost ND†and no one will advertise “ ND Candidate†without

also specifying the school in attendance, the date of expected grad

AND the mentor theyre doing clinical training with. They are VERY

concerned about those who take a few correspondence or non-accredited

classes and attach ND†" even with a modifier like

‘almostâ€â€ " without disclosing exactly the accreditation behind

it. NJ does NOT yet license ND’s and so AANP is very active with

insuring credibility here. What I got from them: Many know that some

State Medical Boards cant sanction them due to the lack of authority

and so in NJ ( and other states) its too easy to be a quack or

“almost NDâ€.

> ALWAYS ask what school, how many years, under which ND they did

clinical training.

> ND is NOT just a title: its a degree, its means a level of

instruction has been done and passed. It means a basic MINIMUM

competence--without which you should NOT listen to advice!

>

> - If a person lists speaking at another group’s conference as

proof of capability†" CALL or email the group and ask if they’ve

bothered to check credentials. The GAME out there is to get invited,

speak and then list that as proof of ability. You may have to force

the group to even ask for proof of credentials. Many happily accept

offers from speakers and ASSUME theyre credible! Often,after

checking, the person is UNinvited! Don’t accept a list of

references or a bloated CV ( like a resume but detailed).Make sure it

checks out.

>

> WHY BOTHER??? its your life at stake--isnt it worth the bother???

Why should we have to?? because of those out there who try to beat

the system and call themselves experts or who claim all they want to

do is HELP people and because of their supporters/followers who would

rather not have " proof " that the person they rely upon isnt what she

claims to be!

>

> -DO NOT alter treatment as suggested by ANYone online or by phone

or in person especially if that person claims to be a

“professional†and yet cannot/will not provide ample evidence of

education, and without first checking with really accredited

professionals. Drs make mistakes, but under- educated, non-

professionals make MORE of them and far more dangerous !! Especially

if they’ve convinced themselves and others that ND is “just a

title†to quote that particular consultant. Especially if they feel

that they are above the law and above the ethics of having†" like the

rest of us†" to be educated/trained/accredited before dispensing

medical advice or supplements or devices. Saying its " just a title "

insults the REAL ND's who took the time and cared enough to get it!

This is MORE than just a bit of helpful advice from a health food

store clerk! and more than a suggestion from neighbor or fellow Lymie-

--at least then you KNOW its coming from a non-professional.

>

> -Nutritional counseling is also a bit unregulated in NJ. ALWAYS ask

how much training, where and for how long. Even some MD’s in NJ

parcel out nutritional advice under the safety umbrella of their MD

license and yet when I asked one particular Dr ( author of many

books) about his nutritional knowledge he replied “I read a

lotâ€...well, so do I...that doesn’t make me a nutritional expert.

At least in his case he has an MD and the medical board can step in

if necessary.

>

> - if you have or suspect you have a “neurodegenerativeâ€

illness, do NOT accept the advice of under qualified individuals,

even if others claim to have been helped by them and even if others

vouch for their “characterâ€. ASK to see and then call to verify

all credentials!! Even if it takes 6 visit to different Drs.before

finding a compassionate and knowledgeable one. GO to a licensed

individual, the nervous system is very complex and demands a

practitioner with more training than just “speaking with 8,000

Lymiesâ€.

>

> -If you see the words “educated thousands world wide†ask

HOW†" if its simply because she can go onto a website these days and

post automatically to the world and read people’s posts from all

over that does NOT add to her credibility. Being invited by

accredited institutions, universities, science and medicine

groups†" maybe THAT’S educating world wide. [iF they’ve bothered

to check creds]. Alas they dont often check either! I have NOT seen

one of those places invite this person. Ive taught foreign pre-med

students..does that mean Ive educated worldwide too??( smile)

>

> -IN NJ if you have been harmed OR have been charged money, even if

called a “donation†or have purchased items from UNLICENSED and

non-credentialed persons and wish to complain, please call the NJ

Attorney General’s office-609-292-4925 or email using the website:

www.state.nj.us/lps/email.htm and click on consumer affairs.

> (out of state victims are encouraged to email their own Atty Gen as

well as N.J. )

> AND call your local/county Health Department for advice on health

frauds.

> FYI I have the appropriate NJ county contacts for the particular

person should you need them.

>

> - Apparently, if you feel as I do that you have the right to know a

persons education, training and certifications to treat ( or even

suggest treatments for) any illness but especially serious ones like

“neurodegenerative†diseases, youll have to contact their

attorney. I have that name, email me and Ill be GLAD to give it to

you. When's the last time a Dr referred you to his Atty when asked

his credentials??

>

> Its YOUR body and YOUR safety, you deserve to know the

qualification of EVERY one, without having to call their attorney.

Please dont be so desperate as to fall PREY to these individuals.

>

> To be a good “anything†means earning the designation by

behaving morally and ethically, NOT by being sarcastic and referring

someone to their attorney when asked for credentials.

>

> Lets remain vigilant, lets remain safe, lets keep the Lyme

community credible and please lets not allow our religious beliefs

blind us so we accept behaviors that ordinarily we would not endorse!

>

> Be well and as always--any questions or need for detailed names,

phone numbers etc email me at finrussak@...

>

> Finette

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

__

> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's

free from AOL at AOL.com.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Since this is a Buhner herbal protocol email list, I feel it is

important to make his

views on licensing known. Here is an article by him:

Some Arguments against the Standardization of Herbalists

http://www.gaianstudies.org/articles.htm

Just another point of view to consider when it comes to 'credentials'.

Here is Susun Weed's, another respected herbalist's, take on licensing of

herbalists:

http://www.wisewomantradition.com/talkingstick/2006/02/2_no_to_all_lic.html

I don't know that credentials will guarantee safety when it comes to physicians

and

practitioners.

Definitely food for thought,

>

> Pardon the length--there is a LOT of important info:

>

> After helping a few to find reputable practitioners to undo bad health

advice, I was

placed into a position of asking for and looking into the credentials/capability

of someone

who may have good intentions without the necessary training to do so safely.

[Guest guest]

Actually Ameoba, NJ doesnt regulate ND's or CNHP. Its a gap in

accountability.

And its way more than just a step down. Their website lists the

criteria/classes ( called seminars) and its amazingly deficient.

To be a CNHP anyone, even a high school dropout, sits in on 5

seminars, one per weekend or 6-10 hrs per seminar. a total of

anywhere from 30-50 hours for all five. You pay the check and they

allow you to use those letters after your name.Every year to keep

being allowed to use their logo or their letters, you pay again and

can sit in on the SAME one seminar you may have had...your choice.

A single one semester college class of 3 credits is 3 hrs ( and

maybe 1 additional discussion section or lab) per week for 16-18

weeks or a minimum of 48 hours.If discussion or dissertation

sections are required that is a minimum of 64 hrs ( or a few less,

discussion sessions are often cancelled the week of exams)

thats for ONE 3 credit UNDER graduate college class.AND college

classes require a high school diploma and often pre-requisites!!

To be an ND there are FOUR years of school similar to medical

schools that grant MDs -then there is the clinical similar to MD

intern/residencies. and the exams for licensing . And ND's cant sit

for specialty boards like MD's and I was told today by the National

Organization that a good ND will refer his patients when necessary

to a surgeon, neurologist, cardiologist etc as needed due to their

higher level of expertise.

Which is why I am SO amazed at any lay person calling herself an

expert of neurodegenerative disease. Even a well educated and

licensed ND wouldnt do that. Theyd defer to a neurologist.

Thanks for your post

be well

Finette

>

> I couldn't agree with you more. We should be very careful to

check

> credentials from anyone we get medical advice from. A Certified

> Natural Health Provider needs very little education and is a step

> down from a ND. It amazes me that some states like New Jersey

will

> allow a CNHP to retake a class to keep their certification. I

needed

> more education to become a science teacher and more education

hours

> to be recertified as a teacher than a CNHP does. And I do not

> dispense medical advice that affects the health of anyone.

>

> Amoeba

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

licenses or educational credentials at least insure a MINIMAL level

of competence. Any herbalist Ive spoken to ( and Im assuming

is the same) will tell you theyre an herbalist and wont pretend to

have other credentials if they dont.Its about DISCLOSURE and not

about comparing letters.

This post wasnt to disparage other non allopathic healing

modalities..just to point out that anyone who claims to have certain

expertises or education is OBLIGATED to disclose it.

Most herbalist when asked will tell you if theyre self trained, if

they studied, and under whom--entirely CREDIBLE in my opinion!!

And even those on Buhner Protocol seek health advice from possibly

less than qualified individuals and I didnt want to leave you guys

out--this has been and will continue to be posted elsewhere as soon

as I work out some kinks ( some posts have turned up with weird

codes instead of grammatical marks like quotes)

be well

Finette

> >

> > Pardon the length--there is a LOT of important info:

> >

> > After helping a few to find reputable practitioners to undo bad

health advice, I was

> placed into a position of asking for and looking into the

credentials/capability of someone

> who may have good intentions without the necessary training to do

so safely.

>

[Guest guest]

I read Buhner's article--very informative..I happen to agree with

most of it, and I have his conclusion copied:

QUOTE

There are many approaches to healing, perhaps it is time to

intentionally choose a kind of certification that embraces all of

them. In that way, those who seek the unique healing that herbal

medicines can bring will face the prospect, not of an impoverished,

single approach, but a system of practice that contains within it

the diversity of life that plants themselves possess.

Even he concludes a 'kind of certification' as a necessary evil?? at

least as part of a system of accountability?? thats all this is

about--in the end--accountability.

Plus Herbalists arent now licensed , NDs are!! and those initials

bring with it a set of expectations of training.Not to be taken

lightly.

Finette

>

> > >

> > > Pardon the length--there is a LOT of important info:

> > >

> > > After helping a few to find reputable practitioners to undo

bad

> health advice, I was

> > placed into a position of asking for and looking into the

> credentials/capability of someone

> > who may have good intentions without the necessary training to

do

> so safely.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Finette. I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you. I just remembered

that

had strong views on the subject of licensing.

Of course, anyone offering any service - medical or otherwise - should disclose

their true

credentials / education in that field, especially when asked.

But sometimes having the credentials is more dangerous because we are more

trusting. I

think the lesson in all of it is to be very wary of ALL practitioners and to

talk to as many

former patients of that practitioner with your similar condition as possible.

You want to

know someone's track record with treating people. Unfortunately with Lyme, MCS

and

other environmental illnesses, we are still guinea pigs for the most part.

>

> This post wasnt to disparage other non allopathic healing

> modalities..just to point out that anyone who claims to have certain

> expertises or education is OBLIGATED to disclose it.

>

> Most herbalist when asked will tell you if theyre self trained, if

> they studied, and under whom--entirely CREDIBLE in my opinion!!

[Guest guest]

Pardon the length--there is a LOT of important info:

After helping a few to find reputable practitioners to undo bad health advice,

I was placed into a position of asking for and looking into the

credentials/capability of someone who may have good intentions without the

necessary training to do so safely.

Even good hearted people must be accountable. Meaning well and hoping to help

others is NOT ENOUGH when lives are at risk. If you TRULY want to help others

you take the TIME to go to school and PASS exams and become qualified. There are

NO shortcuts for accountability! One such health consultant who is refusing to

disclose qualifications has recently been the topic of posts.

I am NOT against all things not medical-In my 17 plus years with Lyme I myself

have sought the advice of spiritual healers. I have paid for and accepted advice

from native healers, spiritualists, homeopaths, nutritionists, the great Dr

Atkins himself-before his protein diet craze -at his NYC Complementary Med

Clinic; and many others. I have also worked with many whose gifts can only be

described as G-d Given. I truly believe that on this Earth there are more things

than we as mortals can yet explain.

In ALL of those cases not ONE has tried to hide behind shady alphabet soup after

their names, not ONE has denied access to their training/education or lack

thereof. And not ONE has referred me to their LAWYER in a SARCASTIC email as

this “consultant†has done in response to a request of her to verify her

education, training and certification. Email me and I will be happy to FWD her

email response to you.

I have uncovered much interesting information. I will share this with you and

leave you to make your own choices. I pray you will all view this with open

minds, and NOT simply believe as many have emailed me to say-that being good

Christian women ( or men) is all the credentials necessary to give dangerous

medical advice and to PROFIT off of it. More than money, this is an issue of

putting others at RISK. And preying upon the desperate and less informed--a SIN

of great magnitude in my opinion.

-If health advisors claim to work with LLMDs or other licensed persons, ASK

which ones and CALL to make sure. Then ask their capacity--will they be

medically/ethically responsible for the advisor's suggestions? As of today 3 NJ

LLMDs claim to have NO knowledge of one person’s claims to this effect. I will

be asking others.

-CNHP- www.cnhp.org – the TOTAL number of seminar hours to use those initials

is less than that of one single college class in a semester. Phone them, they

will gleefully tell you they ASSUME their students attend for their OWN

education or if they aspire to be a consultant then they ASSUME previous

education like nursing or medical assistantship. No need to cover the basics

like medical physiology. They will also gleefully outline how they will help you

to run a business so that you wont have pitfalls of legality or ethics ( my

interpretation = ‘how to get around the system’).

To continue to use those letters you have to either PAY to take one seminar/yr

called a capstone, OR simply sit in again on one you’ve already taken.

Curriculum like " How to run your health business " counts! They do NOT claim to

keep records of who takes which class. They cannot tell you if someone takes the

same thing over and over while letting others assume an advanced level. They use

words like " practicum " and " capstone " to assume a false level of credibility. I

have found NOT ONE decent medical group that recognizes this certification. It

takes even less to be an “iridologistâ€. Some ARE trained and have been

taught in live clinical settings from experienced professionals—others alas

have not been. ASK your advisor what training she has had. Help the REAL and

competent health people keep their credibility.

-AANP- the national organization for Naturopathic Doctors. www.naturopathic.org

A phone call to them verifies that no one is an “almost ND†and no one will

advertise “ ND Candidate†without also specifying the school in attendance,

the date of expected grad AND the mentor theyre doing clinical training with.

They are VERY concerned about those who take a few correspondence or

non-accredited classes and attach ND—even with a modifier like

‘almostâ€â€”without disclosing exactly the accreditation behind it. NJ does

NOT yet license ND’s and so AANP is very active with insuring credibility

here. What I got from them: Many know that some State Medical Boards cant

sanction them due to the lack of authority and so in NJ ( and other states) its

too easy to be a quack or “almost NDâ€.

ALWAYS ask what school, how many years, under which ND they did clinical

training.

ND is NOT just a title: its a degree, its means a level of instruction has been

done and passed. It means a basic MINIMUM competence--without which you should

NOT listen to advice!

- If a person lists speaking at another group’s conference as proof of

capability—CALL or email the group and ask if they’ve bothered to check

credentials. The GAME out there is to get invited, speak and then list that as

proof of ability. You may have to force the group to even ask for proof of

credentials. Many happily accept offers from speakers and ASSUME theyre

credible! Often,after checking, the person is UNinvited! Don’t accept a list

of references or a bloated CV ( like a resume but detailed).Make sure it checks

out.

WHY BOTHER??? its your life at stake--isnt it worth the bother??? Why should we

have to?? because of those out there who try to beat the system and call

themselves experts or who claim all they want to do is HELP people and because

of their supporters/followers who would rather not have " proof " that the person

they rely upon isnt what she claims to be!

-DO NOT alter treatment as suggested by ANYone online or by phone or in person

especially if that person claims to be a “professional†and yet cannot/will

not provide ample evidence of education, and without first checking with really

accredited professionals. Drs make mistakes, but under- educated,

non-professionals make MORE of them and far more dangerous !! Especially if

they’ve convinced themselves and others that ND is “just a title†to quote

that particular consultant. Especially if they feel that they are above the law

and above the ethics of having—like the rest of us—to be

educated/trained/accredited before dispensing medical advice or supplements or

devices. Saying its " just a title " insults the REAL ND's who took the time and

cared enough to get it! This is MORE than just a bit of helpful advice from a

health food store clerk! and more than a suggestion from neighbor or fellow

Lymie---at least then you KNOW its coming from a non-professional.

-Nutritional counseling is also a bit unregulated in NJ. ALWAYS ask how much

training, where and for how long. Even some MD’s in NJ parcel out nutritional

advice under the safety umbrella of their MD license and yet when I asked one

particular Dr ( author of many books) about his nutritional knowledge he replied

“I read a lotâ€...well, so do I...that doesn’t make me a nutritional

expert. At least in his case he has an MD and the medical board can step in if

necessary.

- if you have or suspect you have a “neurodegenerative†illness, do NOT

accept the advice of under qualified individuals, even if others claim to have

been helped by them and even if others vouch for their “characterâ€. ASK to

see and then call to verify all credentials!! Even if it takes 6 visit to

different Drs.before finding a compassionate and knowledgeable one. GO to a

licensed individual, the nervous system is very complex and demands a

practitioner with more training than just “speaking with 8,000 Lymiesâ€.

-If you see the words “educated thousands world wide†ask HOW—if its

simply because she can go onto a website these days and post automatically to

the world and read people’s posts from all over that does NOT add to her

credibility. Being invited by accredited institutions, universities, science and

medicine groups—maybe THAT’S educating world wide. [iF they’ve bothered to

check creds]. Alas they dont often check either! I have NOT seen one of those

places invite this person. Ive taught foreign pre-med students..does that mean

Ive educated worldwide too??( smile)

-IN NJ if you have been harmed OR have been charged money, even if called a

“donation†or have purchased items from UNLICENSED and non-credentialed

persons and wish to complain, please call the NJ Attorney General’s

office-609-292-4925 or email using the website: www.state.nj.us/lps/email.htm

and click on consumer affairs.

(out of state victims are encouraged to email their own Atty Gen as well as N.J.

)

AND call your local/county Health Department for advice on health frauds.

FYI I have the appropriate NJ county contacts for the particular person should

you need them.

- Apparently, if you feel as I do that you have the right to know a persons

education, training and certifications to treat ( or even suggest treatments

for) any illness but especially serious ones like “neurodegenerativeâ€

diseases, youll have to contact their attorney. I have that name, email me and

Ill be GLAD to give it to you. When's the last time a Dr referred you to his

Atty when asked his credentials??

Its YOUR body and YOUR safety, you deserve to know the qualification of EVERY

one, without having to call their attorney. Please dont be so desperate as to

fall PREY to these individuals.

To be a good “anything†means earning the designation by behaving morally

and ethically, NOT by being sarcastic and referring someone to their attorney

when asked for credentials.

Lets remain vigilant, lets remain safe, lets keep the Lyme community credible

and please lets not allow our religious beliefs blind us so we accept behaviors

that ordinarily we would not endorse!

Be well and as always--any questions or need for detailed names, phone numbers

etc email me at finrussak@...

Finette

________________________________________________________________________

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL

at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Very interesting.

thanks,

ellen

> >

> > Pardon the length--there is a LOT of important info:

> >

> > After helping a few to find reputable practitioners to undo bad

health advice, I was

> placed into a position of asking for and looking into the

credentials/capability of someone

> who may have good intentions without the necessary training to do so

safely.

>

[Guest guest]

This is VERY important advice and information!

I deal with thousands of Lyme disease victims and often someone will

tell me they just found out that they don't have Lyme disease. Most

of the time when I ask about their doctor's credentials I learn that

their doctor is a local family doctor or " worse " one of the doctors

that is a member of the ALDF. Because the ALDF has a pretty website

and has doctor support too many people believe that everything they

write is true. Sometimes I find out that the doctor they just

saw " trained " under one of the ALDF docs. This is important

information to know!!!

Non-western medicine and all alternative medicine also needs to be

scrutinized very closely! There are LOTS of ways to check to see if

something alternative sounds valid. Though our MDs won't tell us,

much research has been done about alternative medicine. If you're

seeing a Naturopathic Doctor ask for the research they are basing

their treatment on. Though most of the research will come out of the

UK it is still very valuable.

Be sure to ask your doctor about any supplements you are taking!

Most of the time a doctor will say that the supplements won't do you

any good. That's okay to hear. What you don't want to learn is that

the supplements are going to harm you. Though western docs don't

know what helps they often do know what harms! (Sadly through

research after patients have died.)

A person's credentials should also be scrutinized. How much

education a person has will affect your health! How long did the

practitioner train under another licensed practitioner matters! If

someone said they trained under someone else ask for the contact

information of the trainer. Then call the trainer and ask if they in

fact trained the person and then ask how well they learned the

material. It's amazing to me how folks will use another's name

without permission or even if that person " fired " them. People do

this because rarely do we check up on claims by individuals or

groups. Practitioners should be happy to give you their Curriculum

Vitae as Dr Burrascano has done in the past! Use that as your

starting point in making sure an individual you are checking on is

honest.

Ask the tough questions whether you're seeing someone who practices

traditional medicine or alternative medicine!!! The answers should

lead you to feel confidence in the person not concerned. I know this

can be tough. But we live in a tough world interacting with people

who don't have our best interest at heart. Egos and LOTS of money

are involved in treating folks with Lyme disease. Make sure the

person you're trusting is trustworthy and capable!

Please remember ALL substances that we put into our bodies affects

our bodies. (That's why we take " medicine " and " supplements " !)

Unless our care is being directed by a qualified practitioner we

could be putting our lives at risk!

Robynn

>

> Pardon the length--there is a LOT of important info:

>

> After helping a few to find reputable practitioners to undo bad

health advice, I was placed into a position of asking for and looking

into the credentials/capability of someone who may have good

intentions without the necessary training to do so safely.

>

> Even good hearted people must be accountable. Meaning well and

hoping to help others is NOT ENOUGH when lives are at risk. If you

TRULY want to help others you take the TIME to go to school and PASS

exams and become qualified. There are NO shortcuts for

accountability! One such health consultant who is refusing to

disclose qualifications has recently been the topic of posts.

>

> I am NOT against all things not medical-In my 17 plus years with

Lyme I myself have sought the advice of spiritual healers. I have

paid for and accepted advice from native healers, spiritualists,

homeopaths, nutritionists, the great Dr Atkins himself-before his

protein diet craze -at his NYC Complementary Med Clinic; and many

others. I have also worked with many whose gifts can only be

described as G-d Given. I truly believe that on this Earth there are

more things than we as mortals can yet explain.

>

> In ALL of those cases not ONE has tried to hide behind shady

alphabet soup after their names, not ONE has denied access to their

training/education or lack thereof. And not ONE has referred me to

their LAWYER in a SARCASTIC email as this consultant has done in

response to a request of her to verify her education, training and

certification. Email me and I will be happy to FWD her email response

to you.

>

> I have uncovered much interesting information. I will share this

with you and leave you to make your own choices. I pray you will all

view this with open minds, and NOT simply believe as many have

emailed me to say-that being good Christian women ( or men) is all

the credentials necessary to give dangerous medical advice and to

PROFIT off of it. More than money, this is an issue of putting others

at RISK. And preying upon the desperate and less informed--a SIN of

great magnitude in my opinion.

>

> -If health advisors claim to work with LLMDs or other licensed

persons, ASK which ones and CALL to make sure. Then ask their

capacity--will they be medically/ethically responsible for the

advisor's suggestions? As of today 3 NJ LLMDs claim to have NO

knowledge of one persons claims to this effect. I will be asking

others.

>

> -CNHP- www.cnhp.org " the TOTAL number of seminar hours to use

those initials is less than that of one single college class in a

semester. Phone them, they will gleefully tell you they ASSUME their

students attend for their OWN education or if they aspire to be a

consultant then they ASSUME previous education like nursing or

medical assistantship. No need to cover the basics like medical

physiology. They will also gleefully outline how they will help you

to run a business so that you wont have pitfalls of legality or

ethics ( my interpretation = how to get around the system).

> To continue to use those letters you have to either PAY to take one

seminar/yr called a capstone, OR simply sit in again on one youve

already taken. Curriculum like " How to run your health business "

counts! They do NOT claim to keep records of who takes which class.

They cannot tell you if someone takes the same thing over and over

while letting others assume an advanced level. They use words

like " practicum " and " capstone " to assume a false level of

credibility. I have found NOT ONE decent medical group that

recognizes this certification. It takes even less to be an

iridologist. Some ARE trained and have been taught in live clinical

settings from experienced professionals†" others alas have not been.

ASK your advisor what training she has had. Help the REAL and

competent health people keep their credibility.

>

> -AANP- the national organization for Naturopathic Doctors.

www.naturopathic.org A phone call to them verifies that no one is an

almost ND and no one will advertise ND Candidate without also

specifying the school in attendance, the date of expected grad AND

the mentor theyre doing clinical training with. They are VERY

concerned about those who take a few correspondence or non-accredited

classes and attach ND " even with a modifier like ˜almost " without

disclosing exactly the accreditation behind it. NJ does NOT yet

license NDs and so AANP is very active with insuring credibility

here. What I got from them: Many know that some State Medical Boards

cant sanction them due to the lack of authority and so in NJ ( and

other states) its too easy to be a quack or almost ND.

> ALWAYS ask what school, how many years, under which ND they did

clinical training.

> ND is NOT just a title: its a degree, its means a level of

instruction has been done and passed. It means a basic MINIMUM

competence--without which you should NOT listen to advice!

>

> - If a person lists speaking at another groups conference as proof

of capability " CALL or email the group and ask if theyve bothered to

check credentials. The GAME out there is to get invited, speak and

then list that as proof of ability. You may have to force the group

to even ask for proof of credentials. Many happily accept offers from

speakers and ASSUME theyre credible! Often,after checking, the person

is UNinvited! Don't accept a list of references or a bloated CV (

like a resume but detailed).Make sure it checks out.

>

> WHY BOTHER??? its your life at stake--isnt it worth the bother???

Why should we have to?? because of those out there who try to beat

the system and call themselves experts or who claim all they want to

do is HELP people and because of their supporters/followers who would

rather not have " proof " that the person they rely upon isnt what she

claims to be!

>

> -DO NOT alter treatment as suggested by ANYone online or by phone

or in person especially if that person claims to be a professional

and yet cannot/will not provide ample evidence of education, and

without first checking with really accredited professionals. Drs make

mistakes, but under- educated, non-professionals make MORE of them

and far more dangerous !! Especially if they've convinced themselves

and others that ND is just a title to quote that particular

consultant. Especially if they feel that they are above the law and

above the ethics of having " like the rest of us " to be

educated/trained/accredited before dispensing medical advice or

supplements or devices. Saying its " just a title " insults the REAL

ND's who took the time and cared enough to get it! This is MORE than

just a bit of helpful advice from a health food store clerk! and more

than a suggestion from neighbor or fellow Lymie---at least then you

KNOW its coming from a non-professional.

>

> -Nutritional counseling is also a bit unregulated in NJ. ALWAYS ask

how much training, where and for how long. Even some MDs in NJ parcel

out nutritional advice under the safety umbrella of their MD license

and yet when I asked one particular Dr ( author of many books) about

his nutritional knowledge he replied I read a lot...well, so do

I...that doesn't make me a nutritional expert. At least in his case

he has an MD and the medical board can step in if necessary.

>

> - if you have or suspect you have a neurodegenerative illness, do

NOT accept the advice of under qualified individuals, even if others

claim to have been helped by them and even if others vouch for their

character. ASK to see and then call to verify all credentials!! Even

if it takes 6 visit to different Drs.before finding a compassionate

and knowledgeable one. GO to a licensed individual, the nervous

system is very complex and demands a practitioner with more training

than just speaking with 8,000 Lymies.

>

> -If you see the words educated thousands world wide ask HOW " if its

simply because she can go onto a website these days and post

automatically to the world and read peoples posts from all over that

does NOT add to her credibility. Being invited by accredited

institutions, universities, science and medicine groups " maybe THATS

educating world wide. [iF they've bothered to check creds]. Alas they

dont often check either! I have NOT seen one of those places invite

this person. Ive taught foreign pre-med students..does that mean Ive

educated worldwide too??( smile)

>

> -IN NJ if you have been harmed OR have been charged money, even if

called a donation or have purchased items from UNLICENSED and non-

credentialed persons and wish to complain, please call the NJ

Attorney Generals office-609-292-4925 or email using the website:

www.state.nj.us/lps/email.htm and click on consumer affairs.

> (out of state victims are encouraged to email their own Atty Gen as

well as N.J. )

> AND call your local/county Health Department for advice on health

frauds.

> FYI I have the appropriate NJ county contacts for the particular

person should you need them.

>

> - Apparently, if you feel as I do that you have the right to know a

persons education, training and certifications to treat ( or even

suggest treatments for) any illness but especially serious ones like

neurodegenerative diseases, youll have to contact their attorney. I

have that name, email me and Ill be GLAD to give it to you. When's

the last time a Dr referred you to his Atty when asked his

credentials??

>

> Its YOUR body and YOUR safety, you deserve to know the

qualification of EVERY one, without having to call their attorney.

Please dont be so desperate as to fall PREY to these individuals.

>

> To be a good anything means earning the designation by behaving

morally and ethically, NOT by being sarcastic and referring someone

to their attorney when asked for credentials.

>

> Lets remain vigilant, lets remain safe, lets keep the Lyme

community credible and please lets not allow our religious beliefs

blind us so we accept behaviors that ordinarily we would not endorse!

>

> Be well and as always--any questions or need for detailed names,

phone numbers etc email me at finrussak@...

>

> Finette

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Finette, for taking the time to inform all of us about this serious

situation. I appreciate the information.

Hope & Healing,

Jillian

FinRussak@... wrote:

Pardon the length--there is a LOT of important info:

After helping a few to find reputable practitioners to undo bad health advice, I

was placed into a position of asking for and looking into the

credentials/capability of someone who may have good intentions without the

necessary training to do so safely.

Even good hearted people must be accountable. Meaning well and hoping to help

others is NOT ENOUGH when lives are at risk. If you TRULY want to help others

you take the TIME to go to school and PASS exams and become qualified. There are

NO shortcuts for accountability! One such health consultant who is refusing to

disclose qualifications has recently been the topic of posts.

I am NOT against all things not medical-In my 17 plus years with Lyme I myself

have sought the advice of spiritual healers. I have paid for and accepted advice

from native healers, spiritualists, homeopaths, nutritionists, the great Dr

Atkins himself-before his protein diet craze -at his NYC Complementary Med

Clinic; and many others. I have also worked with many whose gifts can only be

described as G-d Given. I truly believe that on this Earth there are more things

than we as mortals can yet explain.

In ALL of those cases not ONE has tried to hide behind shady alphabet soup after

their names, not ONE has denied access to their training/education or lack

thereof. And not ONE has referred me to their LAWYER in a SARCASTIC email as

this “consultant†has done in response to a request of her to verify her

education, training and certification. Email me and I will be happy to FWD her

email response to you.

I have uncovered much interesting information. I will share this with you and

leave you to make your own choices. I pray you will all view this with open

minds, and NOT simply believe as many have emailed me to say-that being good

Christian women ( or men) is all the credentials necessary to give dangerous

medical advice and to PROFIT off of it. More than money, this is an issue of

putting others at RISK. And preying upon the desperate and less informed--a SIN

of great magnitude in my opinion.

-If health advisors claim to work with LLMDs or other licensed persons, ASK

which ones and CALL to make sure. Then ask their capacity--will they be

medically/ethically responsible for the advisor's suggestions? As of today 3 NJ

LLMDs claim to have NO knowledge of one person’s claims to this effect. I will

be asking others.

-CNHP- www.cnhp.org – the TOTAL number of seminar hours to use those initials

is less than that of one single college class in a semester. Phone them, they

will gleefully tell you they ASSUME their students attend for their OWN

education or if they aspire to be a consultant then they ASSUME previous

education like nursing or medical assistantship. No need to cover the basics

like medical physiology. They will also gleefully outline how they will help you

to run a business so that you wont have pitfalls of legality or ethics ( my

interpretation = ‘how to get around the system’).

To continue to use those letters you have to either PAY to take one seminar/yr

called a capstone, OR simply sit in again on one you’ve already taken.

Curriculum like " How to run your health business " counts! They do NOT claim to

keep records of who takes which class. They cannot tell you if someone takes the

same thing over and over while letting others assume an advanced level. They use

words like " practicum " and " capstone " to assume a false level of credibility. I

have found NOT ONE decent medical group that recognizes this certification. It

takes even less to be an “iridologistâ€. Some ARE trained and have been

taught in live clinical settings from experienced professionals—others alas

have not been. ASK your advisor what training she has had. Help the REAL and

competent health people keep their credibility.

-AANP- the national organization for Naturopathic Doctors. www.naturopathic.org

A phone call to them verifies that no one is an “almost ND†and no one will

advertise “ ND Candidate†without also specifying the school in attendance,

the date of expected grad AND the mentor theyre doing clinical training with.

They are VERY concerned about those who take a few correspondence or

non-accredited classes and attach ND—even with a modifier like

‘almostâ€â€”without disclosing exactly the accreditation behind it. NJ does

NOT yet license ND’s and so AANP is very active with insuring credibility

here. What I got from them: Many know that some State Medical Boards cant

sanction them due to the lack of authority and so in NJ ( and other states) its

too easy to be a quack or “almost NDâ€.

ALWAYS ask what school, how many years, under which ND they did clinical

training.

ND is NOT just a title: its a degree, its means a level of instruction has been

done and passed. It means a basic MINIMUM competence--without which you should

NOT listen to advice!

- If a person lists speaking at another group’s conference as proof of

capability—CALL or email the group and ask if they’ve bothered to check

credentials. The GAME out there is to get invited, speak and then list that as

proof of ability. You may have to force the group to even ask for proof of

credentials. Many happily accept offers from speakers and ASSUME theyre

credible! Often,after checking, the person is UNinvited! Don’t accept a list

of references or a bloated CV ( like a resume but detailed).Make sure it checks

out.

WHY BOTHER??? its your life at stake--isnt it worth the bother??? Why should we

have to?? because of those out there who try to beat the system and call

themselves experts or who claim all they want to do is HELP people and because

of their supporters/followers who would rather not have " proof " that the person

they rely upon isnt what she claims to be!

-DO NOT alter treatment as suggested by ANYone online or by phone or in person

especially if that person claims to be a “professional†and yet cannot/will

not provide ample evidence of education, and without first checking with really

accredited professionals. Drs make mistakes, but under- educated,

non-professionals make MORE of them and far more dangerous !! Especially if

they’ve convinced themselves and others that ND is “just a title†to quote

that particular consultant. Especially if they feel that they are above the law

and above the ethics of having—like the rest of us—to be

educated/trained/accredited before dispensing medical advice or supplements or

devices. Saying its " just a title " insults the REAL ND's who took the time and

cared enough to get it! This is MORE than just a bit of helpful advice from a

health food store clerk! and more than a suggestion from neighbor or fellow

Lymie---at least then you KNOW its coming from a non-professional.

-Nutritional counseling is also a bit unregulated in NJ. ALWAYS ask how much

training, where and for how long. Even some MD’s in NJ parcel out nutritional

advice under the safety umbrella of their MD license and yet when I asked one

particular Dr ( author of many books) about his nutritional knowledge he replied

“I read a lotâ€...well, so do I...that doesn’t make me a nutritional

expert. At least in his case he has an MD and the medical board can step in if

necessary.

- if you have or suspect you have a “neurodegenerative†illness, do NOT

accept the advice of under qualified individuals, even if others claim to have

been helped by them and even if others vouch for their “characterâ€. ASK to

see and then call to verify all credentials!! Even if it takes 6 visit to

different Drs.before finding a compassionate and knowledgeable one. GO to a

licensed individual, the nervous system is very complex and demands a

practitioner with more training than just “speaking with 8,000 Lymiesâ€.

-If you see the words “educated thousands world wide†ask HOW—if its

simply because she can go onto a website these days and post automatically to

the world and read people’s posts from all over that does NOT add to her

credibility. Being invited by accredited institutions, universities, science and

medicine groups—maybe THAT’S educating world wide. [iF they’ve bothered to

check creds]. Alas they dont often check either! I have NOT seen one of those

places invite this person. Ive taught foreign pre-med students..does that mean

Ive educated worldwide too??( smile)

-IN NJ if you have been harmed OR have been charged money, even if called a

“donation†or have purchased items from UNLICENSED and non-credentialed

persons and wish to complain, please call the NJ Attorney General’s

office-609-292-4925 or email using the website: www.state.nj.us/lps/email.htm

and click on consumer affairs.

(out of state victims are encouraged to email their own Atty Gen as well as N.J.

)

AND call your local/county Health Department for advice on health frauds.

FYI I have the appropriate NJ county contacts for the particular person should

you need them.

- Apparently, if you feel as I do that you have the right to know a persons

education, training and certifications to treat ( or even suggest treatments

for) any illness but especially serious ones like “neurodegenerativeâ€

diseases, youll have to contact their attorney. I have that name, email me and

Ill be GLAD to give it to you. When's the last time a Dr referred you to his

Atty when asked his credentials??

Its YOUR body and YOUR safety, you deserve to know the qualification of EVERY

one, without having to call their attorney. Please dont be so desperate as to

fall PREY to these individuals.

To be a good “anything†means earning the designation by behaving morally

and ethically, NOT by being sarcastic and referring someone to their attorney

when asked for credentials.

Lets remain vigilant, lets remain safe, lets keep the Lyme community credible

and please lets not allow our religious beliefs blind us so we accept behaviors

that ordinarily we would not endorse!

Be well and as always--any questions or need for detailed names, phone numbers

etc email me at finrussak@...

Finette

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