RE: Digest Number 730

March 5, 2000

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>

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> Message: 21

> Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:48:14 -0800

> From: " Ken Lassesen " <KenL@...>

> Subject: Re: Berberine, Coag Effect, Natural Abx

>

> The mutual benefit of this list is the ability (and openess) of people

cross checking things. " Natural Antibiotics " for CFS is good in theory, but

as has been pointed out by research:

> * antibiotics that causes coagulation are bad because ~90+% of us have

thick blood (hypercoagulation) per Dr. Berg research

>

> Furthermore, the antibiotics must be effective against cell wall deficient

bacteria (mycoplasma, lyme, rickettsia) - some antibiotics (natural or

man-made) actually encourages the growth of cell wall deficient bacteria

(like penicillin see http://www.folkarts.com/idef/pencillin.htm for more

information).

>

> For some people the statement that " Antibiotics did not help my CFIDS, but

made it worst " is correct - for those prescribed the wrong class of

antibiotics. When we look for 'natural antibiotics', we must be careful to

select one that are research have found to be effective against cell wall

deficient bacteria -- if not, we are likely playing russian roulette with

our lives.

>

> OK... the stuff on Hawthorn... (from

http://nutritionfocus.com/nutrition_supplementation/herbs/Hawthorn_Berries.h

tm ) - I'm very glad that Laurie found this site, it is very well done. it

is

> antithrombotic (i.e. an anticoagulant!)

> For INDICATIONS (use for): blood clotting ... Raynaud's syndrome

(temperature sensistivity that is very common with CFIDS)

>

> -- there is a lot of warnings on it (so before getting the mixture of

Olive Leaf Extract and Hawthorn - make sure you read the list)

>

> Another description of it is at

http://pacific.telebyte.com/~brtaylor/hawthorn.html ( hmmm " are high in

chromium and selenium " - a good thing)

>

> OK - the 2nd qualification hurdle: Is it effective against mycoplasma?

This can be a little hard... I usually search for any literature about a

herb and WALKING PNEUMONIA (because it is technically mycoplasma

pneumonia) - the most common form of mycoplasma infection.

>

> " Crataegus will maintain the heart in a healthy condition, preventing the

development of coronary disease.Heart weakness following infectious disease

such as pneumonia or diptheria.Cardiac arrhythmias. " from

http://www.bryrus.net/essence/education/herbal_extracts.htm is the best that

I could find (similar statement on other sites) ... it is used to prevent

complications after pneumonia -- which implies that it does not foster the

growth of mycoplasma.

>

> Conclusion: Hawthorn has some definite advantages against Hypercoagulation

CFIDS (i.e. 90% of CFIDS patients), and appears to have no significant risks

for cell wall deficient CFIDS patients. (please correct me if I'm wrong or

if you have other sources)

>

> Ken Lassesen

> 2 @ 2 ft PWC, 2 @ 4ft PWC

> 2 ft PWC: http://www.folkarts.com/idef/

> 4 ft PWC: http://corgi.folkarts.com/

> Fax: (520) 832-6836 ICQ #: 2122097 (Netmeeting too)

> Undenatured whey - for

>

> , you asked " what's the deal with: neurontin, whey (what's the theory

behind using it, and what is it?), mycoplasma?, hhv6?, blood thining,

herxing (really keen to find out what herxing is :-), nadh, and anything

else I'm missing. "

>

> I can help with the whey info. I'm updating Cheney's Treatment Protocol

for our support group's website and I've added a section on whey.

(www.virtualhometown.com/dfwcfids). I've pasted it below. Take care.

Carol

>

> Undenatured Whey: detox and antimicrobial benefits

>

> I believe that the glutathione deficiency found in virtually all patients

is the key problem, particularly over time. Nothing we tried significantly

increasing its functionality. The consistent low to low normal levels of

glutathione in whole blood, and particularly the abnormal functional markers

of glutathione (elevated lipid peroxides, elevated citrate, depressed alpha

ketogluterate) indicated that neither supplementation, injections, nor other

interventions seemed to be addressing intracellular levels, which is where

90% of the body's glutathione is needed. The deficiency was extremely

treatment resistant.

>

> There are two major implications of glutathione deficiency: detox failure

and viral/microbial activation. Glutathione plays a major role in the

detoxification pathways of the body, and this deficiency makes these

patients very difficult to manage from a detoxification standpoint. Using a

good detox program that has worked on a lot of other people can actually put

some of these patients in the hospital. The cellular detox failure this

deficiency causes can make these patients canaries to their environment.

Therefore the glutathione deficiency needs to be addressed before any

serious attempt is made at detoxification.

>

> Glutathione is also a powerful antiviral and antimicrobial weapon.

Falci, the top HIV researcher at the NIH has shown that HIV growth can be

completely stopped by raising the glutathione in-vitro in the cell culture.

Given the widespread activation of viruses like EBV, CMV, and HHV6, and the

activation of microbes like mycoplasma, chlamydia pneumoniae and candida in

CFIDS, finding a way to raise intracellular levels of glutathione has been a

top priority. If you raise the glutathione levels you can stop the

replication of most any intracellular pathogen. (All of the above are

intracellular.)

>

> We have found a way to do this - undenatured whey protein. We conducted a

six month study using the first patented bioactive whey product, (editor's

note: Immunocal), and discovered that it improved glutathione functionality

significantly. Patients who had tested positive for mycoplasma and chlamydia

pneumoniae before treatment were negative afterwards. It also wiped out

HHV6, though only when 2 paks a day were taken, not just one. The

traditional treatment for mycoplasma and chlamydia pneumoniae is 18 months

of triple antibiotics, which can wipe out a patient's gut flora and leave

them a gut ecology cripple for the rest of their lives. This is a much nicer

treatment approach.

>

> (Editor's note: Dr. Cheney found ImuPlus to be as effective as Immunocal.

In December of 1999 a new undenatured whey called ImmunoPro appeared on the

market after two years in development. It is two to six times more powerful

than the former products. The latter two products are available from NEEDS,

1-800-634-1380. A 300 gm canister of ImmunoPro is $39.95. Six canisters are

$36 each, 12 are $32 each. ImuPlus is $82.50 for sixty packets, 600 gms

total. Dosage: 1 packet (10 gms) twice a day of Immunocal and ImuPlus on an

empty stomach. Some may need to start with lower doses and advance slowly.

Others need 4 to 6 packets a day to see improvement. With ImmunoPro start

with 1 teaspoon twice daily and slowly advance to 20 to 40 grams. A 10 gram

scoop is provided.)

>

____________________________________________________________________________

___

>

March 5, 2000

Ken I think a lot of folks who got no help from abxs used Doxy. I can't argue

with those who say abxs help but I still have seen no evidence in terms of

double blind trial. I did see a brief lit

review looking at abxs and FM -- and there were some blinded trial and they did

not demonstrate the efficacy of abxs.

It seems so easy to do some good research in this area, I wish someone would do

it.

steve

Joyce wrote:

> From: " Joyce " <ayjoyzz@...>

>

> >

> ____________________________________________________________________________

> ___

> >

> ____________________________________________________________________________

> ___

> >

> > Message: 21

> > Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:48:14 -0800

> > From: " Ken Lassesen " <KenL@...>

> > Subject: Re: Berberine, Coag Effect, Natural Abx

> >

> > The mutual benefit of this list is the ability (and openess) of people

> cross checking things. " Natural Antibiotics " for CFS is good in theory, but

> as has been pointed out by research:

> > * antibiotics that causes coagulation are bad because ~90+% of us have

> thick blood (hypercoagulation) per Dr. Berg research

> >

> > Furthermore, the antibiotics must be effective against cell wall deficient

> bacteria (mycoplasma, lyme, rickettsia) - some antibiotics (natural or

> man-made) actually encourages the growth of cell wall deficient bacteria

> (like penicillin see http://www.folkarts.com/idef/pencillin.htm for more

> information).

> >

> > For some people the statement that " Antibiotics did not help my CFIDS, but

> made it worst " is correct - for those prescribed the wrong class of

> antibiotics. When we look for 'natural antibiotics', we must be careful to

> select one that are research have found to be effective against cell wall

> deficient bacteria -- if not, we are likely playing russian roulette with

> our lives.

> >

> > OK... the stuff on Hawthorn... (from

> http://nutritionfocus.com/nutrition_supplementation/herbs/Hawthorn_Berries.h

> tm ) - I'm very glad that Laurie found this site, it is very well done. it

> is

> > antithrombotic (i.e. an anticoagulant!)

> > For INDICATIONS (use for): blood clotting ... Raynaud's syndrome

> (temperature sensistivity that is very common with CFIDS)

> >

> > -- there is a lot of warnings on it (so before getting the mixture of

> Olive Leaf Extract and Hawthorn - make sure you read the list)

> >

> > Another description of it is at

> http://pacific.telebyte.com/~brtaylor/hawthorn.html ( hmmm " are high in

> chromium and selenium " - a good thing)

> >

> > OK - the 2nd qualification hurdle: Is it effective against mycoplasma?

> This can be a little hard... I usually search for any literature about a

> herb and WALKING PNEUMONIA (because it is technically mycoplasma

> pneumonia) - the most common form of mycoplasma infection.

> >

> > " Crataegus will maintain the heart in a healthy condition, preventing the

> development of coronary disease.Heart weakness following infectious disease

> such as pneumonia or diptheria.Cardiac arrhythmias. " from

> http://www.bryrus.net/essence/education/herbal_extracts.htm is the best that

> I could find (similar statement on other sites) ... it is used to prevent

> complications after pneumonia -- which implies that it does not foster the

> growth of mycoplasma.

> >

> > Conclusion: Hawthorn has some definite advantages against Hypercoagulation

> CFIDS (i.e. 90% of CFIDS patients), and appears to have no significant risks

> for cell wall deficient CFIDS patients. (please correct me if I'm wrong or

> if you have other sources)

> >

> > Ken Lassesen

> > 2 @ 2 ft PWC, 2 @ 4ft PWC

> > 2 ft PWC: http://www.folkarts.com/idef/

> > 4 ft PWC: http://corgi.folkarts.com/

> > Fax: (520) 832-6836 ICQ #: 2122097 (Netmeeting too)

> > Undenatured whey - for

> >

> > , you asked " what's the deal with: neurontin, whey (what's the theory

> behind using it, and what is it?), mycoplasma?, hhv6?, blood thining,

> herxing (really keen to find out what herxing is :-), nadh, and anything

> else I'm missing. "

> >

> > I can help with the whey info. I'm updating Cheney's Treatment Protocol

> for our support group's website and I've added a section on whey.

> (www.virtualhometown.com/dfwcfids). I've pasted it below. Take care.

> Carol

> >

> > Undenatured Whey: detox and antimicrobial benefits

> >

> > I believe that the glutathione deficiency found in virtually all patients

> is the key problem, particularly over time. Nothing we tried significantly

> increasing its functionality. The consistent low to low normal levels of

> glutathione in whole blood, and particularly the abnormal functional markers

> of glutathione (elevated lipid peroxides, elevated citrate, depressed alpha

> ketogluterate) indicated that neither supplementation, injections, nor other

> interventions seemed to be addressing intracellular levels, which is where

> 90% of the body's glutathione is needed. The deficiency was extremely

> treatment resistant.

> >

> > There are two major implications of glutathione deficiency: detox failure

> and viral/microbial activation. Glutathione plays a major role in the

> detoxification pathways of the body, and this deficiency makes these

> patients very difficult to manage from a detoxification standpoint. Using a

> good detox program that has worked on a lot of other people can actually put

> some of these patients in the hospital. The cellular detox failure this

> deficiency causes can make these patients canaries to their environment.

> Therefore the glutathione deficiency needs to be addressed before any

> serious attempt is made at detoxification.

> >

> > Glutathione is also a powerful antiviral and antimicrobial weapon.

> Falci, the top HIV researcher at the NIH has shown that HIV growth can be

> completely stopped by raising the glutathione in-vitro in the cell culture.

> Given the widespread activation of viruses like EBV, CMV, and HHV6, and the

> activation of microbes like mycoplasma, chlamydia pneumoniae and candida in

> CFIDS, finding a way to raise intracellular levels of glutathione has been a

> top priority. If you raise the glutathione levels you can stop the

> replication of most any intracellular pathogen. (All of the above are

> intracellular.)

> >

> > We have found a way to do this - undenatured whey protein. We conducted a

> six month study using the first patented bioactive whey product, (editor's

> note: Immunocal), and discovered that it improved glutathione functionality

> significantly. Patients who had tested positive for mycoplasma and chlamydia

> pneumoniae before treatment were negative afterwards. It also wiped out

> HHV6, though only when 2 paks a day were taken, not just one. The

> traditional treatment for mycoplasma and chlamydia pneumoniae is 18 months

> of triple antibiotics, which can wipe out a patient's gut flora and leave

> them a gut ecology cripple for the rest of their lives. This is a much nicer

> treatment approach.

> >

> > (Editor's note: Dr. Cheney found ImuPlus to be as effective as Immunocal.

> In December of 1999 a new undenatured whey called ImmunoPro appeared on the

> market after two years in development. It is two to six times more powerful

> than the former products. The latter two products are available from NEEDS,

> 1-800-634-1380. A 300 gm canister of ImmunoPro is $39.95. Six canisters are

> $36 each, 12 are $32 each. ImuPlus is $82.50 for sixty packets, 600 gms

> total. Dosage: 1 packet (10 gms) twice a day of Immunocal and ImuPlus on an

> empty stomach. Some may need to start with lower doses and advance slowly.

> Others need 4 to 6 packets a day to see improvement. With ImmunoPro start

> with 1 teaspoon twice daily and slowly advance to 20 to 40 grams. A 10 gram

> scoop is provided.)

> >

> ____________________________________________________________________________

> ___

> >

>

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> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

March 5, 2000

I agree. Gail may know of some. Do you have any URLs for the the abx and FM

studies -- I would love to review the articles and see the exact constuction of

the studies. A special area of interest is the selection criteria for the

patients.... I recall one study that found that CFS & FM patients are generally

far worst than CFS or FM alone ... so a second factor may be involved (like

damage to the nervous systems)

Ken Lassesen

2 @ 2 ft PWC, 2 @ 4ft PWC

2 ft PWC: http://www.folkarts.com/idef/

4 ft PWC: http://corgi.folkarts.com/

Fax: (520) 832-6836 ICQ #: 2122097 (Netmeeting too)

----- Original Message -----

From: Dr. Steve

Ken I think a lot of folks who got no help from abxs used Doxy. I can't argue

with those who say abxs help but I still have seen no evidence in terms of

double blind trial. I did see a brief lit

review looking at abxs and FM -- and there were some blinded trial and they

did not demonstrate the efficacy of abxs.

It seems so easy to do some good research in this area, I wish someone would

do it.

steve

January 26, 2001

I scanned and transcribed the article about CMT that Gretchen found in USC

Health magazine. It's listed as one of the links on the links page at

or you can go directly to the article at

http://www.drscience.com/CMT/uscarticle.htm The page contains small

pictures of the pages so it's kind of large (365kbytes) for modem users, but

it's worth the wait.

Happy reading!

---------- Rick Alber

January 26, 2001

Hey Rick, that was a very interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

Sam

March 31, 2001

At 08:35 PM 3/31/01 +0000, you wrote:

>Also, do you think my FO will be ok? Or should I use EO instead?

I'd not dream of using an FO on a baby...or in baby soap. the whole point

of using lavender and/or chamomile is for their effects. you have no idea

what the FO is made of.

Your source for superb Essential Oils, Aromatherapy

Accessories, Information, Books and more!

Visit us at: <http://www.naturesgift.com>

November 5, 2001

Hi Tina,

Welcome. I don't post often, but I love this list. I live 30 minutes south

of Boston. We're practically neighbors. My daughter is 6 3/4 years old and

has autism/ Landau-Kleffner Syndrome.

November 6, 2001

Hi , I know you from autismtalk.net My name is le

dannilynn7002312AOL.COM . I 'am glad you found this group eveeryone is so

much help.

November 6, 2001

Hi Judy,the medicaid waiver is based on the childs needs and income like if

she gets s.s.i or something they don;t base it on the parents at all or we

would never get anything.Take my advice on the 20 hours of therapy they said

your daughter needs get as much as you can we don't do a.b.a or anything,but

private speech an o.t. twice a week along with pre-school four days a week 2

hours a day is making such a difference for her i will get more private

therapy as soon as the medicaid waiver comes through.What types of behaviors

an things is your daughter doing or what are the traits that make her midly

autisic if you don;t mind me asking sometimes people can give you better

advice based on that information.

May 8, 2002

Original message:

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Does anyone sell with/ without insurance

RLI is not available in some states. Probably the most litigious ones.

Anne

http://www.annelees.com/oils/

--------------

I have RLI in NJ ($2 mil) and there ain't too many states more litigious

than this one! (I'm not proud of that, btw) So be sure to check. I found

that the website was not too user friendly. Be sure to start calling the

agents listed there - you many have to make several phone calls before you

find one that's right for you but it's worth the effort.

I, for one, KNOW that my husband would be really, really, REALLY mad if I

lost the house and his guitar collection (his stuff is still part of our

assets) because someone used my facial scrub instead of oatmeal, got sick,

and sued me and won!

Rishar

May 9, 2002

What is RLI?

November 17, 2002

Hi Terry,

Wow, you're almost there! How's it looking so far? How've you been feeling? I wasn't able to finish my treatment because I also have Sickle cell & my sickle acted up after 3 months, so it had to be stopped. I've just been lucky that my liver functions have been good so far. I'm hoping to be able to try again. It sure would be nice to get rid of this virus.

Ada

March 25, 2005

Armour comes from the Armour...(hot dogs)...Pig factory, it is pig thyroid

hormone and I have been taking it for years. It is the closest T3/T4 combo

to humans. I suggest finding doctors that do prescribe it as there are

plenty. Look at Shomon's website about.com/thyroid for the top doctors

that offer alternatives to Synthroid. Doctors who do not prescribe it are

misinformed by the synthetic drug makers, who want to keep people on their

prescription medication as opposed to actually helping people with thyroid

feel well again. There are doctors who do prescribe it and even Costco

carries it. You can also go to the armour website for more information.

www.advancedbiofeedback.com for your health needs

www.orenda.iact1.com/11239 for anti aging, immune modulation & easy weight

loss

http://soldiersangels.org Let no soldier go unloved

May no soldier walk alone

May no soldier be forgotten

Until they all come home

March 29, 2005

Good information, . I would like to refer you to

wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com. He believes in giving T3 directly or using

Thyrocare, a herbal remedy designed to re-regulate the thyroid and get the

body temp. back to normal. Often when the thyroid is disregulated it has

difficulty converting t4 to t3.

Phil

Re: Digest Number 730