confused

[Guest guest]

Hi Marta!

I had the same reaction when reading this! I was on the phone with my sister

and said to her, " I cannot believe there is a doctor out there who is *THIS*

ignorant!!!!!! " Tell me it isn't so.........

Hugs,

Chrissy Ü

In a message dated 1/8/99 9:17:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, mlmccoy@...

writes:

<< Am I reading this email right? Are you saying that an Infectious disease

doctor told you that you can't have Lyme because it does not run in your

family???? Does he not know that this disease is caused by the bite of a

tick???? Please tell me I have read this wrong.....

Stunned..

Marta >>

[Guest guest]

Anne,

Don't give up.. That doctor is a JERK plain and simly. It's scarey when you

know more than the doctor!!! I'm not a doc, but it sure sounds like lyme to

me. Plus you have a positive blood test. You should find another doctor.

Good luck,

Chrisitne

[Guest guest]

And by all means, send him away. You don't need this hassle.

On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:18:31 -0500 " Marta McCoy " <mlmccoy@...>

writes:

>From: " Marta McCoy " <mlmccoy@...>

>

>Anne,

> Am I reading this email right? Are you saying that an Infectious

>disease

>doctor told you that you can't have Lyme because it does not run in

>your

>family???? Does he not know that this disease is caused by the bite

>of a

>tick???? Please tell me I have read this wrong.....

>Stunned..

>Marta

>

>PS Send him a copy of the Lyme culture study that Lovette posted.

>

>

>

>>From: Anne Marie <amrhodes@...>

>>

>>I'm actually so confused, so twisted, its not a good feeling. I have

>>heard of getting false negatives but a false positive?! Has anyone

>else

>>had that problem? I can't believe an Infectious Disease Doctor told

>me

>>that since Lyme doesn't run in the family and of all the symptoms I

>have

>>described that he doesn't think I have lyme.

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Anne,

Am I reading this email right? Are you saying that an Infectious disease

doctor told you that you can't have Lyme because it does not run in your

family???? Does he not know that this disease is caused by the bite of a

tick???? Please tell me I have read this wrong.....

Stunned..

Marta

PS Send him a copy of the Lyme culture study that Lovette posted.

>From: Anne Marie <amrhodes@...>

>

>I'm actually so confused, so twisted, its not a good feeling. I have

>heard of getting false negatives but a false positive?! Has anyone else

>had that problem? I can't believe an Infectious Disease Doctor told me

>that since Lyme doesn't run in the family and of all the symptoms I have

>described that he doesn't think I have lyme.

[Guest guest]

Yes, there is a doctor out there that is " THAT IGNORANT " . I can't

even believe he is an Infectious Disease Doctor.

I am just about to give up and just go with it.

[Guest guest]

Hi Anne,

Yes, much of the literature talks about false positives all the time. I think

if you are positive, you have Lyme expecially with all the clinical symptoms,

If you can see if you can find a Lyme Literate doctor. Even the CDC states it

is a clinical diagnosis. Their criteris is for surveilance only. Does your

doctor have a copy of Dr. Burrscano's treatment guide. If not I can mail you

one or you ca n get it on the internet. Also a condensed version is in Conn's

Current therapy 1997, which most doctors go to for reference. Good Luck, Let

us know,

Hugs,

Connie

[Guest guest]

Actually, I think the infectious disease doctors are the worst. When I had to

go to one, I had ACA around my neck from lyme. He said it was the light

coming thru his window. I just thought, buddy, I might have Lyme , but I am

not that stupid!!!!

Connie

[Guest guest]

Anne, Drs. will tell you anything when they can't come up with a dx. Don't

let them push you around. I was told that all my numbness, fatigue, muscle

fatigue, headaches ect..ect were from anxiety. I kept plunging and have

gotten to the point after 18 months of finally finding out that I have

babesia, and very possibly lyme. Be strong, tell that quack that any one who

feels that terrible all the time will defiantly experience anxiety and

depression for it is terrible not knowing what is the route to the problem.

The last doc that told me it was due to those reason found out that I felt the

only major stress in my life was dealing with Drs. who can't own up to the

fact of not knowing what the problem was, and that I was about to relieve some

of it by never seeing him again. Keep your chin up, you just need to find the

right dr.

My thoughts are with you

keep your chin up.....you must be your own advocate for no one is gonna do

that for you.

Take Care

Amy

[Guest guest]

Your posting... I see this one lol... Sometimes if you just joined they will

monitor your emails, so that if someone joins that is improper will be

removed... Its usually for a while...

Love and peace always,

Shaun and Barb...

[Guest guest]

Hi areb_1 and welcome,

If you did your labs after you put on the gel it can spike up your lads men on

that dose don't have levels this high. I tell men when they get up take a

shower go do there labs then put on the gels. If you can't do this take a

shower getting the old gel off your body and when your put on the gel keep it

off the area they take the blood so your labs are good.

Dr.'s see this and tell men to lower there dose and they crash.

Now your levels of Estradiol were a little high enough to maybe cause a problem.

Sore and hard nipples or breast tenderness is high Estradiol levels. I gage my

levels by my night time and morning wood when I have good strong hard wood in my

sleep I know my levels are good. As my levels go up I get weaker wood and as it

gets to high I get ED.

Now that you lowered your dose your Estradiol levels can come down Estradiol is

made from Testosterone and as we add it to the body it can go up.

We keep it down taking arimidex or Indolplex/DIM here is some info about a cut

and paste.

================================

How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your

to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to

make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on

your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I

went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or

how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low

until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your

night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you

get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you

can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to

cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge

razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your

levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day

after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said

>90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time

and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the

day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could

not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the

Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex

my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we

went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was

on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low

you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels

back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after

playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3

days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down

so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with

lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your

lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down

from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need

..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this

to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading

back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets

me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

=================================

ALL ABOUT DIM.

Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s

out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose

not get killed in your stomach when you take it.

Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which

promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

in this link it's full of links about it.

http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work

open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps

to keep it from getting killed in your stomach.

The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM.

http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html

http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\

xt-dim

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.estrobalance.net/

http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71

http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html

http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\

Code=156497

http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \

utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\

019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA

http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\

ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336

http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html

How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2

weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high

you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml.

When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong

it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what

I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going

down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on

the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but

your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200

to 300 points.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: areb_1 <areb_1@...>

> Subject: confused

>

> Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:23 AM

> Hi. I'm new here but hoping maybe you

> could help me out.

>

> I've been taking testim for about 3 years. I take 1 1/2

> tubes daily (7.5 grams). Recently, I was experiencing some

> breast tenderness and libido problems, so I had some labs

> done. My estrodial came back at 29  (which I think is

> relatively OK, since the range is like 13-54), but my total

> T. was 1150! I can't recall the exact number for the free T

> but it was very high too.

>

> I'm a little skeptical of that T. reading because the last

> time I was tested (about 8 months ago, on the same dose) it

> was 600, and I know that false highs are common with the

> gel. Still, this test was done in the late afternoon--at

> least 7 hrs. after I applied the gel--and I guess the high

> result would explain the breast tenderness, right?

>

> Anyway, I pretty confused about what to do now. My

> endocrinologist recommended (though didn't require) that I

> reduce the dose. So for about the past 3 weeks I've been

> taking only 5 grams (1 tube). This was going OK for a while,

> but the past week has been rough--I pretty much crash in the

> late afternoon, and some days it feels like I haven't put on

> anything at all. And I still occasionally feel the breast

> tenderness (though less so that before).

>

> Anyone had any experience like this or have any advice?

> Could my levels really have gotten that high on 7.5 grams of

> the gel? What could be causing the breast tenderness?

>

> Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil, thanks so much for the prompt reply. I don't think my Dr. would prescribe

arimidex since my E2 levels are technically within normal, so I'll look into

DIM. Are there any dangers to taking DIM?

 

Also, would you think I should go back up to the higher dose? I'm definitely

feeling pretty poorly on the lower dose (even if it has brought down the E2). Or

do I just need to give my body time to adjust?

 

(I'm beginning to think I may need to take a leave of absence from work--that's

how low I feel right now.)

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

> From: areb_1 <areb_1@...>

> Subject: confused

>

> Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:23 AM

> Hi. I'm new here but hoping maybe you

> could help me out.

>

> I've been taking testim for about 3 years. I take 1 1/2

> tubes daily (7.5 grams). Recently, I was experiencing some

> breast tenderness and libido problems, so I had some labs

> done. My estrodial came back at 29  (which I think is

> relatively OK, since the range is like 13-54), but my total

> T. was 1150! I can't recall the exact number for the free T

> but it was very high too.

>

> I'm a little skeptical of that T. reading because the last

> time I was tested (about 8 months ago, on the same dose) it

> was 600, and I know that false highs are common with the

> gel. Still, this test was done in the late afternoon--at

> least 7 hrs. after I applied the gel--and I guess the high

> result would explain the breast tenderness, right?

>

> Anyway, I pretty confused about what to do now. My

> endocrinologist recommended (though didn't require) that I

> reduce the dose. So for about the past 3 weeks I've been

> taking only 5 grams (1 tube). This was going OK for a while,

> but the past week has been rough--I pretty much crash in the

> late afternoon, and some days it feels like I haven't put on

> anything at all. And I still occasionally feel the breast

> tenderness (though less so that before).

>

> Anyone had any experience like this or have any advice?

> Could my levels really have gotten that high on 7.5 grams of

> the gel? What could be causing the breast tenderness?

>

> Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

No problems taking DIM but one you can make your Estradiol go down to low but

when this happens you will not be able to get it even taking a pill like Viagra.

So if this happens just stop taking the DIM when your wood works again try going

back on it but cut the table in half. Yes go I would go back up on your dose.

If your Dr. is OK with this call him I don't like doing anything without telling

my Dr. I you did your labs after putting on the gel and you think it was on the

spot you did you labs just tell him. My Dr. has seen so many bad labs we never

change anything on one lab it might be a bad lab test.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: areb_1 <areb_1@...>

> > Subject: confused

> >

> > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:23 AM

> > Hi. I'm new here but hoping maybe you

> > could help me out.

> >

> > I've been taking testim for about 3 years. I take 1

> 1/2

> > tubes daily (7.5 grams). Recently, I was experiencing

> some

> > breast tenderness and libido problems, so I had some

> labs

> > done. My estrodial came back at 29  (which I think

> is

> > relatively OK, since the range is like 13-54), but my

> total

> > T. was 1150! I can't recall the exact number for the

> free T

> > but it was very high too.

> >

> > I'm a little skeptical of that T. reading because the

> last

> > time I was tested (about 8 months ago, on the same

> dose) it

> > was 600, and I know that false highs are common with

> the

> > gel. Still, this test was done in the late

> afternoon--at

> > least 7 hrs. after I applied the gel--and I guess the

> high

> > result would explain the breast tenderness, right?

> >

> > Anyway, I pretty confused about what to do now. My

> > endocrinologist recommended (though didn't require)

> that I

> > reduce the dose. So for about the past 3 weeks I've

> been

> > taking only 5 grams (1 tube). This was going OK for a

> while,

> > but the past week has been rough--I pretty much crash

> in the

> > late afternoon, and some days it feels like I haven't

> put on

> > anything at all. And I still occasionally feel the

> breast

> > tenderness (though less so that before).

> >

> > Anyone had any experience like this or have any

> advice?

> > Could my levels really have gotten that high on 7.5

> grams of

> > the gel? What could be causing the breast tenderness?

>

> >

> > Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks again. I've already ordered the DIM.

 

My Dr. suggested that I reduce the dose but he said I could keep it at the

higher rate if that worked better in terms of how I was feeling and that we

would test again in September. But I may call him anyway this week just to keep

him posted.

 

I have no idea whether to trust that lab result or not. I did put the gel on

that morning but, as I mentioned, the test was done some 7 hours later. Since I

had been experiencing some weird symptoms--i.e., the breast tenderness, libido

problems--I just know something was off, so the high reading sort of made

sense. 

 

One more question--sorry to take so much of you're time; you're very generous:

Do you know what would explain the sensation I have of my T crashing late in the

day. I generally feel decent in the a.m. and early afternoon, but then I often

have a major drop in mood and libido--and erectile functioning--in the later

afternoon or early evening through the rest of the day. It's as if the medicine

just sort of wears off. Would estrogen cause that? Or is it possible my body

just absorbs the T too quickly?

 

>

> > From: areb_1 <areb_1@...>

> > Subject: confused

> >

> > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:23 AM

> > Hi. I'm new here but hoping maybe you

> > could help me out.

> >

> > I've been taking testim for about 3 years. I take 1

> 1/2

> > tubes daily (7.5 grams). Recently, I was experiencing

> some

> > breast tenderness and libido problems, so I had some

> labs

> > done. My estrodial came back at 29  (which I think

> is

> > relatively OK, since the range is like 13-54), but my

> total

> > T. was 1150! I can't recall the exact number for the

> free T

> > but it was very high too.

> >

> > I'm a little skeptical of that T. reading because the

> last

> > time I was tested (about 8 months ago, on the same

> dose) it

> > was 600, and I know that false highs are common with

> the

> > gel. Still, this test was done in the late

> afternoon--at

> > least 7 hrs. after I applied the gel--and I guess the

> high

> > result would explain the breast tenderness, right?

> >

> > Anyway, I pretty confused about what to do now. My

> > endocrinologist recommended (though didn't require)

> that I

> > reduce the dose. So for about the past 3 weeks I've

> been

> > taking only 5 grams (1 tube). This was going OK for a

> while,

> > but the past week has been rough--I pretty much crash

> in the

> > late afternoon, and some days it feels like I haven't

> put on

> > anything at all. And I still occasionally feel the

> breast

> > tenderness (though less so that before).

> >

> > Anyone had any experience like this or have any

> advice?

> > Could my levels really have gotten that high on 7.5

> grams of

> > the gel? What could be causing the breast tenderness?

>

> >

> > Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Here is what I have found out after being on gels for yrs. I never had higher

levels my Dr. would give me shots every 2 weeks to keep my levels up. This

helped but drove up Estradiol and this takes away any thing good taking T dose.

Also on gels I had a lot of joint and muscle pain so with some men the gels

don't support the joints and muscles in men like me having T go through the skin

I was house bound for yrs in a low of pain until we figured this out.

When I switched to just shots every week my pain stopped in a shot time. I also

added HCG to the mix this gets your testis working as best they can and keeps

them from getting smaller.

So going by Dr. 's TRT: A Recipe for Success and his HCG Update you stay

leveled across the day.

Go to his site and read this he puts this out there free for you and your Dr.

www.allthingsmale.com

If you still feel with way adding in HCG shots every 3 days 250 IU's each.

Check your Cortisol levels you could have Adrenals that are over worked read

about it in this link.

http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/

Do a 4x's in a day Saliva test a lot of us have this problem from being low on T

for so long it tears down ones Adrenals.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > From: areb_1 <areb_1@...>

> > > Subject: confused

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:23 AM

> > > Hi. I'm new here but hoping maybe you

> > > could help me out.

> > >

> > > I've been taking testim for about 3 years. I take

> 1

> > 1/2

> > > tubes daily (7.5 grams). Recently, I was

> experiencing

> > some

> > > breast tenderness and libido problems, so I had

> some

> > labs

> > > done. My estrodial came back at 29  (which I

> think

> > is

> > > relatively OK, since the range is like 13-54),

> but my

> > total

> > > T. was 1150! I can't recall the exact number for

> the

> > free T

> > > but it was very high too.

> > >

> > > I'm a little skeptical of that T. reading because

> the

> > last

> > > time I was tested (about 8 months ago, on the

> same

> > dose) it

> > > was 600, and I know that false highs are common

> with

> > the

> > > gel. Still, this test was done in the late

> > afternoon--at

> > > least 7 hrs. after I applied the gel--and I guess

> the

> > high

> > > result would explain the breast tenderness,

> right?

> > >

> > > Anyway, I pretty confused about what to do now.

> My

> > > endocrinologist recommended (though didn't

> require)

> > that I

> > > reduce the dose. So for about the past 3 weeks

> I've

> > been

> > > taking only 5 grams (1 tube). This was going OK

> for a

> > while,

> > > but the past week has been rough--I pretty much

> crash

> > in the

> > > late afternoon, and some days it feels like I

> haven't

> > put on

> > > anything at all. And I still occasionally feel

> the

> > breast

> > > tenderness (though less so that before).

> > >

> > > Anyone had any experience like this or have any

> > advice?

> > > Could my levels really have gotten that high on

> 7.5

> > grams of

> > > the gel? What could be causing the breast

> tenderness?

> >

> > >

> > > Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I'm definitely open to switching to injections--but when I tried it once before

it seemed to have very little effect on me. I only had one injection (at the

normal weekly dose)--I was really busy with work at the time so couldn't risk

having another bad week like that and went back to Testim. Is that a common

experience on the first injection? Does it take a while for it to build up in

your system (even if you already been on a gel for a while)?

> >

> > > From: areb_1 <areb_1@...>

> > > Subject: confused

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:23 AM

> > > Hi. I'm new here but hoping maybe you

> > > could help me out.

> > >

> > > I've been taking testim for about 3 years. I take

> 1

> > 1/2

> > > tubes daily (7.5 grams). Recently, I was

> experiencing

> > some

> > > breast tenderness and libido problems, so I had

> some

> > labs

> > > done. My estrodial came back at 29  (which I

> think

> > is

> > > relatively OK, since the range is like 13-54),

> but my

> > total

> > > T. was 1150! I can't recall the exact number for

> the

> > free T

> > > but it was very high too.

> > >

> > > I'm a little skeptical of that T. reading because

> the

> > last

> > > time I was tested (about 8 months ago, on the

> same

> > dose) it

> > > was 600, and I know that false highs are common

> with

> > the

> > > gel. Still, this test was done in the late

> > afternoon--at

> > > least 7 hrs. after I applied the gel--and I guess

> the

> > high

> > > result would explain the breast tenderness,

> right?

> > >

> > > Anyway, I pretty confused about what to do now.

> My

> > > endocrinologist recommended (though didn't

> require)

> > that I

> > > reduce the dose. So for about the past 3 weeks

> I've

> > been

> > > taking only 5 grams (1 tube). This was going OK

> for a

> > while,

> > > but the past week has been rough--I pretty much

> crash

> > in the

> > > late afternoon, and some days it feels like I

> haven't

> > put on

> > > anything at all. And I still occasionally feel

> the

> > breast

> > > tenderness (though less so that before).

> > >

> > > Anyone had any experience like this or have any

> > advice?

> > > Could my levels really have gotten that high on

> 7.5

> > grams of

> > > the gel? What could be causing the breast

> tenderness?

> >

> > >

> > > Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yes when your switching from one to the other on gels one needs to do the gels a

few days after the shot it can take 3 to 4 days to feel it. But as you get your

levels up high enough this is when the body starts to undo any damage done from

having low T. And you start to feel a little better everyday it's not over

night. Guys going around with levels in the upper 500's to mid 600's can't

believe how much better they feel going into the 800's if you don't try it how

do you ever know.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > >

> > > > From: areb_1 <areb_1@...>

> > > > Subject: confused

> > > >

> > > > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:23 AM

> > > > Hi. I'm new here but hoping maybe you

> > > > could help me out.

> > > >

> > > > I've been taking testim for about 3 years. I

> take

> > 1

> > > 1/2

> > > > tubes daily (7.5 grams). Recently, I was

> > experiencing

> > > some

> > > > breast tenderness and libido problems, so I

> had

> > some

> > > labs

> > > > done. My estrodial came back at 29  (which

> I

> > think

> > > is

> > > > relatively OK, since the range is like

> 13-54),

> > but my

> > > total

> > > > T. was 1150! I can't recall the exact number

> for

> > the

> > > free T

> > > > but it was very high too.

> > > >

> > > > I'm a little skeptical of that T. reading

> because

> > the

> > > last

> > > > time I was tested (about 8 months ago, on

> the

> > same

> > > dose) it

> > > > was 600, and I know that false highs are

> common

> > with

> > > the

> > > > gel. Still, this test was done in the late

> > > afternoon--at

> > > > least 7 hrs. after I applied the gel--and I

> guess

> > the

> > > high

> > > > result would explain the breast tenderness,

> > right?

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, I pretty confused about what to do

> now.

> > My

> > > > endocrinologist recommended (though didn't

> > require)

> > > that I

> > > > reduce the dose. So for about the past 3

> weeks

> > I've

> > > been

> > > > taking only 5 grams (1 tube). This was going

> OK

> > for a

> > > while,

> > > > but the past week has been rough--I pretty

> much

> > crash

> > > in the

> > > > late afternoon, and some days it feels like

> I

> > haven't

> > > put on

> > > > anything at all. And I still occasionally

> feel

> > the

> > > breast

> > > > tenderness (though less so that before).

> > > >

> > > > Anyone had any experience like this or have

> any

> > > advice?

> > > > Could my levels really have gotten that high

> on

> > 7.5

> > > grams of

> > > > the gel? What could be causing the breast

> > tenderness?

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Any help/suggestions would be much

> appreciated.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Phil, thanks for this info. You've given me a real sense of hope! I was so

hesitant to try the injections again because my first experience was so bad--but

maybe I just didn't do the transition correctly or give it enough time. I'll

talk to my Dr. And I'll check back in with you in a few weeks when I get all

this sorted out.

 

Thanks again.

 

> > >

> > > > From: areb_1 <areb_1@...>

> > > > Subject: confused

> > > >

> > > > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:23 AM

> > > > Hi. I'm new here but hoping maybe you

> > > > could help me out.

> > > >

> > > > I've been taking testim for about 3 years. I

> take

> > 1

> > > 1/2

> > > > tubes daily (7.5 grams). Recently, I was

> > experiencing

> > > some

> > > > breast tenderness and libido problems, so I

> had

> > some

> > > labs

> > > > done. My estrodial came back at 29  (which

> I

> > think

> > > is

> > > > relatively OK, since the range is like

> 13-54),

> > but my

> > > total

> > > > T. was 1150! I can't recall the exact number

> for

> > the

> > > free T

> > > > but it was very high too.

> > > >

> > > > I'm a little skeptical of that T. reading

> because

> > the

> > > last

> > > > time I was tested (about 8 months ago, on

> the

> > same

> > > dose) it

> > > > was 600, and I know that false highs are

> common

> > with

> > > the

> > > > gel. Still, this test was done in the late

> > > afternoon--at

> > > > least 7 hrs. after I applied the gel--and I

> guess

> > the

> > > high

> > > > result would explain the breast tenderness,

> > right?

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, I pretty confused about what to do

> now.

> > My

> > > > endocrinologist recommended (though didn't

> > require)

> > > that I

> > > > reduce the dose. So for about the past 3

> weeks

> > I've

> > > been

> > > > taking only 5 grams (1 tube). This was going

> OK

> > for a

> > > while,

> > > > but the past week has been rough--I pretty

> much

> > crash

> > > in the

> > > > late afternoon, and some days it feels like

> I

> > haven't

> > > put on

> > > > anything at all. And I still occasionally

> feel

> > the

> > > breast

> > > > tenderness (though less so that before).

> > > >

> > > > Anyone had any experience like this or have

> any

> > > advice?

> > > > Could my levels really have gotten that high

> on

> > 7.5

> > > grams of

> > > > the gel? What could be causing the breast

> > tenderness?

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Any help/suggestions would be much

> appreciated.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Plasma levels take 5-6 weeks to build

It takes up to 6 months to a year to repair at the receptor levels..

manipulation of e2 and thyroid in conjunction to TRT need to be heavily

monitored and they are not. Testim is better then androgel in fact that you can

have contact and exercise in 2 hours vs 6 hours. less junk you have to apply.

Also you have to rub it for a while this is major mistakes of application.

Compounded pharmacy are hit or miss with T-gels.That is why I prefer the shots

plus if you have hidden thyroid or adrenal condition then gels may not work

> > >

> > > > From: areb_1 <areb_1@...>

> > > > Subject: confused

> > > >

> > > > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:23 AM

> > > > Hi. I'm new here but hoping maybe you

> > > > could help me out.

> > > >

> > > > I've been taking testim for about 3 years. I take

> > 1

> > > 1/2

> > > > tubes daily (7.5 grams). Recently, I was

> > experiencing

> > > some

> > > > breast tenderness and libido problems, so I had

> > some

> > > labs

> > > > done. My estrodial came back at 29  (which I

> > think

> > > is

> > > > relatively OK, since the range is like 13-54),

> > but my

> > > total

> > > > T. was 1150! I can't recall the exact number for

> > the

> > > free T

> > > > but it was very high too.

> > > >

> > > > I'm a little skeptical of that T. reading because

> > the

> > > last

> > > > time I was tested (about 8 months ago, on the

> > same

> > > dose) it

> > > > was 600, and I know that false highs are common

> > with

> > > the

> > > > gel. Still, this test was done in the late

> > > afternoon--at

> > > > least 7 hrs. after I applied the gel--and I guess

> > the

> > > high

> > > > result would explain the breast tenderness,

> > right?

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, I pretty confused about what to do now.

> > My

> > > > endocrinologist recommended (though didn't

> > require)

> > > that I

> > > > reduce the dose. So for about the past 3 weeks

> > I've

> > > been

> > > > taking only 5 grams (1 tube). This was going OK

> > for a

> > > while,

> > > > but the past week has been rough--I pretty much

> > crash

> > > in the

> > > > late afternoon, and some days it feels like I

> > haven't

> > > put on

> > > > anything at all. And I still occasionally feel

> > the

> > > breast

> > > > tenderness (though less so that before).

> > > >

> > > > Anyone had any experience like this or have any

> > > advice?

> > > > Could my levels really have gotten that high on

> > 7.5

> > > grams of

> > > > the gel? What could be causing the breast

> > tenderness?

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

If one is doing the shots it really depends on the amount given at the shot that

would determine the duration of when the gels could be applied. 50 mgs shot may

be 3-4 days 100 mgs shot more like 5-6 days then you have to take in

consideration the HCG as well. Which will change when one goes to gels to 250

every 3 or 2 day. screw that 100 ius a day crap. I know its more beneficial but

I tried it and I felt worse. It may work for some but did not for me. When GHRP

and hcg I am human pin cushion as is..

> > > >

> > > > > From: areb_1 <areb_1@...>

> > > > > Subject: confused

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:23 AM

> > > > > Hi. I'm new here but hoping maybe you

> > > > > could help me out.

> > > > >

> > > > > I've been taking testim for about 3 years. I

> > take

> > > 1

> > > > 1/2

> > > > > tubes daily (7.5 grams). Recently, I was

> > > experiencing

> > > > some

> > > > > breast tenderness and libido problems, so I

> > had

> > > some

> > > > labs

> > > > > done. My estrodial came back at 29  (which

> > I

> > > think

> > > > is

> > > > > relatively OK, since the range is like

> > 13-54),

> > > but my

> > > > total

> > > > > T. was 1150! I can't recall the exact number

> > for

> > > the

> > > > free T

> > > > > but it was very high too.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm a little skeptical of that T. reading

> > because

> > > the

> > > > last

> > > > > time I was tested (about 8 months ago, on

> > the

> > > same

> > > > dose) it

> > > > > was 600, and I know that false highs are

> > common

> > > with

> > > > the

> > > > > gel. Still, this test was done in the late

> > > > afternoon--at

> > > > > least 7 hrs. after I applied the gel--and I

> > guess

> > > the

> > > > high

> > > > > result would explain the breast tenderness,

> > > right?

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, I pretty confused about what to do

> > now.

> > > My

> > > > > endocrinologist recommended (though didn't

> > > require)

> > > > that I

> > > > > reduce the dose. So for about the past 3

> > weeks

> > > I've

> > > > been

> > > > > taking only 5 grams (1 tube). This was going

> > OK

> > > for a

> > > > while,

> > > > > but the past week has been rough--I pretty

> > much

> > > crash

> > > > in the

> > > > > late afternoon, and some days it feels like

> > I

> > > haven't

> > > > put on

> > > > > anything at all. And I still occasionally

> > feel

> > > the

> > > > breast

> > > > > tenderness (though less so that before).

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone had any experience like this or have

> > any

> > > > advice?

> > > > > Could my levels really have gotten that high

> > on

> > > 7.5

> > > > grams of

> > > > > the gel? What could be causing the breast

> > > tenderness?

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Any help/suggestions would be much

> > appreciated.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue,

    It sounds like you need a new Rheumy, I think he/she is the one who is

confused. Hope things work out.

Lori in AZ 

[Guest guest]

Can I add a 2nd vote for Lori's suggestion on a new rheumy? It sounds like the

doc is in over his head and trying to get you to leave. It's happened to me; I

think it's a way they can refuse to treat you without actually refusing to treat

you.

Janette in Indiana

[Guest guest]

thanks i was wondering that too, but there are no other rheumys around this area

and my gp won't help with the arthritis.

[Guest guest]

Thanks to you all i increased the protocol and my son is showing his gains

back.......he is still little hyper but can understand stuff,not so

confused...............but increasing the yeast protocol gave him mild

temperature............38.4

should i be worried

my yeast protocol is caprylic oil 2 tbsp

gse 10 drops...........i increased from 4 drops

probiotic at night.

gse also makes his bowels soft light yellow..............not normal brown.any

comments on that

thanks

kara

________________________________

From: Maggie <Mgds@...>

Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 8:18:25 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Confused

I agree with the others, this sounds like yeast to me. What is your yeast

protocol?

Also, you might try decreasing his dose the next round and seeing if that helps.

Maggied.

>

> Hello All

>

> We do Ac chelation for our son with 8.3mg dmsa , After our sons 6th round,he

is

>lost and confused and scripting like he used about a year ago.We started using

>mb12 and all this reduced,diet made things better and yeast treatment and first

>5 rounds of chelation bought great results.

>

> Just after this last round............nothing has changed except his bowels

are

>loose,they got softer with gse but during this round they are loose,he seems

>lost,loss in receptive language and inattentive.

> Is it common to notice negative reaction after a round

>

> first 5 rounds my son was doing so well that his teacher complimented him so

>many times......last 2 weeks he was participating in regular activities with

>peers for 1/2 day but last 2 days he seems to have lost all what he gained

>

> Im worried,Any help

>

> Kara

>

[Guest guest]

From my experience the light yellow is from Yeast, maybe die-off in your case.

TJ

________________________________

From: Olive Ginger <olive.ginger@...>

Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 10:32:08 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Confused

 

Thanks to you all i increased the protocol and my son is showing his gains

back.......he is still little hyper but can understand stuff,not so

confused...............but increasing the yeast protocol gave him mild

temperature............38.4

should i be worried

my yeast protocol is caprylic oil 2 tbsp

gse 10 drops...........i increased from 4 drops

probiotic at night.

gse also makes his bowels soft light yellow..............not normal brown.any

comments on that

thanks

kara

________________________________

From: Maggie <Mgds@...>

Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 8:18:25 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Confused

I agree with the others, this sounds like yeast to me. What is your yeast

protocol?

Also, you might try decreasing his dose the next round and seeing if that helps.

Maggied.

>

> Hello All

>

> We do Ac chelation for our son with 8.3mg dmsa , After our sons 6th round,he

is

>

>lost and confused and scripting like he used about a year ago.We started using

>mb12 and all this reduced,diet made things better and yeast treatment and first

>5 rounds of chelation bought great results.

>

> Just after this last round............nothing has changed except his bowels

are

>

>loose,they got softer with gse but during this round they are loose,he seems

>lost,loss in receptive language and inattentive.

> Is it common to notice negative reaction after a round

>

> first 5 rounds my son was doing so well that his teacher complimented him so

>many times......last 2 weeks he was participating in regular activities with

>peers for 1/2 day but last 2 days he seems to have lost all what he gained

>

> Im worried,Any help

>

> Kara

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like YEAST!

>

> Hello All

>

> We do Ac chelation for our son with 8.3mg dmsa , After our sons 6th round,he

is lost and confused and scripting like he used about a year ago.We started

using mb12 and all this reduced,diet made things better and yeast treatment and

first 5 rounds of chelation bought great results.

>

> Just after this last round............nothing has changed except his bowels

are loose,they got softer with gse but during this round they are loose,he seems

lost,loss in receptive language and inattentive.

> Is it common to notice negative reaction after a round

>

> first 5 rounds my son was doing so well that his teacher complimented him so

many times......last 2 weeks he was participating in regular activities with

peers for 1/2 day but last 2 days he seems to have lost all what he gained

>

> Im worried,Any help

>

> Kara

>