Re: Nature Alone?

[Guest guest]

On the same token I would like to argue that NO medicines have been

found to cure PA or to fix damaged or weaken joints. And also,

taking medications may help slow the inevitable but it sometimes

also cause a slew of side effects and in some cases, new diseases.

How many people with PA actually live for 20 years or more with no

disability or problems even with all the drugs pumped into us?

Comparing PA treatments to treatments for broken bones and cancer is

like comparing Football to Baseball. Yeah, they are both sports,

but more different than similiar. So of course we should be more

healthy to help ourselves. Same way Diabetics need to change their

diet and become more active. I think that would be a closer

comparision to our condition than cancer.

I don't think it is helpful to discourage people to try new

things...with the fact that medicine really can't help us, sometimes

it doesn't hurt to try new and different things. Even my own Dr

rolls her eyes but goes along with my own personal search for help.

Because she knows that she doesn't know the answers either.

We all feel very helpless right now and I think most people come on

here to have open ears listen to them and not make them feel crazy.

If I wanted to hear a lecture on how food can't help my arthritis

despite all the evidence on the contrary, then I would pay my co-pay

and talk with my Rheumy who couldn't tell me why someone like me has

flares when I eat cheese.

And until they find a bonifide medicial cure for PA, I don't think

we should rely 100% entirely on them especially since our own Drs.

will even admit their own ignorances on the effects of diet and

supplimentation on the human body.

[Editor's Note: People are on this list for all sorts of reasons and many

people are here to learn what has helped, and not helped, other people. One of

our purposes is to educate and educating means dispelling myths about cures.

Yes, PA is not a broken bone, however, the analogy was used to say that just as

food doesn't heal a broken bone, food doesn't cure PA. I have repeatedly said,

although you refuse to hear it for reasons unbeknown to me, that a good diet IS

part of treating PA because it is part of treating the whole person. However,

diet alone will not cure PA. I have also said, although you don't want to hear

this either, that medications will not cure PA. For many people, however,

medications may ease symptoms AND stem the progression of the disease and even

though you don't care a whit about this, a lot of people here do. You might wish

to find another forum more to your liking. Kathy F.]

>

> A good diet will improve a person's overall physical condition and

may help

> to ease some of the symptoms of the disease and the side effects

of the

> medication. Losing weight will reduce stress on joints weakened

and damaged by

> the disease. Therefore, everyone with PA would be well-advised

to follow a

> course of sound nutrition. HOWEVER, no food or dietary

supplement has been

> shown to cure PA. You would not rely on sprouts to cure a brain

tumor. You

> would not eat fish to cure heart disease. You would not expect

green leafy

> vegetables to treat your broken leg. It is similarly unwise to

rely on nutrition

> alone to treat PA when nutrition alone has not been shown - ever -

as a way to

> cure PA or to slow the progression of the disease. Being in the

best

> physical condition you can possibly be in will absolutely be of

tremendous help in

> treating any disease - but by itself - it will not cure a

disease. For all

> those who are considering dismissing medications as unnecessary,

please think

> once, twice, a thousand times of the risks you are exposing

yourself to by

> not taking medication to treat your disease. Kathy F.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

im very interested in anything you find on this. knowledge is everything. food

is what we feed our bodies with. there is so much evidence. let us know what you

discover. and lets keep this topic open. in my research into this, tomatoes and

any high acid food causes severe inflamation. so i try to stay away from it.

lessens the flairs.

casey

[Editor's Note: Tomatoes are rich in antioxidants and Vitamin C and unless you

are allergic to tomatoes or other nightshades, it has not been shown to cause

inflammation so what you are really doing is going without antioxidants and

important vitamins. If, like Lorrie, I mean Casey, you are allergic to

tomatoes, then staying away from them is, of course a good thing, but all 2900

of us should not necessarily conclude that because Lorrie is allergic that we

are too. Kathy F.]

Kat <vicenza77@...> wrote:

On the same token I would like to argue that NO medicines have been

found to cure PA or to fix damaged or weaken joints. And also,

taking medications may help slow the inevitable but it sometimes

also cause a slew of side effects and in some cases, new diseases.

How many people with PA actually live for 20 years or more with no

disability or problems even with all the drugs pumped into us?

Comparing PA treatments to treatments for broken bones and cancer is

like comparing Football to Baseball. Yeah, they are both sports,

but more different than similiar. So of course we should be more

healthy to help ourselves. Same way Diabetics need to change their

diet and become more active. I think that would be a closer

comparision to our condition than cancer.

I don't think it is helpful to discourage people to try new

things...with the fact that medicine really can't help us, sometimes

it doesn't hurt to try new and different things. Even my own Dr

rolls her eyes but goes along with my own personal search for help.

Because she knows that she doesn't know the answers either.

We all feel very helpless right now and I think most people come on

here to have open ears listen to them and not make them feel crazy.

If I wanted to hear a lecture on how food can't help my arthritis

despite all the evidence on the contrary, then I would pay my co-pay

and talk with my Rheumy who couldn't tell me why someone like me has

flares when I eat cheese.

And until they find a bonifide medicial cure for PA, I don't think

we should rely 100% entirely on them especially since our own Drs.

will even admit their own ignorances on the effects of diet and

supplimentation on the human body.

[Editor's Note: People are on this list for all sorts of reasons and many people

are here to learn what has helped, and not helped, other people. One of our

purposes is to educate and educating means dispelling myths about cures. Yes, PA

is not a broken bone, however, the analogy was used to say that just as food

doesn't heal a broken bone, food doesn't cure PA. I have repeatedly said,

although you refuse to hear it for reasons unbeknown to me, that a good diet IS

part of treating PA because it is part of treating the whole person. However,

diet alone will not cure PA. I have also said, although you don't want to hear

this either, that medications will not cure PA. For many people, however,

medications may ease symptoms AND stem the progression of the disease and even

though you don't care a whit about this, a lot of people here do. You might wish

to find another forum more to your liking. Kathy F.]

>

> A good diet will improve a person's overall physical condition and

may help

> to ease some of the symptoms of the disease and the side effects

of the

> medication. Losing weight will reduce stress on joints weakened

and damaged by

> the disease. Therefore, everyone with PA would be well-advised

to follow a

> course of sound nutrition. HOWEVER, no food or dietary

supplement has been

> shown to cure PA. You would not rely on sprouts to cure a brain

tumor. You

> would not eat fish to cure heart disease. You would not expect

green leafy

> vegetables to treat your broken leg. It is similarly unwise to

rely on nutrition

> alone to treat PA when nutrition alone has not been shown - ever -

as a way to

> cure PA or to slow the progression of the disease. Being in the

best

> physical condition you can possibly be in will absolutely be of

tremendous help in

> treating any disease - but by itself - it will not cure a

disease. For all

> those who are considering dismissing medications as unnecessary,

please think

> once, twice, a thousand times of the risks you are exposing

yourself to by

> not taking medication to treat your disease. Kathy F.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

im sorry for any confusion. im not allergic to tomatoes. i eat them all the

time. its just if i have too many in a short period, like pizza, spaghetti,

chili, or fresh from garden, i do feel pretty bad. so i just try not to eat too

many. its like too much chocolate gives you a stomach ache. i dont have food

allergies. at least not yet.

[Editor's Note: Most responsible people who have studied nutrition agree with

you that eating too much of anything over a short period of time is not

necessarily a good thing. That is very different from saying " ...tomatoes and

any high acid food causes severe inflammation. " The key to a healthy diet is

balance, moderation, quantity control and avoidance of foods with demonstrably

poor nutritional value. Tomatoes, when eaten as part of a balanced diet, can

help prevent colon cancer due to their antioxidant properties, so unless people

are allergic, there is no reason to avoid tomatoes and apparently plenty of

reasons to have tomatoes in moderation. Thanks for the clarification. Kathy F.

casey miller <denise05775@...> wrote: im very interested in

anything you find on this. knowledge is everything. food is what we feed our

bodies with. there is so much evidence. let us know what you discover. and lets

keep this topic open. in my research into this, tomatoes and any high acid food

causes severe inflamation. so i try to stay away from it. lessens the flairs.

casey

[Editor's Note: Tomatoes are rich in antioxidants and Vitamin C and unless you

are allergic to tomatoes or other nightshades, it has not been shown to cause

inflammation so what you are really doing is going without antioxidants and

important vitamins. If, like Lorrie, I mean Casey, you are allergic to tomatoes,

then staying away from them is, of course a good thing, but all 2900 of us

should not necessarily conclude that because Lorrie is allergic that we are too.

Kathy F.]

Kat <vicenza77@...> wrote:

On the same token I would like to argue that NO medicines have been

found to cure PA or to fix damaged or weaken joints. And also,

taking medications may help slow the inevitable but it sometimes

also cause a slew of side effects and in some cases, new diseases.

How many people with PA actually live for 20 years or more with no

disability or problems even with all the drugs pumped into us?

Comparing PA treatments to treatments for broken bones and cancer is

like comparing Football to Baseball. Yeah, they are both sports,

but more different than similiar. So of course we should be more

healthy to help ourselves. Same way Diabetics need to change their

diet and become more active. I think that would be a closer

comparision to our condition than cancer.

I don't think it is helpful to discourage people to try new

things...with the fact that medicine really can't help us, sometimes

it doesn't hurt to try new and different things. Even my own Dr

rolls her eyes but goes along with my own personal search for help.

Because she knows that she doesn't know the answers either.

We all feel very helpless right now and I think most people come on

here to have open ears listen to them and not make them feel crazy.

If I wanted to hear a lecture on how food can't help my arthritis

despite all the evidence on the contrary, then I would pay my co-pay

and talk with my Rheumy who couldn't tell me why someone like me has

flares when I eat cheese.

And until they find a bonifide medicial cure for PA, I don't think

we should rely 100% entirely on them especially since our own Drs.

will even admit their own ignorances on the effects of diet and

supplimentation on the human body.

[Editor's Note: People are on this list for all sorts of reasons and many people

are here to learn what has helped, and not helped, other people. One of our

purposes is to educate and educating means dispelling myths about cures. Yes, PA

is not a broken bone, however, the analogy was used to say that just as food

doesn't heal a broken bone, food doesn't cure PA. I have repeatedly said,

although you refuse to hear it for reasons unbeknown to me, that a good diet IS

part of treating PA because it is part of treating the whole person. However,

diet alone will not cure PA. I have also said, although you don't want to hear

this either, that medications will not cure PA. For many people, however,

medications may ease symptoms AND stem the progression of the disease and even

though you don't care a whit about this, a lot of people here do. You might wish

to find another forum more to your liking. Kathy F.]

>

> A good diet will improve a person's overall physical condition and

may help

> to ease some of the symptoms of the disease and the side effects

of the

> medication. Losing weight will reduce stress on joints weakened

and damaged by

> the disease. Therefore, everyone with PA would be well-advised

to follow a

> course of sound nutrition. HOWEVER, no food or dietary

supplement has been

> shown to cure PA. You would not rely on sprouts to cure a brain

tumor. You

> would not eat fish to cure heart disease. You would not expect

green leafy

> vegetables to treat your broken leg. It is similarly unwise to

rely on nutrition

> alone to treat PA when nutrition alone has not been shown - ever -

as a way to

> cure PA or to slow the progression of the disease. Being in the

best

> physical condition you can possibly be in will absolutely be of

tremendous help in

> treating any disease - but by itself - it will not cure a

disease. For all

> those who are considering dismissing medications as unnecessary,

please think

> once, twice, a thousand times of the risks you are exposing

yourself to by

> not taking medication to treat your disease. Kathy F.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi!

My best suggestion for anyone who thinks that food may irritate or

cause/worsen a flare is to keep a food journal. I did that and it

was only after I brought this food diary to my Dr did I find out

that I was lactose intolerant. I have noticed that since I have

been sneaking in a slice of pizza here and a cheeseburger there I

have had flares a few hours later and sometimes lasting into the

next day. I was a bonifide cheese freak back in the day and that

was last thing I would have thought was causing all my digestive

problems...so who knows, maybe it isn't even tomatoes but something

else that can be found in pizza, salads, etc...or maybe it is. You

will know for sure if you keep track and listen to your body!

Hope that helps!

im very interested

[Guest guest]

thats a great idea. i can never remember what i eat from one day to the next so

i will start one right away. thanks for the advice! (im also a cheese freak) so

i hope its not the dairy

Kat <vicenza77@...> wrote: Hi!

My best suggestion for anyone who thinks that food may irritate or

cause/worsen a flare is to keep a food journal. I did that and it

was only after I brought this food diary to my Dr did I find out

that I was lactose intolerant. I have noticed that since I have

been sneaking in a slice of pizza here and a cheeseburger there I

have had flares a few hours later and sometimes lasting into the

next day. I was a bonifide cheese freak back in the day and that

was last thing I would have thought was causing all my digestive

problems...so who knows, maybe it isn't even tomatoes but something

else that can be found in pizza, salads, etc...or maybe it is. You

will know for sure if you keep track and listen to your body!

Hope that helps!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/18/2006 2:43:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

vicenza77@... writes:

I don't think it is helpful to discourage people to try new

things...with the fact that medicine really can't help us, sometimes

it doesn't hurt to try new and different things. Even my own Dr

rolls her eyes but goes along with my own personal search for help.

Because she knows that she doesn't know the answers either

Can I make a suggestion? The newsletter from the Psoriasis Foundation of

America has a section called " It Works for Me " and they don't endorse anything

on that page (nor do they not endorse, but sometimes put a warning to check

with your dr). I think where we all struggle on this board is with

definitives...it's hard with PA given everyone's unique condition and response

to

various treatments.

Perhaps if we phrase things in terms of what has worked for each of us

individually vs. making statements about what we should and shouldn't do, that

would ease everyone's concerns with alternative treatment ideas.

That said, I think we also need to recognize that our moderators have an

obligation to ensure we as a board don't discourage thoroughly researched

medications, and that we don't inadvertently make someone feel it's OK to not

seek

medical advice. Sadly, there isn't much research supporting any treatments

beyond medications; my personal opinion is that this is due to lack of profit

potential. However, if there was a non-medication miracle cure, none of us

would need this forum anymore:-)

[Guest guest]

I have noticed that since I have

> been sneaking in a slice of pizza here and a cheeseburger there I

> have had flares a few hours later and sometimes lasting into the

> next day.

I love potatoes, and have eaten potato stuff almost every other day

for a week... I am miserable!! I don't know why this simple healthy

vegetable has to be one of my triggers....

Dairy is too, but cheese is one of the few things I *can* tolerate.

Butter is the *worst*.

-Marietta

[Guest guest]

Hi

I totally agree with you...we can suggest things to our Dr. but by being careful

as we do need them. When they get the feeling we are trying to make our own

diagnose, this is one reason they tend not to pay attention to us the next time

around. Plus we do need the medications as well. We live in a painful world

and need the relief. Not only that but what works for me might not work for

you. Everyone is different too and we do not know the other persons complete

history and not doctors to be able to diagnose. We can however help prevent it

from getting worse.

Like one person said on here today, exercise and proper diet....I aplaud them

100%. It may be hard to exercise but even by doing in moderation helps and

increases gradually.

juliehope@...

http://www.4betrhealth.com

p.s. Does anyone know what month is dedicated to Arthritis?

Re: [ ] Re: Nature Alone?

In a message dated 10/18/2006 2:43:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

vicenza77@... writes:

I don't think it is helpful to discourage people to try new

things...with the fact that medicine really can't help us, sometimes

it doesn't hurt to try new and different things. Even my own Dr

rolls her eyes but goes along with my own personal search for help.

Because she knows that she doesn't know the answers either

Can I make a suggestion? The newsletter from the Psoriasis Foundation of

America has a section called " It Works for Me " and they don't endorse anything

on that page (nor do they not endorse, but sometimes put a warning to check

with your dr). I think where we all struggle on this board is with

definitives...it's hard with PA given everyone's unique condition and response

to

various treatments.

Perhaps if we phrase things in terms of what has worked for each of us

individually vs. making statements about what we should and shouldn't do, that

would ease everyone's concerns with alternative treatment ideas.

That said, I think we also need to recognize that our moderators have an

obligation to ensure we as a board don't discourage thoroughly researched

medications, and that we don't inadvertently make someone feel it's OK to not

seek

medical advice. Sadly, there isn't much research supporting any treatments

beyond medications; my personal opinion is that this is due to lack of profit

potential. However, if there was a non-medication miracle cure, none of us

would need this forum anymore:-)

[Guest guest]

That would suck for me...I LOVE potatoes!! In fact, if I ever had to

eliminate potatoes and pasta...I wouldn't be able to eat!!

> I have noticed that since I have

> > been sneaking in a slice of pizza here and a cheeseburger there I

> > have had flares a few hours later and sometimes lasting into the

> > next day.

>

> I love potatoes, and have eaten potato stuff almost every other day

> for a week... I am miserable!! I don't know why this simple healthy

> vegetable has to be one of my triggers....

> Dairy is too, but cheese is one of the few things I *can* tolerate.

> Butter is the *worst*.

> -Marietta

>

[Guest guest]

Eloquently stated.

GO CARDS!!!!!!!!!! YAY!! 1-0 World Series!!!!

>

>

> In a message dated 10/18/2006 2:43:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> vicenza77@... writes:

>

> I don't think it is helpful to discourage people to try new

> things...with the fact that medicine really can't help us,

sometimes

> it doesn't hurt to try new and different things. Even my own Dr

> rolls her eyes but goes along with my own personal search for

help.

> Because she knows that she doesn't know the answers either

>

>

> Can I make a suggestion? The newsletter from the Psoriasis

Foundation of

> America has a section called " It Works for Me " and they don't

endorse anything

> on that page (nor do they not endorse, but sometimes put a warning

to check

> with your dr). I think where we all struggle on this board is

with

> definitives...it's hard with PA given everyone's unique condition

and response to

> various treatments.

>

> Perhaps if we phrase things in terms of what has worked for each

of us

> individually vs. making statements about what we should and

shouldn't do, that

> would ease everyone's concerns with alternative treatment ideas.

>

> That said, I think we also need to recognize that our moderators

have an

> obligation to ensure we as a board don't discourage thoroughly

researched

> medications, and that we don't inadvertently make someone feel

it's OK to not seek

> medical advice. Sadly, there isn't much research supporting any

treatments

> beyond medications; my personal opinion is that this is due to

lack of profit

> potential. However, if there was a non-medication miracle cure,

none of us

> would need this forum anymore:-)

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- Kat <vicenza77@...> wrote:

> Eloquently stated.

>

> GO CARDS!!!!!!!!!! YAY!! 1-0 World Series!!!!

>

GO TIGERRRRS!!! ROAR!! 1-1 World Series!!!!

jane (in northeast Michigan)

__________________________________________________