Natural Remedies - Cat's Claw, Curcumin, Pelu and others

[Guest guest]

Hi all!

> A Doctor prescribes us a medication and we jump online and research it. We

> find out everything there is to know about it and its side effects. We may

> or may not choose to take the recommended medication do to the side effects

> we learn about in our research.

>

> One of our friends at work recommends a great natural remedy that is said to

> be the best thing out there. Since it is natural, it must be good for us.

> Right?

Of course, NOT right! Nature has lots of poisons ready for us to try.

Curare is a 100% natural plant extract, and a dose of just a few

milligrams will kill you. Many other such substances exist.

I think we should not make such a big difference between " natural

medicines " and " school medicine " , or however you would like to call it.

Both groups contain lots of substances which might help in some cases

and might damage in others, depending on the person, the dosage, etc.

The main differences are probably these:

1) Medicines produced by big companies usually come in precisely

measured doses and constant quality, while natural ones often are

unreliably dosed and vary in their potency.

2) The official medicines usually have more research to back them up and

establish their side effects, while natural ones are backed by a wealth

of anecdotical knowledge but little formal research, so that true effect

can mix up with urban myth and side effects might escape close scrutiny.

3) Official medicines usually require a doctor's prescription, while

natural ones usually can be bought and used without such control. This

makes the use of official medicines safer, but that of natural ones more

flexible and more apt for experimentation.

4) Natural medicines tend to be a lot less expensive!

The fourth point is actually the most important to me, because in many

cases it plainly rules out the use of school medicine! For example, if I

want to take an TNF-Alpha blocker to try and control my PA that way, all

the choices I know are just four: Remicade, Humira, Enbrel, and

Curcumin. The first three are synthetic high tech medicines that are

incredibly expensive and totally out of reach for my pocket that even if

my life depended 100% on them, I couldn't buy them. The last is a humble

root extract, also made synthetically and used in small quantities in

many foods, which used in large doses seems to have TNF-Alpha blocking

effect. I don't know for sure what nasty side effects it might have, but

many people are taking heavy doses of curcumin and they don't seem to be

damaged by it, so there is anecdotical evidence that the side effects

are tolerable.

Of course, I would prefer to use a well studied and precisely dosed

medicine, but if it costs so much that the treatment vastly exceeds my

total income, there is just no way to do this. Curcumin, which would

cost about 12 dollars per month of treatment at the dose required, looks

a lot more attractive and after some more research without turning up

anything too negative I think I will try it.

For Carol:

> I have been taking Cat's Claw for about 6 weeks now. 4 500mg a day. I get

> it at GNC.

> My question for those who have been on this herb longer is .. Does anyone

> experience stomach cramps? I have had very bad cramps

> unlike any I have had for many years.

Cat's Claw is basically wood! And I don't suppose you have the stomach

of a termite, so it's natural that you will have trouble digesting that

stuff!

The main problem seems to be the high level of tannin contained in Cat's

Claw. The ability to process tannin depends strongly of the acidity in

the stomach. More acid helps. That's why one should never take Cat's

Claw together with antacids. If your stomach isn't acid enough, you

might help it by drinking some lemon juice, eating salad with lots of

vinegar, etc.

That is, if you really want to keep taking Cat's Claw! I have been

researching this plant lately, and I would be very hesitant to try it.

While it seems to have an antiinflammatory effect which is good for us,

it is also an IMMUNOSTIMULANT, which is precisely what we sufferers of

an autoimmune disorder DON'T WANT! This is surely the reason why

recommends against using this plant.

I have neither experience nor reliable data on the following, but I

would assume Cat's Claw to help for a few weeks, because of the

antiinflammatory effect, while the immunostimulant effect has not yet

set in (it's slow). Once the immunostimulation begins, probably the PA

will flare up, and stay highly active up to several weeks after you drop

Cat's Claw. People who try Cat's Claw for one or two months and then

stop might well end up with the opinion that it helped them, and that

the PA flared when they stopped ingesting this plant!

Anyway, I think it's good if people on this list try whatever we can

try, and tell of the results here, as precisely and unbiased as

possible. It's the only way for us to know with reasonable certainty

what helps and what worsens our situation.

In this line, I would like to comment about my own experiment with

herbal extracts based on Mapuche tradition. The Mapuche are the best

known of the native inhabitants of my country, Chile. Following a

consultation with a Mapuche witch, in december I started taking extracts

of Pelu and Maiten, two trees that grow here. The extracts are

alcohol-water based and taken at the rate of 15 drops two times a day,

placed under the tongue for slow absorption. Pelu is supposed to be good

for arthritis, while Maiten is supposed to reduce skin problems.

I have now completed three months trying that stuff. My results are that

the P has remained exactly as it was, so the effect of the Maiten

extract is nil. The PA seems to be very slightly better than when I take

nothing. It seems thus that the Pelu extract has a very weak

antiinflammatory effect, about as weak or even a bit weaker than a small

dosage of meloxicam. Given that my PA goes up and down in irregular

cycles, even this 3 month test is not enough to be sure of the results.

I have observed no side effects whatsoever.

This stuff cost me about 5 dollars per month, so at least it was a cheap

experiment, but not a very successful one.

Manfred.

[Editor's Note: Fantastic post, Manfred. Thanks for the very helpful comments.

It's good to see you again, by the way. Kathy F.]

[Guest guest]

Hi Manfred,

Your view of curcumin (which I had not heard of) sounds very much like how I

saw Cat's Claw before I tried it.

Since Cat's Claw seems to be working very well for me and a couple others

here on the list, I wanted to add that it seems to be keeping the PA under

control over a longer period of time (so far nine months in my case). My

guess is that because Cat's Claw regulates or suppresses TNF (depending on

what article you read), the fact that it's an immune system booster overall

is not a problem (as other immune system boosters would be) for someone

whose only auto-immune problem is PA.

I think we're in sync that people need to know that these things are

understudied and have potential dangers, but it would also be a shame to

cause undue concern and keep people from getting the benefits of something

like Cat's Claw, which although understudies, has at least been used in

traditional medicine, is popular enough to be at GNC's and health food

stores all over, and has been studied to some extent in both natural and

purified forms.

Ideally, I would love to see it studied more (along with protecting the

plant from overharvesting) so that we can know if it's a safe and

cost-effective alternative.

These types of things could save so much money in health costs, we I wonder

how we could get business lobbies to help us call for these studies.

-

[ ] Natural Remedies - Cat's Claw, Curcumin, Pelu

and others

Hi all!

> A Doctor prescribes us a medication and we jump online and research it.

We

> find out everything there is to know about it and its side effects. We

may

> or may not choose to take the recommended medication do to the side

effects

> we learn about in our research.

>

> One of our friends at work recommends a great natural remedy that is said

to

> be the best thing out there. Since it is natural, it must be good for us.

> Right?

Of course, NOT right! Nature has lots of poisons ready for us to try.

Curare is a 100% natural plant extract, and a dose of just a few

milligrams will kill you. Many other such substances exist.

I think we should not make such a big difference between " natural

medicines " and " school medicine " , or however you would like to call it.

Both groups contain lots of substances which might help in some cases

and might damage in others, depending on the person, the dosage, etc.

The main differences are probably these:

1) Medicines produced by big companies usually come in precisely

measured doses and constant quality, while natural ones often are

unreliably dosed and vary in their potency.

2) The official medicines usually have more research to back them up and

establish their side effects, while natural ones are backed by a wealth

of anecdotical knowledge but little formal research, so that true effect

can mix up with urban myth and side effects might escape close scrutiny.

3) Official medicines usually require a doctor's prescription, while

natural ones usually can be bought and used without such control. This

makes the use of official medicines safer, but that of natural ones more

flexible and more apt for experimentation.

4) Natural medicines tend to be a lot less expensive!

The fourth point is actually the most important to me, because in many

cases it plainly rules out the use of school medicine! For example, if I

want to take an TNF-Alpha blocker to try and control my PA that way, all

the choices I know are just four: Remicade, Humira, Enbrel, and

Curcumin. The first three are synthetic high tech medicines that are

incredibly expensive and totally out of reach for my pocket that even if

my life depended 100% on them, I couldn't buy them. The last is a humble

root extract, also made synthetically and used in small quantities in

many foods, which used in large doses seems to have TNF-Alpha blocking

effect. I don't know for sure what nasty side effects it might have, but

many people are taking heavy doses of curcumin and they don't seem to be

damaged by it, so there is anecdotical evidence that the side effects

are tolerable.

Of course, I would prefer to use a well studied and precisely dosed

medicine, but if it costs so much that the treatment vastly exceeds my

total income, there is just no way to do this. Curcumin, which would

cost about 12 dollars per month of treatment at the dose required, looks

a lot more attractive and after some more research without turning up

anything too negative I think I will try it.

For Carol:

> I have been taking Cat's Claw for about 6 weeks now. 4 500mg a day. I

get

> it at GNC.

> My question for those who have been on this herb longer is .. Does anyone

> experience stomach cramps? I have had very bad cramps

> unlike any I have had for many years.

Cat's Claw is basically wood! And I don't suppose you have the stomach

of a termite, so it's natural that you will have trouble digesting that

stuff!

The main problem seems to be the high level of tannin contained in Cat's

Claw. The ability to process tannin depends strongly of the acidity in

the stomach. More acid helps. That's why one should never take Cat's

Claw together with antacids. If your stomach isn't acid enough, you

might help it by drinking some lemon juice, eating salad with lots of

vinegar, etc.

That is, if you really want to keep taking Cat's Claw! I have been

researching this plant lately, and I would be very hesitant to try it.

While it seems to have an antiinflammatory effect which is good for us,

it is also an IMMUNOSTIMULANT, which is precisely what we sufferers of

an autoimmune disorder DON'T WANT! This is surely the reason why

recommends against using this plant.

I have neither experience nor reliable data on the following, but I

would assume Cat's Claw to help for a few weeks, because of the

antiinflammatory effect, while the immunostimulant effect has not yet

set in (it's slow). Once the immunostimulation begins, probably the PA

will flare up, and stay highly active up to several weeks after you drop

Cat's Claw. People who try Cat's Claw for one or two months and then

stop might well end up with the opinion that it helped them, and that

the PA flared when they stopped ingesting this plant!

Anyway, I think it's good if people on this list try whatever we can

try, and tell of the results here, as precisely and unbiased as

possible. It's the only way for us to know with reasonable certainty

what helps and what worsens our situation.

In this line, I would like to comment about my own experiment with

herbal extracts based on Mapuche tradition. The Mapuche are the best

known of the native inhabitants of my country, Chile. Following a

consultation with a Mapuche witch, in december I started taking extracts

of Pelu and Maiten, two trees that grow here. The extracts are

alcohol-water based and taken at the rate of 15 drops two times a day,

placed under the tongue for slow absorption. Pelu is supposed to be good

for arthritis, while Maiten is supposed to reduce skin problems.

I have now completed three months trying that stuff. My results are that

the P has remained exactly as it was, so the effect of the Maiten

extract is nil. The PA seems to be very slightly better than when I take

nothing. It seems thus that the Pelu extract has a very weak

antiinflammatory effect, about as weak or even a bit weaker than a small

dosage of meloxicam. Given that my PA goes up and down in irregular

cycles, even this 3 month test is not enough to be sure of the results.

I have observed no side effects whatsoever.

This stuff cost me about 5 dollars per month, so at least it was a cheap

experiment, but not a very successful one.

Manfred.

[Editor's Note: Fantastic post, Manfred. Thanks for the very helpful

comments. It's good to see you again, by the way. Kathy F.]