Re: PA or Injury ??

[Guest guest]

Kat,

I don't really understand the mechanics of this disease yet. Severe pain in my

neck, shoulders, and back sent me to the rheumy for the first time. I've never

had any injuries to those body parts, so I'm assuming it's just the PA.

[Guest guest]

For me it was so many joints hurting at once that unless I was put in a

cloths dryer without my knowledge, it could not have been injury that

started it. -Betz

[Guest guest]

Very interesting question!

For me, I even have the same question about the P itself. I have very

serious contact allergies to nickel and to thiurams (an ingredient in

rubber). My derm says it could go either way - it could be that the

skin problem on my fingertips could have originally been caused by the

contact allergy and then the immune system jumped in and led to

psoriasis on the fingertips which then spread to the rest of the palms

and eventually to my soles, and then to the arthritis. OR, it could be

that the fingertip problem was psoriasis from the beginning, and having

my skin compromised by pustular psoriasis allowed me to develop an

allergy to things I frequently come in contact with. She says we will

never know which way it went.

As to my joint problem, I will say that I twisted my ankles several

times in the 24 months before I had my major flare and also fell down 3

times during the 12 months before. Did the injuries trigger the PA?

Maybe. But I also notice that my ankles are very weak and I think that

is what is causing me to twist them by just little things like falling

off my own shoes - lol - and I wonder if that weakness was already

coming on and I just didn't notice it until things got bad enough?

Does that make sense? What I mean is that it could be that the

injuries were caused by some unnoticed (at that time) inflammation and

weakness in those joints to start with.

a lady who hates not having answers to PA's mysterious questions,

sherry z

>

> As I was writting a previous response, a thought hit me.

>

> What causes joints to get inflamed in the first place? Does PA

> attack joints randomly or do we hurt a joint and then PA steps in

> and does the rest?

[Guest guest]

On reflection since I have had PA, I believe it started with me many years ago.

I had

a few episodes that had no relation to accidents or injury. In 1994 I fell and

broke my

rt. ankle and was on crutches for 8 weeks. The most traumatic part of that

experience

was staying with my mother because she insisted on " taking care of me " . I would

think

that if I had injured every joint in my body, I would have some memory of it.

Remember,

they have found a genetic link to autoimmune diseases and I think that and a

link with one

virus or another is at fault. I had the flu for more than 2 months straight the

winter I had

my first big flare. Also, I had a bout of shingles the summer before. That is

where I

think there is a connection. But that's just me.

Janet in Ca

[Guest guest]

Ok...now that I think about it, I DID have my tonsils out when I was 19

and ran a fever in the hospital. It has been suggested that things

started there. Will we ever really know? -Betz

[Guest guest]

" For me it was so many joints hurting at once that unless I was put in a

cloths dryer without my knowledge, it could not have been injury that

started it. -Betz "

This is not a laughing matter, but once again, thank you for my best chuckle

tonight. It's just the way you say what you do that gets to my funny bone.

Thinking about you...

Lucia

[Guest guest]

I also wonder if major stress in one's life can cause your first flare up of PA

as well. My first flare up occurred two weeks after my mom passed away, and she

was in hospice dying a month before that, so I can say I was under a major

amount of stress for a month, and then I had my first flare up. I wonder if

they are related. Of course, I also have the genetic component. Every

generation of my dad's side of the family has someone with Psoraisis. My dad

got it when he was 25. I got it when I was 22. I thought I was the first to

get PA. However, they are now saying my dad's Osteo might be PA, but he doesn't

want to do anything about it. He is a Doctor(Pediatrician) himself, and I find

that when Doctor's get sick, they are so stubborn like my dad. He didn't even

want me to try DMRADS. I told him I have to be aggressive about this,

especially since I am so young and have a whole life ahead of me. He is just

being over-protective.

from FL.

cameronparkmom@... wrote:

On reflection since I have had PA, I believe it started with me many

years ago. I had

a few episodes that had no relation to accidents or injury. In 1994 I fell and

broke my

rt. ankle and was on crutches for 8 weeks. The most traumatic part of that

experience

was staying with my mother because she insisted on " taking care of me " . I would

think

that if I had injured every joint in my body, I would have some memory of it.

Remember,

they have found a genetic link to autoimmune diseases and I think that and a

link with one

virus or another is at fault. I had the flu for more than 2 months straight the

winter I had

my first big flare. Also, I had a bout of shingles the summer before. That is

where I

think there is a connection. But that's just me.

Janet in Ca

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[Guest guest]

...most doctors will tell you that any disease can flare when you

are under stress. So yes...that could play a role. Sometimes we beat

ourselves up trying to figure out the whys of it all and then there is

just no rhyme or reason. If we were diagnoses with cancer, we'd be

trying to figure out how we got that as well. It's just human nature I

think. -Betz

[Guest guest]

Betz,

I agree with you. A lot of people are trying to figure out how they got PA

and when it started, but in the end, it does not matter, we have it whether we

like it or not. We just have to be aggressive about the treatment so that we

can slow the progression down and feel better if possible. I started Arava on

Monday, I just finished my loading dose of 100mg yesterday and tonight I go down

to 20mg. Knock on wood, I have had no side effects so far. Hopefully in the

next few months I will see a difference with my PA. If not, I get to try one of

the Biologics next.

from FL.

Betsy Jack <itsbetsy@...> wrote:

...most doctors will tell you that any disease can flare when you

are under stress. So yes...that could play a role. Sometimes we beat

ourselves up trying to figure out the whys of it all and then there is

just no rhyme or reason. If we were diagnoses with cancer, we'd be

trying to figure out how we got that as well. It's just human nature I

think. -Betz

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Yes ,

We almost lost my mother, also, just a couple of months before my first big

flare. In fact she was laying in ICU with doctors not having a clue what

was wrong with her and brought me, the oldest child, in to ask me if they

should keep her on the machines or let her go. Out of the blue, I asked them

if they had checked her sodium level, that she had been in the hospital, under

another doctor a couple years before and acted the same way, as if she were

in a coma. They checked and started her on different IV's and low and behold,

she woke up. God had his angels busy that day. That was New Years Day, 2002,

and I had a complete body breakdown 2 or 3 joints at a time about 3 months

later.

I had forgotten all about that. We lost her 3 days after her 80th birthday,

2005.

She died of complications from COPD and emphazema (sp).

-------------- Original message --------------

From: Hockey <juliejahockey@...>

> I also wonder if major stress in one's life can cause your first flare up of

PA

> as well. My first flare up occurred two weeks after my mom passed away, and

she

> was in hospice dying a month before that, so I can say I was under a major

> amount of stress for a month, and then I had my first flare up. I wonder if

> they are related. >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry for your loss. Obviously, I can relate. This will be our first

Thanksgiving without my mom, and it will be hard. I invited my dad's girlfriend

to Thanksgiving at my house, which was hard for me to do, but I see how happy my

dad is, and it was the right thing to do. She will not be coming since she

decided to fly to Pennsylvania last minute to spend the holiday with her kids

and grand kids. Anyway, may I ask what medicines you are taking to help with

your PA? I just began Arava on Monday which is the second DMRAD I have tried,

and so far I like it since I haven't had a single side effect. I just hope it

help my PA. I know it takes 3-6 months sometimes to see if a medicine has an

impact. Take care.

from FL.

[Editor's Note: For the benefit of our newer members, DMARD (not DMRAD) stands

for Disease Modifying Anti-Rheumatic Drug). These medications have been proven

to help slow the progression of the disease and include drugs such as

methotrexate and Arava. Kathy F.]

cameronparkmom@... wrote:

Yes ,

We almost lost my mother, also, just a couple of months before my first big

flare. In fact she was laying in ICU with doctors not having a clue what

was wrong with her and brought me, the oldest child, in to ask me if they

should keep her on the machines or let her go. Out of the blue, I asked them

if they had checked her sodium level, that she had been in the hospital, under

another doctor a couple years before and acted the same way, as if she were

in a coma. They checked and started her on different IV's and low and behold,

she woke up. God had his angels busy that day. That was New Years Day, 2002,

and I had a complete body breakdown 2 or 3 joints at a time about 3 months

later.

I had forgotten all about that. We lost her 3 days after her 80th birthday,

2005.

She died of complications from COPD and emphezema (sp).

[Guest guest]

This is very interesting...mine started getting worse 6 mos after my

mother died... hmmm

> I had forgotten all about that. We lost her 3 days after her 80th

birthday, 2005.

> She died of complications from COPD and emphazema (sp).

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

> From: Hockey <juliejahockey@...>

>

> > I also wonder if major stress in one's life can cause your first

flare up of PA

> > as well. My first flare up occurred two weeks after my mom

passed away, and she

> > was in hospice dying a month before that, so I can say I was

under a major

> > amount of stress for a month, and then I had my first flare up.

I wonder if

> > they are related. >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My mom has COPD and refuses to use her oxygen in daytime... So far she is doing

okay without it in day, but has to have when sleeping as do I... We worry about

my mom with this... She also damaged her left lung..

Love and Peace Always,

Shaun and Barb...

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

When I was first dx my PCP put on prednisone until I could get in

to see a rheumatologist. There was a 6 month waiting list. He then

gave me methotrexate and after a few visits, started backing off on

the prednisone. Just before I was finished with the pred, I tried the

Enbrel for a couple months. It was not my miracle, but it may have

been instrumental in getting me off the pred. Rheumy wanted to put

me back on prednisone with the MTX a few months later, but I refused.

It ticked him off a little, but it was my body. I have since moved to

Ca and have a different rheumy that I will see Tues. I want to try

Remicade, so we'll see how that goes.

I'll pray for your success with Arava and maybe it won't take so long

for you the reap the benefits.

Happy Thanksgiving! We still have a lot to be thankful for, you know.

Janet in Ca

-------------- Original message --------------

From: Hockey <juliejahockey@...>

just began Arava on Monday which is the second DMRAD I have tried,

> and so far I like it since I haven't had a single side effect. I just hope it

> help my PA. I know it takes 3-6 months sometimes to see if a medicine has an

> impact. Take care.

> from FL.

>

[Guest guest]

>

I started Arava on Monday, I just finished my loading dose of 100mg

yesterday and tonight I go down to 20mg. Knock on wood, I have had no

side effects so far. Hopefully in the next few months I will see a

difference with my PA. If not, I get to try one of the Biologics next.

> from FL.

,

Hope you do well with the Arava. It doesn't seem as if there are that

many folks on the board who take Arava, although I've heard from some

who have taken it in the past but had to quit due to complications.

I've been taking it about a year now and have had some remarkable

relief. I can use my hands again. My knee doesn't fill up with fluid

every other week. I can walk for at least two hours without having my

toes kill me, my ankles swell. Fingernails have NEVER been this nice

in all my adult life. Nasty scalp scabs are banished. No more problems

with compressed discs in neck.

So far, I haven't noticed any particular side effects, except that I

bruise more easily and it takes me lots longer to heal from cuts of

any kind. I teach small children and am absolutely phobic about germs

because it takes me a while to shake off upper respiratory infections.

You've never seen a teacher spray Lysol, use Clorox wipes to

disinfect doorknobs, computer keyboards andtables so often, or spray

Oust in the air after every cough. Every table has two small trash

bins exclusively for used Kleenex. Have got students using hand

sanitizer everytime they touch their mouths or cough.

My immune system does indeed seem suppressed, but that is the

trade-off for me. If it stays this way, I can live with it.

Nonetheless, I am always asking my doctor " Are you SURE I'm really OK

on Arava? " as paranoia runs deep.

Good luck to you. Will be looking for your posts to hear how it's

going.

Lucia

[Guest guest]

Janet,

I am just curious. I am from California. We moved to Florida 4 years ago,

and it was a hard move for me because I had never lived anywhere but California.

I love it here though. Where are you living in California? I am from Santa

Clara County(Silicon Valley). I was raised in Saratoga, I went to UC Santa Cruz

for 4 years. After I graduated, I moved back to Santa Clara County, and taught

at a private school there. When my husband and I got married, we bought a house

and lived in South San , in Almaden Valley. If you don't know the area, it

is in Northern California, an hour south of San Francisco. Take care.

cameronparkmom@... wrote:

Hi ,

When I was first dx my PCP put on prednisone until I could get in

to see a rheumatologist. There was a 6 month waiting list. He then

gave me methotrexate and after a few visits, started backing off on

the prednisone. Just before I was finished with the pred, I tried the

Enbrel for a couple months. It was not my miracle, but it may have

been instrumental in getting me off the pred. Rheumy wanted to put

me back on prednisone with the MTX a few months later, but I refused.

It ticked him off a little, but it was my body. I have since moved to

Ca and have a different rheumy that I will see Tues. I want to try

Remicade, so we'll see how that goes.

I'll pray for your success with Arava and maybe it won't take so long

for you the reap the benefits.

Happy Thanksgiving! We still have a lot to be thankful for, you know.

Janet in Ca

[Guest guest]

Shaun,

We had problems with our mom also when it came to her oxygen. You

may have to borrow one of those machines (I could not remember what

it was called, even without brain fog) and have her oxygen level monitored.

We found that our mother did not think we knew what we were talking

about when we gave her instructions, she also got to where she thought

her doctor told her the same thing because we told him to. The guy she

would believe was the guy who brought her her tanks and did the service.

Perhaps they have something that would be more comfortable for her

than the nose piece she is using. But anyway, contact her service tech,

and maybe he can convice her of the importance of her oxygen level

when no else can because he is further removed from her worry of

losing control. God knows how we hate to lose control, and this is

still one area that SHE can control whether it is in her best interest or not.

Good luck and God bless you all. I know how hard it is when you are

not well either.

Janet in Ca

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Scar B " <honeydipped77@...>

> My mom has COPD and refuses to use her oxygen in daytime... So far she is

doing

> okay without it in day, but has to have when sleeping as do I... We worry

about

> my mom with this... She also damaged her left lung..

>

> Love and Peace Always,

> Shaun and Barb...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lucia,

Thanks for the e-mail. When you have an upper respitory problem that lasts a

long time or a cut that takes time to heal, what are you supposed to do? Have

you been going off the Arava until your infections heal, or do you stay on it

and take antibiotics? Are you also supposed to called your Rhummy every time you

get an infection? It is nice to talk to someone who has experience with this

medicine. My Rhummy plans on having me do another bone scan in about 9 months,

so we will see if the disease has progressed and if the Arava is helping, or

whatever medicine I am taking at the time.

,

Hope you do well with the Arava. It doesn't seem as if there are that

many folks on the board who take Arava, although I've heard from some

who have taken it in the past but had to quit due to complications.

I've been taking it about a year now and have had some remarkable

relief. I can use my hands again. My knee doesn't fill up with fluid

every other week. I can walk for at least two hours without having my

toes kill me, my ankles swell. Fingernails have NEVER been this nice

in all my adult life. Nasty scalp scabs are banished. No more problems

with compressed discs in neck.

So far, I haven't noticed any particular side effects, except that I

bruise more easily and it takes me lots longer to heal from cuts of

any kind. I teach small children and am absolutely phobic about germs

because it takes me a while to shake off upper respiratory infections.

You've never seen a teacher spray Lysol, use Clorox wipes to

disinfect doorknobs, computer keyboards andtables so often, or spray

Oust in the air after every cough. Every table has two small trash

bins exclusively for used Kleenex. Have got students using hand

sanitizer everytime they touch their mouths or cough.

My immune system does indeed seem suppressed, but that is the

trade-off for me. If it stays this way, I can live with it.

Nonetheless, I am always asking my doctor " Are you SURE I'm really OK

on Arava? " as paranoia runs deep.

Good luck to you. Will be looking for your posts to hear how it's

going.

Lucia

---------------------------------

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm getting to know the area a little better just by watching the local news

channels. My daughter and I live in Cameron Park, which is about 20 miles

due east of Sacramento in El Dorado County. We are in the " foothills " of the

Sierras as well as being right on the edge of " Gold Country " . We are only an

hour from Lake Tahoe, depending on when you want to go. I always try to

avoid going east from here on Friday nights, because that is when people from

the bay area bombard Hiway 50 on their way to Tahoe. It is the same thing

on Sunday afternoons going west. LOL It is a very beautiful place to live

but the cost of living stinks. I like living here because it is close to

everything

you might want to do (if I were younger, that is) for entertainment and

shopping,

but we are Oregon transplants and plan to move back to So. Oregon in about

4 years or so. D/d plans to step down and semi-retire. I wish we had time to

visit San Francisco, I really enjoyed the few times we were there. Some local

tidbits: They are moving the SF 49ers to Santa Clara, because they have to have

a new stadium, and there is no room in SF. They are talking about selling the

Golden Gate Bridge to some large Corp. like the ball stadiums did because

SF or the State of Cal. can't afford the $87 million a year it takes for the

upkeep.

Wild, Huh?? Hope today is a good one for you and tomorrow a better one.

Janet in Ca

-------------- Original message --------------

From: Hockey <juliejahockey@...>

> Janet,

> I am just curious. I am from California. We moved to Florida 4 years ago,

> and it was a hard move for me because I had never lived anywhere but

California.

> I love it here though. Where are you living in California? I am from Santa

> Clara County(Silicon Valley). I was raised in Saratoga, I went to UC Santa

Cruz >

>

>

> Please visit our Psoriatic Arthritis Group's informational web page at:

> http://www.wpunj.edu/pa/ -- created and edited by list member

> aka(raharris@...).

>

> Also,in August 2001,list member Jack aka Cornishpro@... began to

> conduct extensive research which he publishes as the " Psoriatic Arthritis

> Research Newsletter " , monthly in our email and digest format. Many thanks to

> Jack. Back issues of the newsletter are stored on our PA webpage as well as

the

> archives of the list.

>

> Don't forget that the list archives comprise a tremendous amount of

information

> (Over three years of messages and answers).Feel free to browse them at your

> convenience.

>

> LET'S HEAR FROM SOME OF YOU LURKERS out there! If you have a comment or

> question, chances are there is a person who has been around a while who can

help

> you out with AT LEAST an educated guess for an answer! If not,we can steer you

> in the right direction with a good website to go to,

>

> Blessings and Peace,

>

> Atwood-Stack, Founder

> Alan , Web & List Editor

> Jack , Newsletter Editor

> Pat Bias, List Editor

> Ron Dotson, List Editor

> Orin, List Editor

> Kathy F., List Editor

> and any others who help in any way (thank you!)

>

>

[Guest guest]

, my doctor gave me his cell phone number for times when I'm

really concerned. The last thing I want to do is bother him when he's

already overworked, but it makes me feel better just knowing I could.

His nurse hears from me quite often and I need to send her something

nice this Christmas!

Last winter I had to go on antibiotics on three different occasions

because of bronchitis that would not go away. Dr. was checking me for

signs of pneumonia fairly frequently then, but didn't happen. Cuts

get the neosporin treatment ASAP. Then I just wait. And use more

neosporin! Bruises happen more easily and last longer too. But

there's nothing in particular my doctor recommends doing about these.

Went off the prednisone and Arava for two weeks prior to foot surgery

last summer. Stayed off the prednisone, but Dr. had me go back on the

Arava a week or so after surgery. Other than that, I have stayed on

it. It is a drug that stays in your system a long time, so I'm not

really sure what the purpose of quitting before the surgery was. I

know there's some sort of protocol for quickly eliminating Arava

should it become necessary (high liver enzymes, other bad reactions,

or pregnancy).

A number of my symptoms were not absolutely consistent with PA and I

had P only on my scalp. At this point, Dr. is considering adding a

diagnosis of cutaneous LE because of malar rash and elevated ANA. My

first question: " Could this be Arava-induced??? " He seems quite

positive that this is not the case, so I'm taking his word for it.

He's talking Plaquenil, if fish oil and DHEA don't help.

Other meds I take include Mobic, tramadol, Wellbutrin, Lyrica (pm) and

Lunesta (pm). It seems like a pharmaceutical merry-go-round. Whatever

is working, I can tell I'm much more functional than this time two

years ago. I hope you will be doing well!

Lucia

>

> Lucia,

> Thanks for the e-mail. When you have an upper respitory problem

that lasts a long time or a cut that takes time to heal, what are you

supposed to do? Have you been going off the Arava until your

infections heal, or do you stay on it and take antibiotics? Are you

also supposed to called your Rhummy every time you get an infection?

It is nice to talk to someone who has experience with this medicine.

My Rhummy plans on having me do another bone scan in about 9 months,

so we will see if the disease has progressed and if the Arava is

helping, or whatever medicine I am taking at the time.

>

[Guest guest]

Lucia,

Thank you for the information. I will call my doctor immediately if I get an

infection. I got a flu shot a few days before I began the Arava which my Rhummy

recommeded. Similarly to you, I mainly have Psoraisis on my scalp too. For the

last 4 years, it has been so minimal, I haven't done a thing about it. I will

occasionally get a tiny patch other places like my face or chest, but topical

steroids take those away immediately. In the 12 years that I have had P, there

have only been about four times that I have had a major breakout on my scalp.

In those cases, my Dermatologist has given me wonderful hair kits that include,

shampoo, foam, scale removers for nighttime and another topical medicine for the

day. That usually takes care of a major breakout. Now matter how my P is

doing, I still see my Dermatolagist every year to check my skin for P as well as

for skin cancer since I am at that age.

Arava does stay in your system for 1-2 years and the procedure you are

supposed to do to get it out of your system quickly is an eleven day course of

Cholestyramine. I am sure your doctor told you, you would only do this if you

had a bad reaction to the medicine or you wanted to get pregnant. I am not

having any more kids, so that is not an issue for me and I hopefully will not

have a bad reaction. My Rhummy has only had one patient who has needed this

medicine, and it was because she got a major rash the second she began Arava,

she was having an allergic reaction. Take care and have a wonderful

Thanksgiving.

aiculskcih <luciahicks@...> wrote:

, my doctor gave me his cell phone number for times when I'm

really concerned. The last thing I want to do is bother him when he's

already overworked, but it makes me feel better just knowing I could.

His nurse hears from me quite often and I need to send her something

nice this Christmas!

Last winter I had to go on antibiotics on three different occasions

because of bronchitis that would not go away. Dr. was checking me for

signs of pneumonia fairly frequently then, but didn't happen. Cuts

get the neosporin treatment ASAP. Then I just wait. And use more

neosporin! Bruises happen more easily and last longer too. But

there's nothing in particular my doctor recommends doing about these.

Went off the prednisone and Arava for two weeks prior to foot surgery

last summer. Stayed off the prednisone, but Dr. had me go back on the

Arava a week or so after surgery. Other than that, I have stayed on

it. It is a drug that stays in your system a long time, so I'm not

really sure what the purpose of quitting before the surgery was. I

know there's some sort of protocol for quickly eliminating Arava

should it become necessary (high liver enzymes, other bad reactions,

or pregnancy).

A number of my symptoms were not absolutely consistent with PA and I

had P only on my scalp. At this point, Dr. is considering adding a

diagnosis of cutaneous LE because of malar rash and elevated ANA. My

first question: " Could this be Arava-induced??? " He seems quite

positive that this is not the case, so I'm taking his word for it.

He's talking Plaquenil, if fish oil and DHEA don't help.

Other meds I take include Mobic, tramadol, Wellbutrin, Lyrica (pm) and

Lunesta (pm). It seems like a pharmaceutical merry-go-round. Whatever

is working, I can tell I'm much more functional than this time two

years ago. I hope you will be doing well!

Lucia

[Guest guest]

Janet,

I was once one of those annoying people on HWY 50 every Friday going to Tahoe

every weekend. It got old after a while. I haven't skied in 9 years. You live

in a nice area. My brother went to UC for his BA and Sac State for his

Masters, so I know that area a bit. You mentioned moving back to Oregon. My

husband grew up in Eugene right next to the University of Oregon. All of the

West Coast is beautiful! It is very expensive though. I was an elementary

school teacher in California and I always had to rent a house or apartment with

other people because I could never afford living on my own in such an expensive

state. I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Take care.

from FL.

cameronparkmom@... wrote:

Hi ,

I'm getting to know the area a little better just by watching the local news

channels. My daughter and I live in Cameron Park, which is about 20 miles

due east of Sacramento in El Dorado County. We are in the " foothills " of the

Sierras as well as being right on the edge of " Gold Country " . We are only an

hour from Lake Tahoe, depending on when you want to go. I always try to

avoid going east from here on Friday nights, because that is when people from

the bay area bombard Hiway 50 on their way to Tahoe. It is the same thing

on Sunday afternoons going west. LOL It is a very beautiful place to live

but the cost of living stinks. I like living here because it is close to

everything

you might want to do (if I were younger, that is) for entertainment and

shopping,

but we are Oregon transplants and plan to move back to So. Oregon in about

4 years or so. D/d plans to step down and semi-retire. I wish we had time to

visit San Francisco, I really enjoyed the few times we were there. Some local

tidbits: They are moving the SF 49ers to Santa Clara, because they have to have

a new stadium, and there is no room in SF. They are talking about selling the

Golden Gate Bridge to some large Corp. like the ball stadiums did because

SF or the State of Cal. can't afford the $87 million a year it takes for the

upkeep.

Wild, Huh?? Hope today is a good one for you and tomorrow a better one.

Janet in Ca