Re: Re: Healing naturally (IDEAS)

October 15, 2006

well said

relying on anecdotal evidence that is from the far edges of the bell curve is

crazy.

there are are numerous people that have died getting apricot enemas to cure

cancer. If you take a big enough sample you can find evidence of anything, cures

or deaths. 95 % of the peole who died today ate breakfast, it might be the

breakfast that killed them but I am willing to bet not. When you hear hoof beats

think of horses first and end up with camels and then search out the rest.

best

g

[Editor's Note: There is no question that eating healthy is a smart thing to

do. No one is trying to discourage that. However, there has never been a study

done that was held up to strict scientific standards which supports the claim

that any of these supplements is a " cure " for PA. For people who are allergic

to something, it is logical that eliminating wheat or nightshares or whatever

else the source of the allergy is makes absolute sense. It does not make sense

for people to eliminate nightshades if they are not allergic to them.

Strengthening our bodies, eating healthy and being in good physical condition

also makes sense. None of these, however, is a CURE for PA. I therefore try to

ensure that people who make grandiose statements are met with a statement that

balances their claims with reality to combat their hyperbole. Thanks so much

for your post, Greg. Bon Appetit! Kathy F.]

[ ] Re: Healing naturally (IDEAS)

Well I'm going to jump in here. I was under the impression that

this group (of over 2000 members was primarily focused on educating

each other on the numerous life-altering drugs that are available to

us today. I researched groups before I joined this one. There ARE

other groups that focus on a more natural approach to treatment if

someone is interested in that. I personally eat a very healthy diet

centered around whole foods (ok...and chocolate) and have done so

since the 80s. I determined then not to be at fault for my illness

and began doing my part in making myself as healthy as I could. It

was not enough though I still believe in feeding my body foods that

will help it. The medications are what has made me human and

functional when I was on them. That is why I am in this group. I too

am not so sure about certain diseases not being around 60 years ago.

It seems more likely to me that they just went undiagnosed. What was

not around 60 years ago was the machines and diagnostic tools we now

use to view the inner workings of our bodies. There was much more

guess work done. It was not that long ago that strep throat could

kill you...or a UTI for all that matters. Life expectancy was

certainly lower and quality of life was diminished for those who

were ill unless my history books were all a big scam. I have never

known Kathy to be anything other than positive and a wealth of

information. How she has the time to do this job, I'll never

understand especially since she, like most of us does not feel well

much of the time. Without our medications, many of us in this group

would be bedridden. Kathy for one. I think that it's important for

us to seek out groups that share our point of view rather than

trying to convert others in the group. has MANY groups and

it's easy to start one. Just as you might not have much in common

with a group about Underwater Basket Weaving, you might not have

much in common with this one either Lorrie. Of course all are

welcome unless you are seeking to use this site to sell a product.

But we DO focus on prescription medications here. So maybe you might

want to consider using this group to gain knowledge on your

prescription medications and another group to share your findings

and experience on whole and organic foods. Just a friendly

suggestion. I do think it's best for a group to not be spread all

over the place. Very little gets done when the focus is wide. Those

are my ideas....- Betz

> >

> > about the editors note. we are NOT saying no to the medications

but

> additional help to deal with the disease, reduce brain fog and

> increast energy. negativity and stress. that can worsen the

disease.

> yes it is a disease but it is possible it can be handled. we

should

> be able to give our info freely on this website. and to tell what

we

> are doing to feel and what works for us. you certainly have a right

> to an opinion thats what this is for. but to encourage so much

> negativity! my customers at work are mainly retired and are buying

> whole foods and organics. i have seen people who were very sick

> slowly come back to having a life.( i see this first hand.) and are

> slowly cutting back on there medication. that includes RA, PA, and

> heart disease. it doesnt work for everybody but for those of us it

> does work for let us talk. if this is a closed discussion group or

> only for those with advance disease and who have given up and

refuse

> to try something new please let us know. we

> > should get up and be proactive and NOT be afraid to talk among

> ourselves. there are probably alot of PA sufferers out there who

are

> not willing to join in because of closed minds or afraid of remarks

> like we just read. we are not talking about FOOD allergies as in a

> category but about foods that may not be as good for us as they

once

> were. i dont have a food allergy. i can eat anything i want.(except

> lima beans) LOL but i do feel a flare up with certain foods. im

aware

> of it and know what to do. we are not saying we can cure PA. but we

> can feel better and have a rewarding life. lets use this group with

> an open mind and allow others to do or say what they want. PA didnt

> exist 60 years ago. so what has changed? and one more thing, we

> listen to our docs. that is 90% of discussion on this site. but

what

> about doctors taking care of progression on this disease, and we

take

> care of out bodies

> > lorrie

> >

> > [Editor's Note: It sounds like you work for a health food store,

> is that correct? If so, you are not exactly unbiased. Many of us

on

> this site have tried various food regimes over the years without

any

> success. Some people, apparently yourself included, have met with

> astounding success. Some people on the list are able to lead

almost

> new lives thanks to medications. Yes, PA was not diagnosed as

such a

> number of years ago, but neither were 90% of the diseases we know

> about today. Medical science has made incredible advances and we

> know a great deal more about genes, genetics, and a whole host of

> other things that were unknown several decades ago. Ergo, to

> conclude that people didn't have PA decades ago simply because

> science had no way of identifying it, is sophistry and if that's

> convinced you that this is all food-related, I think you may be way

> off base here. Oh, and how is it that by disagreeing with you

that I

> am negative? I could say that you are negative and close minded

for

> not agreeing with me. Levying personal attacks on me for the

views I

> hold is not only inappropriate, it is counterproductive. Kathy F.]

> >

>

October 15, 2006

Hi Betz, I can sum this up really quick, I'm living proof that you can heal

yourself naturally:) Drugs only cover up symptoms that the body is having, and

they create more problems. We do have access to a great many more varieties of

food that is true and thats why we need to take advantage of those foods. The

average life span of people has been increasing but the amount of diseases are

also increasing, now tell me why that is? Because of the " American Diet " , we

live in a world of fast food, peoples are so oversaturating their bodies with

Acid based foods they we are killing ourselves. There are people who can make

it through life like this because they just got the lucky genes that were able

to fight of the chronic diseases that many people are suffering. Okay I want to

give you a small example of why at this moment I am feeling great... for lunch

I went over to my moms house who is a great cook. She made me the perfect

balance of 80% Alkaline to 20% Alkaline.

That means I had a selection of about 4 different veges to about 2 different

slightly more acid based foods on my plate right out in front of me, now I

haven't been feeling absolutely great lately because i live on my own an d i

usually don't have time to prepare my meals as well as she does, but now a

couple hours after I had that meal I am feeling almost totally pain free. For

someone that has PA really bad and their body is totally imbalanced because of

improper diet they won't feel as good as me, I have been doing this for the last

few years so my body is pretty close to being balanced so one good meal can

sometimes just give me that extra push in the right direction. And just for

the record our ancestors didn't have all the preservatives that we have in our

food today, they were faced with other illnesses of course... western medicine

does have some advantages, but you should consider more eastern philosphies on

how to stay healthy, if everyone started eating this

balance from when their young I guarantee it would wipe out so many illnesses,

my parents who are both nurses say that 90% of people they see at the hospital

are there because of poor diet. I completely understand your concerns because I

had them today, I'm here a living example of what eating healthy can do to save

your joints I have done many things to prove to myself that the right diet does

work.. for example... I will switch back occasionally to foods that I know I do

have a problem with- say like taco bell, pizza, or other types of fast food....

it doesn't take more then about 2-3 days for me to start breaking out in

Psoraisis and for my PA to start acting up again.. thats because all that food

is totally Acid based... I switch back to the right Alkaline diet and within a

few days I'm back to my normal self again! You wouldn't believe how amazing

this is, its all really trial and error and its easy to forget certain things

that made you feel better and certain

things that don't... but I am absolutely shocked that more people don't know

the benefits of healthier eating and what that can do to combat diseases. I

hope this has been somewhat of help:) I'm just gonna keep adding posts with

more things that i have found help me as they come into my mind including some

of the Vitamins and Supplements I have been taking. Also one last thing I just

thought of healing your body internally is not a fast process it will take time

it took me almost a year.. part of that is because I kept messing up and finding

out I was eating things that were causing problems.. like yeast for instance,

kept building up in my system and I didn't know it was causing problems.. same

with wheat.. and these are common problems among people with PA or in general..

anyway thats all I got for now:)

Seth

[Editor's Note: There isn't an iota of scientific evidence that indicates that

disease is increasing but it is a nice claim to make. Our ability to DETECT

diseases is increasing but that is radically different. You are just plain

wrong in saying that medicines merely cover up disease symptoms. Biologic

medications have been scientifically proven to stem the progression of the

disease. People do not cure breast cancer, brain tumors or hearth diseases by

changing their diets. Changing their diets may help to prevent the disease in

the first place, but it will not cure it. So, Seth, you go right ahead and eat

your wheat germ and cleanse your colon and may you continue to enjoy good

health, but please recognize that the anecdotal experience of a few people is

not enough to convince most intelligent people that YOU have found a CURE.

Virtually all studies also show that 10-15% of people who are given placebos

(sugar pills often) show signs of significant pain improvement. I suppose,

therefore, that one can conclude that placebos are a cure for most diseases.

Without question, a person who has a wheat allergy would be wise to eliminate

wheat and I think most first graders know that. A person with a nightshade

allergy should eliminate nightshades. However, it doesn't help a PA sufferer

who does not have a nightshade allergy to give up tomatoes. As stated in my

earlier post, a healthy diet is essential to a healthy body. Duh. However, it

is NOT a cure for PA. Americans generally have very poor diets and high stress

lifestyles and eating healthy would undoubtedly strengthen their ability to

combat disease as would practicing yoga, chi-gung, meditation and a host of

other disciplines. Absolutely. However, I will not stand silent and let people

here believe that any or all of this will " cure " their PA. There is NO cure for

PA but there are natural ways to ease symptoms and medical ways to stem the

progression of the disease. I don't claim that medicine cures PA, nor would I

and I do not like to see people claiming that they know of a cure either. You

don't have a cure. Be well. Kathy F.]

Betsy Jack <itsbetsy@...> wrote: To me, thinking that one can heal

yourself with the right foods does

not make much sense. You can harm yourself with the wrong foods but

think about it...each culture has foods that are limited due to the

climate there. Not until modern times were we able to have access to

the wide variety of foods that are found in our supermarkets today.

How did our ancestors survive? Lots of questions....-Betz

i run a natural foods dept and

im also looking into the whole food connection. i do have to take

mtx and naproxin, but at considerly low doses. my goal is to not

have to ever raise the rx dose. by that i mean i do not want the

disease to progress. i feel the rx is dealing with the damage that

has been done for the past 25 years and it does prevent it from

progressing. i wish i had been diagnosed in my 20s. the damage cant

be corrected but earlier diagnosis would have been helpful. LOL.

gluten is a big one. and foods with a high acid content. but finding

the balance..... thats difficult. any ideas you can pass along? oh,

lets not for get preservatives in general! the key i believe would

be " whole foods " and that is alot easier to comprehend. yogurt. i

always feel better when i eat alittle yogurt everyday. your

digestive system plays a major role in your health. also for the

joint pain, arnica cream is awsome. all natural. stay in

> touch! i do believe we are on the right

> track. but you wont get alot of response from the regulars in

this group. every time ive brought up the whole food thing my post

seems to just go away...... take care

> playing basketball? good for you!

> lorrie.

>

Please visit our Psoriatic Arthritis Group's informational web page at:

http://www.wpunj.edu/pa/ -- created and edited by list member

aka(raharris@...).

Also,in August 2001,list member Jack aka Cornishpro@... began to

conduct extensive research which he publishes as the " Psoriatic Arthritis

Research Newsletter " , monthly in our email and digest format. Many thanks to

Jack. Back issues of the newsletter are stored on our PA webpage as well as the

archives of the list.

Don't forget that the list archives comprise a tremendous amount of information

(Over three years of messages and answers).Feel free to browse them at your

convenience.

LET'S HEAR FROM SOME OF YOU LURKERS out there! If you have a comment or

question, chances are there is a person who has been around a while who can help

you out with AT LEAST an educated guess for an answer! If not,we can steer you

in the right direction with a good website to go to,

Blessings and Peace,

Atwood-Stack, Founder

Alan , Web & List Editor

Jack , Newsletter Editor

Pat Bias, List Editor

Ron Dotson, List Editor

Orin, List Editor

Kathy F., List Editor

and any others who help in any way (thank you!)

October 16, 2006

Betz: Glad to see you in a figting spirit, that may be good to raise your blood

pressure.

I admit that I did not read Lorrie's email. I disagree with you Betz however,

about the focus of this group. My impression is that ANY experience related to

PA is welcome to be shared.

About people were healthier 60 years ago, it may be true. The available

treatments were not as good then as now. Sick people who can be treated now,

used to die. Hence, the life span was shorter. The chances of a sick person

surviving now is much greater than it is then. The percentage of sick people

surviving now on medication is much greater that it was then. One may conclude

that it is probably true that in primitive societies people are healthier than

in nadvanced societies now.

What is the percentage of the cost of health care that is spend on the last

three months of people's life? I forgot the number but it is unbelievably high

when I heard it mentioned first.

Hey Betz, finally, I find something that I disagree with you about.

Kathy F.: Are you pretending that you are upset so that we doubt your

sainthood? :-)

Hi Brent.

[Editor's Note: Hi, . Probably one of the few things that really gets me

going is people who claim to have the " CURE " . That is what was initially being

stated so I challenged the validity of that statement. I was also accused of

being negative merely because I disagreed with a poster and said so. You have

met me in person, as has Betz who has become a friend, and I think you both know

that I laugh easily, am positive and upbeat, and I try to give more than I take.

For someone, therefore, who hasn't a clue what I am like to label me as negative

is an insult but I realize that it says a lot more about the person who said it

than it ever could about me. It is great to see you posting again, , and

we always value your insights and opinions. Kathy F. (the moderator formerly

known as " the saint " .]

Betsy Jack <itsbetsy@...> wrote: