Guest guest Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Aline wrote: > I've been reading here that people react differently to chelators but > is there any advice about what to start with? A highly controversial subject to be sure. People spend plenty of time arguing about this subject on heavy metal chelation discussion groups. I've tried at least a dozen different heavy metal chelators. I've had good reactions, no reactions, and bad reactions. In the end, I've found that I've done the best with: - NDF: mobilizes mercury out of your cells and into your bloodstream (but doesn't necessarily get it all out) - Mega-H / Megahydrin: cleans up what the NDF might have missed - Cellfood: Makes me healthy enough so that I can actually take a reasonable dose of NDF (minerals?) - Spectramin: more minerals, to feel better during chelation - Echinacea Premium: supposed to be a " blood cleanser " , and does indeed make me feel better several hours after taking a chelator. - Agrisept-L: stirring up heavy metals in your system can make any candida problems worse, so you may need to take something to keep this in check. The above is what I do, based on years of trial & error with lots of supplements, most of which aren't worth mentioning. :-) But again, what works for me may do nothing for you. On a heavy metal group I'm on, there is a lot of excitement about a newer supplement called " NCD " (natural cellular defense). My holistic dentist has reported good results in his clients as well. I've found this stuff rather harsh and difficult to tolerate, so not everyone has such good luck with it. And then there are the followers of the " Andy Cutler protocol " , which consists of taking DMSA and ALA at frequent doses throughout the day (and night). I've never tried this, but I suspect that my general intolerance towards almost all chelators would probably prohibit me from taking DMSA (there are lots of horror stories from people who've tried). And probably the most important thing of all is dosage -- a chelator can give you a terrible reaction if you take too much of it, but make you feel better if you take an amount which is " just right " for you at the time. And as you get better, that " just right " amount will likely increase. Again, trial & error is needed here, and be cautious about any new supplement at first! > Also, how do you know it is working?! Well, if you take too much of it, you'll feel pretty bad (headache, dehydrated, " metallic taste " in mouth, exhaustion, muscle aches, head pressure. But at least you'll know that it is successfully mobilizing toxins! Actually, you should never be continually taking a dosage that's going to make you feel bad. You should find a dosage that makes you feel better than when you started (when taken at the right dose, NDF actually improves my short-term tolerance for computers). The only way to know if something is truly working is to assess your overall health, and see if it is improving with time. And be patient -- detoxing can takes years! So certainly choose something that you are comfortable with taking long term. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 A key point to remember is that there are in effect 2 stages to chelation - (1) getting it out of your cells and into the bloodstream and (2) getting it out of the bloodstream and out of your body via the kidneys. The second stage is vital immediately after amalgam removal, to make sure any mercury vapour you do accidentally ingest gets mopped up and expelled as fast as possible, and does not get into other parts of the body where it can do more harm (especially the brain). One other point, if at any stage during extraction you feel that the rubber dam may have slipped or something is going wrong, get the dentist to STOP at once! It does not happen often but, as we now know to our cost, if it does, it has severe bad effects for mercury-sensitive individuals. Ian _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Marc Sent: 14 August 2007 01:00 Subject: Re: Chelators Aline wrote: > I've been reading here that people react differently to chelators but > is there any advice about what to start with? A highly controversial subject to be sure. People spend plenty of time arguing about this subject on heavy metal chelation discussion groups. I've tried at least a dozen different heavy metal chelators. I've had good reactions, no reactions, and bad reactions. In the end, I've found that I've done the best with: - NDF: mobilizes mercury out of your cells and into your bloodstream (but doesn't necessarily get it all out) - Mega-H / Megahydrin: cleans up what the NDF might have missed - Cellfood: Makes me healthy enough so that I can actually take a reasonable dose of NDF (minerals?) - Spectramin: more minerals, to feel better during chelation - Echinacea Premium: supposed to be a " blood cleanser " , and does indeed make me feel better several hours after taking a chelator. - Agrisept-L: stirring up heavy metals in your system can make any candida problems worse, so you may need to take something to keep this in check. The above is what I do, based on years of trial & error with lots of supplements, most of which aren't worth mentioning. :-) But again, what works for me may do nothing for you. On a heavy metal group I'm on, there is a lot of excitement about a newer supplement called " NCD " (natural cellular defense). My holistic dentist has reported good results in his clients as well. I've found this stuff rather harsh and difficult to tolerate, so not everyone has such good luck with it. And then there are the followers of the " Andy Cutler protocol " , which consists of taking DMSA and ALA at frequent doses throughout the day (and night). I've never tried this, but I suspect that my general intolerance towards almost all chelators would probably prohibit me from taking DMSA (there are lots of horror stories from people who've tried). And probably the most important thing of all is dosage -- a chelator can give you a terrible reaction if you take too much of it, but make you feel better if you take an amount which is " just right " for you at the time. And as you get better, that " just right " amount will likely increase. Again, trial & error is needed here, and be cautious about any new supplement at first! > Also, how do you know it is working?! Well, if you take too much of it, you'll feel pretty bad (headache, dehydrated, " metallic taste " in mouth, exhaustion, muscle aches, head pressure. But at least you'll know that it is successfully mobilizing toxins! Actually, you should never be continually taking a dosage that's going to make you feel bad. You should find a dosage that makes you feel better than when you started (when taken at the right dose, NDF actually improves my short-term tolerance for computers). The only way to know if something is truly working is to assess your overall health, and see if it is improving with time. And be patient -- detoxing can takes years! So certainly choose something that you are comfortable with taking long term. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Thanks, Ian and Marc. I have postponed my appointments until I have a grasp of all this. Also found that the dentist is not doing all the things that he says on his website when I questioned closely. Both amalgam-free dentists do not use supplemental air to breathe through the nose. One of them said he thinks it is better that the air is filtered in the room but obviously one is going to ingest some mercury vapor before it gets sucked out of the room. I am feeling that neither of these dentists are taking mercury toxicity really seriously. I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume vacuum). Aline In , " Ian Kemp " <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: A key point to remember is that there are in effect 2 stages to chelation - (1) getting it out of your cells and into the bloodstream and (2) getting it out of the bloodstream and out of your body via the kidneys. The second stage is vital immediately after amalgam removal, to make sure any mercury vapour you do accidentally ingest gets mopped up and expelled as fast as possible, and does not get into other parts of the body where it can do more harm (especially the brain). One other point, if at any stage during extraction you feel that the rubber dam may have slipped or something is going wrong, get the dentist to STOP at once! It does not happen often but, as we now know to our cost, if it does, it has severe bad effects for mercury- sensitive individuals. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 > I am feeling that neither of these dentists are taking mercury > toxicity really seriously. Realize that all dentists do not agree on what factors are important for mercury removal. For example, some dentists feel that you must measure the electrical charge on all of your fillings, and then remove them in decreasing order of electrical charge. My dentist said that he used to do this, but didn't feel that it made any difference in the results, so he stopped this practice. I'm not sure that supplemental air is really all that important. When my dentist removed my fillings, it literally took less than than a minute to get each one out. You could hold your breath for that long if you wanted to... :-) Also, there is a factor that you're probably not considering at all -- the novocaine. It was my experience that being given a shot of novocaine mobilized mercury that had been stored my cells, and that caused most of my over-detoxing symptoms. And nobody even mentions the novocaine as being a potential issue (I realized this connection when I was later having a crown redone, and had the same detox symptoms even though no mercury was involved). Novocaine and Procaine are actually used by some doctors for mercury mobilization / chelation. It's a practice known as " neural therapy " , where you make injections in places where large amounts of toxins may be stored in the body, and has been promoted by Dr. Klinghardt. I even had this done once on a scar on my leg. But Ian has made an important point -- there are two issues here... mobilizing the toxins into the bloodstream, and then getting those toxins out of the body. Many of the things advertised as chelators actually only get the toxins into your bloodstream, and then assume that your liver and kidneys will do the rest to get the stuff out of the body. Unfortunately, this is a bad assumption for people who are severely poisoned -- if these organs were functioning correctly in the first place, no poisoning would have ever occurred! So for us, finding substances which will bind onto toxins in the bloodstream and get them out of the body are very important. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 My worry would be more around the possibility of mercury vapour immediately after release being absorbed through the tissues of the mouth, or even small amounts getting past the air dam. If one is sensitive enough to mercury that the small amount continuously leaching from the fillings makes a difference, their removal carries obvious dangers as it mobilises large amounts of mercury suddenly in a very mobile gaseous form. Once it is in the room, however, it should dilute down very fast in the large amount of air. So the ringing in your ear began after filling removal - well yes, that's what happened to Sue, except that it feels like it is not just in one ear, but acrosss a fair amount of her head. Ian _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Aline Sent: 15 August 2007 20:58 Subject: Re: Chelators Thanks, Ian and Marc. I have postponed my appointments until I have a grasp of all this. Also found that the dentist is not doing all the things that he says on his website when I questioned closely. Both amalgam-free dentists do not use supplemental air to breathe through the nose. One of them said he thinks it is better that the air is filtered in the room but obviously one is going to ingest some mercury vapor before it gets sucked out of the room. I am feeling that neither of these dentists are taking mercury toxicity really seriously. I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume vacuum). Aline In groups (DOT) <mailto:%40> com, " Ian Kemp " <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: A key point to remember is that there are in effect 2 stages to chelation - (1) getting it out of your cells and into the bloodstream and (2) getting it out of the bloodstream and out of your body via the kidneys. The second stage is vital immediately after amalgam removal, to make sure any mercury vapour you do accidentally ingest gets mopped up and expelled as fast as possible, and does not get into other parts of the body where it can do more harm (especially the brain). One other point, if at any stage during extraction you feel that the rubber dam may have slipped or something is going wrong, get the dentist to STOP at once! It does not happen often but, as we now know to our cost, if it does, it has severe bad effects for mercury- sensitive individuals. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 > I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a > year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume > vacuum). I don't suppose you remember how much drilling time was spent to remove these fillings? My dentist pointed out that its best to get them out in chunks, to minimize the amount of drilling and minimize the amount of exposure to mercury vapor. Also, a water-cooled drill is supposed to help with this. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 > Both amalgam-free dentists do not use supplemental air to breathe > through the nose. One of them said he thinks it is better that the > air is filtered in the room but obviously one is going to ingest some > mercury vapor before it gets sucked out of the room. I suppose you should also consider that as long as you have those amalgam fillings in your mouth, you are breathing mercury vapors 24 hours per day, 7 days a week. So you need to weigh the benefits/drawbacks of a couple of minutes of increased mercury vapor in the dentists office versus the continual exposure you are getting right now (and the continual exposure increases when exposed to certain EMF fields and hot foods/beverages) But I understand about wanting to be educated and taking the proper precautions. Prior to my filling removal, I bought and read 7 books on the subject, and I can still remember coming home from the dentist and immediately putting all my clothes in the washing machine and taking a shower to eliminate any residual mercury! Marc > > I am feeling that neither of these dentists are taking mercury > toxicity really seriously. > > I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a > year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume > vacuum). > > Aline > > > > In , " Ian Kemp " <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: > > A key point to remember is that there are in effect 2 stages to > chelation - > (1) getting it out of your cells and into the bloodstream and (2) > getting it out of the bloodstream and out of your body via the > kidneys. The second stage is vital immediately after amalgam > removal, to make sure any mercury vapour you do accidentally ingest > gets mopped up and expelled as fast as possible, and does not get > into other parts of the body where it can do more harm (especially > the brain). > > One other point, if at any stage during extraction you feel that the > rubber dam may have slipped or something is going wrong, get the > dentist to STOP at once! It does not happen often but, as we now > know to our cost, if it does, it has severe bad effects for mercury- > sensitive individuals. > > Ian > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 >> I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a >> year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume >> vacuum). Also, remember that opening wide for long periods can affect the TMJ (jaw joint) which in turn can cause tinnitus. It's possible that your symptoms may not be caused by the mercury at all. Not all dots can be connected by a straight line! Emil (retired dentist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Hi Emil, That is interesting to know. Yes, everything is conjecture: I also had a long-haul flight (17 hours in the air) a few days before the tinnitus started so I have wondered about the pressure compacting ear wax. Another clue was that the ringing got very loud one day while I was sitting near a wi-fi box emitting to a microphone. My intuition is that mercury is involved in my tinnitus and my ES, however, so I want to minimize ingestion as much as possible. Aline In , " Less EMF Inc " <lessemf@...> wrote: > > >> I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a > >> year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume > >> vacuum). > > Also, remember that opening wide for long periods can affect the TMJ (jaw > joint) which in turn can cause tinnitus. It's possible that your symptoms > may not be caused by the mercury at all. Not all dots can be connected by a > straight line! > > Emil (retired dentist) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Thanks Marc, That is definitely food for thought. I'm going to stick to gradual removal. Need to get chelation/detoxing organized first though before I re- make my appointment. Sometimes I feel confused and overwhelmed for long periods of time but I have to remind myself that I usually get clarity eventually. It's a steep learning curve though. Aline In , " Marc " <marc@...> wrote: Realize that all dentists do not agree on what factors are important for mercury removal. For example, some dentists feel that you must measure the electrical charge on all of your fillings, and then remove them in decreasing order of electrical charge. My dentist said that he used to do this, but didn't feel that it made any difference in the results, so he stopped this practice. I'm not sure that supplemental air is really all that important. When my dentist removed my fillings, it literally took less than than a minute to get each one out. You could hold your breath for that long if you wanted to... :-) Also, there is a factor that you're probably not considering at all -- the novocaine. It was my experience that being given a shot of novocaine mobilized mercury that had been stored my cells, and that caused most of my over-detoxing symptoms. And nobody even mentions the novocaine as being a potential issue (I realized this connection when I was later having a crown redone, and had the same detox symptoms even though no mercury was involved). Novocaine and Procaine are actually used by some doctors for mercury mobilization / chelation. It's a practice known as " neural therapy " , where you make injections in places where large amounts of toxins may be stored in the body, and has been promoted by Dr. Klinghardt. I even had this done once on a scar on my leg. But Ian has made an important point -- there are two issues here... mobilizing the toxins into the bloodstream, and then getting those toxins out of the body. Many of the things advertised as chelators actually only get the toxins into your bloodstream, and then assume that your liver and kidneys will do the rest to get the stuff out of the body. Unfortunately, this is a bad assumption for people who are severely poisoned -- if these organs were functioning correctly in the first place, no poisoning would have ever occurred! So for us, finding substances which will bind onto toxins in the bloodstream and get them out of the body are very important. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Do I have this right? ALA is for mercury and arsenic DMSA is for lead and mercury DMPS is for mercury and accessor chelators for arsenic I can't remember what does alluminum???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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