Re: Zithromax and chelation together ????

April 7, 2009

> I have just recently stumbled onto the topic of Lyme and the fact that over

80% of chidlren with autism ,also have lyme.

> After much reading I found that the most recommended antibiotic is ZITHROMAX.

This may or may not help. My #4 had strep throat. I gave her 3 rounds of

Zithromax, which caused the strep to go away for a few weeks and then come back.

The fourth time, instead of taking her to the ped again, I gave her OLE, and the

strep went away and never came back.

I don't know if OLE would be effective on lyme tho.

> My question is : Can you do the AC protocol and zithromax at the same time or

is it better to do a trial of Zithromax to see if a child is a responder or

not.How long is a trial ??

I don't know about the chelation with the Zithromax, but I would definitely

think it would increase yeast, since both chelation and Zithromax would tend to

increase yeast.

Dana

April 7, 2009

Did the ped prescribe the Zithromax?

I have a friend whose asd son was recently diagnosed with pneumonia. She gave

him a round of Zithromax during a chelation weekend and said his stimming is

gone and hasn't returned. Also, he isn't holding things in his hands anymore.

She said his asd symptoms are gone.

This is why I am wondering about Lyme as well.

> > I have just recently stumbled onto the topic of Lyme and the fact that over

80% of chidlren with autism ,also have lyme.

> > After much reading I found that the most recommended antibiotic is

ZITHROMAX.

>

> This may or may not help. My #4 had strep throat. I gave her 3 rounds of

Zithromax, which caused the strep to go away for a few weeks and then come back.

The fourth time, instead of taking her to the ped again, I gave her OLE, and the

strep went away and never came back.

>

> I don't know if OLE would be effective on lyme tho.

>

> > My question is : Can you do the AC protocol and zithromax at the same time

or is it better to do a trial of Zithromax to see if a child is a responder or

not.How long is a trial ??

>

> I don't know about the chelation with the Zithromax, but I would definitely

think it would increase yeast, since both chelation and Zithromax would tend to

increase yeast.

>

> Dana

>

April 7, 2009

I would not jump on the bandwagon without some indications that your child has

Lyme or with testing indicating he does. I do not think Lyme is as common as

some say it is.

And honestly, battling viruses without addressing metals first is an uphill

battle. It is very difficult if not impossible to rid the body of these germs

when they are still toxic with metals.

While some parents choose to treat both at the same time, many find this too

difficult to do. Giving antibiotics is going to contribute to yeast, which is

another factor to think over, before trying zithromycin without knowing a child

really needs it.

>

> Dear all,

>

> I have just recently stumbled onto the topic of Lyme and the fact that over

80% of chidlren with autism ,also have lyme.

>

> After much reading I found that the most recommended antibiotic is ZITHROMAX.

>

> My question is : Can you do the AC protocol and zithromax at the same time or

is it better to do a trial of Zithromax to see if a child is a responder or

not.How long is a trial ??

>

> Can someone please reply as I am really confused on this one.

>

> Thanks

> Joanna

>

April 7, 2009

Might it be possible that the germ he has that caused the pneumonia went away on

antiboitics, thus the stimming too? Rather than he had lyme? I don't think a 10

day course of antibiotics is how they treat lyme. Was he on antibotics longer

than the normal 7 0r 10 days?

From what I read, it takes a few weeks on antibotics. Antibotics kill a lot of

things in the body.

I also have read that you get Lyme by being bitten by a tick. And most articles

say that very few tick bites lead to Lyme. They estimate less than 20,000 cases

in the US. And also that it's more common in those who live in heavily wooded

areas.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/

I would use caution with giving antibiotics unless I had a blood test proving my

child has Lyme disease.

> > > I have just recently stumbled onto the topic of Lyme and the fact that

over 80% of chidlren with autism ,also have lyme.

> > > After much reading I found that the most recommended antibiotic is

ZITHROMAX.

> >

> > This may or may not help. My #4 had strep throat. I gave her 3 rounds of

Zithromax, which caused the strep to go away for a few weeks and then come back.

The fourth time, instead of taking her to the ped again, I gave her OLE, and the

strep went away and never came back.

> >

> > I don't know if OLE would be effective on lyme tho.

> >

> > > My question is : Can you do the AC protocol and zithromax at the same time

or is it better to do a trial of Zithromax to see if a child is a responder or

not.How long is a trial ??

> >

> > I don't know about the chelation with the Zithromax, but I would definitely

think it would increase yeast, since both chelation and Zithromax would tend to

increase yeast.

> >

> > Dana

> >

>

April 7, 2009

----- Original Message -----

From: michellebondy

===>Ours used Zithromax for awhile for a positive to Mycoplasm, a coinfection

of Lyme supposedly. We did notice some small improvements, nothing major. But

you could try a course of Z and see, but know that for some kids Z will cause

gut problems and for all will deplete good bacteria.

We did not notice any stomach problems here with it, like we did with

Amoxicillin and we always ask for Z if ours has strep throat or something else

requiring antibiotics. The kind of response your friend is reporting is rare,

but maybe worth weighing the pros and cons and trying a course.

Did the ped prescribe the Zithromax?

I have a friend whose asd son was recently diagnosed with pneumonia. She gave

him a round of Zithromax during a chelation weekend and said his stimming is

gone and hasn't returned. Also, he isn't holding things in his hands anymore.

She said his asd symptoms are gone.

This is why I am wondering about Lyme as well.

> > I have just recently stumbled onto the topic of Lyme and the fact that

over 80% of chidlren with autism ,also have lyme.

> > After much reading I found that the most recommended antibiotic is

ZITHROMAX.

>

> This may or may not help. My #4 had strep throat. I gave her 3 rounds of

Zithromax, which caused the strep to go away for a few weeks and then come back.

The fourth time, instead of taking her to the ped again, I gave her OLE, and the

strep went away and never came back.

>

> I don't know if OLE would be effective on lyme tho.

>

> > My question is : Can you do the AC protocol and zithromax at the same time

or is it better to do a trial of Zithromax to see if a child is a responder or

not.How long is a trial ??

>

> I don't know about the chelation with the Zithromax, but I would definitely

think it would increase yeast, since both chelation and Zithromax would tend to

increase yeast.

>

> Dana

>

April 7, 2009

Hi Jan!

I checked the pictures of the website you sent:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/

and for the first time I see the same type of rash that my son gets from time to

time......it's the same shape, itch & hurts he gets very tired and w/flu kind of

symptoms.. it's only one at the time....happened twice almost within a year...

they look juts like the picture in this link:

http://www.dermatlas.org/derm/IndexDisplay.cfm?ImageID=-1806004766

I will say with more tinny black points that look like tinny short hairs...

sames shape, they always shows in the inner part of his leg [same leg by the

way.]

they disappear in 3 days and stop to hurt or itch in 1 day or so..

Should I test him?

> > > > I have just recently stumbled onto the topic of Lyme and the fact that

over 80% of chidlren with autism ,also have lyme.

> > > > After much reading I found that the most recommended antibiotic is

ZITHROMAX.

> > >

> > > This may or may not help. My #4 had strep throat. I gave her 3 rounds of

Zithromax, which caused the strep to go away for a few weeks and then come back.

The fourth time, instead of taking her to the ped again, I gave her OLE, and the

strep went away and never came back.

> > >

> > > I don't know if OLE would be effective on lyme tho.

> > >

> > > > My question is : Can you do the AC protocol and zithromax at the same

time or is it better to do a trial of Zithromax to see if a child is a responder

or not.How long is a trial ??

> > >

> > > I don't know about the chelation with the Zithromax, but I would

definitely think it would increase yeast, since both chelation and Zithromax

would tend to increase yeast.

> > >

> > > Dana

> > >

> >

>

April 7, 2009

We just did a course of zithromax for sinus infection. While on antibiotics

my dd functions much better, but when she's done

taking them the behavioral issues come back. Any thoughts on this?

Kathy

[ ] Re: Zithromax and chelation together ????

>I would not jump on the bandwagon without some indications that your child

>has Lyme or with testing indicating he does. I do not think Lyme is as

>common as some say it is.

>

> And honestly, battling viruses without addressing metals first is an

> uphill battle. It is very difficult if not impossible to rid the body of

> these germs when they are still toxic with metals.

>

> While some parents choose to treat both at the same time, many find this

> too difficult to do. Giving antibiotics is going to contribute to yeast,

> which is another factor to think over, before trying zithromycin without

> knowing a child really needs it.

>

April 7, 2009

Antibiotics kill many things, good and bad bacteria in the body.

I noticed this same effect when I take them, but after a while the problems

return when the yeast comes back and whatever bacteria it killed. It would

depend upon what germs a person had in their body/gut and if those were

temporarily killed of taking the antibiotics. The problem with using them is

that they create resistance and cause leaky gut over time....so they would not

be a fix.

What your seeing sounds like yeast. Yeast comes in full blown after a course of

antibiotics.

>

> We just did a course of zithromax for sinus infection. While on antibiotics

> my dd functions much better, but when she's done

> taking them the behavioral issues come back. Any thoughts on this?

> Kathy

>

> [ ] Re: Zithromax and chelation together ????

>

> >I would not jump on the bandwagon without some indications that your child

> >has Lyme or with testing indicating he does. I do not think Lyme is as

> >common as some say it is.

> >

> > And honestly, battling viruses without addressing metals first is an

> > uphill battle. It is very difficult if not impossible to rid the body of

> > these germs when they are still toxic with metals.

> >

> > While some parents choose to treat both at the same time, many find this

> > too difficult to do. Giving antibiotics is going to contribute to yeast,

> > which is another factor to think over, before trying zithromycin without

> > knowing a child really needs it.

> >

>

April 7, 2009

yes, she always does better with a fever and or antibiotics although this is

the first course of antibiotics

in a long time and she's had a lot of gut healing. we did a week of

diflucan but did not make a difference.

her stomach is obviously upset after using zithromax.

[ ] Re: Zithromax and chelation together ????

> Antibiotics kill many things, good and bad bacteria in the body.

>

> I noticed this same effect when I take them, but after a while the

> problems return when the yeast comes back and whatever bacteria it killed.

> It would depend upon what germs a person had in their body/gut and if

> those were temporarily killed of taking the antibiotics. The problem with

> using them is that they create resistance and cause leaky gut over

> time....so they would not be a fix.

>

> What your seeing sounds like yeast. Yeast comes in full blown after a

> course of antibiotics.

>

April 8, 2009

Some general info:

Zithromax competes with magnesium and therefore tends to cause a magnesium

deficiency. Because they compete for the same receptor sites in cells, you

cannot take them together. If you supplement with magnesium, you need to wait

at least two hours between the two things -- actually, you need to wait two

hours after one of them and more like four hours after the other, but I can't

remember which is which.

Some info about magnesium and zithromax:

http://healthgazelle.org/magnesiumandazythromycin.shtml

The woman who wrote the comments on that page has said that she believes that

magnesium depletion by zithromax and related antibiotics is one reason that

people get sick again after they come off of these drugs. Zithromax was my drug

of choice when I used to do the conventional medicine thing. One reason it is a

good drug is because it is a strong anti-inflammatory. Anti-inflammatory

medications have a track record of reducing incidence of infection. I used to

take about 5 different prescription medications which had anti-inflammatory

properties as their primary or secondary effect. I gradually got off all of

them by reducing acidity in my body. Excess acidity causes inflammation. The

typical American diet is too acid and therefore promotes inflammation. My

condition, cystic fibrosis, also is strongly associated with extreme excess

acidity. I believe that excess acidity fundamentally impairs the immune

function of the body and that getting excess acidity under control is necessary

to get infections under control.

I spoke with a woman who had Lyme and I suggested she switch to Celtic Sea Salt.

She remarked to me that it seemed to be helping her body combat the Lyme. I

think good quality sea salt makes a major positive impact on the functioning of

the body. I have tried at least three other brands of sea salt and none of them

did for me what Celtic does.

Zithromax is also very hard on the liver and some people have died of liver

failure after taking it -- in some cases after taking it just once. So I would

highly recommend that if you use zithromax, you also take liver support, like

milk thistle, and supplement with magnesium either while on zithro of after you

are done with it.

In my experience, antibiotics usually don't fully clear up infections. They

seem to just knock them back below the radar so they can quietly brew and wait

for the body to be under enough stress and they erupt again. I believe this is

one reason some people get " recurrent " infections: The infection never really

went completely away, it just got knocked back enough to become asymptomatic. I

have found that a pincer movement works better: Give the body the resources it

needs to fight infection and also do things that kill infection. If you don't

do this, I think all you are doing is introducing environmental pressures that

promote evolution -- ie you are just encouraging the development of antibiotic

resistant infections.

On a positive note, when I did take a lot of antibiotics, I found that if I

faithfully ate organic yogurt 2 to 3 times a day while on them, the healthy

flora in my gut gradually became more resistant to the antibiotics. I still had

gut problems from the antibiotics, but they were not as severe.

Since yeast feeds on die-off, I have concluded that antibiotics promote yeast in

part by causing die-off. I have found that no matter what method I use to kill

infection, if I am doing it successfully, then I also end up battling yeast. I

have gotten better at pacing my battles with infection so that the yeast

problems aren't so extreme. And I have also gotten better at treating the yeast

issues.

I'm not crazy about antibiotics. I have found that OLE, OOO, diet tonic water

(which contains quinine), hot and cold treatments, peroxide, PH balance,

agressive supplementation, and sea salt (combined with lifestyle changes) are

more effective at genuinely healing the body because they don't poison the body

in the process of killing off infection. In the cystic fibrosis community, it

is generally accepted that cystic fibrosis is " progressive " and causes a steady

decline in health until it finally kills you. But they also take boatloads of

medication to keep themselves alive. When I was using antibiotics and other

conventional drugs, I also saw steady decline in my health and required more and

more drugs to keep myself from dying. But it was a nightmare and I came to a

point where I wanted to either get genuinely well or go ahead and die. A long,

slow, torturous death didn't appeal to me. I was willing to take risks to try

to get well because dying suddenly had more appeal for me than what doctor's

were promising me. So I really don't recommend antibiotics. I believe that the

short term good they do is outweighed by long term costs.

If you feel you have no other choice (because, say, death from infection is

imminent without them and you don't already know a better way to combat

infection), then at least expect to work extra hard on mop-up after you are done

with the drugs. You will need to repair the damage to the gut and you will need

to work at trying to get the remaining drug residues out the body. I have been

pursuing alternative stuff for closing in on 8 years and gradually taking less

and less medication. I am still having drug residues come out of my body, some

from when I was a child. I believe that if you don't get them out, then you are

living with poison in your system and it is not fundamentally different from

leaving heavy metals in the body.

Peace.

Michele

http://www.healthgazelle.org

http://www.kidslikemine.org

http://www.solanorail.org

April 8, 2009

One more point I wanted to make:

Magnesium is an alkaline mineral, so a magnesium deficiency tends to cause

excess acidity. Since excess acidity is inflammatory and promotes infection, I

believe that taking zithromax does promote infection in its wake and I believe

that taking it creates a need to stay on it (or on similar drugs) to try to keep

the inflammation and infection under control. To me, it just makes more sense

to address the excess acidity and nutritional deficiencies to begin with. Doing

so does not cause negative side effects and does not cause long-term negative

consequences. Doing so has helped me gradually walk away from all the drugs I

used to be on and stop spending every other weekend in the ER and fun stuff like

that.

Again: If you do take zithro, the trick to escaping this vicious cycle is to

take magnesium, work hard on cleaning up the gut, work hard on getting PH

balance under control...etc.... (all the stuff I would recommend anyway as a

means to support the body's ability to combat infection, grow strong, and heal

up in the first place, with or without antibiotics or other drugs).

Peace.

Michele

http://www.healthgazelle.org

http://www.kidslikemine.org

http://www.solanorail.org

April 8, 2009

Hi girls,

thanks a million for the quick replies. I really appreciate the sharing of

information. Personally, i think i willdo a few weeks more of chelation (nearing

our 26th round)and then give zithromax a try.

I will keep you updated.

Take care

Joanna

>

> One more point I wanted to make:

> Magnesium is an alkaline mineral, so a magnesium deficiency tends to cause