Re:fingernail vertical ridges and pitting

[Guest guest]

I asked about nail ridges while chelating my son three years ago. Tami Duncan

weighed in and said that is a major sign of lyme disease. At first I was like no

way, my video gamer son hasn't left the house in four years, he can't have lyme

disease. Come to find out there is a chronic form of lyme that kids can have

from birth if the mom had it. I had it but was asymptomatic. Anyway, long story

short. We are testing our kids for lyme through IGENEX (the best testing lab)

and the first test did come out positive. So, for ridges, don't discount

testing for lyme. The test is $280 or so. It is important to know because Andy

Cutler chelation alone would not be enough of a treatment to do if your child

had lyme disease. You have to kill the lyme too. There is a site for lyme

induced autism, the LIA foundation. There is a group called

BorrielaMultipleInfectionsandAutism. It is a group just like this one.

[Guest guest]

>

> I asked about nail ridges while chelating my son three years ago. Tami Duncan

weighed in and said that is a major sign of lyme disease.

I don't believe it.

>At first I was like no way, my video gamer son hasn't left the house in four

years, he can't have lyme disease. Come to find out there is a chronic form of

lyme that kids can have from birth if the mom had it. I had it but was

asymptomatic. Anyway, long story short. We are testing our kids for lyme through

IGENEX (the best testing lab)

or at least one with a high enough false positive rate that everyone seems to

have Lyme disease even though most don't.

>and the first test did come out positive. So, for ridges, don't discount

testing for lyme.

but use a normal mainstream insurance covered lab. If THAT shows Lyme disease,

worry about it. Otherwise not,

>The test is $280 or so. It is important to know because Andy Cutler chelation

alone would not be enough of a treatment to do if your child had lyme disease.

You have to kill the lyme too. There is a site for lyme induced autism, the LIA

foundation. There is a group called BorrielaMultipleInfectionsandAutism.

It is a group just like this one.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Andy,

I respectfully completely disagree with you. My husband and son had been sick

for 20 years with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity. Every single person in our

family has been sick. Our youngest daughter was diagnosed with uveitis and

juvenille rheumatoid arthritis. Our son recovered using your chelation but he

is regressing. We are treating for the coinfections of lyme and getting better.

If this is the case, chelation is not enough, you have to kill the infections

also. We are combining your chelation with zinc loading and testing for KPU.

My son had huge gains and recovered on your protocol but we were also zinc

loading and I was adding things to the pill minder based on intuition and muscle

testing. I still love and adore your protocol, it gave me my son back. I have

been trying to figure out why my son had the huge gains on your protocol for two

years and lyme disease in my gut I know is a missing piece. KPU is a missing

piece. I didn't want to believe it either. I rejected the idea for three years

until I came to the phase of acceptance. We really missed your presence at the

LIA Conference. I thought what a shame that you don't really play nice for

those things, and also its ok that you don't. I saw a lot of conflict of

interest, enough to make me mad, but I just chose not to say anything. One of

the only recovered children there was my son, and I put in the good word for

your protocol while I was there. But there is something bothering me about the

protocol, Andy. When my son became verbal and could speak, he said he hated me

because of the pills, and he said the treatment was too hard on him. I think we

need to strive for a more " elegant " and easier detox. One of my ideas is that

we needed to use four times the liver support we were using while on your

protocol, and also address the adrenals. Listen to the voices of the recovered.

My son said the treatment was effective but too grueling. We need to find ways

of making this easier. I know that you and Dr. K have disagreed in the past but

everyone else is moving forward trying to find easier and more effective ways of

detox. If Dr. K is correct about the genetic defect causing people to pee out

300mg of zinc a day, then my son would need to be on chelation and zinc loading

for life. There is no way he could tolerate your protocol as it was, as we did

it, for life. So we need some answers and we need smart people to get along to

get these answers.

The nice and wonderful thing about being a mom and not working for anyone is

that I am free to pick and choose pieces of any protocol that works for my son

and cross political and egotistical lines to do so. I am not here to make

friends, I am here to get well. I am sure you feel the same way. But I learned

from my cousin to smile and nod and listen and kiss ass if need be, to get what

I need for my children. To quote Madagascar the movie, Smile and wave boys,

smile and wave.

[Guest guest]

I also have to respectfully disagree about the Lyme disease testing.

Regular labs that insurance pays for use the updated, very strict CDC

criteria for being positive for Lyme. However, these criteria were made for

surveillance, not diagnosis of Lyme, and hence are excessively narrow. Also,

a few years ago, the CDC changed the criteria in a way that made it even

harder to test positive, even though people who knew about it said that the

changes were strange and hard to justify, since the test bands they were

deleting were strongly associated with Lyme.

Article on this:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_251/ai_n6112662/

Also, people can be positive for Lyme disease but test negative for various

reasons. See the reasons on this page:

http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C351933.html

I tested positive for Lyme with my doctor's test, probably because I was

tested about five weeks after contracting it. I see a Lyme-literate doctor

and hear about what other Lyme-literate doctors do, and they all use the

Igenex test.

I don't know about the false positive rate at Igenex. I know there's a

tendency to say that everyone has Lyme disease, etc etc. Well, even if it's

not Lyme per se, having these certain immune bands says something... and

there are many, many Lyme-like infections requiring similar treatment. If

you get a test done, you can look at which bands you had on the Western blot

and make your decision accordingly.

I haven't heard of ridged nails indicating Lyme disease. I thought they were

a sign of insufficient nutrition, perhaps inadequate B vitamins.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Badaboom <badaboom@...> wrote:

>

>

> Andy,

>

> I respectfully completely disagree with you. My husband and son had been

> sick for 20 years with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity. Every single person in

> our family has been sick. Our youngest daughter was diagnosed with uveitis

> and juvenille rheumatoid arthritis. Our son recovered using your chelation

> but he is regressing. We are treating for the coinfections of lyme and

> getting better. If this is the case, chelation is not enough, you have to

> kill the infections also. We are combining your chelation with zinc loading

> and testing for KPU. My son had huge gains and recovered on your protocol

> but we were also zinc loading and I was adding things to the pill minder

> based on intuition and muscle testing. I still love and adore your protocol,

> it gave me my son back. I have been trying to figure out why my son had the

> huge gains on your protocol for two years and lyme disease in my gut I know

> is a missing piece. KPU is a missing piece. I didn't want to believe it

> either. I rejected the idea for three years until I came to the phase of

> acceptance. We really missed your presence at the LIA Conference. I thought

> what a shame that you don't really play nice for those things, and also its

> ok that you don't. I saw a lot of conflict of interest, enough to make me

> mad, but I just chose not to say anything. One of the only recovered

> children there was my son, and I put in the good word for your protocol

> while I was there. But there is something bothering me about the protocol,

> Andy. When my son became verbal and could speak, he said he hated me because

> of the pills, and he said the treatment was too hard on him. I think we need

> to strive for a more " elegant " and easier detox. One of my ideas is that we

> needed to use four times the liver support we were using while on your

> protocol, and also address the adrenals. Listen to the voices of the

> recovered. My son said the treatment was effective but too grueling. We need

> to find ways of making this easier. I know that you and Dr. K have disagreed

> in the past but everyone else is moving forward trying to find easier and

> more effective ways of detox. If Dr. K is correct about the genetic defect

> causing people to pee out 300mg of zinc a day, then my son would need to be

> on chelation and zinc loading for life. There is no way he could tolerate

> your protocol as it was, as we did it, for life. So we need some answers and

> we need smart people to get along to get these answers.

>

> The nice and wonderful thing about being a mom and not working for anyone

> is that I am free to pick and choose pieces of any protocol that works for

> my son and cross political and egotistical lines to do so. I am not here to

> make friends, I am here to get well. I am sure you feel the same way. But I

> learned from my cousin to smile and nod and listen and kiss ass if need be,

> to get what I need for my children. To quote Madagascar the movie, Smile and

> wave boys, smile and wave.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, are you Axe?

[Guest guest]

> I haven't heard of ridged nails indicating Lyme disease. I thought they were

> a sign of insufficient nutrition, perhaps inadequate B vitamins.

It is interesting that we disagree on everything but this.

Thus in this case further discussion of the realities of Lyme disease versus the

fads and fashions of alternative medicine are unnecessary.

Andy

<a href= " http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html " >Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and

Treatment</a >

<a href= " http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html " >Hair Test Interpretation:

Finding Hidden Toxicities</a >

<a href= " http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html " >Nourishing Hope for

Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children</a >

<a href= " http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html " >Biological

Treatments for Autism and PDD</a >

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi, are you Axe?

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>But it is no small thing to wrap your mind around the fact that Autism

could be induced by lyme disease.>>>>>>

Chronic lyme is nothing. It's like UFOs. Lots of speculation, rumors,

superstition, no facts.

[Guest guest]

My compliments to a true warrior!! What a very fortunate son to have such

an outstanding/proactive mother. From a grandfather of an autistic son.

Sam.

[ ] Re:fingernail vertical ridges and pitting

>

> Hi, are you Axe?

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

You do not need Andy's approval if you believe your child has Lyme and you

need to treat it.

Also, you may discuss it all you like (as far as I know). Andy seemed to

indicate that he is done discussing it but you don't have to be.

After you treat, maybe you can post about your experience, if it helped

and if the nail ridges disappeared.

Best wishes,

Rosegvr/

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy

steps!

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585087x1201462804/aol?redir=http://\

www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=

JulystepsfooterNO62)

[Guest guest]

>

> >>>>>>But it is no small thing to wrap your mind around the fact that Autism

could be induced by lyme disease.>>>>>>

>

> Chronic lyme is nothing. It's like UFOs. Lots of speculation, rumors,

superstition, no facts.

>

Dude, I believe that ufo's are real and there is an area 51 too, so bring it.

You are wrong. Why is no discussion allowed on this? We have discussed

everything else on this list for the four years I have been on it? Lets just

start with the IGENEX test, Andy from a scientific point of view, you being a

scientist, what facts or information do you have that the test finds a positive

result of lyme for everyone? As a listmember active on this list having

recovered a child with your protocol, who also has a child who had a vision

threatening eye disease that is heavily linked to lyme disease whose vision is

at steak, it is of the utmost importance to me that we discuss these issues and

fables and see if they could possibly indeed be true. Because if my daughter

has lyme disease and we are not treating it because the hospital testing is

inaccurate, she could lose her vision. Parents of autistic children have

nothing to lose by trying treatments. With every biomedical treatment I choose

for my daughter with uveitis, her vision is what we have to lose. I want you to

think of eight year old from Kansas who has uveitis and will be taking the

IGENEX test next week and tell my why this test is inaccurate and why I should

dismiss it's results and not treat my child for lyme. Please stay with the

didiscussion Andy, please give it a second look. If not for me, for , child

#5, thank you.

[Guest guest]

Lyme, and all other parasitic infections, would have to take hold only because

of a weakened or defective immune system though. It's difficult for me to

understand how treating something that is an effect, not a cause, would be

helpful (unless treated at the same time as the underlying cause). What would

keep you from becoming infected again?

I disagree that Lyme disease is a cause though. I think it is an effect. What

did you learn at the conference that you can share?

> >

> > >>>>>>But it is no small thing to wrap your mind around the fact that Autism

could be induced by lyme disease.>>>>>>

> >

> > Chronic lyme is nothing. It's like UFOs. Lots of speculation, rumors,

superstition, no facts.

> >

>

> Dude, I believe that ufo's are real and there is an area 51 too, so bring it.

You are wrong. Why is no discussion allowed on this? We have discussed

everything else on this list for the four years I have been on it? Lets just

start with the IGENEX test, Andy from a scientific point of view, you being a

scientist, what facts or information do you have that the test finds a positive

result of lyme for everyone? As a listmember active on this list having

recovered a child with your protocol, who also has a child who had a vision

threatening eye disease that is heavily linked to lyme disease whose vision is

at steak, it is of the utmost importance to me that we discuss these issues and

fables and see if they could possibly indeed be true. Because if my daughter

has lyme disease and we are not treating it because the hospital testing is

inaccurate, she could lose her vision. Parents of autistic children have

nothing to lose by trying treatments. With every biomedical treatment I choose

for my daughter with uveitis, her vision is what we have to lose. I want you to

think of eight year old from Kansas who has uveitis and will be taking the

IGENEX test next week and tell my why this test is inaccurate and why I should

dismiss it's results and not treat my child for lyme. Please stay with the

didiscussion Andy, please give it a second look. If not for me, for , child

#5, thank you.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Anyone who has ever known me in my entire life has never ever ever called me

trendy. This would be a total first. I am not trendy nor do I go after fads. I

have always been the person who was after truth and would take a stand alone if

I had to. I have always been the orange on the poster full of apples. But no,

not trendy. I have to take people to shop with me so I will even look cool,

honestly.

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From:

===>I would be impressed by a positive Lyme test, IF the kids that have

them....DON'T also have documented high metal loads. But most of the ones who do

the Lyme/Autism thing also have kids with high metal loads which is not so

impressive at all. Treat the metals AND the Lyme and don't hyperfocus on the

Lyme as the source of every problem. You are never going to kill the Lyme (if

they do have it) until you get the metal load reduced.

Lyme, and all other parasitic infections, would have to take hold only because

of a weakened or defective immune system though. It's difficult for me to

understand how treating something that is an effect, not a cause, would be

helpful (unless treated at the same time as the underlying cause). What would

keep you from becoming infected again?

I disagree that Lyme disease is a cause though. I think it is an effect. What

did you learn at the conference that you can share?

> >

> > >>>>>>But it is no small thing to wrap your mind around the fact that

Autism could be induced by lyme disease.>>>>>>

> >

> > Chronic lyme is nothing. It's like UFOs. Lots of speculation, rumors,

superstition, no facts.

> >

>

> Dude, I believe that ufo's are real and there is an area 51 too, so bring

it. You are wrong. Why is no discussion allowed on this? We have discussed

everything else on this list for the four years I have been on it? Lets just

start with the IGENEX test, Andy from a scientific point of view, you being a

scientist, what facts or information do you have that the test finds a positive

result of lyme for everyone? As a listmember active on this list having

recovered a child with your protocol, who also has a child who had a vision

threatening eye disease that is heavily linked to lyme disease whose vision is

at steak, it is of the utmost importance to me that we discuss these issues and

fables and see if they could possibly indeed be true. Because if my daughter has

lyme disease and we are not treating it because the hospital testing is

inaccurate, she could lose her vision. Parents of autistic children have nothing

to lose by trying treatments. With every biomedical treatment I choose for my

daughter with uveitis, her vision is what we have to lose. I want you to think

of eight year old from Kansas who has uveitis and will be taking the

IGENEX test next week and tell my why this test is inaccurate and why I should

dismiss it's results and not treat my child for lyme. Please stay with the

didiscussion Andy, please give it a second look. If not for me, for , child

#5, thank you.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's how I feel too . I have the utmost respect for in

following God's urging for her to go to the conference though. It must have

been for some personal importance for her family, or in what she would learn.

> > >

> > > >>>>>>But it is no small thing to wrap your mind around the fact that

Autism could be induced by lyme disease.>>>>>>

> > >

> > > Chronic lyme is nothing. It's like UFOs. Lots of speculation, rumors,

superstition, no facts.

> > >

> >

> > Dude, I believe that ufo's are real and there is an area 51 too, so bring

it. You are wrong. Why is no discussion allowed on this? We have discussed

everything else on this list for the four years I have been on it? Lets just

start with the IGENEX test, Andy from a scientific point of view, you being a

scientist, what facts or information do you have that the test finds a positive

result of lyme for everyone? As a listmember active on this list having

recovered a child with your protocol, who also has a child who had a vision

threatening eye disease that is heavily linked to lyme disease whose vision is

at steak, it is of the utmost importance to me that we discuss these issues and

fables and see if they could possibly indeed be true. Because if my daughter has

lyme disease and we are not treating it because the hospital testing is

inaccurate, she could lose her vision. Parents of autistic children have nothing

to lose by trying treatments. With every biomedical treatment I choose for my

daughter with uveitis, her vision is what we have to lose. I want you to think

of eight year old from Kansas who has uveitis and will be taking the

IGENEX test next week and tell my why this test is inaccurate and why I should

dismiss it's results and not treat my child for lyme. Please stay with the

didiscussion Andy, please give it a second look. If not for me, for , child

#5, thank you.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually the lyme people are all chelating. You have to because the lyme wraps

around mercury and when you kill lyme it displaces metals. So, chelation is a

dual treatment that is going to need to happen right along side lyme treatment.

Also more than just lyme there are several coinfections of lyme that are just as

nasty as lyme or worse. So, they are dealing with everything we are dealing

with, they are just adding extra liver support, extra antioxidants, energy

healing, and treatments to kill the infections. It will be very elegant when it

all fits together and in my opinion Andy and his chelation method belongs and

fits right in with the lyme people who can " agree to disagree " on methodology of

chelation, possibly lighten up and laugh at their differences, and still work

together to exchange ideas for the benefit of the children. I think Andy just

doesn't know it yet that he belongs over there exchanging notes with the

thriiive panel....so thats my .02.

Did you ever know someone that you had so much in common with you could have

been best friends but for some reason you ended up as worst enemies? We need to

send our smart people to camp together and exchange notes. So I would like to

hear from Andy what exactly point by point he disagrees with, besides ala,

glutathione, sauna, and chlorella, and that lyme doesn't exist and that everyone

tests postitive for the IGENEX, which I know isn't true, I have met people who

have tested negative on the IGENEX. To me, these are all differences in opinion

that can be worked around and we can still help each other for the children. I

mean, isn't that why we are all here and why we work so hard? It's for the kids!

As far as why you even need to treat it, it is an infection, a biofilm, a

something that has to be dealt with to get a full recovery of health for our

kids. No one in the lyme community that I have been on multiple lists reading

about for a year hyperfocuses on the lyme. This is not true. They are focused

on opening up detox pathways, and chelating out toxins, dealing with yeast,

figuring out food allergies, controlling inflammation, and primarily treating

the coinfections before they ever deal with the lyme. They are so alike, I can

see clearly that we are all on the same team.

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>But it is no small thing to wrap your mind around the fact that

Autism could be induced by lyme disease.>>>>>>

> > > >

> > > > Chronic lyme is nothing. It's like UFOs. Lots of speculation, rumors,

superstition, no facts.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Dude, I believe that ufo's are real and there is an area 51 too, so

bring it. You are wrong. Why is no discussion allowed on this? We have discussed

everything else on this list for the four years I have been on it? Lets just

start with the IGENEX test, Andy from a scientific point of view, you being a

scientist, what facts or information do you have that the test finds a positive

result of lyme for everyone? As a listmember active on this list having

recovered a child with your protocol, who also has a child who had a vision

threatening eye disease that is heavily linked to lyme disease whose vision is

at steak, it is of the utmost importance to me that we discuss these issues and

fables and see if they could possibly indeed be true. Because if my daughter has

lyme disease and we are not treating it because the hospital testing is

inaccurate, she could lose her vision. Parents of autistic children have nothing

to lose by trying treatments. With every biomedical treatment I choose for my

daughter with uveitis, her vision is what we have to lose. I want you to think

of eight year old from Kansas who has uveitis and will be taking the

IGENEX test next week and tell my why this test is inaccurate and why I should

dismiss it's results and not treat my child for lyme. Please stay with the

didiscussion Andy, please give it a second look. If not for me, for , child

#5, thank you.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From:

Actually the lyme people are all chelating.

===>This is good to know, my exposure to Lyme people are the ones on the mb12

board, who give some credence to metals, but are not chelating, glad to have

this answer.

There is a book called " The Top 10 Lyme Treatments " in which the author

reports heavy metals and Lyme often go together and both must be treated.

We had Mycoplasm, a coinfection of Lyme, so they say, we treated it and

chelated. I did not see that it was the source of many of her problems, treating

it didn't yield huge results, but chelation did.

No one in the lyme community that I have been on multiple lists reading about

for a year hyperfocuses on the lyme.

===>Oh, disagree here, if you read the Lyme symptoms I dare you to find anyone

living who doesn't have Lyme. And Lyme induced Autism? Sounds hyperfocused to

me.

I would leave no option unchecked. I hope you find your answer, . Have

you tested for heavy metals?

This is not true. They are focused on opening up detox pathways, and chelating

out toxins, dealing with yeast, figuring out food allergies, controlling

inflammation, and primarily treating the coinfections before they ever deal with

the lyme. They are so alike, I can see clearly that we are all on the same team.

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>But it is no small thing to wrap your mind around the fact that

Autism could be induced by lyme disease.>>>>>>

> > > >

> > > > Chronic lyme is nothing. It's like UFOs. Lots of speculation, rumors,

superstition, no facts.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Dude, I believe that ufo's are real and there is an area 51 too, so

bring it. You are wrong. Why is no discussion allowed on this? We have discussed

everything else on this list for the four years I have been on it? Lets just

start with the IGENEX test, Andy from a scientific point of view, you being a

scientist, what facts or information do you have that the test finds a positive

result of lyme for everyone? As a listmember active on this list having

recovered a child with your protocol, who also has a child who had a vision

threatening eye disease that is heavily linked to lyme disease whose vision is

at steak, it is of the utmost importance to me that we discuss these issues and

fables and see if they could possibly indeed be true. Because if my daughter has

lyme disease and we are not treating it because the hospital testing is

inaccurate, she could lose her vision. Parents of autistic children have nothing

to lose by trying treatments. With every biomedical treatment I choose for my

daughter with uveitis, her vision is what we have to lose. I want you to think

of eight year old from Kansas who has uveitis and will be taking the

IGENEX test next week and tell my why this test is inaccurate and why I should

dismiss it's results and not treat my child for lyme. Please stay with the

didiscussion Andy, please give it a second look. If not for me, for , child

#5, thank you.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

What are the choices of people with Lyme and food sensitivities though? I think

I have researched this before and the treatment for lyme is long-term

antibiotics, am I right? It's a hard decision especially when the tests for

lyme don't seem very reliable...destroy everything with antibiotics or keep the

small amount beneficial bacteria you do have in your gut. Using the antibiotics

for a long time really scares me, I don't think it's easy to repopulate gut

bacteria, certainly it's more complicated than just taking probiotics.

> > > > >

> > > > > >>>>>>But it is no small thing to wrap your mind around the fact

that Autism could be induced by lyme disease.>>>>>>

> > > > >

> > > > > Chronic lyme is nothing. It's like UFOs. Lots of speculation,

rumors, superstition, no facts.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dude, I believe that ufo's are real and there is an area 51 too, so

bring it. You are wrong. Why is no discussion allowed on this? We have discussed

everything else on this list for the four years I have been on it? Lets just

start with the IGENEX test, Andy from a scientific point of view, you being a

scientist, what facts or information do you have that the test finds a positive

result of lyme for everyone? As a listmember active on this list having

recovered a child with your protocol, who also has a child who had a vision

threatening eye disease that is heavily linked to lyme disease whose vision is

at steak, it is of the utmost importance to me that we discuss these issues and

fables and see if they could possibly indeed be true. Because if my daughter has

lyme disease and we are not treating it because the hospital testing is

inaccurate, she could lose her vision. Parents of autistic children have nothing

to lose by trying treatments. With every biomedical treatment I choose for my

daughter with uveitis, her vision is what we have to lose. I want you to think

of eight year old from Kansas who has uveitis and will be taking the

IGENEX test next week and tell my why this test is inaccurate and why I should

dismiss it's results and not treat my child for lyme. Please stay with the

didiscussion Andy, please give it a second look. If not for me, for , child

#5, thank you.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

This is my concern, as well. All the antibiotics! They scare the freaking crap

out of me. First of all, I've had a severe allergic reaction to every antibiotic

I've ever taken as an adult (could be the " booster " vax's doc gave me at 22 for

my first marriage, when my state still required blood work for a marriage

license. Was never allergic until after that. Hmmm. Also developed allergy to

MSG and sorbitol then too! Of course those ARE poisons, but I have SEVERE

response to them - end up hospitalized).

Secondly, I believe overuse of antibiotics contributed to my son's autism. Dr.

Shaw, I believe mentions something like that, in his book on autism, as well.

ON THE OTHER HAND - I've heard MANY natural/alternative health folks say that

dealing with biofilms/myco -whatchmacallit's were necessary for their kids

autism recovery - even those who don't get into Lyme stuff.

Maybe there is something odd, or additional going on for some people, in

addition to the metal? Maybe this is where the 'non-responders' come in?

Maybe not LYME as we currently know it, since the testing is so unreliable. I

wonder if " it " that some call Lyme, can be traced to some sort of bacteria in a

vaccine - that somehow has something to do with the metals? What if it is some

sort of mutated bacteria that the mercury was supposed to kill, but didn't? Is

that even scientifically plausible? What if there isn't a proper test for this

bacteria, but the Lyme test sorta/kinda can catch it sometimes?

Chemistry was never my strong suit, and God apparently has a wry sense of humor

and put me where I HAVE to learn about it to help my kid.

I see so many going same direction, different pathways. Every kid seems to have

immune/allergy, dietary, gut, yeast, metals, viral, neuro, vitamin/mineral/amino

acid deficiencies and some sort of bacterial issues. What works on each of these

varies from kid to kid. Even with Andy's Amazing Protocol (and I have to say,

while it sucks to do overnight, the results are fantastic!), some kids need

DMSA, some just ALA, some both, some need every 2.5 hours, even overnight, some

can go 4 hrs overnight, some need 1/8 mg per pound, some need more. Some need

100 rounds, some need more. Some can't tolerate some supps, some can.

Some have PANDAS, some don't. Maybe some have this Lyme-esque possibly weird

mutated bacteria?

I'm open minded enough to say maybe...some have some sort of bacteria being

called 'Lyme' that is similar but truly, has not been identified yet because it

is some FUBAR'd vaccine lab atrocity.

If I didn't have an open mind, and be willing to investigate all possibilities

and hear of other's experiences, I wouldn't be here!

>

> What are the choices of people with Lyme and food sensitivities though? I

think I have researched this before and the treatment for lyme is long-term

antibiotics, am I right? It's a hard decision especially when the tests for

lyme don't seem very reliable...destroy everything with antibiotics or keep the

small amount beneficial bacteria you do have in your gut. Using the antibiotics

for a long time really scares me, I don't think it's easy to repopulate gut

bacteria, certainly it's more complicated than just taking probiotics.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> What are the choices of people with Lyme and food sensitivities though? I

think I have researched this before and the treatment for lyme is long-term

antibiotics, am I right? It's a hard decision especially when the tests for

lyme don't seem very reliable...destroy everything with antibiotics or keep the

small amount beneficial bacteria you do have in your gut. Using the antibiotics

for a long time really scares me, I don't think it's easy to repopulate gut

bacteria, certainly it's more complicated than just taking probiotics.

>

>

I should have said the smart people with lyme are all chelating. People with

food sensitivities should avoid the foods they are allergic to. People with

Lymes should chelate and treat the coinfections first before lyme. Before they

do this, they are making sure the bodies detox pathways are open. They support

the liver. They utilise treatments that make the detox as elegant and as gentle

as possible. They use positive thinking. They use supplements to move the lyme

from one place to another. They protect their brains with other supplements.

They find out where and how the lyme is hiding and remove the hiding places.

Lyme hides under a biofilm. Plus it can hide in a cyst form. Yes, for some they

choose abx and it is a real and viable therapy. But our family would not choose

that path. We are using biofilm breakers, herbs, and the rife machine, plus Andy

Cutler chelation if we can make it more elegant. We might use other paths.

The people in our family who have the CBS upregulation and the KPU zinc defect

will recieve a totally different treatment from our sensitive people who can't

tolerate supplements. Our autoimmune daughter will recieve a totally different

treatment then the others. The funny thing is they will all arrive at the same

destination. There are many roads that lead to Rome. There are many ways to

treat lyme and the coinfections without ever using antibiotics, and don't let

anyone tell you that there is no cure for lyme, just like with autism, I am

convinced that it is curable. We just have to be smarter than the bugs, it is a

chess game, thats all, if you can play chess, you can beat lyme disease. How

many chess moves are there? Well thats about how many choices there are with

lyme. People are going to have to be their own doctors, figure out which

direction is right for them, and use energy medicine such as muscle testing to

find the right path for them. If they are uncomfortable with muscle testing they

can just pray and God will guide them. It takes a little more thought and

strategy to play chess than to put together a puzzle, thats the only difference

if I was going to put it in an analogy autism vs. lyme.

Oh yes it is more complicated than just taking probiotics. I wish I could empty

my brain on you but I would have to write a book. The thriiive website has a

top ten list that everyone can do and it is awesome, it gives things to work on

while you are finding your path of which lyme treatment to do that will work

best for you. It is compatable with AC chelation.

I use a lot of intuition and muscle testing. I do a lot of research. I guess if

you have a specific question, I can answer it as best as I can from our

experience beginning to treat a whole entire family for lyme.

[Guest guest]

-Thanks, I think I shall continue discussing it then. I learned a lot at the

conference. I am still processing it all. One of the main things I learned about

was raising the bodies energetic level to a higher frequency where illness

cannot exist.

The other neat thing I found out was about the KPU genetic defect which might be

cureable through energy therapy for childhood trauma, but also can be treated

with a combination of zinc loading and chelation. I think it explains why my son

got better on Andy's protocol. Because I added zinc loading to andy's protocol

if you remember. Anyway I thought I was doing the pfeiffer protocol, but no,

the pfeiffer's don't chelate also. They just zinc load. It is the combination of

chelation and zinc loading and about six or seven other supplements that fix the

zinc defect. Curiously, i just happened to have been trying to save money and

had muscle tested to get cheap supplements off of the clearance rack as

replacements until I could afford our regular supplements, so I had muscle

tested to see if those were safe and it came out yes. So it ended up that the

same thing I was giving my son when he had his huge miraculous gains is almost

word for word dr K's KPU protocol. Can we say God was involved in that? It

explains why my son is regressing now off treatment, and it gives me clues of

what to do next for him. Find out as much as I can about the KPU treatment.

Which they say is very difficult to do on your own and that it takes a doctor.

So I am proceeding very cautiously. Starting with testing him for it, of course,

and the test is $50 for me, locally. There is much studying to do, although I

did zinc load before while on AC chelation, my son said it was grueling and hard

on him, so I will definately need to tweek the protocol, add antioxidants as

someone said, let more time go in between, just anything we can do to make this

easier.

Some of the cool things I found out about: If you muscle test just muscle test

your kid as you read over this list and see if anything resonates as something

to check out. It doesn't have to be overwhelming, www.gainsworth.com

bioenergetix medicine, zyto machine zyto.com, homeopathic lsd, concept that

" terrain is everything " , Bioscalar technology which I want in the worst way, and

didn't understand bioscalar until I saw it in person, breaking down biofilm made

of fibrin with scalar energy, hydrate your cells amazing water wand

www.magicwaterwand.com.

I found all of the cool mercury free dentists that you can't find otherwise

cause they hide out like and , well I found their hideout and

made friends so we can get our dental done. There is a dirth of mercury free

dentists in my area who are safe, believe in cavitaitons, etc. By the way, you

find out a lot more things when you go to these events in person!

Some cards I collected: www.herbalixrestoratives.com, Usana camelot

connection.usana.com, Real child center mary coyle www.realchildcenter.com, only

I listened to them and will find out what they are doing that they are charging

$2,500 for (gasp!), and it is cellular drainage only they have unda numbers that

are 14 times more beefy than unda, from marcopharma HVS labs, and they use an

EAV machide and Biosode, and I am going to totally call them and pick their

brains cause I got their phone # booyah! Homotoxicology helps with excretion.

" People who can't detox, excrete " , there is the answer for your failures and non

responders. After they open the channels they use Biocell, using a secondary

detox pathway " fixes the unfixable " , Dr. Engalls, Caprio, references to their

treatment where my naturopath can learn how to do what they are doing.

I have the cards and names of four or five dentists that can fix our teeth.

Quinton isotonics www.originalquinton.com one of the first things we will try.

OH I found a vitamin D 50,000mg that will stop blindness ie " reduces eye

inflammation " and in our case inflammation is the cause of our daughters

blindness, and old research that I need to dig up on Aurther Knapp,

who studied blindness for 40 years and treated it with vitamin D,

www.bio-tech-pharm.com. Everyone of us is going on this D, period.

NBE solutions www.nbepanama.com

Quantum Neurology for severely dyslexic kids and kids with cognitive disorders

like mine which we will start our dyslexic kids on asap, Quantum Neurology.com.

I discovered the wonderful Dr. Klinghardt and I would love nothing more than to

fly my son out to see him, and no we don't agree on everything but in a healthy

realtionship it is ok to disagree. We agree on an awful lot:)

www.klinghardtneurobiology.com.

cold laser therapy which is just about the coolest thing and again I didn't

understand it until I saw it, I am a visual learner so i just didn't get it

without being there.

Nutramedix www.nutramedix.com, which is the Cowden protocol herbs. moxxor as a

cod liver oil replacement another must try, plant stem cells, yeah!

www.bioactivenutritionals.com, zeolite, unresolved emotions accumulate toxins

and increase inflammation, feeling the energy of a supplement, fibroboost,

ecklonia kava, tocotrienol, amantilla, genetic testing, Amy Yasko, BH4 from

NaturX, creatine monohydrate as a solution for not methylating, how to do a

Cranial sacral lift, eliminating food allergies with this thing that looks like

a coaster, determining the difference between a herx and an allergic reaction by

taking the pulse, homeopathic remedies that you can make yourself for free,

Theives oil kills mersa, spray it on your house for mold, water

hydration101.com, Theived Dentarome Ultra and lozenges for my salivary stones,

name of rife machine user in my area

Garry Gordon quotable quotes: Garry poops really really good, so therefore he

thinks he's good with glutathione, I mean clearly if he's pooping and believe

me, he described it in detail so I mean his liver must be doing ok, " Do not

assume that your doctor knows everything he needs to know " , " we don't need

genetics, we need epigenetics " , " you have to fight on all five fronts " , Zeolite

stops ammonia, there should be no restriction of magnesium, altered biofilm with

zeolite, " the most simple and easiest answer is not best " {wow, because Dr.

House said it was, but I guess that's just tv}, the right form of folic helps

methylation, of course he takes fiber with his glutathione! Which, we might

try...his thing with ala every three hours and chelate with it. I mean don't we

all want to poop like that?

plant stem cells {gotta get some} they strenthen the detox, liver and lymph.

phytochemicals are compatable and work together synergistically many together

form a team, mixed together in concert they are way more powerful. They have a

really cool Hpylori remedy in a plant stem cell form. Plant stem cells have low

levels of herx and intolerence.

Notes from Dr. Klinghardt:

Step #1 Detox

Step #2 infection

Exposure to emf fields are a predicting factor in autism

turn off fuses to bedrooms at night to eliminate emfs.

On average it takes parents 3 years to hear a concept like turning off fuses at

night

Cryptopyoluria is where you pee out all your zinc. It is a zinc less person

There are 300 zinc dependant enzymes. When you pee out all of your zinc then

your absorb toxic heavy elements as your body is trying to replace the zinc

with...anything!

1st born baby boy is out of luck

Abram Hoffer and Linus ing started Orthomolecular medicine, it was why he

was standing there and he would not be there if it wasn't for them.

zinc, biotin, and B6 are all peed out with KPU

We all need zinc loading

lyme disease is congentially aquired autism

*must have mold or HPU/KPU as a precognition to get autism

Lyme is not a new illness, but an old illness behaving in new ways.

Blocked EMFS/Block fungi/block mold production

microtoxin urine test $200 is the most important test for autistic children

(after andy's hair test:)

CBS mutation is a symptom of HPU which is heme dependant

HPU should be the first lyme treatment

You can't zinc load without detox

these kids need omega 6 really really badly

Taurine helps HPU

They have a biotin deficiency, replace with 10-20 mgs daily

silica deficiency

treating HPU is Cheaper than a yeast protocol

white dots on the nails (I actually didn't get if they were good or bad)

no mag sterate or titanium doioxide

Amy Yaskos drawing

My protocol for child #1 similarities to Dr. K:

zinc 210 mg mine, zinc 250 mg his

borage oil prior to gains mine, borage oil his

p5p mine got idea from pfeiffers, p5p his

mag 200mg 4x a day or thereabouts andy, mag 200mg 4x a day his

Taurine andy, Taurine his

Vit E andy, vit E his

Dmsa andy, Dmsa his

People say to add methyl groups to de methylate dna or B12 injections and these

are both stupid

Instead, detox patient

Child should be stressed prior to HPU test. Child should be off all supplements

for five days.

When you zinc load, you should ramp up slowly

*don't make stomach acid

alkanalizing is NOT a good idea

detox pm, minerals am. He says timing of supplements is not very important. We

believe timing of supplements is very important

athon makes a special biotin w/o fillers

take fish oils after breakfast

don't take minerals and oils together, it makes soap.

separate minerals and oils

both fish oils and other oils.

P5P will not be available in two weeks because of codex so buy up

straight B6 as a replacement for p5p at walmart

back to the KPU, the kids are peeing out calcium

they need niacin for psych. symptoms?

Taurine is a must says K. cowden disagrees, says keep taurine low.

copper toxic is a myth

good vitamin C, Garry Gordon has the best vitamin C in the world now

Garlic is the holy Grail

allicin 3mg

put garlic in meals

pulse test: take resting pulse rate several times a day. The lowest pulse rate

is what you use. If pulse doesn't go up, child is not allergic. With a herx the

pulse doesn't go up. With allergies the pulse does go up.

We tested this when we got home and our daughter went outside for ten seconds.

She vomited. I took her pulse and it went up. Then I muscle tested her allergic

to grass and weeds. I put some grass and weeds on the coaster thing I bought. I

treated her with it for grass and weeds, and then she was able to go outside.

He replaces chelation with metal detox 1/2 scoop 2x a day for a child

10-15 doses a day 2-3 days in a row (sound familiar just a bit)

more elegant

Metal detox plan can be found on his website

Dmsa 100-200 mg every 2-3 hours for 2 or 3 days

IV C, in massive amounts

Chlorella, colonics, lymph drainage

microsilica

laser detox, ART energy testing

IV znDTPA in Europe

Chlorella and metal binding, yes

Homeopahtic IGF-1 muscle strength

l-Dopa .05mg

100 muucrosilia worse

then when better, Quintessece/lyme nosode/rizol zeta

he cured Rett which is considered " incurable "

Gordan's zeolite, K green clay

Bad means symptoms means crank up the detox

Phase 1-HPU protocol

Phase 2-Quintessence (a combination buhner protocol)

12 drops a day

for Babesia, artemisin 5 caps 3x a day 2 days a week for 12 rounds

This is the international treatment for malaria

Rizol gamma and Zeta 15 drops

in bathwater, enema, rub on lymph, oral

GFCF diet, SCD

gut biofilm protocol=green clay/silica

Biosil-google it

it tastes bad, rub it on the feet

d methyl glicine

20 days allina 20 days detox/ same time

Valkion

Health light

Homeopathic laser detox (the zyto people have this)

Immudomodulation KH6

L-Dopa

Go to website for the K H-6 method. It is an antidote for Bartonella with

directions for how to make a homeopathic remedy out of spit. 4 drops 6 times a

day. It is the #1 thing to do.

I have five more pages of notes, not even including the power points, not even

including the speeches I missed. But my hands can't type anymore.

-- In , RoseGvr@... wrote:

>

> ,

>

> You do not need Andy's approval if you believe your child has Lyme and you

> need to treat it.

>

> Also, you may discuss it all you like (as far as I know). Andy seemed to

> indicate that he is done discussing it but you don't have to be.

>

> After you treat, maybe you can post about your experience, if it helped

> and if the nail ridges disappeared.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Rosegvr/

>

>

>

>

> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy

> steps!

>

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585087x1201462804/aol?redir=http://\

www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=

> JulystepsfooterNO62)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, that is so kind of you to share your notes. I am going to be reading

this better tomorrow night.

Thank you so much!

> >

> > ,

> >

> > You do not need Andy's approval if you believe your child has Lyme and you

> > need to treat it.

> >

> > Also, you may discuss it all you like (as far as I know). Andy seemed to

> > indicate that he is done discussing it but you don't have to be.

> >

> > After you treat, maybe you can post about your experience, if it helped

> > and if the nail ridges disappeared.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Rosegvr/

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy

> > steps!

> >

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585087x1201462804/aol?redir=http://\

www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=

> > JulystepsfooterNO62)

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>>>>>> The other neat thing I found out was about the KPU genetic defect which

might be cureable through energy therapy for childhood trauma,>>>>>>

It is caused by mercury poisoning.

>>>>> They just zinc load.>>>>>>

This is just supressing symptoms without removing the root cause(mercury)

>>>>> Which they say is very difficult to do on your own and that it takes a

doctor.>>>>>>>

No it isn't difficult and you do not need a doctor.

>>>>> I discovered the wonderful Dr. Klinghardt and I would love nothing more

than to fly my son out to see him>>>>>>

Plesase don't do this. He is very expensive but he isn't a real doctor. He is a

MD but he isn't practicing real medicine anymore.

His therapies are ineffctive and have made many people horribly permanently

worse.

>>>>>> Chlorella and metal binding, yes >>>>>

Never use this. It can make people horribly worse.

[Guest guest]

I really appreciate you sharing your notes as well. It reminds me of how I

slowly came to accept that NAET was a real therapy. My NT DS had been diagnosed

with a peanut allergy. Simply touching a peanut would cause his skin to swell

and itch. The epi pen was our constant companion. After a long series of

treatments for numerous other allergans the NAET practitioner began to address

his peanut allergy. NAET cleared his peanute allergy to the point that he could

hold a peanut in his mouth. So here I am again. But this time, I won't be so

stubborn. : )

How does the coaster you mentioned compare to NAET? I'm unfamiliar with it.

Thanks in advance!

>

> , that is so kind of you to share your notes. I am going to be reading

this better tomorrow night.

>

> Thank you so much!

[Guest guest]

Wow, really. My son has peanut allergy and chocolate. I've been contemplating

trying NAET also. Good to know.

> >

> > , that is so kind of you to share your notes. I am going to be

reading this better tomorrow night.

> >

> > Thank you so much!

>