Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 We used Methyl-B12 sub-q injections on my boy for a year or so. There was slight or no benefit. But, when a child has absorption issues in the small intestine, it is known to help considerably. The ALA we like is from Kirkmans: (http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/) We mix it into a small amount of pear juice usign a mortar and pestle (about $12 at bed bath and beyond), and squirt it into the mouth with a syringe (free from Target Pharmacy). --penumbra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Good for you Carolyn! We just did an OAT test for our son and it was interesting, not particularly helpful, but interesting. Was it interesting enough to pay $200+? No. I won't do it again. We did find out he still has yeast. Cool! so we treat it right? Absolutely, with what? OoO and probiotics. And what were we doing before OAT test? treating yeast with probiotics and OoO. My recommendation? Increase yeast protocol till you don't get a lot of reaction and seem to have yeast behaviors under reasonable control then chelate while adjusting yeast protocol accordingly. The OAT test might be able to tell you the status of yeast at the time sample was taken but I am not sure what good that is to me two weeks later. DMSA- VRP.com ALA-Kirkman Tressie > > Well, based on our dmsa provoked results, our DAN does not want us to > chelate. Test shows no elevated level. We, of course, still want to > chelate based on what we have read here and in Andy's book. DAN says > not worth it based on results there is no need. (We did not mention AC > protocol - this time) > > He wants us to do an OAT test to check oxalate levels, arabinose, etc. > We think this is a good idea before WE chelate using AC protocol of > dmsa/ ala. > > He would like us to try injections of MB 12 - which we may try AFTER > we see what AC protocol does for our son. We are thinking of 10 rounds > or so to see what happens. > > Is there a certain brand of ALA to get? What about DMSA? My son is GF > CF Soy free. > > Thanks for any thoughts/info/suggestions. > > Carolyn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Carolyn, We're in the same situation. My son's porphyrin test did not warrant chelation according to our DAN!. I still want to pursue it because of his difficulty getting rid of yeast and several metabolic bridges needing to be ammended by nutritional supplementation. I just want to get it right the first time to reduce his incidences of suffering. Here's some information regarding chelators. DMSA, ALA, glutathione are extracellular chelators. OSR is an intracellular chelator. I've been advised that you want to chelate the extracellular space of the body first. Chelate intracellular spaces after that. I need to learn more about duration of treatments. When and at what levels do we know to switch from extracellular spaces to intracellular? What tests, which labs are most appropriate for this task. I'm looking forward learning more. Theodora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 My son was a very stong MB12 shot responder and it was one of the first biomed interventions that we did. I am really glad that we did it. Can't comment on the others.... On 7/30/09, jeffnteddi <hopefulchild99-asd@...> wrote: > Carolyn, > We're in the same situation. My son's porphyrin test did not warrant > chelation according to our DAN!. I still want to pursue it because of his > difficulty getting rid of yeast and several metabolic bridges needing to be > ammended by nutritional supplementation. > > I just want to get it right the first time to reduce his incidences of > suffering. > > Here's some information regarding chelators. > > DMSA, ALA, glutathione are extracellular chelators. > OSR is an intracellular chelator. > > I've been advised that you want to chelate the extracellular space of the > body first. > Chelate intracellular spaces after that. > > I need to learn more about duration of treatments. When and at what levels > do we know to switch from extracellular spaces to intracellular? What > tests, which labs are most appropriate for this task. > > I'm looking forward learning more. > Theodora > > > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hi Carolyn, Comments interspersed. S S DAN not on board Posted by: " C in San Diego " mamatutu@... octbaby1999 Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:38 pm (PDT) Well, based on our dmsa provoked results, our DAN does not want us to chelate. Test shows no elevated level. We, of course, still want to chelate based on what we have read here and in Andy's book. DAN says not worth it based on results there is no need. (We did not mention AC protocol - this time) *Glad you educated yourself and plan to go ahead with a trial. Make sure you have a yeast protocol in place or on standby. He wants us to do an OAT test to check oxalate levels, arabinose, etc. We think this is a good idea before WE chelate using AC protocol of dmsa/ ala. He would like us to try injections of MB 12 - which we may try AFTER we see what AC protocol does for our son. We are thinking of 10 rounds or so to see what happens. Is there a certain brand of ALA to get? What about DMSA? My son is GF CF Soy free. *I get my ALA at WFM (watch the dose, they unfortunately sell some extremely high dose) and order my DMSA from www.vrp.com . Thanks for any thoughts/info/suggestions. *Many of us chelate without a doc. Carolyn ------------------------------------------------------------ Credit Counseling Services Click here for help eliminating your debt. http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1gvTQVQUkXRpTKkVudPTcwxSpa3bS8cBUQdcBvu6Ders6r\ lKOP0hgs/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 You can always chelate on your own with ALA. Pam > > Well, based on our dmsa provoked results, our DAN does not want us to > chelate. Test shows no elevated level. We, of course, still want to > chelate based on what we have read here and in Andy's book. DAN says > not worth it based on results there is no need. (We did not mention AC > protocol - this time) > > He wants us to do an OAT test to check oxalate levels, arabinose, etc. > We think this is a good idea before WE chelate using AC protocol of > dmsa/ ala. > > He would like us to try injections of MB 12 - which we may try AFTER > we see what AC protocol does for our son. We are thinking of 10 rounds > or so to see what happens. > > Is there a certain brand of ALA to get? What about DMSA? My son is GF > CF Soy free. > > Thanks for any thoughts/info/suggestions. > > Carolyn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Ooops. guess you are. > > > > Well, based on our dmsa provoked results, our DAN does not want us to > > chelate. Test shows no elevated level. We, of course, still want to > > chelate based on what we have read here and in Andy's book. DAN says > > not worth it based on results there is no need. (We did not mention AC > > protocol - this time) > > > > He wants us to do an OAT test to check oxalate levels, arabinose, etc. > > We think this is a good idea before WE chelate using AC protocol of > > dmsa/ ala. > > > > He would like us to try injections of MB 12 - which we may try AFTER > > we see what AC protocol does for our son. We are thinking of 10 rounds > > or so to see what happens. > > > > Is there a certain brand of ALA to get? What about DMSA? My son is GF > > CF Soy free. > > > > Thanks for any thoughts/info/suggestions. > > > > Carolyn > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Here's some information regarding chelators. DMSA, ALA, glutathione are extracellular chelators. OSR is an intracellular chelator. ===>This is incorrect. Ala is both an extra and intracelllular chelator. We don't know what OSR is. I've been advised that you want to chelate the extracellular space of the body first. Chelate intracellular spaces after that. I need to learn more about duration of treatments. When and at what levels do we know to switch from extracellular spaces to intracellular? What tests, which labs are most appropriate for this task. I'm looking forward learning more. Theodora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I actually think your DAN has a plan. If I were you, I won't try to chelate without my doc on board... unless you have trust issue with this DAN. if that is the case, find another doc. > > Well, based on our dmsa provoked results, our DAN does not want us to > chelate. Test shows no elevated level. We, of course, still want to > chelate based on what we have read here and in Andy's book. DAN says > not worth it based on results there is no need. (We did not mention AC > protocol - this time) > > He wants us to do an OAT test to check oxalate levels, arabinose, etc. > We think this is a good idea before WE chelate using AC protocol of > dmsa/ ala. > > He would like us to try injections of MB 12 - which we may try AFTER > we see what AC protocol does for our son. We are thinking of 10 rounds > or so to see what happens. > > Is there a certain brand of ALA to get? What about DMSA? My son is GF > CF Soy free. > > Thanks for any thoughts/info/suggestions. > > Carolyn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 If you ask me,any DAN! doctor who will not chelate is to be applauded.Far too many parents jump to the conclusion,it is mercury,and only mercury that is causing the problems.Perhaps they know more than you do. Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â From: mao_xiong <mao_xiong@...> Subject: [ ] Re: DAN not on board Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 11:00 AM Â I actually think your DAN has a plan. If I were you, I won't try to chelate without my doc on board... unless you have trust issue with this DAN. if that is the case, find another doc. > > Well, based on our dmsa provoked results, our DAN does not want us to > chelate. Test shows no elevated level. We, of course, still want to > chelate based on what we have read here and in Andy's book. DAN says > not worth it based on results there is no need. (We did not mention AC > protocol - this time) > > He wants us to do an OAT test to check oxalate levels, arabinose, etc. > We think this is a good idea before WE chelate using AC protocol of > dmsa/ ala. > > He would like us to try injections of MB 12 - which we may try AFTER > we see what AC protocol does for our son. We are thinking of 10 rounds > or so to see what happens. > > Is there a certain brand of ALA to get? What about DMSA? My son is GF > CF Soy free. > > Thanks for any thoughts/info/ suggestions. > > Carolyn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 No more challenge tests. They cause huge redistributions. And not very useful. There are many posts you can search on this topic. You don't need this doctor.... There are others who will help or you can do it alone. dmsa and ala are gf/cf as far as I know and obtainable over the counter. Trying a few low dose rounds will let you know if this treatment is going to benefit him. Sometimes the challenge tests don't show mercury..because no ala was given and the mercury is in the brain. Was a hair test done? This is the safe way to look for metals. Sure its nice to have a doctor...but we don't, and many people don't. If I waited to find one to agree with me and not ignore my son's incredibly toxic hair test...we would still be spinning our heals in the dirt..instead of having a 6 year old with no dx. If you feel this guy isn't hearing you...move on. > > > > > > Well, based on our dmsa provoked results, our DAN does not want us to > > chelate. Test shows no elevated level. We, of course, still want to > > chelate based on what we have read here and in Andy's book. DAN says > > not worth it based on results there is no need. (We did not mention AC > > protocol - this time) > > > > He wants us to do an OAT test to check oxalate levels, arabinose, etc. > > We think this is a good idea before WE chelate using AC protocol of > > dmsa/ ala. > > > > He would like us to try injections of MB 12 - which we may try AFTER > > we see what AC protocol does for our son. We are thinking of 10 rounds > > or so to see what happens. > > > > Is there a certain brand of ALA to get? What about DMSA? My son is GF > > CF Soy free. > > > > Thanks for any thoughts/info/suggestions. > > > > Carolyn > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Or perhaps they don't. Since they are not trained in metal toxicity or chelation. What makes them a DAN? A few seminars, that's all. Just like doctors know very little about nutrition...they only know what they study. The argument can go on forever over a DAN or not a DAN or what not. Better to get a hair test for the child to verify metals before doing chelation. Those that are non believers in mercury, can skip chelation and do other therapies. > > > > > > Well, based on our dmsa provoked results, our DAN does not want us to > > > chelate. Test shows no elevated level. We, of course, still want to > > > chelate based on what we have read here and in Andy's book. DAN says > > > not worth it based on results there is no need. (We did not mention AC > > > protocol - this time) > > > > > > He wants us to do an OAT test to check oxalate levels, arabinose, etc. > > > We think this is a good idea before WE chelate using AC protocol of > > > dmsa/ ala. > > > > > > He would like us to try injections of MB 12 - which we may try AFTER > > > we see what AC protocol does for our son. We are thinking of 10 rounds > > > or so to see what happens. > > > > > > Is there a certain brand of ALA to get? What about DMSA? My son is GF > > > CF Soy free. > > > > > > Thanks for any thoughts/info/ suggestions. > > > > > > Carolyn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Our challenge test didn't show ANY elevated metals - which is why I am still questioning myself...to chelate or not! I posted here because I did want to hear all views - so thank you to all for the encouragement to chelate w/o a DAN and the warnings not to chelate ... still reading / thinking / listening... Carolyn On Jul 30, 2009, at 1:58 PM, Jan wrote: > No more challenge tests. They cause huge redistributions. And not > very useful. There are many posts you can search on this topic. > You don't need this doctor.... > There are others who will help or you can do it alone. > dmsa and ala are gf/cf as far as I know and obtainable over the > counter. Trying a few low dose rounds will let you know if this > treatment is going to benefit him. Sometimes the challenge tests > don't show mercury..because no ala was given and the mercury is in > the brain. Was a hair test done? This is the safe way to look for > metals. > > Sure its nice to have a doctor...but we don't, and many people > don't. If I waited to find one to agree with me and not ignore my > son's incredibly toxic hair test...we would still be spinning our > heals in the dirt..instead of having a 6 year old with no dx. > If you feel this guy isn't hearing you...move on. > >> >> >>> >>> Well, based on our dmsa provoked results, our DAN does not want us >>> to >>> chelate. Test shows no elevated level. We, of course, still want to >>> chelate based on what we have read here and in Andy's book. DAN says >>> not worth it based on results there is no need. (We did not >>> mention AC >>> protocol - this time) >>> >>> He wants us to do an OAT test to check oxalate levels, arabinose, >>> etc. >>> We think this is a good idea before WE chelate using AC protocol of >>> dmsa/ ala. >>> >>> He would like us to try injections of MB 12 - which we may try AFTER >>> we see what AC protocol does for our son. We are thinking of 10 >>> rounds >>> or so to see what happens. >>> >>> Is there a certain brand of ALA to get? What about DMSA? My son is >>> GF >>> CF Soy free. >>> >>> Thanks for any thoughts/info/suggestions. >>> >>> Carolyn >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Can you please tell me exactly what hair test to do and from where. Carolyn On Jul 30, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Jan wrote: > Or perhaps they don't. Since they are not trained in metal toxicity > or chelation. What makes them a DAN? A few seminars, that's all. > Just like doctors know very little about nutrition...they only know > what they study. > > The argument can go on forever over a DAN or not a DAN or what not. > > Better to get a hair test for the child to verify metals before > doing chelation. > > Those that are non believers in mercury, can skip chelation and do > other therapies. > > > > >> >>> >> >>> Well, based on our dmsa provoked results, our DAN does not want us >>> to >> >>> chelate. Test shows no elevated level. We, of course, still want to >> >>> chelate based on what we have read here and in Andy's book. DAN says >> >>> not worth it based on results there is no need. (We did not >>> mention AC >> >>> protocol - this time) >> >>> >> >>> He wants us to do an OAT test to check oxalate levels, arabinose, >>> etc. >> >>> We think this is a good idea before WE chelate using AC protocol of >> >>> dmsa/ ala. >> >>> >> >>> He would like us to try injections of MB 12 - which we may try AFTER >> >>> we see what AC protocol does for our son. We are thinking of 10 >>> rounds >> >>> or so to see what happens. >> >>> >> >>> Is there a certain brand of ALA to get? What about DMSA? My son is >>> GF >> >>> CF Soy free. >> >>> >> >>> Thanks for any thoughts/info/ suggestions. >> >>> >> >>> Carolyn >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I, personally, wouldn't trust a DAN who does chelation challenges to know what he's doing. S S Re: DAN not on board Posted by: " Kulp " thorenstd124@... thorenstd124 Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:19 am (PDT) If you ask me,any DAN! doctor who will not chelate is to be applauded.Far too many parents jump to the conclusion,it is mercury,and only mercury that is causing the problems.Perhaps they know more than you do. From: mao_xiong <mao_xiong@...> Subject: [ ] Re: DAN not on board Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 11:00 AM I actually think your DAN has a plan. If I were you, I won't try to chelate without my doc on board... unless you have trust issue with this DAN. if that is the case, find another doc. ------------------------------------------------------------ Weight Loss Program Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1gv0RQFBlBCW0C7MCJQqKBvhKLItsnC33WRmba47axryQ9\ fzecShsk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hi carolyn, Have you done a DDI hair elements test and applied counting rules? What did it show? What exposure has your child had? Vaccines (you while pregnant or the child), mercury amalgam dental filings (you or the child), consumption of fish, seafood? Live near coal-fired power plant, current or former orchard, golf course, cotton field, etc? S S Re: DAN not on board Posted by: " C in San Diego " mamatutu@... octbaby1999 Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:22 pm (PDT) Our challenge test didn't show ANY elevated metals - which is why I am still questioning myself...to chelate or not! I posted here because I did want to hear all views - so thank you to all for the encouragement to chelate w/o a DAN and the warnings not to chelate ... still reading / thinking / listening... Carolyn ------------------------------------------------------------ Weight Loss Program Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1gv0RR7OwJB2SGKuhLWvuHI0OlWxtrSeP4iAm7S9FSVfnm\ zcWcXXHq/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 You want the DDI (Doctors Data, Inc) hair elements test which you can order without a doc through DLS (Direct Lab Services). If you mention this groups they'll give you a discount. They send you a kit with instructions. S S Re: DAN not on board Posted by: " C in San Diego " mamatutu@... octbaby1999 Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:25 pm (PDT) Can you please tell me exactly what hair test to do and from where. Carolyn ------------------------------------------------------------ Bamboo Flooring The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo flooring! http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1gz4wv5Wfhho9XuRV407pQGelXAyROqaJlFd93Re0AweoV\ TuD4dB0s/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hair Elements Tressie > > > You want the DDI (Doctors Data, Inc) hair elements test which you > > can order without a doc through DLS (Direct Lab Services). If you > > mention this groups they'll give you a discount. They send you a > > kit with instructions. > > S S > > > > Re: DAN not on board > > Posted by: " C in San Diego " mamatutu@... octbaby1999 > > Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:25 pm (PDT) > > > > > > > > Can you please tell me exactly what hair test to do and from where. > > > > Carolyn > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Bamboo Flooring > > The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo flooring! > > http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1gz4wv5Wfhho9XuRV407pQGelXAyROqaJlFd93Re0AweoV\ TuD4dB0s/ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 How long does it usually take to get the results back if you're doing this test through DLS? Thank you > > You want the DDI (Doctors Data, Inc) hair elements test which you can order without a doc through DLS (Direct Lab Services). If you mention this groups they'll give you a discount. They send you a kit with instructions. > S S > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Hair Elements. It shows both toxic and essential which are needed for counting rules. If it does not meet counting rules and toxic metals are all in the green then metals may not be the issue. S S Re: DAN not on board Posted by: " C in San Diego " mamatutu@... octbaby1999 Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:08 pm (PDT) Please specify: Hair Elements OR Hair Toxic Element Exposure Thanks. Carolyn ------------------------------------------------------------ Health Insurance Click for an affordable Health Insurance plan that fits your needs. http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1gyzz8A7CkN1AcqWvsJVOy6y4ZhPG4ejuLIH0scQ8ZmCIu\ fxt6TwIo/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I mailed mine in on July 14th. They mailed the results on July 27th, I should receive them today or tomorrow. They used to send the results by e-mail for those who gave them permission to do so but now you have to sign on to their site to view the results there. S S Re: DAN not on board Posted by: " lenakhais " lenakhais@... lenakhais Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:05 pm (PDT) How long does it usually take to get the results back if you're doing this test through DLS? Thank you ------------------------------------------------------------ Medical Insurance Click to find great rates on medical insurance, save big, shop here. http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1gyy5ID7lIII3Y3Z4Ka8T8RD0k5p9yXw1tAmqlq23TyG0R\ TsAgfDKA/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Reposting this portion, as it may have been missed. Carolyn On Jul 30, 2009, at 6:03 PM, C in San Diego wrote: > I will look into hair test. Will this be an accurate result of > metals..meaning if it doesn't show metals with counting rules applied, > then no need to chelate?? > > Thanks. > > Carolyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 The hair test can have different implications depending on results, it would be hard to give a blanket statement. No metals no mineral derangement all ranges in normal all ratios normal. generally assume no metal toxicity. I don't imagine this scenario to apply to very many of our kids. My son has been a bit of a conundrum when it comes to many of the standard tests and histories. His tests are sometimes negative (hair test did not meat counting rules and no merc, however, porphyrins test showed merc) hair test did show lead which did not show on other testing. He's never vaxed no antibiotics no regression. No real clinical reason for anyone protocol. All his info when gathered together did put him in a marginal range. How a doc approaches this is generally not to do anything unless it is particularly warranted. As a parent though I can simply try a protocol as long as it is safe and you know what you are looking for then just do it take a note of results if it helps keep going if it doesn't move on. Almost every protocol we have tried has brought an amount of positive results. The only time I have every regretted what we did is when I listened to someone else rather than going with what I observed. Read the books recommended by the people here, educate yourself, then use doc only as needed. Essential books on our shelf (often on the table or nightstand) ***Hair test interpretations ***Amalgam Illness **Children with starving brains *Biological treatments for Autism Tressie > > > I will look into hair test. Will this be an accurate result of > > metals..meaning if it doesn't show metals with counting rules applied, > > then no need to chelate?? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Carolyn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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