Guest guest Posted September 22, 2000 Report Share Posted September 22, 2000 Hi, , If you find an affordable doc here in NM that is worth going to, please let me know. I have not got the courage to go looking for one, myself. I am also extremely sensistive to many meds(and supplements, sometimes ) The course of my illmess has been similar to yours. Adrienne G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2000 Report Share Posted September 22, 2000 In a message dated 9/22/00 11:13:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time, KenL@... writes: > A good explanation of the herxheimer reaction is this: Wow! I had been meaning to ask. How fascinatingly devious of those bugs to train me to be sick so they can be happy and healthy! AARRRgh! Adrienne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2000 Report Share Posted September 22, 2000 , Others may be able to elaborate further but " Herxheimer (more precisely known as the Jarish-Herxheimer) reaction is due to rapid death of organisms releasing internal contents that stimulates a hypersensitivity response " . In other words, you take antibiotics or whey-protein product or other anti (bacterial, viral, parasitic) agent and your body has a negative response as toxins or other agents are released in your body. When you get this reaction you know what your taking is working and often this reaction, if severe, tells you it may be appropriate (consult physician) to lower dose. Steve Bullock Herxheimer reaction > > Hi all, > > I've been reading your posts for a month or so, but haven't introduced myself. I'm . Had a severe bout of " unknown illness " 1969-72 from which I recovered. Became ill again suddenly in 1987; haven't had a normal day since. Did the crash-and-push cycle, managing to remain at work till last December. Since a bad flu in '98 and a tooth abscess in '99, I went totally down the tubes and am now pretty much homebound. Stayed away from doctors (I was a medical transcriptionist when I got sick in '87, and saw so many " fatigue and malaise, etiology unknown, Rx Prozac " ), Used alternative treatments with which held things in check, but no improvement, and got a little worse with each relapse. > > I'm so glad to be on this list (except, whew, keeping up with the posts!!!), and on CFS Research. I'm trying to find a doctor to work with and get the RIGHT tests and try some treatments. I'm taking ImmunePro now. > > QUESTION: What is the Herxheimer reaction and " herxing " that you talk about? What does it have to do with taking antibiotics? Does it happen with other drugs? I'm very sensitive to Rx drugs and just about can't take any. > > Thanks!~ > > > > Here's my question > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2000 Report Share Posted September 22, 2000 A good explanation of the herxheimer reaction is this: The bacteria/viral infection in your body prefers a low (but not no) oxygen environment and has adapted to produce toxins that helps it condition the body to keep oxygen level low. Two known mechanisms are: * vascioconstructive (tighten blood vessels) - happens with Rickettsia infection (per. C. Jadin, MD) * activates coagulation (thickens blood) - many virus and bacteria (per D. Berg, Hemex Labs) When you do SOMETHING that results in the bacteria being killed, then the bacteria is no longer able to SLOWLY release the stored toxins - instead in its death, all of the toxins are released. Many of these toxins are histamines (so antihistamines reduces their apparent effect). What kills the bacteria may be your immune system (perhaps made healthier by Whey/Imunepro), the dissolving of fibrin deposit between your immune system (or antibiotics) and the source of the infection (dissolving can happen with bromelain and other anticoagulants), or by antibiotics (both prescription and herbial etc). The apparent result is that you get sicker (because you were sick from LOW level of toxin release, and when you kill off some of the bacteria, the prior LOW level remains (from those not killed) AND you get a massive dose from those that just died..... so you have a LOT MORE TOXINS RELEASED). Thus getting sick is a good prognostic sign (something is working) -- it is just a hard reality to realize that you may have weeks OR months of being sicker before the tide turns with the bacteria... remember that most antibiotic capsules are 300 mg/day ... of which perhaps only 10% gets used killing bacteria... so you may only eliminate 30 mg of bacteria per day and many people weight 70 kg... after 100 days (3 months), you may have killed 30 x 100 = 3000 mg or a total of THREE GRAMS of bacteria.... if the infection has spread thru many decades, the amount of infection may be huge - but since the bacteria only release the toxins WHEN NEEDED to keep the oxygen low....the amount of infection and the sympotms do not linearly increase... This is how I " understand " herxing... hope it helps... also see http://www.folkarts.com/idef/herxheimer.htm M Lassesen, M.S. ex " Dr.Gui (MSDN) " , " Dr. VB " cv: http://www.folkarts.com/kenl/ KenL@... Phone: 360 297.4717 Cell: 360 509.8970 Fax 520 832.6836 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bond QUESTION: What is the Herxheimer reaction and " herxing " that you talk about? What does it have to do with taking antibiotics? Does it happen with other drugs? I'm very sensitive to Rx drugs and just about can't take any. Thanks!~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2000 Report Share Posted September 23, 2000 They are just " farming " us - like we do forest and oceans... it is one of many " balances " in nature M Lassesen, M.S. ex " Dr.Gui (MSDN) " , " Dr. VB " cv: http://www.folkarts.com/kenl/ KenL@... Phone: 360 297.4717 Cell: 360 509.8970 Fax 520 832.6836 ----- Original Message ----- From: duckblossm@...Folkarts writes Wow! I had been meaning to ask. How fascinatingly devious of those bugs to train me to be sick so they can be happy and healthy! AARRRgh! Adrienne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 The Herxheimer ReactionIs it ever good to feel bad? In some cases, yes. When you start a new treatment for an illness, your symptoms might increase at first, leaving you wondering if you're really getting healthier at all. This is called a Herxheimer reaction. This is the "die-off" effect that many people experience when they dramatically improve their diet and lifestyles. It is an allergic response to the toxic by-products produced when the body's pH is changed for the better. When this happens, large numbers of dangerous bacteria and yeast organisms die and leave the body. During this period, you won't feel very well, but in reality, you are responding positively to treatment. After this initial detoxification period, you should see significant improvement of your symptoms. Feel free to call! Free PC-to-PC calls. Low rates on PC-to-Phone. Get Messenger with Voice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Can LDN cause herxheimer reactions? Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Not exactly, but kind of. The LDN can help your body mobilize its immune system to kill off bacteria, viruses, etc. and when this happens, you can have a herx reaction. That happened to me in the form of arthritis flare ups after about 6 weeks on LDN. Judy .. Herxheimer reaction Posted by: " salc2414 " anneuings@... salc2414 Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:49 am (PST) Can LDN cause herxheimer reactions? Anne .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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