Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 My wife took LDN along with Temadol for her metastatic malignant melanoma and she experienced a rapid regression of her widespread tumor. It is difficult to say how much of the regression was due to the chemo and/or LDN. However, we know that Temadol rarely results in total regression for MM and she tolerated the chemo much better than in the first round (carboplatin + Taxol). I am pretty sure she did not experience any adverse effect from using both together and that there was probably a synergy involved. By the way when reading Dr. Bihari's experience with cancer patients he is talking about a 60% response ratio (patients who either experience stable disease or regression ) out of 450 patients in total. Later on it is mentioned that of the respondents only approximately 80 patients are on LDN alone; that means you can attribute the benefit totally to LDN. That means many LDN -responding patients are also on chemo (in fact there are some individual cases mentioned as such). So I wonder does anyone know where the statement "don't use LDN with chemo" comes from (it is also mentioned in the list of drugs not to be used with LDN)? The immune surpressing vs. immune boosting argument is not very convincing to me, especially considering Dr. Bihari's clinical experience suggesting otherwise. My best, Okan From: mtlcute <mtlcute@...>Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Update new userlow dose naltrexone Date: Monday, 19 January, 2009, 7:01 PM Hello;'I have begun Ldn the past 3 nights with no problem. I have scleroderma and my lungs have inflammation. It is for this reason alone that tomorrow I have my second round of Chemotherapy. It is IV induced 1200mg of cytoxan( canadian version is cyclophoasamide. ) I have a 6 month protocol.My question to the group is.....Has anyone else taken chemo with LDN? I know its not probably the most ideal situation but I learned about LDN a week after my first treatment, and I should continue the chemo for my lungs.According to my Rheumatologist.Any concrete users of both chemo and LDN users I would like to hear from.Many thanks,Marla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Dr. Bihari feels that in MS we have an already suppressed Immune System, low endorphins. Endorphins are what regulates the immune system and when endporphins are low, diseases occur. Dr. Bihari uses LDN to enhance/upregulate/modulate upward the immune system towards normal so it can do what it was meant to do, fight disease. The National MS Society(NMSS) scientists believe MS people suffer from an over-active immune system and they feel they must suppress our immune systems to slow down disease progression. This is their reason to use the interferons and chemos...to down regulate an over-active immune system/suppress the immune system/to modulate the immune system downward. Dr. Bihari's theory using LDN is halting disease progression in I'd say about 75% to 80% or more in ALL forms of MS and some even get symptom improvement along the way. Not all will get symptom improvement. NMSS theory using interferons, chemo's and steroids is doing very little, maybe helping one to have fewer exacerbations or worsening and maybe not. Only about 33% success rate for interferons possibly slowing MS disease down, Interferons cannot halt disease progression like LDN can. http://tinyurl.com/9lajnm Art --- > > My wife took LDN along with Temadol for her metastatic malignant melanoma and she experienced a rapid regression of her widespread tumor. It is difficult to say how much of the regression was due to the chemo and/or LDN. >  > However, we know that Temadol rarely results in total regression for MM and she tolerated the chemo much better than in the first round (carboplatin + Taxol). I am pretty sure she did not experience any adverse effect from using both together and that there was probably a synergy involved. >  > By the way when reading Dr. Bihari's experience with cancer patients he is talking about a 60% response ratio (patients who either experience stable disease or regression ) out of 450 patients in total. Later on it is mentioned that of the respondents only approximately 80 patients are on LDN alone; that means you can attribute the benefit totally to LDN. >  > That means many LDN -responding patients are also on chemo (in fact there are some individual cases mentioned as such). So I wonder does anyone know where the statement " don't use LDN with chemo " comes from (it is also mentioned in the list of drugs not to be used with LDN)? The immune surpressing vs. immune boosting argument is not very convincing to me, especially considering Dr. Bihari's clinical experience suggesting otherwise. >  > My best, >  > Okan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 I understand your point. However, when you start LDN for cancer, but your tumor burden keeps on growing (because either of the agressiveness of the cancer or LDN needs time to work) you obviously have to do something about it. If the cancer is widespread the only other choice seems to be chemo. That is the situation where you have to decide whether to keep on taking the LDN as well or not. Despite the theoretical controversy (upregulating/boosting vs. surpressing) our decision to take both together turned out to be beneficial and I've heard of others with a similar experience. I've made an extensive search into the area and although there are statements of Dr. Bihari such as the one you mentioned, namely that LDN has sort of an opposite effect on the immune system as compared to chemo or interferons, there is no explicit information that he preferred his cancer patients to stop their chemo before taking LDN or postponed giving LDN if they were having chemo. Does anyone know Dr. Bihari's position on this? It is clear that he had many responding patients on LDN alone as well as on LDN + chemo. If immune surpressing and immune modulating would cancel each other out, then normally one would expect that the majority of the LDN+chemo population should not be doing well, but I cannot find such information on the official website. This is clearly not 1-1 = 0. Okan From: Art Hansen <rtee54@...>Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Update new userlow dose naltrexone Date: Monday, 19 January, 2009, 9:44 PM Dr. Bihari feels that in MS we have an already suppressed Immune System, low endorphins. Endorphins are what regulates the immune system and when endporphins are low, diseases occur. Dr. Bihari uses LDN to enhance/upregulate/ modulate upward the immune system towards normal so it can do what it was meant to do, fight disease.The National MS Society(NMSS) scientists believe MS people suffer from an over-active immune system and they feel they must suppress our immune systems to slow down disease progression.This is their reason to use the interferons and chemos...to down regulate an over-active immune system/suppress the immune system/to modulate the immune system downward.Dr. Bihari's theory using LDN is halting disease progression in I'd say about 75% to 80% or more in ALL forms of MS and some even get symptom improvement along the way. Not all will get symptom improvement.NMSS theory using interferons, chemo's and steroids is doing very little, maybe helping one to have fewer exacerbations or worsening and maybe not. Only about 33% success rate for interferons possibly slowing MS disease down, Interferons cannot halt disease progression like LDN can.http://tinyurl. com/9lajnmArt--->> My wife took LDN along with Temadol for her metastatic malignant melanoma and she experienced a rapid regression of her widespread tumor. It is difficult to say how much of the regression was due to the chemo and/or LDN.>  > However, we know that Temadol rarely results in total regression for MM and she tolerated the chemo much better than in the first round (carboplatin + Taxol). I am pretty sure she did not experience any adverse effect from using both together and that there was probably a synergy involved.>  > By the way when reading Dr. Bihari's experience with cancer patients he is talking about a 60% response ratio (patients who either experience stable disease or regression ) out of 450 patients in total. Later on it is mentioned that of the respondents only approximately 80 patients are on LDN alone; that means you can attribute the benefit totally to LDN.>  > That means many LDN -responding patients are also on chemo (in fact there are some individual cases mentioned as such). So I wonder does anyone know where the statement "don't use LDN with chemo" comes from (it is also mentioned in the list of drugs not to be used with LDN)? The immune surpressing vs. immune boosting argument is not very convincing to me, especially considering Dr. Bihari's clinical experience suggesting otherwise.>  > My best,>  > Okan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Two discussion groups that specialize in LDN and Cancer: ldnforcancer/ LDN_4_cancer/ Art --- > > > > My wife took LDN along with Temadol for her metastatic malignant > melanoma and she experienced a rapid regression of her widespread > tumor. It is difficult to say how much of the regression was due to > the chemo and/or LDN. > >  > > However, we know that Temadol rarely results in total regression > for MM and she tolerated the chemo much better than in the first > round (carboplatin + Taxol). I am pretty sure she did not > experience any adverse effect from using both together and that > there was probably a synergy involved. > >  > > By the way when reading Dr. Bihari's experience with cancer > patients he is talking about a 60% response ratio (patients who > either experience stable disease or regression ) out of 450 patients > in total. Later on it is mentioned that of the respondents only > approximately 80 patients are on LDN alone; that means you can > attribute the benefit totally to LDN. > >  > > That means many LDN -responding patients are also on chemo (in fact > there are some individual cases mentioned as such). So I wonder > does anyone know where the statement " don't use LDN with chemo " comes > from (it is also mentioned in the list of drugs not to be used with > LDN)? The immune surpressing vs. immune boosting argument is not very > convincing to me, especially considering Dr. Bihari's clinical > experience suggesting otherwise. > >  > > My best, > >  > > Okan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Thank you Okan and Thank you Art for your uplifting contributions!!! Tonight is LDN and tomorrow is Cytoxan!! Marla:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Good health is taken for granted and when you lose it you realize how fragile and short your life is and you find out doctors are good at fixing cuts and broken bones, not neurological disorders. I am not an expert, just someone who is battling MS, uses LDN, knows where much of the important information is and occasionally has too much free time on his hands spending it in front of the computer. I can remember when I discovered LDN and the effect it had on me. I was ready to 'throw in the towel' before finding it. Avonex and Novantrone had gotten me very depressed and the MS was getting worse. Taking myself out became an option. LDN is not 100% perfect and you must work at things such as diet, proper combo of rest & exercise, vitamins/supplements, and a positive outlook on life, but it is a whole lot better than what is traditionally offered by neurologists for MS. A WHOLE LOT BETTER. This I know for a fact. Everyone who is considering using LDN should learn as much as possible. Don't just rely on one source. There are many members here who are a wealth of information gained through personal experience and should be listened to. There's not one here who has a mean bone in his/her body and they are here to help. Good people, all. I am grateful to them. Art --- > > Thank you Okan and Thank you Art for your uplifting contributions!!! > Tonight is LDN and tomorrow is Cytoxan!! > Marla:) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hi Art; Well 4 years ago when I was first diagnosed with Scleroderma, a very life threatening disease I engaged in a naturopath who taught me alot of many of the elements necessary to incorporate in day to day life like you have done. I have researched endlessly for the past 4 years, and for the first time a short 3 weeks ago, I became so afixiated with LDN. It was Dec. 28th 2008 I had heard about the ldn website. A mere 5 days after my first chemo. Imagine my mixed feelings of dismay and excitement at the prospect of perhaps something REAL may actually help halt the progression of my disease. My Rheumatologist lost 7 of his scleroderma patients because of lung issues. I refuse to ever be an addition to his list. I have taken matters now in my own hands, and with the aid of Dr. Bihari 2 weeks ago, I am now on LDN as you know. I feel great all the time but the doctors say I am sick. Go figure! If you saw me you would say no way, she doesnt look sick. I rely on my own inner gut feelings and always see the positive in most things. I joked with Joeseph Wouk, that if he appears on Oprah next year about LDn and I become another success story, I want to go on Oprah with him!!!! WE laughed!! I have only just begun the tip of the iceberg by telling alot of my friends about the possibilities that LDN may have. I will keep you posted!! Continue in your good health, and I always enjoy reading your replies to many of us in the group! Thank you, Marla:) mtlcute@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Marla,Thanks so much for sharing this! Wishing you continued health & happiness,Alison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 HI Marla,Have you checked out the ldn_4_cancer ? They may be able to help you regarding chemotherapy.Best Regards,Destinymtlcute <mtlcute@...> wrote: Hello;' I have begun Ldn the past 3 nights with no problem. I have scleroderma and my lungs have inflammation. It is for this reason alone that tomorrow I have my second round of Chemotherapy. It is IV induced 1200mg of cytoxan( canadian version is cyclophoasamide.) I have a 6 month protocol. My question to the group is.....Has anyone else taken chemo with LDN? I know its not probably the most ideal situation but I learned about LDN a week after my first treatment, and I should continue the chemo for my lungs.According to my Rheumatologist. Any concrete users of both chemo and LDN users I would like to hear from. Many thanks, Marla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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