Being legally forced to stop chelating.

> http://www.leighthompson.com/books/MindandHeart_3e/chapter1.htm

January 31, 2009

Why is the school involved in the first place? Giving them

information beyond their realm/expertise imo only leads many times to

such action as involving protective services. Prudent health

professionals should recognize that lead is stored away in bony tissue

[and other places] that will not acurately be reflected in blood

values. This information can/should be in front of the decision

maker/court in order that the decision maker can use it to decide in

the best interests of the child. In the future, keep the school and

other non medical personnel out of the information loop re what you

consider necessary and beneficial medical care for your child.

> >

> > I'm legally forced to stop chelating my child. The state said that

> he didn't have any lead in his blood therefore it's not in his body

> and I can't chelate with the dmsa we were using and the school

called

> child protective services on me and now we have to stop chelating.

> > Is this a violation of my parental rights?

> >

> > Our dan doc is a fully licensed practicing physician and I don't

see

> why I can't chelate per our docs test results and recommendations.

But

> the county is saying that those test results don't count.

> >

> > Anyone know what I should do!

> >

> > He really responded to Andy's protocol!!!

> >

>

> I would suggest you pick up a copy of " Getting to Yes " and " The Mind

> and Heart of the Negotiator "

> They were bot required texts in the class I took on " Negotiation and

> Conflict Management " .

>

> I manage to pull off a lot of stuff that people think can't be done

> and a big part of how I do that is by being very savvy about

managing

> my interactions with other folks. And it looks to me like you need

> help in that regard.

>

> I'm hesitant to say this on list because when I talk about some of

the

> things I do, it tends to make people view me as a suspicious,

> untrustworthy character and because the archives of this list are

very

> public, so it may not be a good idea to talk about your situation

> since it could potentially be printed off and end up in court. But,

> in brief, this is likely what I would do in your situation:

>

> a) Fire the doctor. He's clearly a jackass but he also makes a good

> sacrificial lamb for convincing the people you are dealing with that

> you have had a come to jesus, seen the error of your ways, and are

> Behaving, like a good little boy. I might even suggest I was a dumb

> little person (for me, the description is " dumb former homemaker who

> never managed to finish my bachelor's degree " ) who was " just

following

> orders " and got bad advice from an authority figure I trusted.

>

> Be genuinely 100% compliant and respectful of anyone involved in

> doing this to you. This is not really the same as kissing ass

though

> a lot of people will think it is. Do nothing to provoke them.

Don't

> so much as give them a funny look. Get your anger and other

emotional

> baggage under control. Meditate or whatever you need to do to calm

> yourself before any dealings with them. Doing anything inflammatory

> is just shooting yourself in the foot.

>

> c) Find a means to recover my kid without whatever thing I have been

> forbidden from doing. Can't give DMSA? Okay, I'll start serving

> Mexican for dinner. (Cilantro moves metals.) Are they going to

> forbid you from serving Mexican? Of course, this approach doesn't

> work unless you keep your mouth shut. Throwing it in their faces

> means they will likely find some means to block your new approach as

> well. You probably can't even tell your kid. Kids don't know when

to

> keep their mouths shut. This goes double for ASD kids.

>

> I haven't done AC chelation or ever used dmsa, ala or any of the

other

> chelators typically discussed on this list. I consumed cilantro for

> 16 months and I have found that sea salt, glyconutrients,

gauifenisen,

> hot baths, coconut oil and some other stuff helps the body process

out

> metals. This information tends to get negative reactions on this

list

> because it's not the party line here. But I don't think it's

> absolutely necessary to do DMSA to get lead out. I would get rid of

> all particle board and MDF furniture, all toxic cleaners, do

> aggressive nutritional support, etc For me and my sons, removing

> toxic stuff (like cleaners and MDF furniture) from our home so we

> aren't being continuously assaulted and then giving the right

> nutritional support has helped us get to a point where our bodies

can

> dump some things -- where the outflow of toxic crud exceeds the

> inflow. So I know it can be done, at least by some folks.

>

> Basically, " Deny the battle " . Though I doubt that phrase will make

> sense and I don't have time to try to explain it right now.

>

> Good luck with your situation.

>

> Michele

> http://www.healthgazelle.org

> http://www.kidslikemine.org

> http://www.solanorail.org

>

February 1, 2009

> c) Find a means to recover my kid without whatever thing I have been

> forbidden from doing. Can't give DMSA? Okay, I'll start serving

> Mexican for dinner. (Cilantro moves metals.) Are they going to

> forbid you from serving Mexican?

===>There was a lot of good advice, here, but really you took a lot of time to

say what everyone else has said, do what you are going to do but don't give the

information out. Giving Cilantro to a mercury toxic child is not recommended

due to a lot of adults having very bad experiences with it and getting worse. I

remember postings from you that, in time, using Cilantro made you very ill and

you had to stop. ===>

>

> I haven't done AC chelation or ever used dmsa, ala or any of the other

> chelators typically discussed on this list. I consumed cilantro for

> 16 months and I have found that sea salt, glyconutrients, gauifenisen,

> hot baths, coconut oil and some other stuff helps the body process out

> metals.

===>There is no evidence that anything, but Cilantro, on this list helps get

metals out. While these are all good products and might, I don't know, help

with the daily exposure to metals, it will not in any way chelate metals out of

people who are chronically mercury toxic, the way our kids are. We wish it were

this easy. And, again, Cilantro is not recommended.===>

This information tends to get negative reactions on this list

> because it's not the party line here.

===>No, it gets negative reactions because its inaccurate and misleading to

people who are basing their posts on some kind of science and not wishful

thinking.

>

> Good luck with your situation.

>

> Michele

> http://www.healthgazelle.org

> http://www.kidslikemine.org

> http://www.solanorail.org

>

February 1, 2009

The issue with Cilantro is we have no studies or data to determine its

half life, so we can't work out the timing of doses.

So the people getting worse on it were probably experience a lot of

redistribution and further concentration of heavy metals in organs.

wrote:

>

> > c) Find a means to recover my kid without whatever thing I have been

> > forbidden from doing. Can't give DMSA? Okay, I'll start serving

> > Mexican for dinner. (Cilantro moves metals.) Are they going to

> > forbid you from serving Mexican?

>

> ===>There was a lot of good advice, here, but really you took a lot of

> time to say what everyone else has said, do what you are going to do

> but don't give the information out. Giving Cilantro to a mercury toxic

> child is not recommended due to a lot of adults having very bad

> experiences with it and getting worse. I remember postings from you

> that, in time, using Cilantro made you very ill and you had to stop. ===>

>

> >

> > I haven't done AC chelation or ever used dmsa, ala or any of the other

> > chelators typically discussed on this list. I consumed cilantro for

> > 16 months and I have found that sea salt, glyconutrients, gauifenisen,

> > hot baths, coconut oil and some other stuff helps the body process out

> > metals.

>

> ===>There is no evidence that anything, but Cilantro, on this list

> helps get metals out. While these are all good products and might, I

> don't know, help with the daily exposure to metals, it will not in any

> way chelate metals out of people who are chronically mercury toxic,

> the way our kids are. We wish it were this easy. And, again, Cilantro

> is not recommended.===>

>

> This information tends to get negative reactions on this list

> > because it's not the party line here.

>

> ===>No, it gets negative reactions because its inaccurate and

> misleading to people who are basing their posts on some kind of

> science and not wishful thinking.

>

> >

> > Good luck with your situation.

> >

> > Michele

> > http://www.healthgazelle.org <http://www.healthgazelle.org>

> > http://www.kidslikemine.org <http://www.kidslikemine.org>

> > http://www.solanorail.org <http://www.solanorail.org>

> >

>

February 1, 2009

guifanesin as in the medicine they give for coughs? wow, ok. That

stuff makes me feel terribly tired. I can't say that helped me at all

with mercury.

>

> > >

> > > >

> > > > I haven't done AC chelation or ever used dmsa, ala or any of the

> other

> > > > chelators typically discussed on this list. I consumed

cilantro for

> > > > 16 months and I have found that sea salt, glyconutrients,

> gauifenisen,

> > > > hot baths, coconut oil and some other stuff helps the body

> process out

> > > > metals.

> > >

> > > ===>There is no evidence that anything, but Cilantro, on this list

> > > helps get metals out. While these are all good products and

might, I

> > > don't know, help with the daily exposure to metals, it will not in

> any

> > > way chelate metals out of people who are chronically mercury toxic,

> > > the way our kids are. We wish it were this easy. And, again,

Cilantro

> > > is not recommended.===>

>

> My recollection is that Andy has said that saunas are useful for

> removing metals and have been used historically to help miners who are

> overexposed to stuff. Andy doesn't recommend cilantro unless all

> other things have failed. Then he will tell people privately what he

> thinks will help make it safer and he does know of people who have

> successfully chelated with it. So it seems to me that if you are being

> blocked from using other things, it would be an option worth

> considering. Also, I never said what I am doing is easy. I have

> spent 7 1/2 to 8 years working on getting well when doctors said it

> wasn't possible. It's possible. But it's not easy. However, for me,

> it's easier than being chronically ill and doped to the gills.

>

> > >

> > > This information tends to get negative reactions on this list

> > > > because it's not the party line here.

> > >

> > > ===>No, it gets negative reactions because its inaccurate and

> > > misleading to people who are basing their posts on some kind of

> > > science and not wishful thinking.

> > >

>

> It's not wishful thinking. It's based on firsthand experience and

> also on talking to other people. For example: Guaifenisen is sometimes

> prescribed to people with Fibromyalgia because it helps remove

> something from the body and helps some folks with Fibro get better. I

> don't think they know what it removes with Fibro. They also don't

> really know what causes Fibro. As I understand it, it is a relatively

> new disorder, which suggests that it is probably caused by relatively

> recent changes to the environment, such as the amount of toxins in it.

> After googling around trying to find an explanation of what

> guaifenisen actually does in the body and finding nothing, I asked a

> former RN and she told me " you are asking questions doctors oten don't

> have the answer for. I don't think they know the mechanism behind

> it " . If someone does know of a source that explains what guaifenisen

> actually does in the body, I would love to see that.

>

> Michele

> http://www.healthgazelle.org

> http://www.kidslikemine.org

> http://www.solanorail.org

>

February 2, 2009

>

> Andy doesn't recommend cilantro unless all

> other things have failed. Then he will tell people privately what he

> thinks will help make it safer and he does know of people who have

> successfully chelated with it.

>

> ===>Yes, as a LAST resort, not the first course of action or

second even. It is a last resort because many people react negatively

to it, such as you did. But I did mention it as a chelator, just one

that is not recommended.===>

Dana has said that she gets contacted by people who do poorly on AC

chelation and for whom 8 hour chelation works better. They generally

contact her privately because it's probablematic to ask about it

publicly here since the AC protocol is the gold standard on this list

and if you do anything else, you are told you will damage your child.

Again, my main point was that if one path is legally barred, go find

another path to recover the kid. If you have good reason to be

concerned that use of DMSA could get your child taken away where you

are no longer in a position to help them recover, then it might be

good idea to not use it at all but don't give up on finding another

way. Cilantro is a known means to remove mercury. If it were ME and

my choice were between a) use DMSA and possibly lose my kid do

absolutely nothing and not recover my kid at all or c) seek out an

alternate path, I would go with " c " . Option C is one means to BOTH

comply with the legal order and do right by the kid. I only skimmed

earlier posts in the thread but, for example, the suggestions to only

chelate during the summer but using the same protocol sounds to me

like a much riskier path. People in a position to exercise control

over your life are all too often all about the power-trip far more

than they are interested what is genuinely best for your child. Such

people typically do not listen to logic. They simply want compliance.

Giving them respectful, sincere, genuine compliance is usually the

best, quickest way to get free of the situation. Doing so at the

expense of my child doesn't sit well with me. So I would look for a

solution that lets me do both things at once and completely sincerely

and honestly.

>

> > >

> > > ===>No, it gets negative reactions because its inaccurate and

> > > misleading to people who are basing their posts on some kind of

> > > science and not wishful thinking.

> > >

>

> It's not wishful thinking. It's based on firsthand experience and

> also on talking to other people.

>

> ===>Sorry, I do not mean to be rude but sea salt, coconut oil,

guaifenisen and anything else but Cilantro (which is not recommended)

in the list you mentioned, will not chelate out any metals. It's not

helpful for those who are trying to figure out how to help their kids

for you to mention things which will not chelate out metals.

I'm sure there is no intent to be rude. I know that one problem is

that the things I have done are not " mainstream " for the chelation

community. I know of at least two other people who have successfully

used coconut, though one of them used fresh coconut cream made from

whole coconuts with some serious blender. The other took ALA once on

the suggestion that it would help her blood sugar issues and had a

very negative reaction to it. I was the one that told her ALA is a

chelator and that would explain the problems it caused her. She

talked to both me and this woman who did coconut cream and used some

of the things we talked about to get to the point that she could

tolerate ALA.

I still have fillings, a gold bridge, and a crown in my mouth. If I

had the money to get them removed, doing so would leave me with too

few teeth to chew. For now, it is " better the devil I know " , so to

speak. I know coconut oil moves metals because if I take a spoonful

of it orally, it leaches metals from my dental work in much the way

cilantro began doing at the end when I had to finally give it up. I

continue to get gradually better. Although I do have a mild form of

cystic fibrosis (CF), I have every reason to believe that metal

poisoning is a major factor in my long history of health problems and

remains a major factor in my efforts to get well.

Due to my genetic disorder, which causes lung problems, I had

pneumonia at the age of four. Prior to having pneumonia, I had a

perfect dental checkup. The next dental checkup after having

pneumonia showed 13 cavities. I had one pulled and a spacer put in.

I had at least one crown. The rest were filled. After that, I had

one or two cavities at almost every single checkup until they sealed

my teeth at age 16. I have had multiple oral surgeries as an adult

and lost 5 large molars in my early thirties to these issues. All of

those molars had very large fillings in them. The loss of those teeth

allowed my sinuses to begin improving. Sixteen months of consuming

cilantro made a very big positive difference in my health.

As an aside: Dental problems are very common in the CF community, due

to a combination of high fevers while the teeth are forming which can

lead to hypocalcification, lots of medication, and vomitting. The

high levels of acidity of the tissues of people with CF may also be a

factor. I am beginning to believe that serious dehydration is another

factor. I believe the gums are mucus membranes and if that is correct

that would also contribute because all of the most seriously impacted

systems for people with CF involve mucus membranes (sinuses, lungs,

digestive tract and reproductive organs -- infertility is very common

with CF). In addition to lots of dental problems, people with CF tend

to get lots of vaccines. For example, we are supposed to get a flu

shot every year, even in childhood. So I suspect that metal poisoning

plays a part in the health problems of most people who have CF, not

just me.

The large amount of metal remaining in my mouth means that DMSA and

ALA are not viable options for me. Cilantro worked for a time but

became too strong after a certain amount of metal was removed. The

things I currently use move metals at a much lower rate than that, so

I can tolerate them and actually get gradually healthier instead of

merely dumping large amounts of metals from my dental work and making

myself sicker. As I understand it, people on this list typically

chelate for 3 days and then take 4 or 11 days off -- ie, as I

understand it, they typically chelate over the course of the weekend

either every weekend or every other weekend. They use things that

move metals at a much higher rate than what I use. But I consume sea

salt and gauifenisen daily and took coconut oil daily for about 2

years or so. So it looks to me like I move things out at a lower rate

but more or less continuously instead of intermittently. For me this

is working. I don't speak of it too much on list because I know it is

not the party line here and will be dismissed or outright attacked as

either simply not true (as you are doing currently) or as dangerous

behavior which encourages people to do something harmful to themselves

or their kids. But I continue to participate in a chelation list

because the information I get here is directly relevant to my efforts

to get well and it is relevant precisely because I continue to move

metals out of my system. If that were not true, I can't imagine I

would spend so much time here.

>

> And, to my remembering, guaifenisen dries up mucous. Am I

remembering wrong but don't you also have a mild form of cystic

fibrosis? NAC will yield the same or similiar results.

I have never heard of NAC being used as a substitute for gauifenisen

in the cystic fibrosis community. It gets used as a substitute for

Pulmozyne, usually when someone is allergic to pulmozyne. I have not

tried either NAC or Pulmozyne, so I don't have first-hand experience

to compare the three things. Guiafenisen only dries up mucus if you

don't get enough salt and water while on it. It thins mucus.

And, as I said in another email, that really isn't what I am asking.

I know it thins mucus. I don't know HOW it accomplishes that,

chemically/at the cellular level. And when I asked a former RN, she

couldn't come up with the answer either.

>

> I'm glad you feel better, .

Me too. It's been a very long haul.

Michele

February 2, 2009

----- Original Message -----

From: Michele

> ===>Yes, as a LAST resort, not the first course of action or

second even. It is a last resort because many people react negatively

to it, such as you did. But I did mention it as a chelator, just one

that is not recommended.===>

Dana has said that she gets contacted by people who do poorly on AC

chelation and for whom 8 hour chelation works better.

===>Andy, who has overseen many more cases of ASD kids than anybody has also

said there is the *rare* child who does better on the 8 hour protocol, 1 in

1,000, I think was the figure he used. This does not jive with the 2-3 people a

month reported to be contacting Dana.

The rest are people who would like their child to do better on 8 hour dosing

because that fits the parents' schedule. I can only infer this because of their

adamant screams of " I'm not getting up at night! "

They generally

contact her privately because it's probablematic to ask about it

publicly here since the AC protocol is the gold standard on this list

and if you do anything else, you are told you will damage your child.

===>I find it very hard to believe that one or two of the hundreds of people

reporting their kids do better on alternative chelation schedules would not have

the courage to say this. And I have been contacted by a number of people who

tried the 8 hour protocol and found it made their child worse, and then are

asking how to do chelation properly as their child is worse. You only have to

get a few of these emails, hear how badly their child got to figure out you

don't want to experiment with your child's brain.===>

I'm sure there is no intent to be rude. I know that one problem is

that the things I have done are not " mainstream " for the chelation

community. I know of at least two other people who have successfully

used coconut, though one of them used fresh coconut cream made from

whole coconuts with some serious blender.

===>Sorry, again with all due respect, this is like saying you can hand glide

to the moon. You can say it and you can believe it, but you can't do it. There

is nothing in coconuts that would cause excretion of metals. There is a lot of

confusion out there as to what actually does chelate metals. But I wouldn't hang

my hat on coconut products, although it would be hard to beat coconut or some of

it's derivatives for viral issues.===>

I don't speak of it too much on list because I know it is

not the party line here and will be dismissed or outright attacked as

either simply not true (as you are doing currently)

===>Just trying to inject some reality here.===>

>

> And, to my remembering, guaifenisen dries up mucous. Am I

remembering wrong but don't you also have a mild form of cystic

fibrosis? NAC will yield the same or similiar results.

I have never heard of NAC being used as a substitute for gauifenisen

===>Really?, NAC is widely recommended for people with COPD, probably for the

same reason, it thins mucous, makes it easier to expel. I would also imagine

that it would help with CF, although I have never read directly that it

would.===>

And, as I said in another email, that really isn't what I am asking.

I know it thins mucus. I don't know HOW it accomplishes that,

===>I have to stick to the " what " of things as I admit not having adequate

neurons for the " whys " of some scientific processes.

Pantothenic acid is said to help acne by the same process although I'm unaware

of any connection.

>

> I'm glad you feel better, .

Me too. It's been a very long haul.

Michele

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://\

February 2, 2009

I am once again chelating every 11 days with DMSA and ALA on the 3/4 hour

Cutler protocol after a 2 year break.

Thanks for sharing your story about cilantro and I agree that there is a

'party line.' People's hearts are in the right place, and there is good reason

for it but I don't like people discounting Dana's 8 hour chelation schedule or

success stories from people who have also had positive results. No one

thing is right for everyone.

I quit chelating for 2 years when I was only 1/4th recovered because I was

way too toxic to do a pill regimen every 3 or 4 hours for 3 days at a time. I

couldn't get support for the 8 hour thing on here so I just gave up

discouraged. Finally, the demands of teaching kindergarten became overwhelming

and I

knew I had to get more mercury out and couldn't completely give up on

chelation.

I do believe the 3/4 hour Cutler protocol is the 'safest' and I understand

why it is so supported. But some of us are so toxic that doing something that

frequently (with all the brain fog issues) is not possible. Sometimes I go to

4.5 or even to five hours because the kids distract me (I have 25

kindergartners). I have the alarm pill minder boxes and I set my cell phone.

They say that you are suppose to stop that round if you go past the 4 hours

but I don't and haven't had many symptoms from prolonging the doses to even 5

hours (though I stick mainly to 3-4 hours). I have very slow metabolism

though so perhaps redistribution is minimized due to my metabolism or because I

take so many antioxidants.

Anyway, thanks for sharing. I appreciate people with differing opinions and

believe there is room for all of us.

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February 2, 2009

>

> Michele,

>

> Do you still have amalgams? Is it unsafe to eat coconut oil with

amalgams? I have 11 amalgams and take a bite of coconut oil every

day. Or are you saying that the coconut oil is helping by eating it

even though you have amalgams? I am trying to figure out the safest

way to detox myself with these amalgams in.

>

> Dana

>

Yes, I still have amalgams (plus a gold bridge and a crown and two

root canals). I used to take coconut oil orally every day as a

supplement. These days, I find that is too much for me and on the

rare occasions when I do that, it causes problems and I have to manage

the fall-out to make sure those problems go away. It is still safe

for me to consume as part of food. I use it much less than I used to.

I used it daily for 2 years or so. In my experience, things which

mobilize mercury (like cilantro has been described as doing) but are

not true chelators need things like hot baths and guaifenisen to

support the process of making sure the metals come out. When cilantro

began making me ill, hot baths and guifenisen relieved the symptoms it

caused. I went through that for at least a couple of weeks before I

concluded decisively that it was the cilantro making me ill and that I

needed to just stop eating it. So I did that repeatedly -- consume

cilantro, end up nauseated and with headaches, take a hot bath and

guiafenisen to get rid of those symptoms.

If coconut oil and sea salt do what I think they do, people on this

list should be interested because a number of people here use these

things for gut issues while also chelating. If these things are

moving metals and also taken with chelators, I have to wonder at the

interaction of the two and if it explains some instances of unexpected

bad reactions during chelation.

Michele