Question..

[Guest guest]

Dear Ken,

What's down the road after fusion to the sacrum, my Doc says they don't know. Revision is a new enough surgery that they just don't have the facts for ten or twenty years out to recite to you. I believe there is someone here who is ten years out from her revision, maybe she'll chime in, but I think she's had more surgery since. I'm three years out in december, and so far so good. Have had one bout with Hardware Irritation, and had an injection for that. I am very careful to rest my neck since thats all I have that isn't fused. I'm not sure if there won't be a wearing out of the disk above T-1 since it gets used a lot, but at least it doesn't have all the weight of my spine and body on it like L-5 did before my revision. My best answer is there doesn't seem to be any guarntee that someday they might have to go in and tweek me again, but I sure hope not, and my doc sure thinks not.

Colorado Springs

[ ] Question..

Hello -

First, let me again say how glad I am to have been introduced to this group.. In my quest for info - the personal experience and insights from you has been Awesome for me!!!

I am wonding since none of us "Expected" to be dealing with our backs later in life - I am wondering if anyone has figured out what may be the next thing we will deal with... (10, 20 yrs from now??) - Mobility issues?? Pain managment?

What I mean is, we all seem to get the same answer: "live with it" or (Fusion to Sacrum) - so what happens to us (as a group) down the road? if anything?

I hope this doesn't seem like a negative post - I'm really just needing to know if any of you have already figured this out... I guess I would prefer not to be surprised again!! =)

Thank you, Ken.

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately it's something that you're just never going to know for sure - it's always possible to get blindsided by something. It worries me too - I'm 32, so all being well have somewhere in the 40-50 years region ahead of me, and that's a damn long time for things to happen in.

I had my original surgery in May 1994, aged just short of 21. By the time December 1999 rolled round, I was suddenly becoming significantly disabled. By the time October 2002 and my revision surgery arrived, I was 29 and about to buy a wheelchair because I could barely walk at all, bent double and in excruciating pain. I was bordering on incontinent as well - well, some days I was, other days I just couldn't wee at all even when I was practically bursting. By that point, 2400mg ibuprofen, 4g paracetamol & 80mg of dihydrocedeine tartrate a day wasn't even remotely enough - it barely maintained the last shreds of sanity I had.

After the surgery, I had 2 good years, then a few bad months. I managed to get things under control, and overall am still not taking any more painkillers than I was a year ago, which is good, but I'm certainly not as able as I was. I've got neurological symptoms again, and am leaning forward again. As the revision only fused me to L4, I put 2 and 2 together to think that one or both remaining discs had gone, and that this was the reason for the pain and the lean. It turns out I actually have stenosis - narrowing - of the spinal canal at L4-5, and foraminal stenosis (narrowing of the nerve root exit) on the right at that level. So I'm now on the wait for an epidural to see how well that works, and depending on how well, could be needing more surgery, this time for decompression. If decompression is needed, it'll have to be done sooner rather than later, because of the risk of a laminectomy destabilising the spine so that I'd need fusion to the sacrum. I believe they're talking in terms of a foraminotomy at this stage, if I understood the description correctly, and removal of the ligament if it's possible through such an approach.

It's a much smaller surgery, doesn't compare to a revision, but it's definitely come as a surprise, considering how well I was doing. In a way, I'm almost looking forward to the final fusion, because as long as I heal well and am fully upright, that should just be it then.

Anyway, despite that being something of a tale of woes, it must be said it's just been one long louse up all the way from the first surgery being done by the local hip-and-knee guy, so it's not entirely a normal run of things ;o)

titch-- Something unknown is doing we don't know what

[Guest guest]

Hi Ken -

Your question isn't at all negative! I'm sure it is one we all take

into consideration....at least I know I have. After having my

original surgery with the Harrington Rod, that question was in the

back of my mind ALWAYS. I guess it will be a question that we'll

always have, as we are technically the 'pioneers' of this type of

spinal surgery. At least Dr. Hu has informed me of the possibility

of needing a 2nd osteotomy 6-9 months after having the first, so I

won't go into this one expecting it to " fix everything " and be my

final procedure. And if it turns out that it is, then all the more

reason to celebrate! But as far as what's in store for our

futures? There is only One who could answer that question Ken. Our

choice is to either worry ourselves sick about it, or let Him.

Peace........

>

> Hello -

>

> First, let me again say how glad I am to have been introduced to

this group.. In my quest for info - the personal experience and

insights from you has been Awesome for me!!!

>

> I am wonding since none of us " Expected " to be dealing with our

backs later in life - I am wondering if anyone has figured out what

may be the next thing we will deal with... (10, 20 yrs from now??) -

Mobility issues?? Pain managment?

>

> What I mean is, we all seem to get the same answer: " live with it "

or (Fusion to Sacrum) - so what happens to us (as a group) down the

road? if anything?

>

> I hope this doesn't seem like a negative post - I'm really just

needing to know if any of you have already figured this out... I

guess I would prefer not to be surprised again!! =)

>

> Thank you, Ken.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Titch - we seem to be at very similar stages where the issue of disc's are concerned - I too have narrowing, etc!! My disc's from L3 - Sacrum are basically gone!! But they want me to hold off on "cleaning" up the disc's as long as possible due to the Stability issues.. and my age!! I am currently working on getting myself set up to see one of the recommended specialists from the board members here - so As they say... News @ 11 =)

oojackapivvy <oojackapivvy@...> wrote:

Unfortunately it's something that you're just never going to know for sure - it's always possible to get blindsided by something. It worries me too - I'm 32, so all being well have somewhere in the 40-50 years region ahead of me, and that's a damn long time for things to happen in.

I had my original surgery in May 1994, aged just short of 21. By the time December 1999 rolled round, I was suddenly becoming significantly disabled. By the time October 2002 and my revision surgery arrived, I was 29 and about to buy a wheelchair because I could barely walk at all, bent double and in excruciating pain. I was bordering on incontinent as well - well, some days I was, other days I just couldn't wee at all even when I was practically bursting. By that point, 2400mg ibuprofen, 4g paracetamol & 80mg of dihydrocedeine tartrate a day wasn't even remotely enough - it barely maintained the last shreds of sanity I had.

After the surgery, I had 2 good years, then a few bad months. I managed to get things under control, and overall am still not taking any more painkillers than I was a year ago, which is good, but I'm certainly not as able as I was. I've got neurological symptoms again, and am leaning forward again. As the revision only fused me to L4, I put 2 and 2 together to think that one or both remaining discs had gone, and that this was the reason for the pain and the lean. It turns out I actually have stenosis - narrowing - of the spinal canal at L4-5, and foraminal stenosis (narrowing of the nerve root exit) on the right at that level. So I'm now on the wait for an epidural to see how well that works, and depending on how well, could be needing more surgery, this time for decompression. If decompression is needed, it'll have to be done sooner rather than later, because of the risk of a laminectomy destabilising the spine so that I'd need fusion to the

sacrum. I believe they're talking in terms of a foraminotomy at this stage, if I understood the description correctly, and removal of the ligament if it's possible through such an approach.

It's a much smaller surgery, doesn't compare to a revision, but it's definitely come as a surprise, considering how well I was doing. In a way, I'm almost looking forward to the final fusion, because as long as I heal well and am fully upright, that should just be it then.

Anyway, despite that being something of a tale of woes, it must be said it's just been one long louse up all the way from the first surgery being done by the local hip-and-knee guy, so it's not entirely a normal run of things ;o)

titch-- Something unknown is doing we don't know what

Ken Leonard

Branch Manager - Sr. Mortgage Planner - Realtor

Direct Line: 562-355-2954

Richmond Home Loan 10531 Humbolt St. Los Alamitos, Ca 90720

office: 562-799-9303

fax: 562-799-9304

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

Thank you for your response!! The neuro surgeon I spoke with was mainly concerned about the remaining unfused portion of spine in the thorasic region - saying that it would have to work that much harder and could someday need fusing as well.. But, since he is not a scolio specialist I wondered what the rest of you have found out -

Thanks again for the info!! =) Kirkaldie <.Kirkaldie@...> wrote:

Dear Ken,

What's down the road after fusion to the sacrum, my Doc says they don't know. Revision is a new enough surgery that they just don't have the facts for ten or twenty years out to recite to you. I believe there is someone here who is ten years out from her revision, maybe she'll chime in, but I think she's had more surgery since. I'm three years out in december, and so far so good. Have had one bout with Hardware Irritation, and had an injection for that. I am very careful to rest my neck since thats all I have that isn't fused. I'm not sure if there won't be a wearing out of the disk above T-1 since it gets used a lot, but at least it doesn't have all the weight of my spine and body on it like L-5 did before my revision. My best answer is there doesn't seem to be any guarntee that someday they might have to go in and tweek me again, but I sure hope not, and my doc sure thinks not.

Colorado Springs

[ ] Question..

Hello -

First, let me again say how glad I am to have been introduced to this group.. In my quest for info - the personal experience and insights from you has been Awesome for me!!!

I am wonding since none of us "Expected" to be dealing with our backs later in life - I am wondering if anyone has figured out what may be the next thing we will deal with... (10, 20 yrs from now??) - Mobility issues?? Pain managment?

What I mean is, we all seem to get the same answer: "live with it" or (Fusion to Sacrum) - so what happens to us (as a group) down the road? if anything?

I hope this doesn't seem like a negative post - I'm really just needing to know if any of you have already figured this out... I guess I would prefer not to be surprised again!! =)

Thank you, Ken.

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Ken Leonard

Branch Manager - Sr. Mortgage Planner - Realtor

Direct Line: 562-355-2954

Richmond Home Loan 10531 Humbolt St. Los Alamitos, Ca 90720

office: 562-799-9303

fax: 562-799-9304

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

Hi Llweyn - Well Put!! I would have loved to have met your uncle, he sounds like quite a guy!!

You mention quality of life, it's funny but I think about that.. as the primary income earner for our family and living in So Cal where an average home is well over $550k ($650 = in decent neighborhoods) - the thought of moving to a less expensive area and keeping the overhead as low as possible crosses my mind as I do not know what the future holds but would rather be set up and prepared for a lifestyle change - that way if anything were to happen where I could not keep up the pace financially to make it around here, I would keep my dignity!!

Does that make any sense? I wonder if anyone else has had similar thoughts?

Llweyn Friars <mad.monk@...> wrote:

What happens to us further down the road? I don't think even the doctors really know. Even though we are all very similar in our experiences, we are also very different. I am one that tends to prepare for the worse and hope for the best. I think keeping positive in our attitudes, regardless of how our bodies behave, is the best thing we can do for ourselves. It makes using any mobility aids, we may need, easier to adjust to. It also helps with the pain management. Never stopping fighting for what we need, but also live the best life we can with what we have. If we learn to listen to our bodies, pace ourselves as we need and live each day to the fullest, that is the best we can do for our quality of life. No one knows what the next day will bring or even if we really do have another day. That is just part of life. We hope for another day and that day will be better than the last, but we don't know that for certain. Live and

learn each day to the fullest is the motto that my 105-year old uncle lived by, even though he was nearly deaf for 40 of those years, and his polio son lives by the same motto.

Llweyn

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Ken LeonardSent: October 26, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: [ ] Question..

I am wonding since none of us "Expected" to be dealing with our backs later in life - I am wondering if anyone has figured out what may be the next thing we will deal with... (10, 20 yrs from now??) - Mobility issues?? Pain managment?

What I mean is, we all seem to get the same answer: "live with it" or (Fusion to Sacrum) - so what happens to us (as a group) down the road? if anything?

Thank you, Ken.

Ken Leonard

Branch Manager - Sr. Mortgage Planner - Realtor

Direct Line: 562-355-2954

Richmond Home Loan 10531 Humbolt St. Los Alamitos, Ca 90720

office: 562-799-9303

fax: 562-799-9304

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

It makes complete sense. Living in the area of BC, our housing is only a little less than yours. My husband retired from the navy last year and I had to go on Disability so needless to say, our income was not that high to begin with and has since dropped a lot. The one thing I have learned is that it doesn't cost so much when you get out of the rat race of working. Yes, there are other expenses when you are dealing with chronic pain but you quickly learn what is really important in life and what is window-dressing. Priorities definitely change when your health becomes an issue.

Going on Disability, for me, was one of the best decisions health-wise. I was not pushing myself into the ground just to get a paycheque. I care-give/advocate for my elderly mother and cerebral palsy brother so I have been kept busy, but I have also learned a lot about the senior and disability community. I have found if I look at other areas of disability/chronic conditions then I can take some of their beliefs, techniques, etc. and apply it to my situation to make my life easier. Mobility and Living aids, for example, are just aids to help make life easier, no different than having to wear glasses in order to see. Applying for Disability benefits are there to make your life easier so you can live a more "normal" life (though I have yet to discover what normal is). It was hard for me to apply for disability, but when I did and was accepted then I felt that society recognized that the complication from scoliosis was a struggle for me. Now I am able to enjoy life more, even though the pain is more as well. I'm still waiting, after 3 years, for my appointment to see if I can get revision surgery and I'm hoping that life will be even better then. And yes, my uncle was quite a guy. He was even quite a charmer, but that is another story.

Llweyn

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Ken LeonardSent: October 26, 2005 8:29 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Question..

Hi Llweyn - Well Put!! I would have loved to have met your uncle, he sounds like quite a guy!!

You mention quality of life, it's funny but I think about that.. as the primary income earner for our family and living in So Cal where an average home is well over $550k ($650 = in decent neighborhoods) - the thought of moving to a less expensive area and keeping the overhead as low as possible crosses my mind as I do not know what the future holds but would rather be set up and prepared for a lifestyle change - that way if anything were to happen where I could not keep up the pace financially to make it around here, I would keep my dignity!!

Does that make any sense? I wonder if anyone else has had similar thoughts?

[Guest guest]

Dear Ken,

To add my two cents in, fusion to the sacrum is a part of the puzzle, but you got to remember that the doc's have to get you into balance in several planes, enough Lordosis, not too much Kyphosis, get your side to side curves better, and place hardware well to keep you that way. In my last revision my doc's had placed all my hardware, took X-rays and wasn't pleased with my balance, took the whole mess out, and reformated the rods and screwed everything back in again. Miss a piece of this puzzle, and then there's trouble. This is why we recommend that you get to a top revision specialist, some one who does tons of these surgeries, it would be awful to go through revision and have serious problems afterward. We are 3-D or 4-D, a must to get us right front, back, and all sides.

Colorado Springs

RE: [ ] Question..

Hi Llweyn - Well Put!! I would have loved to have met your uncle, he sounds like quite a guy!!

You mention quality of life, it's funny but I think about that.. as the primary income earner for our family and living in So Cal where an average home is well over $550k ($650 = in decent neighborhoods) - the thought of moving to a less expensive area and keeping the overhead as low as possible crosses my mind as I do not know what the future holds but would rather be set up and prepared for a lifestyle change - that way if anything were to happen where I could not keep up the pace financially to make it around here, I would keep my dignity!!

Does that make any sense? I wonder if anyone else has had similar thoughts?

Llweyn Friars <mad.monk@...> wrote:

What happens to us further down the road? I don't think even the doctors really know. Even though we are all very similar in our experiences, we are also very different. I am one that tends to prepare for the worse and hope for the best. I think keeping positive in our attitudes, regardless of how our bodies behave, is the best thing we can do for ourselves. It makes using any mobility aids, we may need, easier to adjust to. It also helps with the pain management. Never stopping fighting for what we need, but also live the best life we can with what we have. If we learn to listen to our bodies, pace ourselves as we need and live each day to the fullest, that is the best we can do for our quality of life. No one knows what the next day will bring or even if we really do have another day. That is just part of life. We hope for another day and that day will be better than the last, but we don't know that for certain. Live and learn each day to the fullest is the motto that my 105-year old uncle lived by, even though he was nearly deaf for 40 of those years, and his polio son lives by the same motto.

Llweyn

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Ken LeonardSent: October 26, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: [ ] Question..

I am wonding since none of us "Expected" to be dealing with our backs later in life - I am wondering if anyone has figured out what may be the next thing we will deal with... (10, 20 yrs from now??) - Mobility issues?? Pain managment?

What I mean is, we all seem to get the same answer: "live with it" or (Fusion to Sacrum) - so what happens to us (as a group) down the road? if anything?

Thank you, Ken.

Ken Leonard

Branch Manager - Sr. Mortgage Planner - Realtor

Direct Line: 562-355-2954

Richmond Home Loan 10531 Humbolt St. Los Alamitos, Ca 90720

office: 562-799-9303

fax: 562-799-9304

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

Dear Ken,

I am not the primary bread winner in my household, so those pressures are not mine. Levels of abilities vary widely after revision, so I'd put those thoughts on hold till after you have surgery and go from there. Southern California brings with it lovely weather, but does create quite a financial burden. My whole family has left California for just that reason, sold homes there, and most of them moved to Idaho, where they could get a huge chunk of land and a home for what their home cost in California.

I am very high functioning following revision. If it needs done around my house, I mostly do it since my husband travels a lot for work. I mow lawns, trim shrubs, basically all yard work is done by me, I'm a very avid gardener despite our very short season in Colorado. I drive a lot, have two teenagers at home, so I'm on the go all the time. I keep my own home, today I'm cleaning carpets with my own machine. I wash windows, paint etc. I'm VERY LUCKY, I've healed well, but I am reasonable with what I do. I DON'T LIFT ANYTHING HEAVY! Would never lift furniture, or move it. I take a power nap everyday, to rest my neck. I have learned to sit down and rest when my body tells me to. I come from a family who never complained about illnesses, just made do, I hate to feel like I'm whinning about my misfortune, many have it way worse than me. So for now my best advice is wait and see, everyone of us is different, you may come out of this with a lot more function than you think, and if you don't, then will be the time to shift gears.

Colorado Springs

RE: [ ] Question..

Hi Llweyn - Well Put!! I would have loved to have met your uncle, he sounds like quite a guy!!

You mention quality of life, it's funny but I think about that.. as the primary income earner for our family and living in So Cal where an average home is well over $550k ($650 = in decent neighborhoods) - the thought of moving to a less expensive area and keeping the overhead as low as possible crosses my mind as I do not know what the future holds but would rather be set up and prepared for a lifestyle change - that way if anything were to happen where I could not keep up the pace financially to make it around here, I would keep my dignity!!

Does that make any sense? I wonder if anyone else has had similar thoughts?

Llweyn Friars <mad.monk@...> wrote:

What happens to us further down the road? I don't think even the doctors really know. Even though we are all very similar in our experiences, we are also very different. I am one that tends to prepare for the worse and hope for the best. I think keeping positive in our attitudes, regardless of how our bodies behave, is the best thing we can do for ourselves. It makes using any mobility aids, we may need, easier to adjust to. It also helps with the pain management. Never stopping fighting for what we need, but also live the best life we can with what we have. If we learn to listen to our bodies, pace ourselves as we need and live each day to the fullest, that is the best we can do for our quality of life. No one knows what the next day will bring or even if we really do have another day. That is just part of life. We hope for another day and that day will be better than the last, but we don't know that for certain. Live and learn each day to the fullest is the motto that my 105-year old uncle lived by, even though he was nearly deaf for 40 of those years, and his polio son lives by the same motto.

Llweyn

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Ken LeonardSent: October 26, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: [ ] Question..

I am wonding since none of us "Expected" to be dealing with our backs later in life - I am wondering if anyone has figured out what may be the next thing we will deal with... (10, 20 yrs from now??) - Mobility issues?? Pain managment?

What I mean is, we all seem to get the same answer: "live with it" or (Fusion to Sacrum) - so what happens to us (as a group) down the road? if anything?

Thank you, Ken.

Ken Leonard

Branch Manager - Sr. Mortgage Planner - Realtor

Direct Line: 562-355-2954

Richmond Home Loan 10531 Humbolt St. Los Alamitos, Ca 90720

office: 562-799-9303

fax: 562-799-9304

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

Ken,

It may be that I am the oldest member of this group; I am not really sure. Just turned 71! Long ago, I was warned that I would never see my fiftieth birthday. Hmph! I've had four children in rapid succession and had no surgery for my 90 something and 80 something curvatures until I was 57. Yes, at this point, I have some problems. But, I am still here! No one yet has offered to do the revision surgery on me but, sometimes, I wonder if I'd even go through it at this point. Yes, I use a scooter for shopping or when my family goes on a long walk, but I feel that it gives me back my independence in many ways.

I guess life for us is pretty much like life for anyone. No one really knows what the future holds, no matter what the situation, right? I just hope that you will keep up a "good fight", keep asking questions, and enjoy your life as much as possible. Maybe a good pain clinic would help. Maybe you will have to have surgery. But, try to take it one day at a time as far as the future goes.

Sincerely,

Carole M.

[Guest guest]

Ken ~ I forgot to mention that I have Harrington/Luque rods, was fused in 1992 frin T6 to L5.

Carole M.

[Guest guest]

Well put Carole M - You're too young to be my grandma but I sure am glad you told me your age.. I guess because you sound like you are doing well and taking it all in stride and that is the same advice my grandma would have given me..

I truly do try to take things one day at a time - the past few months have gotten very difficult for me, I opened a new office and in doing so - pushed my self way too hard and had to take a month off (which killed me) I love to work and provide.. I am just not bouncing back this time... Although I must admit I'm blessed to be self employed and not have to worry about losing my job for taking time off when I need too -

but like many others, I have young children and it's hard when I can't do things with them (3 girls - 6, 8 & 12)...

Thanks again and thanks for understanding!!

scolioly2@... wrote:

Ken,

It may be that I am the oldest member of this group; I am not really sure. Just turned 71! Long ago, I was warned that I would never see my fiftieth birthday. Hmph! I've had four children in rapid succession and had no surgery for my 90 something and 80 something curvatures until I was 57. Yes, at this point, I have some problems. But, I am still here! No one yet has offered to do the revision surgery on me but, sometimes, I wonder if I'd even go through it at this point. Yes, I use a scooter for shopping or when my family goes on a long walk, but I feel that it gives me back my independence in many ways.

I guess life for us is pretty much like life for anyone. No one really knows what the future holds, no matter what the situation, right? I just hope that you will keep up a "good fight", keep asking questions, and enjoy your life as much as possible. Maybe a good pain clinic would help. Maybe you will have to have surgery. But, try to take it one day at a time as far as the future goes.

Sincerely,

Carole M.

Ken Leonard

Branch Manager - Sr. Mortgage Planner - Realtor

Direct Line: 562-355-2954

Richmond Home Loan 10531 Humbolt St. Los Alamitos, Ca 90720

office: 562-799-9303

fax: 562-799-9304

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

they don't say the virus can travel 3 feet. I think it can travel much more

In einer eMail vom 07.12.2005 07:36:59 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt rboylern@...:

The virus can spread through the air on small droplets from a cough or a sneeze. Depending on how strong the cough/sneeze is, those droplets can travel as far as 3 feet before they plummet to the groud due to the force of gravity.

Here are two links to useful information about air purification systems from Consumers Union, which is not tied in any way to the manufacturing of any product it tests.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/ionizing-air-cleaners-505/overview.htm

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/air-cleaners-1005/overview.htm

[Guest guest]

>The force of gravity is to strong for them to travel more than three feet. It must be >remembered that viruses and other organisms do not have the power to fly.

you can watch the droplets. They certainly travel much more than 3 feet ( ~1m)

[Guest guest]

In einer eMail vom 07.12.2005 09:03:07 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt rboylern@...:

>I've seen filmed demonstrations of this many times and you can see the droplet >spray go so far and the arc right to the ground. It's almost as though the droplets >had run into a wall.

seems that you are right. I found this with google:

http://www.drgreene.com/21_1073.html

very interesting and surprising to me.

however, flu can also be transmitted by "airborne" which has much larger range:

http://www.drgreene.com/21_1022.html

[Guest guest]

>Yes, bacteria and viruses hitch a ride on things floating in the air and so they can travel. >However, they can't travel without doing this hitch hiking.

how do they catch a dust-particle ? Probably not by jumping over from a droplet.

So, they go to ground land on some dust, the droplet evaporates and the

virus is adapted to the dustparticle.

Now it waits for some wind to get into air and recipient's nose.

Correct ?

Maybe the most deadly weapons in a pandemic

are vacuum cleaners and ventilators ?!?

[Guest guest]

The virus can spread through the air on small droplets from a cough or a sneeze. Depending on how strong the cough/sneeze is, those droplets can travel as far as 3 feet before they plummet to the groud due to the force of gravity. Here are two links to useful information about air purification systems from Consumers Union, which is not tied in any way to the manufacturing of any product it tests. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/ionizing-air-cleaners-505/overview.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/air-cleaners-1005/overview.htm kengibs <jkg4902@...> wrote: Question--Will the flu pandemic be transmitted by airborne pathogens such that air purification systems will be desired?Ken . Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie . Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

mind--Dr.Seuss

[Guest guest]

The force of gravity is to strong for them to travel more than three feet. It must be remembered that viruses and other organisms do not have the power to fly.sterten@... wrote: they don't say the virus can travel 3 feet. I think it can travel much more In einer eMail vom 07.12.2005 07:36:59 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt rboylern@...: The virus can spread through the air on small droplets from a cough or a sneeze. Depending on how strong the cough/sneeze is, those droplets can travel as far as 3 feet

before they plummet to the groud due to the force of gravity. Here are two links to useful information about air purification systems from Consumers Union, which is not tied in any way to the manufacturing of any product it tests. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/ionizing-air-cleaners-505/overview.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/air-cleaners-1005/overview.htm . Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie . Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind--Dr.Seuss

[Guest guest]

I've seen filmed demonstrations of this many times and you can see the droplet spray go so far and the arc right to the ground. It's almost as though the droplets had run into a wall.sterten@... wrote: >The force of gravity is to strong for them to travel more than three feet. It must be >remembered that viruses and other organisms do not have the power to fly. you can watch the droplets. They certainly travel much more than 3 feet ( ~1m) . Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie . Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind--Dr.Seuss

[Guest guest]

Yes, bacteria and viruses hitch a ride on things floating in the air and so they can travel. However, they can't travel without doing this hitch hiking.sterten@... wrote: In einer eMail vom 07.12.2005 09:03:07 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt rboylern@...: >I've seen filmed demonstrations of this many times and you can see the droplet >spray go so far and the arc right to the ground. It's almost as though the droplets >had run into a wall. seems that you are right. I found this with google: http://www.drgreene.com/21_1073.html very interesting and surprising to me. however, flu can also be transmitted by "airborne" which has much larger range: http://www.drgreene.com/21_1022.html . Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie . Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind--Dr.Seuss

[Guest guest]

That's a reasonable scenario. Of course, even when we're not aware of it there are dust particles floating through the air. Vacuum cleaners that have porous bags, as many brands do, are not all that good to begin with since they really just move the dust around from one place to another. There are some brands that do not have porous bags. Those are definitely better from a health standpoint. They also tend to be somewhat expensive. I've seen one advertised for something like US$250.00 (around €215,00). I am considering buying one of those as soon as I pay for the new eyeglasses I need. I think ventilators would be OK since they vent things to to outside and I doubt that any organism can survive after going through a ventilating system (pure guess on my part).sterten@... wrote: >Yes, bacteria and viruses hitch a ride on things floating in the air and so they can travel. >However, they can't travel without doing this hitch hiking. how do they catch a dust-particle ? Probably not by jumping over from a droplet. So, they go to ground land on some dust, the droplet evaporates and the virus is adapted to the dustparticle. Now it waits for some wind to get into air and recipient's nose. Correct ? Maybe the most deadly weapons in a pandemic are vacuum cleaners and ventilators ?!? . Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie . Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind--Dr.Seuss

[Guest guest]

Dani's have all been clear, but we quit running tests about 6 months ago.

Ginger

Daughter - le, 23 months ( since 7-12 months)

Son - Jay, 6 weeks.

~Ginger

Systems Solutions Principal, CAR Financial Services

Work: (770) 206-6201

Cell: (770) 823-2871

TREO: (404) 915-5035

Sent from my TREO; thus, please excuse any typos. (Especially with missing p's

- that key sticks!)

question..

My daughter has had a couple of abnormal urine test results...blood in

the urine and not quite right cells..they come back as negative for

UTI though. Does anyone else ever have issues with urine samples that

may be related to ?

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[Guest guest]

That was a big issue with . With the real bad fevers we would take

her to the ER.

They would do a urine test and it always came back with High white cell

count and all the docs told me she had a UTI..This lead us to do a

kidney test for urine reflux???????? (Another test that was not needed.

There is a culture that they can do... I want to say it is called a CSN

or aCNS culture for the urine. This will determine tell you if it is a

uti or not. When all the docs saw the high white cell count, they all

assumed she just had a UTI....

Even now, 4 years fever free, she still has a high white cell count in

her urin. Her doc is sending us back to infectious disease.

Hope this helps Marcie

>

> My daughter has had a couple of abnormal urine test results...blood in

> the urine and not quite right cells..they come back as negative for

> UTI though. Does anyone else ever have issues with urine samples that

> may be related to ?

>

[Guest guest]

My daughter 3 1/2 almost always has a high white cell count in her urine

when tested. She also has blood in her urine a lot. She has had 3 surgery for

kidney reflux. She has always ran the periodic fevers they have always just

though it had to do with her kidneys and the fact that she holds her urine she

can hold more urine than a grown man. In December of 2006 she was once again

hospitalized with fevers and a high white blood cell count the kidney doctor did

another reflux test and she passed but she has before and then it got worse and

they had to go in and she had been refluxing the whole time. ( I am including

this because I've seen other people say that their child was tested and it was

negitive just be carefull because with some children the only way to know if

they are refluxing before it starts to damage the kidney is to do surgery and go

in and see the tubes.) Well in february 2007 she was still not getting better so

we decided to let the kidney dr do the

surgery test. Thankfully the defux tubes where still in place. He referred us

to an I & D dr. which thinks that everything is related. He is doing more research

before we go back in Sept. 2007 on and kidney problems. I have to really

watch thing that katie drinks, especially when one the peiodic fevers hit.

I'm not sure if this will help you, but I hope it lets you know that they think

has and she also has urine problems.

sarah <saras_sarah_2002@...> wrote: My

daughter has had a couple of abnormal urine test results...blood in

the urine and not quite right cells..they come back as negative for

UTI though. Does anyone else ever have issues with urine samples that

may be related to ?

---------------------------------

Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on,

when.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info, I will ask the doc about possible kidney

issues, I am waiting for them to call me back with the results of a

new urine culture done on Friday.

My daughter has had a couple

of abnormal urine test results...blood in

> the urine and not quite right cells..they come back as negative

for

> UTI though. Does anyone else ever have issues with urine samples

that

> may be related to ?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see

what's on, when.

>

>