Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Thanks . After all these years I'm still learning. My child is 14. You have to be very careful with our kids and make sure we do what is safe and prudent, and that's my belief. We've been to very well known DAN's over the years but unfortunately my child is worse and not better. She has stumped them all. I know she was originally harmed by the Hep.B at one month old. I've spent most of her years healing her gut and doing very standard therapies as in PT, OT, speech and Auditory training. I'm here to learn and still have hope that she can get much better............thanks. Re: [ ] Re: newbie to biomedical > Hi Kathy, > > I planned to reply to your other post re DAN! protocols and how they > were unsafe, so just picked it up here. The safest way to chelate is to > use small doses on the half-life. This makes sure there is a consistent > amount of chelator in the body to keep the metal moving all the way out > the door. What many DAN! docs do is us high, irregular dosing. That is > what is dangerous. They mobilize a bunch of mercury, then let it drop > where ever it happens to let loose. Some may make it out, but the rest > will redistribute in bones, tissue or even the brain. This causes > serious issues for those trying to recover. Some of the people on this > board have come here after such episodes of bad protocol, and the > stories are scary. Some docs don't even bother to make sure that you > don't have amalgam fillings, which will give off mercury and make it so > more will redistribute. Others use unsafe chelators like EDTA, which is > more for heart patients, but there are still even better things than > EDTA for them. Some will use things they think are chelators, but which > don't really work to get the metals out. > > One of the biggest no-nos I've run into from DAN! doctors since > frequenting this board is the challenge test. Many docs seem to think > that they need to do a challenge test to prove there are metals before > it would be right to chelate. The challenge test consists of one mega > dose of chelator, then a urine test. The problem is, any mega-dose > chelation is going to move something out, but drop more in new places. > Then, you have redistribution, and an obvious, but no helpful test > result. I've heard of some DAN! docs recommending all the right > supplements for chelation, but then telling the patients NOT to take > them during chelation. So, the body gets a slam of mineral depleting > large dose chelator, but no replenishment until AFTER chelation. The > most recent concern here was the mom who was told to give her child an > excessively large quantity of water with each chelation dose. If dosed > properly, every 3-4 hours, then that amount of water could easily lead > to water intoxication and death. > > Redistribution isn't helpful at all. It just takes the bad and puts it > in a new place, but it leaves it in. The idea is to get all the > mercury, lead or other metal out. It takes time to do it safely and > comfortably with minimal redistribution. Some DAN! docs and others seem > to be learning. I've recently heard several reports of people coming > here with DAN! doctors who had almost gotten it right. That is > encouraging. As far as knowing what to avoid, the best thing to do is > continue to read posts, read the archives, read the files and get Andy's > book " Amalgam Illness. " I love the supplement section in the book too. > It is very helpful. I worked on supplements for many months before > beginning to chelate on my own, without a doctor. When I was > comfortable that I had read all that I needed to know, then we started. > Each of our kids is individual, so there really isn't a good outline I > just took what I saw that applied to mine and made my own decisions > about safety. > > Hope something there helps with the question. I'm sure others will have > input too. Hopefully, they are more eloquent than I am! > P. > > Hudson wrote: >> >> , As a new member here, but not new to biomedical treatments and >> DAN it >> would be helpful >> for you all to really explain the theories behind concentrating >> mercury and >> what we should avoid, etc. >> Thanks a lot, >> Kathy >> >> -- >> > > ------------------------------------ > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Why! Why! Why! Do they do this? I do not understand? Why are not more DANs picking up on the AC protocol? >> >> , As a new member here, but not new to biomedical treatments and >> DAN it >> would be helpful >> for you all to really explain the theories behind concentrating >> mercury and >> what we should avoid, etc. >> Thanks a lot, >> Kathy >> >> -- >> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ======= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 ----- Original Message ----- From: Sheena Another thing, that I was reminded of tonight, is the fact that he bruises easily. I just wondered if that was a specific deficiency I shoul address? ===>Bruising easily can be a deficiency of Vitamin C and/or Vitamin K. > > Sheena, > > The hair test is done by Doctor's Data and info about getting it is in > the files section. You need to request a specific one. Others can help > you more with that. Once I got on board, I decided that it was pretty > obvious we were mercury toxic, so needed no hair test to make the > decision to chelate. It is good to know if there is lead too, that > makes a difference in which chelator you choose. > > As for the MMR, with what you said, I'd say it was definitely that which > contributed, even if he didn't seem to regress right away. Sometimes it > takes a while for all the symptoms to kick in. Mine didn't immediately > regress either, but I can point to issues after each vaccination. We > are now vaccine free; no more for anyone in the family. After watching > what they did to their two youngest siblings, none of my kids want to > ever vaccinate their children either. I'm impressed with all you've > done for your son on your own. Most everyone on this board can relate > to the massive amounts of reading. I never even bothered with a > diagnosis for my son, since I'd never heard of anything before coming to > this board that would help him. As for yeast, chances are good it may > be an issue. I didn't realize my son had it until I accidentally used > GSE to treat it. I thought I was treating tonsillitis, and it ended up > being his head was full of yeast! Now the signs are so obvious it is > almost scary to think how long I didn't know. > > One of the best things you can do to use this board wisely, is after > reading the files section, post about specific issues you are having > with your son that you want to address. Many here have been there, and > have lots of sage wisdom to offer. That is how I figured out my NT > daughter's mitochondrial dysfunction. Between things like lots of ear > was, teeth grinding and stomach aches, the people here led me to that > problem. I then added her supplements, and WOW what a different kid she > is today. Another great place to look for info is > http://www.danasview.net - run by our very own Dana, who has lots to > offer on her site. FYI- the mito dys is a problem processing fats and > nutrients properly. The cells don't receive like they should. That is > an oversimplification, but pretty much it in layman's terms. It is > another possible outcome of mercury poisoning which is also treatable. > For my daughter, 12 years of h*** turned into a very happy life. She > was so uncomfortable before the mito cocktail and chelation. > > You will find many friends here. Trust that they will always want what > is best for you and your son. Though there are disagreements, this is > one of the tightest knit and trustworthy message boards I've ever had > the pleasure of participating with! > > P. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 but may surprise me if he's very very familiar with the files on my website? You want to tell me what THAT is supposed to mean Moria? moriamerri wrote: > > Hi Kathy, > > Forgive me for butting in here -- I think my answer may differ from > 's (but may surprise me if he's very very familiar > with the files on my website?) > > If you go here > http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html#steady_level > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/ANDY_INDEX.html#steady_level> > you can find a bunch of explanation about mercury redistribution > with " bad " dose timing. > It may not answer all your questions, but it should be at the > least a good start. > > I appreciate that as a new person, there's a lot that's new -- > and I'm trying to direct you to some of it that I've > " cataloged " . > > Actually, this page " Andy Index " can answer a lot of questions > for you once you get familiar (and I do mean VERY familiar) with > how it is organized. > > best, > Moria > > > > >> > > >> > #I can agree w/ his frustration, but if it comes off as > arrogance, > > >> he will not sway anyone. Its easier to get flies w/ honey than > > >> vinegar-isn't that what they say? I'd listen to a sweet person > who > > >> knows little over a cocky person who knows it all. > > >> > > >> Well, I think you referred to his style in an earlier comment > > >> as " know it all " (you used all caps). ( " If I wanted to be > > >> criticized, I'll go to my parents house! " ) > > >> > > >> The most useful (read: safe and effective) method for mercury > > >> chelation is " Andy's method " , also known as frequent low dosage > > >> chelation. There are a couple of lists where it is widely > > >> used or " the norm " -- but there are VERY few others besides > > >> Andy who promote it in any way. > > >> Andy is the expert on this method, which I consider by far the > > >> best method. (There are also a FEW others who are experts > > >> regarding this method, but Andy did originate it, and so people > > >> give him a unique degree of authority about it. Rightly IMO.) > > >> You don't need to like his style in order to use this method, > > >> however. Here are some basics about how it works: > > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/Andy_dose_sched.html > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/Andy_dose_sched.html> > > >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/Andy_dose_sched.html > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/Andy_dose_sched.html>> > > >> > > >> I have documented many aspects of how to use low frequent > > >> dosage chelation (aka " Andy's method " ). I express things > > >> differently than Andy, if that's any help LOL. I am > > >> almost gruesomely intent on " the details " of things and > > >> trying to make things clear/complete. This often results in my > > >> using many many words (where Andy is more terse). > > >> > > >> > #I have made appointments w/ 2 doctors. One for mineral & heavy > > >> metal testing & one is a seminar for parents to intro them to > > >> biomedical treatment. I like to keep my options open. > > >> > > >> Yeah for you! I like to explore lots of options while I'm > > >> evaluating. I think that if you're willing to dive into this > > >> topic (which can be pretty daunting), you'll eventually choose > > >> the low frequent dose method. But checking out the options is > > >> very good IMO. > > >> > > >> As far as the testing goes, I'll also comment that most of the > > >> tests someone would do are useless or darned close to it. > > >> There's more about that at the URL cited below: > > >> > > >> > I want to chose the right doctor not just find a dr. What & > how do > > >> I get the hair test? > > >> > > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html> > > >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html>> > > >> Again, this is not a short answer, it is a longer answer. > > >> But it does contain the info on where to actually order the > > >> test and so on. (Price is probably wrong for years now.) > > >> > > >> There's also a page there about some options for locating > > >> appropriate doctors (in another file located at > > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/> > > >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/ > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/>> ) > > >> > > >> Although I am detailed and thorough, sadly my pages are VERY > > >> out of date -- I have not updated them in several years, and > > >> there are always changes (e.g. new sources for buying chelation > > >> agents). I can't stop to let myself think about this though. > > >> Fortunately the info on chelation agents, dosages and timing > > >> really doesn't change. > > >> > > >> good wishes, > > >> Moria > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 What I was referring to is chelators used incorrectly and other substances that are pushed as " safe chelators " like chlorella. has given some good examples. Here's an example below of a study using incorrect dosage and timing of chelators. There are other studies to show the same or similar that you can track down on pubmed. Vitamin C, Glutathione, or Lipoic Acid Did Not Decrease Brain or Kidney Mercury in Rats Exposed to Mercury Vapor† H. Vasken Aposhian,1,* L. ,2 H. L. Sam Queen,3 M. Maiorino,1 and M. Aposhian1 1 Department of Molecular and Cellular Biology, The University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona, USA 2 Laboratory of Toxicology, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, USA 3 The Institute for Health Realities, Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA ABSTRACT Some medical practitioners prescribe GSH and vitamin C alone or in combination with DMPS or DMSA for patients with mercury exposure that is primarily due to the mercury vapor emitted by dental amalgams. Hypothesis. This study tested the hypothesis that GSH, vitamin C, or lipoic acid alone or in combination with DMPS or DMSA would decrease brain mercury. Methods. Young rats were exposed to elemental mercury by individual nose cone, at the rate of 4.0 mg mercury per m3 air for 2 h per day for 7 consecutive days. After a 7-day equilibrium period, DMPS, DMSA, GSH, vitamin C, lipoic acid alone, or in combination was administered for 7 days and the brain and kidneys of the animals removed and analyzed for mercury by cold vapor atomic absorption. Results: None of these regimens reduced the mercury content of the brain. Although DMPS or DMSA was effective in reducing kidney mercury concentrations, GSH, vitamin C, lipoic acid alone, or in combination were not. Conclusion. One must conclude that the palliative effect, if any, of GSH, vitamin C, or lipoic acid for treatment of mercury toxicity due to mercury vapor exposure does not involve mercury mobilization from the brain and kidney. Hudson wrote: > > , As a new member here, but not new to biomedical treatments and > DAN it > would be helpful > for you all to really explain the theories behind concentrating > mercury and > what we should avoid, etc. > Thanks a lot, > Kathy > > Re: [ ] Re: newbie to biomedical > > > We've got a very sweet talking person on another list who is leading a > > whole bunch of parents to do things for their kids that will just cause > > a concentration of mercury in the brain and other organs. > > > > Sometimes the honey approach is poison, but it sounds sweet and tastes > > great, and everyone feels good about themselves so they lap it up. > > > > > > moriamerri wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> P wrote: > >> > > 1st, don't be too hard on Andy, even if he seems hard on you. > >> His > >> > > matter of fact style was developed after years of watching > >> parents hurt > >> > > their children trusting doctors to know how to safely heal them. > >> > >> IMO that's no reason not to respond to his style when it is > >> " hard on " people. Obviously opinions differ on this point, > >> and obviously Andy continues to choose the sytle he is choosing. > >> > >> One of > >> > > the first recommendations people make newcomers here is to get > >> Andy's > >> > > book, Amalgam Illness. As you go, if you can get past the > >> bluntness of > >> > > his style, you will find that Andy's help and chelation protocol > >> is what > >> > > is recovering many children. It is safe, low dosage and slow. > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > #I can agree w/ his frustration, but if it comes off as arrogance, > >> he will not sway anyone. Its easier to get flies w/ honey than > >> vinegar-isn't that what they say? I'd listen to a sweet person who > >> knows little over a cocky person who knows it all. > >> > >> Well, I think you referred to his style in an earlier comment > >> as " know it all " (you used all caps). ( " If I wanted to be > >> criticized, I'll go to my parents house! " ) > >> > >> The most useful (read: safe and effective) method for mercury > >> chelation is " Andy's method " , also known as frequent low dosage > >> chelation. There are a couple of lists where it is widely > >> used or " the norm " -- but there are VERY few others besides > >> Andy who promote it in any way. > >> Andy is the expert on this method, which I consider by far the > >> best method. (There are also a FEW others who are experts > >> regarding this method, but Andy did originate it, and so people > >> give him a unique degree of authority about it. Rightly IMO.) > >> You don't need to like his style in order to use this method, > >> however. Here are some basics about how it works: > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/Andy_dose_sched.html > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/Andy_dose_sched.html> > >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/Andy_dose_sched.html > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/Andy_dose_sched.html>> > >> > >> I have documented many aspects of how to use low frequent > >> dosage chelation (aka " Andy's method " ). I express things > >> differently than Andy, if that's any help LOL. I am > >> almost gruesomely intent on " the details " of things and > >> trying to make things clear/complete. This often results in my > >> using many many words (where Andy is more terse). > >> > >> > #I have made appointments w/ 2 doctors. One for mineral & heavy > >> metal testing & one is a seminar for parents to intro them to > >> biomedical treatment. I like to keep my options open. > >> > >> Yeah for you! I like to explore lots of options while I'm > >> evaluating. I think that if you're willing to dive into this > >> topic (which can be pretty daunting), you'll eventually choose > >> the low frequent dose method. But checking out the options is > >> very good IMO. > >> > >> As far as the testing goes, I'll also comment that most of the > >> tests someone would do are useless or darned close to it. > >> There's more about that at the URL cited below: > >> > >> > I want to chose the right doctor not just find a dr. What & how do > >> I get the hair test? > >> > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html> > >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html>> > >> Again, this is not a short answer, it is a longer answer. > >> But it does contain the info on where to actually order the > >> test and so on. (Price is probably wrong for years now.) > >> > >> There's also a page there about some options for locating > >> appropriate doctors (in another file located at > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/> > >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/ > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/>> ) > >> > >> Although I am detailed and thorough, sadly my pages are VERY > >> out of date -- I have not updated them in several years, and > >> there are always changes (e.g. new sources for buying chelation > >> agents). I can't stop to let myself think about this though. > >> Fortunately the info on chelation agents, dosages and timing > >> really doesn't change. > >> > >> good wishes, > >> Moria > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 > > > > > > , As a new member here, but not new to biomedical treatments > > and DAN it > > > would be helpful > > > for you all to really explain the theories behind concentrating > > mercury and > > > what we should avoid, etc. > > > Thanks a lot, > > > Kathy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 > > Why! Why! Why! Do they do this? I do not understand? Why are not more DANs picking up on the AC protocol? Medical school provides a liberal arts education. See the University of Washington's website to verify this. Liberal arts educations do not prepare people to understand how to use dangerous chemicals properly. DAN! doctors ARE mostly MD's. Unlike most of their professional brethren they are not continuing to poison babies with mercury a decade after that was clearly recognized as a problem by anyone who used their brain for reasoning in a manner that would be accepted as legitimate by a scientist or engineer. Being artistic, they follow fads and fashions and are impervious to reason. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Because they rely on different information than Andy has given. I do believe that the more they are exposed to Andy's protocol, along with seeing good results, the more they will come around. But, I don't want them to touch my kids until they have come around! if you know what I mean? Many parents here are educating open DAN!s and naturopaths. It'll just take a while to become mainstream. Meanwhile, the mainstream ideas just don't work, and they, unfortunately, are what DAN!s are taught. P. dana pope wrote: > > Why! Why! Why! Do they do this? I do not understand? Why are not > more DANs picking up on the AC protocol? > > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 > Here's an example below of a study using incorrect dosage and timing of > chelators. There are other studies to show the same or similar that you > can track down on pubmed. This is why licensure does so much damage (it caused the autism epidemic among other things). In order to be able to practice medicine people must undergo the careful selection to exclude those with legitimate technical backgrounds, then the intense brainwashing in med school. This effectively turns medicine into a liberal art. Then they are confronted with all these journal papers. Having none of the intellectual tools to analyze the papers, they tend to be accepted at face value and once a few incorrect results are accepted as being true, further reasoning and progress becomes totally impossible. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Fair enough moriamerri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > , As a new member here, but not new to biomedical > treatments > > > and DAN it > > > > would be helpful > > > > for you all to really explain the theories behind concentrating > > > mercury and > > > > what we should avoid, etc. > > > > Thanks a lot, > > > > Kathy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 > > what do you mean the DAN protocols are dangerous? Many of the things held out as totally safe result in permanent horrible incurable worsening of some of the children they are done to - something never mentioned by the doctors whose patients I have had complain about this repeatedly to me, who continue to insist they have never seen any problems, e. g. with IV glutathione, when they present at DAN! or other conferences. For the typical result of DMPS iv's in 1 case out of 6, see www.dmpsbackfire.com. Those are all adults, but that means they're lucid, verbal and coherent and can describe what happened to them, unlike autistic children who are at risk of experiencing the same thing. Since DMPS injections don't actually help anyway it seems irrational to accept ANY risk. Remember, the pediatricians who are turning a couple of kids a month autistic with vaccinations insist those are totally safe, too. Things to avoid when going to a doctor for autism treatment: Any harmful and inappropriate chelation protocol. E. g. treatment with nonchelators like cholella, use of chelators with unknown properties like OSR or cilantro, use of DMPS by injection, or td every other day, use of EDTA in mercury toxic people, use of DMSA every day or every 8 hours, use of ALA every day, twice a day, etc. Anything and everything if they insist on doing a lot of interventions through a needle right up front, especially at the first visit. Glutathione iv's. Any time the doctor talks about a healing crisis and that you have to keep doing something even though the kid is getting worse, stop it and run away screaming. THIS is how you can make your child permanently horribly worse - the sooner you stop things that don't agree with the kid, the more likely they recover from it. Anything prescribed to everyone who walks in the door - the more the doc's talk about individualized treatment, the less they seem to actually do it. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 > I wanted to elaborate on my response to Andy.... I don't think the Dr > turned my kid autistic. I beleve that God has the almighty power and > to say that doctors have the power to pick and choose which kids to > give autism is rediculous! If a criminal shoots someone in the head for fun, and that person dies, did God kill them or did the criminal? What if the criminal was playing russian roulette and not all the chambers were loaded? It's really only a matter of degree here. Just because some children are tough enough biochemically to handle toxic amounts of mercury without too much brain damage doesn't excuse the doctor for injecting it into so many of them that some are sure to turn autistic. Even if God decides which ones turn autistic and which don't, the doctor still has no excuse - and in common usage, the doctor still turned those kids autistic. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Many DAN! doctors do " challenge " tests which use a single, high dose of chelator which slams mercury into the brain. The results of the test are not particularly useful. Many recommend doses which are too high and given on a schedule unrelated to the half life of the chelator, which again sends more mercury into the brain than out of the brain and body. DMSA should be 1/8-1/2 mg/lb every 4 hours day and night for 3 days and nights on and as many off. ALA should be given at 1/8-1/2 mg//lb every 3 hours during the day and every 4 at night for 3 days on and as many off. If needed these can be given from Friday right after school until Monday just before school which is 2/6 days. Some DAN! doctors prescribe glutathione without correctly determining whether the individual needs it. Some DAN! docs do IV chelation which is unnecessary and unsafe. Some DAN! docs use inappropriate chelators like EDTA. S S Re: newbie to biomedical Posted by: " Hudson " jhud2@... curemyabby Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:35 am (PDT) what do you mean the DAN protocols are dangerous? [ ] Re: newbie to biomedical > Welcome to the list. You're in the right place. Most of us chelate > without a doc. Most DAN! docs use a dangerous protocol. > S S ------------------------------------------------------------ Graphic Design School Free information on becoming a Graphic Designer. Click Now! http://tagline.excite.com/fc/JkJQPTgMWonw1mkGXbCJrUzbNeCPFBZXAU8XyZxezozmbjngDl8\ 37K/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 This sounds discouraging. On Oct 29, 2008, at 9:07 PM, Reynolds wrote: > What I was referring to is chelators used incorrectly and other > substances that are pushed as " safe chelators " like chlorella. > > has given some good examples. > > Here's an example below of a study using incorrect dosage and > timing of > chelators. There are other studies to show the same or similar that > you > can track down on pubmed. > > > Vitamin C, Glutathione, or Lipoic Acid Did Not Decrease Brain > or Kidney Mercury in Rats Exposed to Mercury Vapor† > H. Vasken Aposhian,1,* L. ,2 H. L. Sam Queen,3 > M. Maiorino,1 and M. Aposhian1 > 1 > Department of Molecular and Cellular Biology, The University of > Arizona, > Tucson, Arizona, USA > 2 > Laboratory of Toxicology, National Institute of Environmental Health > Sciences, > Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, USA > 3 > The Institute for Health Realities, Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA > ABSTRACT > Some medical practitioners prescribe GSH and vitamin C alone or in > combination with DMPS > or DMSA for patients with mercury exposure that is primarily due to > the > mercury vapor > emitted by dental amalgams. Hypothesis. This study tested the > hypothesis > that GSH, vitamin > C, or lipoic acid alone or in combination with DMPS or DMSA would > decrease brain > mercury. Methods. Young rats were exposed to elemental mercury by > individual nose cone, at > the rate of 4.0 mg mercury per m3 air for 2 h per day for 7 > consecutive > days. After a 7-day > equilibrium period, DMPS, DMSA, GSH, vitamin C, lipoic acid alone, > or in > combination was > administered for 7 days and the brain and kidneys of the animals > removed > and analyzed for > mercury by cold vapor atomic absorption. Results: None of these > regimens > reduced the > mercury content of the brain. Although DMPS or DMSA was effective in > reducing kidney > mercury concentrations, GSH, vitamin C, lipoic acid alone, or in > combination were not. > Conclusion. One must conclude that the palliative effect, if any, of > GSH, vitamin C, or lipoic > acid for treatment of mercury toxicity due to mercury vapor exposure > does not involve > mercury mobilization from the brain and kidney. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hudson wrote: >> >> , As a new member here, but not new to biomedical treatments and >> DAN it >> would be helpful >> for you all to really explain the theories behind concentrating >> mercury and >> what we should avoid, etc. >> Thanks a lot, >> Kathy >> >> Re: [ ] Re: newbie to biomedical >> >>> We've got a very sweet talking person on another list who is >>> leading a >>> whole bunch of parents to do things for their kids that will just >>> cause >>> a concentration of mercury in the brain and other organs. >>> >>> Sometimes the honey approach is poison, but it sounds sweet and >>> tastes >>> great, and everyone feels good about themselves so they lap it up. >>> >>> >>> moriamerri wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> P wrote: >>>>>> 1st, don't be too hard on Andy, even if he seems hard on you. >>>> His >>>>>> matter of fact style was developed after years of watching >>>> parents hurt >>>>>> their children trusting doctors to know how to safely heal them. >>>> >>>> IMO that's no reason not to respond to his style when it is >>>> " hard on " people. Obviously opinions differ on this point, >>>> and obviously Andy continues to choose the sytle he is choosing. >>>> >>>> One of >>>>>> the first recommendations people make newcomers here is to get >>>> Andy's >>>>>> book, Amalgam Illness. As you go, if you can get past the >>>> bluntness of >>>>>> his style, you will find that Andy's help and chelation protocol >>>> is what >>>>>> is recovering many children. It is safe, low dosage and slow. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> #I can agree w/ his frustration, but if it comes off as arrogance, >>>> he will not sway anyone. Its easier to get flies w/ honey than >>>> vinegar-isn't that what they say? I'd listen to a sweet person who >>>> knows little over a cocky person who knows it all. >>>> >>>> Well, I think you referred to his style in an earlier comment >>>> as " know it all " (you used all caps). ( " If I wanted to be >>>> criticized, I'll go to my parents house! " ) >>>> >>>> The most useful (read: safe and effective) method for mercury >>>> chelation is " Andy's method " , also known as frequent low dosage >>>> chelation. There are a couple of lists where it is widely >>>> used or " the norm " -- but there are VERY few others besides >>>> Andy who promote it in any way. >>>> Andy is the expert on this method, which I consider by far the >>>> best method. (There are also a FEW others who are experts >>>> regarding this method, but Andy did originate it, and so people >>>> give him a unique degree of authority about it. Rightly IMO.) >>>> You don't need to like his style in order to use this method, >>>> however. Here are some basics about how it works: >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/Andy_dose_sched.html >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/Andy_dose_sched.html> >>>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/Andy_dose_sched.html >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/Andy_dose_sched.html>> >>>> >>>> I have documented many aspects of how to use low frequent >>>> dosage chelation (aka " Andy's method " ). I express things >>>> differently than Andy, if that's any help LOL. I am >>>> almost gruesomely intent on " the details " of things and >>>> trying to make things clear/complete. This often results in my >>>> using many many words (where Andy is more terse). >>>> >>>>> #I have made appointments w/ 2 doctors. One for mineral & heavy >>>> metal testing & one is a seminar for parents to intro them to >>>> biomedical treatment. I like to keep my options open. >>>> >>>> Yeah for you! I like to explore lots of options while I'm >>>> evaluating. I think that if you're willing to dive into this >>>> topic (which can be pretty daunting), you'll eventually choose >>>> the low frequent dose method. But checking out the options is >>>> very good IMO. >>>> >>>> As far as the testing goes, I'll also comment that most of the >>>> tests someone would do are useless or darned close to it. >>>> There's more about that at the URL cited below: >>>> >>>>> I want to chose the right doctor not just find a dr. What & how do >>>> I get the hair test? >>>> >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html> >>>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html>> >>>> Again, this is not a short answer, it is a longer answer. >>>> But it does contain the info on where to actually order the >>>> test and so on. (Price is probably wrong for years now.) >>>> >>>> There's also a page there about some options for locating >>>> appropriate doctors (in another file located at >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/> >>>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/ >> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emoriam/>> ) >>>> >>>> Although I am detailed and thorough, sadly my pages are VERY >>>> out of date -- I have not updated them in several years, and >>>> there are always changes (e.g. new sources for buying chelation >>>> agents). I can't stop to let myself think about this though. >>>> Fortunately the info on chelation agents, dosages and timing >>>> really doesn't change. >>>> >>>> good wishes, >>>> Moria >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Hi , Not sure why this sounds discouraging to you. It shouldn't. It is just discouraging for the people who are not informed about safe protocols and damage their kids using what isn't safe. You seem to be doing fine. Nothing in this topic really relates to you since you know how to do it right :-D P. Arias wrote: > This sounds discouraging. > On Oct 29, 2008, at 9:07 PM, Reynolds wrote: > > >> What I was referring to is chelators used incorrectly and other >> substances that are pushed as " safe chelators " like chlorella. >> >> has given some good examples. >> >> Here's an example below of a study using incorrect dosage and >> timing of >> chelators. There are other studies to show the same or similar that >> you >> can track down on pubmed. >> >> >> Vitamin C, Glutathione, or Lipoic Acid Did Not Decrease Brain >> or Kidney Mercury in Rats Exposed to Mercury Vapor† >> H. Vasken Aposhian,1,* L. ,2 H. L. Sam Queen,3 >> M. Maiorino,1 and M. Aposhian1 >> 1 >> D > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 thanks andy. i will say that several years back we did glutathione iv's once a month for a while and my daughter did extremely well about 2 weeks after each one. glutathione is a great antioxidant, so why is it problematic? because of being administered by IV? i'm also very curious as to what you think of the geier's and their lupron protocol? kathy [ ] Re: newbie to biomedical > >> >> what do you mean the DAN protocols are dangerous? > > Many of the things held out as totally safe result in permanent horrible > incurable > worsening of some of the children they are done to - something never > mentioned by the > doctors whose patients I have had complain about this repeatedly to me, > who continue to > insist they have never seen any problems, e. g. with IV glutathione, when > they present at > DAN! or other conferences. > > For the typical result of DMPS iv's in 1 case out of 6, see > www.dmpsbackfire.com. Those > are all adults, but that means they're lucid, verbal and coherent and can > describe what > happened to them, unlike autistic children who are at risk of experiencing > the same thing. > > Since DMPS injections don't actually help anyway it seems irrational to > accept ANY risk. > > Remember, the pediatricians who are turning a couple of kids a month > autistic with > vaccinations insist those are totally safe, too. > > Things to avoid when going to a doctor for autism treatment: > > Any harmful and inappropriate chelation protocol. E. g. treatment with > nonchelators like > cholella, use of chelators with unknown properties like OSR or cilantro, > use of DMPS by > injection, or td every other day, use of EDTA in mercury toxic people, use > of DMSA every > day or every 8 hours, use of ALA every day, twice a day, etc. > > Anything and everything if they insist on doing a lot of interventions > through a needle > right up front, especially at the first visit. > > Glutathione iv's. > > Any time the doctor talks about a healing crisis and that you have to keep > doing > something even though the kid is getting worse, stop it and run away > screaming. THIS is > how you can make your child permanently horribly worse - the sooner you > stop things > that don't agree with the kid, the more likely they recover from it. > > Anything prescribed to everyone who walks in the door - the more the doc's > talk about > individualized treatment, the less they seem to actually do it. > > Andy > > > ------------------------------------ > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 > > Another thing, that I was reminded of tonight, is the fact that he bruises easily. I just wondered if that was a specific deficiency I shoul address? Deficiencies of vitamin C and/or vitamin K You made a comment in a previous email that he spins. That meant yeast overgrowth at my house http://www.danasview.net/yeast.htm Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 You may also be interested in the group chelatingkids2. Pamela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 > > You may also be interested in the group chelatingkids2. > > > > Pamela You may indeed be interested in joining that group. In reading it, you may want to also consider that discussion of Andy's protocol is forbidden there. Um, and someone please correct me if that is wrong (or not precisely correct). Saying his name is forbidden, and I *think* his protocol is also -- but I'm not as sure about the second part. Also, I just read the group description there and learned that forwarding posts is forbidden. This seems pretty reasonable for a group with private posts -- if you want a confidential setting, then not allowing forwarding is in keeping with that. It would also make it difficult to ask for an opinion outside the group, if one wanted to. While I'm on that topic, folks, please keep in mind that this is a public list. Anyone can read posts here -- member or not --- and search engines may or may index the content (that's more up to them). Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Sorry...but is this conversation for real? Jackie > > > I wanted to elaborate on my response to Andy.... I don't think the Dr > > turned my kid autistic. I beleve that God has the almighty power and > > to say that doctors have the power to pick and choose which kids to > > give autism is rediculous! > > If a criminal shoots someone in the head for fun, and that person dies, did God kill them > or did the criminal? > > What if the criminal was playing russian roulette and not all the chambers were loaded? > > It's really only a matter of degree here. Just because some children are tough enough > biochemically to handle toxic amounts of mercury without too much brain damage doesn't > excuse the doctor for injecting it into so many of them that some are sure to turn autistic. > Even if God decides which ones turn autistic and which don't, the doctor still has no > excuse - and in common usage, the doctor still turned those kids autistic. > > Andy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 > > > > > I wanted to elaborate on my response to Andy.... I don't think > the Dr > > > turned my kid autistic. I beleve that God has the almighty power > and > > > to say that doctors have the power to pick and choose which kids > to > > > give autism is rediculous! > > > > If a criminal shoots someone in the head for fun, and that person > dies, did God kill them > > or did the criminal? > > > > What if the criminal was playing russian roulette and not all the > chambers were loaded? > > > > It's really only a matter of degree here. Just because some > children are tough enough > > biochemically to handle toxic amounts of mercury without too much > brain damage doesn't > > excuse the doctor for injecting it into so many of them that some > are sure to turn autistic. > > Even if God decides which ones turn autistic and which don't, the > doctor still has no > > excuse - and in common usage, the doctor still turned those kids > autistic. > > > > Andy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Hello , I noticed in your letter that you mention mito dysfunction symptoms in you NT daughter. What are those symptoms? Thanks, Kelley From: P. <the.great.zambini@...> Subject: Re: [ ] Re: newbie to biomedical Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 12:05 PM Hi Sheena, This ended up being pretty long, sorry ;-) I'm going to reply to a bunch of your posts in one, if you don't mind. It sounds like you are fairly well read about a lot of this. This list will be a great resource for you. I'd love to know more about you child; his diagnosis, age, etc. I'm curious what you think was the stimulus for his diagnosis. Many here think the vaccines got their kids, as do I. Others believe it was mom's amalgam fillings and fish consumption introducing mercury in the womb. Some feel it is a combination of genetics and outside/environment al influences. Also, how old is your son? Has he had any dental work, any silver fillings? No one should chelate with mercury in their mouth. It will move it around and cause worsening symptoms. What have you notices are his biggest problems? Any yeast? Stimming? Tics? Language? 1st, don't be too hard on Andy, even if he seems hard on you. His matter of fact style was developed after years of watching parents hurt their children trusting doctors to know how to safely heal them. One of the first recommendations people make newcomers here is to get Andy's book, Amalgam Illness. As you go, if you can get past the bluntness of his style, you will find that Andy's help and chelation protocol is what is recovering many children. It is safe, low dosage and slow. Which leads me to your comment about tearing your child down with chelation. That is something that DAN! doctors and other misinformed chelation docs do. They try to give infrequent high doses of chelators which make the metals redistribute and cause more problems. Many on this board have come here for help after trying it the doctors' way. Andy is just direct, and because he doesn't want to see more children get hurt. His frustration may show, but try to not take it personally. The first Andy post I saw shocked me too. :-) You will also find many other very helpful people here, some who have adopted Andy's style, some who are a bit more tactful. You are in a good place to start though. When you do see your doctor about chelation, it is best to have as much info as you can about safe chelation and lead the doctor. Of those who still do use doctors here, many have learned to ask the doctor if they will support them using Cutler (Andy's) protocol. But, if you want to save a lot of money, this is something that you can do on your own. We do, as do many others here. We have a naturopath and basically just told him what we are doing, but never asked for his input or approval. He's quite okay with that. He uses EDTA - which is a no-no with mercury poisoning. One day, I hope to be able to educate him. We met another naturopath at a conference who is helping us with a few things, watching and anxious to see how we do. As long as your child isn't one of the very few who don't do well on ALA or DMSA when using the right dosage, this will not tear your child down following Andy's protocol. I spent many months preparing my son for the start, and though I don't regret it, found that chelation didn't really have any negative affects on him. I've watched month after month as the yeast has gone down, language and OCD have improved, and he's just all around doing so much better! In retrospect, I could have started sooner, but did what was comfortable for me. That is the best bet. If you are comfortable with it, you are bound to make better decisions. As for starting supplements, I did see that you started a few at a time. The best bet is to start only one at a time. You will be surprised what a child will react to, simple, supposedly common things become demons for our children. If you start one at a time and wait 4 or 5 days, you will be able to notice whether or not a specific supplement is a problem. It may seem like it will take longer to start this way, but it is worth it in the long run. Slow and steady, this is not a sprint but a marathon. I started my son at 17 years old, so it had been a long life for him even though mildly affected. After time on this message board, though I wanted him better fast, I knew that slow was a good thing to do. I also started my NT daughter at the same time. I had previously put supplements in place for a mito dysfunction problem. It took probably 4 weeks to get all the mito cocktail supplements on board, but what is four weeks when she had been suffering for 12 years? Now, at 14 yo, she no longer has the mito dysfunction symptoms, and we have just removed her final supplement this week. We will still chelate for quite some time though, and supplement during rounds since magnesium needs to be up for her on a round. We have finished 6 months at low dose, and are excited to see what the next 6 months brings. Also, when you see your doctor to discuss chelation, DO NOT allow him to do a challenge test. Many insist on doing this to the detriment of our children. A challenge test puts a one time large dose of chelator in your system. The chelator cannot hold all the metals it picks up until the urine test, and drops them in the body wherever. This often causes serious suffering and set backs for the child. If you want to know if your child is poisoned, the best way is to do a DDI Hair test and apply the counting rules from Andy's book " Hair Test Interpretation, " or to do a French porphyrins test I believe. Mercury hides, and pumping a bunch around the body so some can come out in the pee isn't really any more telling than a blood test. When chelation does start, the dose should be very low, not 100mg, but 1/8-1/4 mg per pound of body weight. So, if your child is 100 lbs, then you should start at no more than 25mg, and this is a bit high. We actually started at 1/16mg per pound and saw great progress. After 6 months, we are up to 1/12 mg per pound. The upper end is 1/2 mg, but that isn't where you want to start. Then, the chelator should be dosed on the half life so their is enough in the body to keep the metals moving out and not drop them. The half life for ALA (alpha lipoic acid) is 3 hours, for DMSA it is 4 hours. Those are the safest and don't require a prescription. Most here, though not all, follow that dosing for 3 days on at either 4 or 11 days off. Hope in all that you found something you could use. Blessings to you and your child on your journey! P. > _ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hello, Does anyone have a copy of the Testosterone - Lupron article that was published by Dr. Geier in Hormone Research or any documents pertaining to the protocol. It sounds interesting. Hormonal problems are probable in our daughter (autism, seizures,...). Have tried chelation and IV glutathione. Noticed that he is being trashed in Wikipedia (see Lupron Protocol). > >> > >> what do you mean the DAN protocols are dangerous? > > > > Many of the things held out as totally safe result in permanent horrible > > incurable > > worsening of some of the children they are done to - something never > > mentioned by the > > doctors whose patients I have had complain about this repeatedly to me, > > who continue to > > insist they have never seen any problems, e. g. with IV glutathione, when > > they present at > > DAN! or other conferences. > > > > For the typical result of DMPS iv's in 1 case out of 6, see > > www.dmpsbackfire.com. Those > > are all adults, but that means they're lucid, verbal and coherent and can > > describe what > > happened to them, unlike autistic children who are at risk of experiencing > > the same thing. > > > > Since DMPS injections don't actually help anyway it seems irrational to > > accept ANY risk. > > > > Remember, the pediatricians who are turning a couple of kids a month > > autistic with > > vaccinations insist those are totally safe, too. > > > > Things to avoid when going to a doctor for autism treatment: > > > > Any harmful and inappropriate chelation protocol. E. g. treatment with > > nonchelators like > > cholella, use of chelators with unknown properties like OSR or cilantro, > > use of DMPS by > > injection, or td every other day, use of EDTA in mercury toxic people, use > > of DMSA every > > day or every 8 hours, use of ALA every day, twice a day, etc. > > > > Anything and everything if they insist on doing a lot of interventions > > through a needle > > right up front, especially at the first visit. > > > > Glutathione iv's. > > > > Any time the doctor talks about a healing crisis and that you have to keep > > doing > > something even though the kid is getting worse, stop it and run away > > screaming. THIS is > > how you can make your child permanently horribly worse - the sooner you > > stop things > > that don't agree with the kid, the more likely they recover from it. > > > > Anything prescribed to everyone who walks in the door - the more the doc's > > talk about > > individualized treatment, the less they seem to actually do it. > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > ======================================================= > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Wikipedia is written by the public and changes often. IV glutathione is a bad idea. Have you tried Cutler protocol chelation? I presume your daughter has NO mercury amalgam dental fillings?! Did she regress with vaccines? Which ones? What are her primary challenges? Have you tried any of the diets (GFCF, SCD)? What does she eat? Any supps? Have you tried enzymes, antivirals, Epsom salts, NAET? What does her hair test look like? S S Re: newbie to biomedical Posted by: " jondank " jondank@... jondank Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:55 am (PST) Hello, Does anyone have a copy of the Testosterone - Lupron article that was published by Dr. Geier in Hormone Research or any documents pertaining to the protocol. It sounds interesting. Hormonal problems are probable in our daughter (autism, seizures,...). Have tried chelation and IV glutathione. Noticed that he is being trashed in Wikipedia (see Lupron Protocol). ------------------------------------------------------------ Save hundreds on Beauty School - Click here. Find Beauty Schools http://tagline.excite.com/fc/BK72PcZbtqcfjtNhCzfyfvP9zuzbtyFDMYMeexcZx0rM0m3j4e4\ HRm/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 GFCF for over 14 years. Best thing we've done. She is 18 now. Seizures are a problem now. No amalgams but she had vaccinations DPT, polio, MMR, Hib. Did DAN version of chelation protocol. Had to stop due to extreme hives reaction (whole body) that gradually developed. Also had clostrida overgrowth - presumably because of the DMSA. Basically, we have tried most of what is out there but the testosterone - Lupron would be new for us and I think there is something to it. Age one hair had lots of mercury but was all gone by age 3.5. > > Wikipedia is written by the public and changes often. IV glutathione is a bad idea. Have you tried Cutler protocol chelation? I presume your daughter has NO mercury amalgam dental fillings?! Did she regress with vaccines? Which ones? What are her primary challenges? Have you tried any of the diets (GFCF, SCD)? What does she eat? Any supps? Have you tried enzymes, antivirals, Epsom salts, NAET? What does her hair test look like? > S S > > > Re: newbie to biomedical > Posted by: " jondank " jondank@... jondank > Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:55 am (PST) > Hello, > > Does anyone have a copy of the Testosterone - Lupron article that was > published by Dr. Geier in Hormone Research or any documents > pertaining to the protocol. It sounds interesting. Hormonal problems > are probable in our daughter (autism, seizures,...). Have tried > chelation and IV glutathione. > > Noticed that he is being trashed in Wikipedia (see Lupron Protocol). > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Save hundreds on Beauty School - Click here. > Find Beauty Schools > http://tagline.excite.com/fc/BK72PcZbtqcfjtNhCzfyfvP9zuzbtyFDMYMeexcZx 0rM0m3j4e4HRm/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.