Re: Could we just be moving metals around?

[Guest guest]

18 rounds is not that long to be making that assessment from what I've

read. That is just barely over four months if done weekly. This is a

marathon not a sprint, as is often said here. I plan to have to chelate

for well over a year to see marked reduction.

P.

thedyes wrote:

>

> We have been chelating my 6 year old for 18 rounds 15mg DMSA and 12.5mg

> ALA. Her urine prophyrins test came back moderate mercury toxicity.

> Her doctor thought we might be just moving metals around instead of

> excreting them. She sugguested we use gluathione (sp?) cream. And

> maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we just be

> moving metals and not excreting and making her worse? She seems to

> tolerate the DMSA and ALA ok. We have seen some improved behavior.

> Any thoughts ? Thanks Sheila

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: P.

18 rounds is not that long to be making that assessment from what I've

read. That is just barely over four months if done weekly. This is a

marathon not a sprint, as is often said here. I plan to have to chelate

for well over a year to see marked reduction.

===> is correct, it's estimated to take between 100-300 rounds for a

complete recovery of an ASD child, that's a minimum of 2 years, so you're just

getting started.

The most important test is looking at your child's behavior, if she is

improving she's excreting metals. Don't listen to your dan! who is probably

not familiar with the normal course of chelation.

P.

thedyes wrote:

>

> We have been chelating my 6 year old for 18 rounds 15mg DMSA and 12.5mg

> ALA. Her urine prophyrins test came back moderate mercury toxicity.

> Her doctor thought we might be just moving metals around instead of

> excreting them. She sugguested we use gluathione (sp?) cream. And

> maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we just be

> moving metals and not excreting and making her worse? She seems to

> tolerate the DMSA and ALA ok. We have seen some improved behavior.

> Any thoughts ? Thanks Sheila

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> We have been chelating my 6 year old for 18 rounds 15mg DMSA and 12.5mg

> ALA.

Are you giving the doses at 3 h intervals?

Her urine prophyrins test came back moderate mercury toxicity.

> Her doctor thought we might be just moving metals around instead of

> excreting them.

Then the doctor doesn't understand how chelators work in the body and

why chelators must be taken in doses at the half life. When doses are

taken at the half life (every 3 h for ALA), and the round is continued

for a period of time (3 days, 2 nights) metals will be excreted.

> She sugguested we use gluathione (sp?) cream.

Glutathione only has one sulfur group (chelators have two) and

therefore can move metals around without them getting excreted. Many

people have reactions to the glutathione cream because of this.

And

> maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we just be

> moving metals and not excreting and making her worse? She seems to

> tolerate the DMSA and ALA ok. We have seen some improved behavior.

> Any thoughts ?

What you are doing sounds just right.

J

Thanks Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

> maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we just be

> moving metals and not excreting and making her worse?

It would be helpful to know specifically what method of chelating you

are using:

What is the dosing schedule?

What are the supporting supplements?

[Guest guest]

We are giving the dosing at 3 hour intervals even at night we start

on Friday at 6pm and end Monday morning at 6am. Thanks Sheila

> >

> > We have been chelating my 6 year old for 18 rounds 15mg DMSA and

12.5mg

> > ALA.

>

>

> Are you giving the doses at 3 h intervals?

>

>

> Her urine prophyrins test came back moderate mercury toxicity.

> > Her doctor thought we might be just moving metals around instead

of

> > excreting them.

>

>

> Then the doctor doesn't understand how chelators work in the body

and

> why chelators must be taken in doses at the half life. When doses

are

> taken at the half life (every 3 h for ALA), and the round is

continued

> for a period of time (3 days, 2 nights) metals will be excreted.

>

>

>

> > She sugguested we use gluathione (sp?) cream.

>

>

> Glutathione only has one sulfur group (chelators have two) and

> therefore can move metals around without them getting excreted.

Many

> people have reactions to the glutathione cream because of this.

>

>

> And

> > maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we just be

> > moving metals and not excreting and making her worse? She seems to

> > tolerate the DMSA and ALA ok. We have seen some improved behavior.

> > Any thoughts ?

>

>

> What you are doing sounds just right.

>

> J

>

>

>

> Thanks Sheila

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The porphyrins and hair tests are not reliable enough to make accurate

decisions about metal excretion.

I've seen them used for kids to prove that chelation is working,

meanwhile, the poor kid is getting a whole lot worse because the

incorrect chelation protocol is causing a lot of redistribution as well

as a concentration of mercury in the brain. But the doctors telling the

parents that everything is going great because the " results say so " .

Having a report in your hand and making decisions based upon it seems

like the right thing to do, and it certainly makes doctors feel more

confident in their decision making, but you have to look at the patient too.

P. wrote:

>

> 18 rounds is not that long to be making that assessment from what I've

> read. That is just barely over four months if done weekly. This is a

> marathon not a sprint, as is often said here. I plan to have to chelate

> for well over a year to see marked reduction.

> P.

>

> thedyes wrote:

> >

> > We have been chelating my 6 year old for 18 rounds 15mg DMSA and 12.5mg

> > ALA. Her urine prophyrins test came back moderate mercury toxicity.

> > Her doctor thought we might be just moving metals around instead of

> > excreting them. She sugguested we use gluathione (sp?) cream. And

> > maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we just be

> > moving metals and not excreting and making her worse? She seems to

> > tolerate the DMSA and ALA ok. We have seen some improved behavior.

> > Any thoughts ? Thanks Sheila

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we just be

> > moving metals and not excreting and making her worse?

>

> It would be helpful to know specifically what method of chelating

you

> are using:

DMSA 15mg ALA 12.5mg every 3hours 3 days on 4 days off

>

> What is the dosing schedule?

>

> What are the supporting supplements?

>Calcium 690 mg

Iodine 50 mcg

Magnesium 310 mg

Zinc 32.5 mg

Selenium 62.5 mcg

Manganese 3 mg

Chromium 112.5 mcg

Molybodenum 50 mcg

Potassium 10 mg

Lithium 0.5 mg

Vanadium 25 mcg

Boron 20 mcg

B1 17.5 mg

Riboflavin 18.5 mg

Niacinamide 15 mg

B-6 22 mg

Folic Acid 167.5 mcg

B12 145 mcg

Biotin 975 mcg

Pantothenic Acid 7.5 mg

Choline 82.5 mg

Vit A 5200 IU

Vit E 31 IU

Vit C 750 mg

DMAE 12.5 mg

Taurine 50 mg

Gluosamine Sulfate 100 mg

Co-Enzyme Q-10 7.5 mg

Grapeseed Extract 5 mg

Beta Glucan 10 mg

Alpha-ketoglutaric Acid 150 mg

Probiotics:

New Beginnings Probiotic Support Formula:

Proprietry Blend 20 Billion CFU:

Laclobacillus acidophilus

Laclobacillus paracasei

Bifidobacterium bifidum

bifidobacterium lactis

Laclobacillus rhamnosus

Saccharomyces boulardii 2 Billion CFU

[Guest guest]

Hmmm...off the top of my head, your dosing schedule is good and your

supps are good too EXCEPT IF YOU ARE GIVING THESE ONLY ONCE A DAY,

THEN YOUR C & E ARE DEFINITELY TOO LOW; major oxidative stress would

result. Are you giving the vit. C 4 times a day? If not you should

consider that. Check the archives or files section for Andy's

reccommendations for proper amounts of C & E.

When I started chelating my kids 6 years ago (my twins were in

kindergarten and my older daughter was in 2nd grade), they were given

a minimum of 500 mg Vit. C, 4 times a day and 400 IU Vit E, 2 times a

day. As they got older, I increased the Vit. C to 1 gram, 4 times a

day.

In addition, your dose of 12.5 mg ALA SEEMS HIGH TO ME. So I checked

a very old post of mine on here to recall where we started. 6.25 mg

was our starting point and if you read post #85364, you will see why.

Speaking from experience, going too high with ALA too soon, may cause

regression.

As far as the DMSA goes, that looks fine.

Btw, my three kids were mildly affected relative to many kids here;

one had some very mild autistic tendencies, but no official

diagnosis. I have only used Andy's protocol and they are all now

completely recovered and 100% NT.

FWIW, we still chelate per Andy's protocol, but not regularly like we

used to. We've done well over 100 rounds.

> >

> >

> > > maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we just

be

> > > moving metals and not excreting and making her worse?

> >

> > It would be helpful to know specifically what method of chelating

> you

> > are using:

> DMSA 15mg ALA 12.5mg every 3hours 3 days on 4 days off

> >

> > What is the dosing schedule?

> >

> > What are the supporting supplements?

> >Calcium 690 mg

> Iodine 50 mcg

> Magnesium 310 mg

> Zinc 32.5 mg

> Selenium 62.5 mcg

> Manganese 3 mg

> Chromium 112.5 mcg

> Molybodenum 50 mcg

> Potassium 10 mg

> Lithium 0.5 mg

> Vanadium 25 mcg

> Boron 20 mcg

>

> B1 17.5 mg

> Riboflavin 18.5 mg

> Niacinamide 15 mg

> B-6 22 mg

> Folic Acid 167.5 mcg

> B12 145 mcg

> Biotin 975 mcg

> Pantothenic Acid 7.5 mg

> Choline 82.5 mg

>

> Vit A 5200 IU

> Vit E 31 IU

> Vit C 750 mg

> DMAE 12.5 mg

> Taurine 50 mg

> Gluosamine Sulfate 100 mg

> Co-Enzyme Q-10 7.5 mg

> Grapeseed Extract 5 mg

> Beta Glucan 10 mg

> Alpha-ketoglutaric Acid 150 mg

>

> Probiotics:

>

> New Beginnings Probiotic Support Formula:

>

> Proprietry Blend 20 Billion CFU:

> Laclobacillus acidophilus

> Laclobacillus paracasei

> Bifidobacterium bifidum

> bifidobacterium lactis

> Laclobacillus rhamnosus

> Saccharomyces boulardii 2 Billion CFU

>

[Guest guest]

I am giving the supplements 3 to 4 times a day. I increased my

Vitamin C to 250 mg 4 times a day. Today, I increased the Vit E to

200IU. We did about 6 rounds of 7mg of ALA and my daughter seemed

fine with that so our last 4 rounds we increased to 12.5mg. We

finished our 18th round yesterday and she seemed less moody and more

focused today. She is taking Flagly(sp) for baterial issues. Our dr

wants us to try this for a month and take Kectonzole next month. She

does not have autism but ADD. I have see some gains in her moods and

ability to play with her sister more. She still is very moody

though. I have to make sure at time she does not hit her little

sister who is 2 yrs younger. Thanks for your help. Sheila

> > >

> > >

> > > > maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we

just

> be

> > > > moving metals and not excreting and making her worse?

> > >

> > > It would be helpful to know specifically what method of

chelating

> > you

> > > are using:

> > DMSA 15mg ALA 12.5mg every 3hours 3 days on 4 days off

> > >

> > > What is the dosing schedule?

> > >

> > > What are the supporting supplements?

> > >Calcium 690 mg

> > Iodine 50 mcg

> > Magnesium 310 mg

> > Zinc 32.5 mg

> > Selenium 62.5 mcg

> > Manganese 3 mg

> > Chromium 112.5 mcg

> > Molybodenum 50 mcg

> > Potassium 10 mg

> > Lithium 0.5 mg

> > Vanadium 25 mcg

> > Boron 20 mcg

> >

> > B1 17.5 mg

> > Riboflavin 18.5 mg

> > Niacinamide 15 mg

> > B-6 22 mg

> > Folic Acid 167.5 mcg

> > B12 145 mcg

> > Biotin 975 mcg

> > Pantothenic Acid 7.5 mg

> > Choline 82.5 mg

> >

> > Vit A 5200 IU

> > Vit E 31 IU

> > Vit C 750 mg

> > DMAE 12.5 mg

> > Taurine 50 mg

> > Gluosamine Sulfate 100 mg

> > Co-Enzyme Q-10 7.5 mg

> > Grapeseed Extract 5 mg

> > Beta Glucan 10 mg

> > Alpha-ketoglutaric Acid 150 mg

> >

> > Probiotics:

> >

> > New Beginnings Probiotic Support Formula:

> >

> > Proprietry Blend 20 Billion CFU:

> > Laclobacillus acidophilus

> > Laclobacillus paracasei

> > Bifidobacterium bifidum

> > bifidobacterium lactis

> > Laclobacillus rhamnosus

> > Saccharomyces boulardii 2 Billion CFU

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like you have a good start. Just stay with it, fill her with

loads of antioxidants and, and keep a watchful eye.

Oh, and I didn't see any EFA's (omega-3 & 6) like flax or fish oil

(3) and EPO or borage (6) on your list. Have you considered their

role in repairing cell membranes and brain healing? You might want to

consider it. Speaking from personal experience, I think they play an

important role in healing due to toxicity as well as the stress of

chelation itself.

FWIW, I made many small mistakes along the way, but by far the worse

was increasing ALA too high too soon. If she's not tolerating a

dosage increase, by all means go back down to an acceptable dosage.

Just be careful with that. :-)

Good luck!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we

> just

> > be

> > > > > moving metals and not excreting and making her worse?

> > > >

> > > > It would be helpful to know specifically what method of

> chelating

> > > you

> > > > are using:

> > > DMSA 15mg ALA 12.5mg every 3hours 3 days on 4 days off

> > > >

> > > > What is the dosing schedule?

> > > >

> > > > What are the supporting supplements?

> > > >Calcium 690 mg

> > > Iodine 50 mcg

> > > Magnesium 310 mg

> > > Zinc 32.5 mg

> > > Selenium 62.5 mcg

> > > Manganese 3 mg

> > > Chromium 112.5 mcg

> > > Molybodenum 50 mcg

> > > Potassium 10 mg

> > > Lithium 0.5 mg

> > > Vanadium 25 mcg

> > > Boron 20 mcg

> > >

> > > B1 17.5 mg

> > > Riboflavin 18.5 mg

> > > Niacinamide 15 mg

> > > B-6 22 mg

> > > Folic Acid 167.5 mcg

> > > B12 145 mcg

> > > Biotin 975 mcg

> > > Pantothenic Acid 7.5 mg

> > > Choline 82.5 mg

> > >

> > > Vit A 5200 IU

> > > Vit E 31 IU

> > > Vit C 750 mg

> > > DMAE 12.5 mg

> > > Taurine 50 mg

> > > Gluosamine Sulfate 100 mg

> > > Co-Enzyme Q-10 7.5 mg

> > > Grapeseed Extract 5 mg

> > > Beta Glucan 10 mg

> > > Alpha-ketoglutaric Acid 150 mg

> > >

> > > Probiotics:

> > >

> > > New Beginnings Probiotic Support Formula:

> > >

> > > Proprietry Blend 20 Billion CFU:

> > > Laclobacillus acidophilus

> > > Laclobacillus paracasei

> > > Bifidobacterium bifidum

> > > bifidobacterium lactis

> > > Laclobacillus rhamnosus

> > > Saccharomyces boulardii 2 Billion CFU

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

With my recent personal experience with detoxing, I can attest to the

fact that the body could have difficulty in releasing the toxins being

detoxed..

I have been treating a case of ringworm...which me and my naturopath

seem to think came to be because my lymphatic system was congested..

My body was unable to release the toxins in the proper way..

I am taking more supplements to help the detox.. We found out that my

son wasnt releasing the toxins as effectively also..so he is on some

other homeopathic detox stuff..

R

>

> We have been chelating my 6 year old for 18 rounds 15mg DMSA and

12.5mg

> ALA. Her urine prophyrins test came back moderate mercury toxicity.

> Her doctor thought we might be just moving metals around instead of

> excreting them. She sugguested we use gluathione (sp?) cream. And

> maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we just be

> moving metals and not excreting and making her worse? She seems to

> tolerate the DMSA and ALA ok. We have seen some improved behavior.

> Any thoughts ? Thanks Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks. We do give her fish oil 2 capsules a day EPA 198mg DHA 193

mg.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > maybe we need to change our method of chelating. Could we

> > just

> > > be

> > > > > > moving metals and not excreting and making her worse?

> > > > >

> > > > > It would be helpful to know specifically what method of

> > chelating

> > > > you

> > > > > are using:

> > > > DMSA 15mg ALA 12.5mg every 3hours 3 days on 4 days off

> > > > >

> > > > > What is the dosing schedule?

> > > > >

> > > > > What are the supporting supplements?

> > > > >Calcium 690 mg

> > > > Iodine 50 mcg

> > > > Magnesium 310 mg

> > > > Zinc 32.5 mg

> > > > Selenium 62.5 mcg

> > > > Manganese 3 mg

> > > > Chromium 112.5 mcg

> > > > Molybodenum 50 mcg

> > > > Potassium 10 mg

> > > > Lithium 0.5 mg

> > > > Vanadium 25 mcg

> > > > Boron 20 mcg

> > > >

> > > > B1 17.5 mg

> > > > Riboflavin 18.5 mg

> > > > Niacinamide 15 mg

> > > > B-6 22 mg

> > > > Folic Acid 167.5 mcg

> > > > B12 145 mcg

> > > > Biotin 975 mcg

> > > > Pantothenic Acid 7.5 mg

> > > > Choline 82.5 mg

> > > >

> > > > Vit A 5200 IU

> > > > Vit E 31 IU

> > > > Vit C 750 mg

> > > > DMAE 12.5 mg

> > > > Taurine 50 mg

> > > > Gluosamine Sulfate 100 mg

> > > > Co-Enzyme Q-10 7.5 mg

> > > > Grapeseed Extract 5 mg

> > > > Beta Glucan 10 mg

> > > > Alpha-ketoglutaric Acid 150 mg

> > > >

> > > > Probiotics:

> > > >

> > > > New Beginnings Probiotic Support Formula:

> > > >

> > > > Proprietry Blend 20 Billion CFU:

> > > > Laclobacillus acidophilus

> > > > Laclobacillus paracasei

> > > > Bifidobacterium bifidum

> > > > bifidobacterium lactis

> > > > Laclobacillus rhamnosus

> > > > Saccharomyces boulardii 2 Billion CFU

> > > >

> > >

> >

>