Finally!!!

[Guest guest]

Been awhile since I've been here or posted. I'm a 36 yo male who has

been suffering from low libido for approx. 10 years. Gone thru several

dr.'s and multiple rounds of tests (TT, FT, Estradiol, etc.) always in

the borderline to slightly ok levels and noone ever wanted to treat me.

Finally, sent a letter to EVERY endo in my area detailing my symptoms

and previous test results - found one that was willing to meet with

me. Couple rounds of tests came back the same - borderline low T 250 -

450 range. I have been on Propecia for a few years - BUT the symptoms

were around well before I ever started on Propecia. My endo said " go

off the Propecia for 4 months and we'll test again and see. " Well i

went off for 5 months had blood work done and just heard my Total T

was 299 and LH, Estradiol, LH were " normal " . I'll find out tomorrow

what normal means.

FINALLY, endo is willing to do something - put me on Androgel. I'm

curious what my LH level is as I have always been intrigued by HCG -

for convenience and also vainly, I have heard that Androgel is more

likely to raise my DHT levels and further promote my hair loss.

Nevertheless, I am SO EXCITED to finally, be doing something about

this.

Any thoughts??? Thanks to this group or I NEVER would have been so

insistent with my doctors. THANKS TO ALL!

[Guest guest]

Yes kind of first you need to test your spirm to be sure it is good. You don't

konw if your Primary or Secondary. And there are test that can be done before

going on treatment. To tell if your one or the other or both. Men that are

primary have dam low sprim and some have none. So if your sprim is tested and

it's low have some frozen going on treatment will shut down your Testis. So it

is a gamble your Dr. may well have done this but do you what to be his first

that it does not work. Besides it's not up to him it is up to you. I would

rather be safe then sorry.

Read this link to the AACE Guildlines about testing.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

There are two test that come to mind one is the Clomid Stim. test and the

other is the HCG stim.

The only way I know of doing this making a kid is to go off T meds and try to

start your HTPA axis up again doing things like Clomid or HCG. Ether way your

going to crash way down low on your T levels and believe me this is not fun I

got so dam sick doing this for a test that I was off work for one month.

Phil

wondering2one <hopefully1000@...> wrote:

Thanks - all those tests have been done. The only one debatable is

secondary vs. primary, as LH tends to fall in the middle of the

ranges. Liver tests, etc have all been done.

Regarding fertility, my endo said if that ever is needed - adding

HCG will bring that capability back - said he has done plenty of

times. Do you doubt this?

> >

> > >I've had the full battery of tests - ad nauseum. Prolaction

> noraml,

> > >E2 normal. LH slightly low to normal -

> >

> > Sorry. I missed the posts. What are they calling " normalE2 " and

low

> > normal LH?

> >

> >

> >

> > > this coupled with my age (25-

> > >26) at onset of symptoms make me think of HCG. Shippen

mentioend

> > >thta usually in younger men, it's secondary. So why not try to

> get

> > >the boys working vs. shutting em down. My endo doesn't see the

> > >point, but has mentioned some willingness. I'm not sure he is

up

> on

> > >self administration of the shots and has alos questioned who

> would

> > >pay for the shots. I though I herd if properly indicated on the

> > >prescription that Insurance should cover. Is this correct?

> >

> > I think they view HCG as fertility treatment and most insurance

> > doesn't cover that. Though I hear the HCG is cheap these days.

> >

> > I recently learned from my insurer though that medicaid or

medicare

> > has ruled that T should be covered for office injections. (My

> insurer

> > tried to bill me for office injections saying I should have been

> > self-injecting - without ever offering me that option. )

> >

> > >Anyone have success on HCG? or should i juts try the Andogel

and

> see

> > >how it goes.

> >

> >

> > ________________

> > I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

***- the nurse started going through the list telling me everything was 'normal', including free T4 which was 12.1 (range 10-23). Then she got to my TSH, which was 6.1 > I know it might sound insane(!!) but I am soooo happy!! > > By the way, if anyone has any advice regarding how I should handle my meeting with the GP other than me saying 'I told you so...' lol, I would be really grateful xxx

Congratulations on getting diagnosed, - you must be elated. I know, it's a sad old world where we feel happy to have been diagnosed ill ...

Well, apart from the 'told you so', you could try to push your luck and ask if you could now be tested for autoantibodies (TPO and TgAB) - He will probably grant you the TPO check only, but you never know. - But perhaps the autoantibodies have already been checked amongst the pronounced "normal" stuff ? - Well, do remember to ask your GP for a copy of everything that has been done (inclusive of ref ranges). Just tell him you are keeping a health file for yourself.

I don't know how you feel about thyroid medication, whether you'd want to be treated with Armour or are happy with taking Levothyroxine. My advice would be to at first go with the Levothyroxine, for the simple reason to have a "proper" treatment plan on your medical notes. It looks better to first try the conventional route should there ever be an argument later on - and for all you know, it might work fine for you. You can always change over at a later stage if it doesn't. The most important thing you have now achieved - you have been officially diagnosed and nobody can take that away from you.

Welcome to the club

[Guest guest]

It is excellent news that you have a formal diagnosis. It took me 10 years to

get that far, so it really is quite an achievement!

Has your GP said that you will be started on treatment soon? I sincerely hope

that they don't do what my endocrinologist did, when I had a T4 of 9 and TSH

between 6 and 7, and refuse treatment until my TSH had risen to 10. Fortunately

he discharged me to my GP who diagnosed me instead and started me on a trial of

levothyroxine.

Hope it runs smoothly for you now!

Tracey

[Guest guest]

*** I will be really upset if he suggests continuing to monitor things!!> I had an antibodies check last year - which came back significant at 832, I am not sure if that is relevant to your question regarding autoantibodies??

Hi ,

That certainly is VERY relevant! As I have just posted to and P. in Australia .... the presence of positive TPO and/or TgAB autoantibodies *alone* (never mind other parameters) is diagnostic for Hashimoto's disease (ref. Dr. Peatfield) .... and 832 is a very high number.

You should have been treated a long time ago just on the strength of your autoantibodies ! Don't let him/her get away with further 'monitoring' ... - be assertive and *demand* treatment if it is not offered.

love,

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone!!

Well, I have just returned from my GP with good news!!

He explained that all of my results had come back and it suggested that my

thyroid was underactive - he still used the term borderline (why do I find this

word so annoying!!??) as the TSH is only slightly raised at 6.1 - however, he

does seem to think that this could be linked to my feeling tired all the time,

heavy periods, etc.

So, I have been prescribed 50mg of Eltroxin. I have to go back and have another

blood test in 6 weeks time and if necessary the dosage adjusted and have blood

tests every 6 weeks til they are happy with my results and then go back every 3

months to be monitored.

Can anyone give me an idea as to what levels they would consider as

'satisfactory' - i.e if my levels were to come back down to around 5, would they

consider that this was acceptable - even though I know I still felt just as

bad??

He's told me that it could take as long as 12 months for it to have an effect,

which is a bit daunting - but I am happy that there is a glimmer of light at the

end of the tunnel now and that I am finally being taken seriously!

Incidently I did show him my rash (although I didn't suggest it maybe related to

thyroid) and he thinks it is a fungal infection (yuk!!) I also asked him to feel

my neck (he probably felt like throttling me at that stage lol) but he said it

was normal (so I guess it's just a lump of fat!! lol)

Anyway, thank you all for being there!! I feel that I have made some friends on

here and feel so grateful that people have taken time out of their busy lives to

offer me guidance and advice. It means more than you could possibly realise!

> Hi ,

> I hope this is the start of a better future for you , but we

> are here if you have more questions.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Well done and welcome to officially joining us thyroidians.

Just as your GP said - you will now take your 50 mcg of Eltroxine for the next 6 weeks. You may - or may not - feel better after taking it for 2 weeks or so, but it will take about 6 weeks to fully get into your system. - Then you go for another blood test (remember to always ask for copies) and that will probably tell you that you need an increase. One vital point - remember NOT to take your thyroxine on the day of your blood test !!! This is very important. In fact, to be on the safe side and to ensure that you will get an increase, I would leave out 2 dosages (you can take it immediately after the blood has been drawn).

***Can anyone give me an idea as to what levels they would consider as'satisfactory' - i.e if my levels were to come back down to around 5, would theyconsider that this was acceptable - even though I know I still felt just asbad??

A TSH figure around the 5 mark would not be acceptable. You are ultimately aiming for a TSH between 0.something and 1.0, and your FT4 (since that is all that gets measured these days) should be extremely close to the top of the ref range. Even if it were slightly above, that would be fine - the all important factor is how you are feeling. Everybody is different, but as long as you do not experience hyPERthyroid symptoms (shortness of breath, palpitations, etc), you are not overmedicated. Most people finish up between 100 mcg and 150 mcg, but that's only a guideline.

Your GP is right, it could well take about a year before you are 'back to normal'... but you should be feeling better and better along the way. If you were not, then something isn't working.

If your GP thinks your rash was a fungal infection, you better do the Candida spit test, to see if you are clear. Somehow I don't quite buy the rash being a *topical* fungus... it went away all by itself, didn't it? - and fungal infections don't behave like that in my experience. It might however have been due to systemic Candida, which is yeast overgrowth in the blood (not on the skin surface) . I would not dismiss the rash being due to a malfunctioning thyroid gland. Low thyroid and any kind of skin disorder go hand in hand.

Best of luck with your medication. Don't expect miracles though - you did not get ill over night, and you won't get well over night.... but you *will* get well.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks (AGAIN!!) for the advise - I will no doubt be back in 6 weeks time and

posting my latest results for your guidance!!

It was quite funny, he asked me about family history (which I have been told by

a different GP in the same practise means nothing!!) And I told him about my

(half) sister having hashimotos, but reminded him that the practice had ruled

this out for me....he confirmed that I do not have hashimotos as I would have

been hyper prior to becoming hypo??? But I didn't quibble - I took the

prescription and ran!! lol

I'm going to start them in them morning, as per pack instructions - although it

was tempting to start straight away!! And I will definately take your advise

about not taking them for a couple of days prior to the blood test.

Thanks again xxx

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks (AGAIN!!) for the advise - I will no doubt be back in 6 weeks time and

posting my latest results for your guidance!!

It was quite funny, he asked me about family history (which I have been told by

a different GP in the same practise means nothing!!) And I told him about my

(half) sister having hashimotos, but reminded him that the practice had ruled

this out for me....he confirmed that I do not have hashimotos as I would have

been hyper prior to becoming hypo??? But I didn't quibble - I took the

prescription and ran!! lol

I'm going to start them in them morning, as per pack instructions - although it

was tempting to start straight away!! And I will definately take your advise

about not taking them for a couple of days prior to the blood test.

Thanks again xxx

[Guest guest]

So, when I saw this GP yesterday and he asked

me about family history I thought it was somewhat funny and told him about my

sister and again queried the hashimotos - but he confirmed I DON'T have this as

I would have been 'hyper' first....

Perhaps your GP needs to read further about Hashimoto's disease http://www.medicinenet.com/hashimotos_thyroiditis/article.htm

The only other result that came back relating

to my thyroid was free T4 - 12.1 (range 10-23) so I don't now, if at all how

relevant this is.

This is the free thyroxine level that is in your blood. Without

thyroid hormone replacement it should be about the half way in the range - so

your FT4 should be around 16 - 17. If you are taking thyroid hormone

replacement, it should be in the upper third of the reference range. Your FT4

is too low and shows you are not making sufficient.

Basically he has told me that the reason I now

have an underactive thyroid is 'just one of those things' - age related and the

fact I have had children - I have 4 girls, aged 13, 11, 9 & 7....so with

him saying this it still makes me wonder if I have been treated for depression

and given anti-depressants that I didn't need for nearly 5 years!! But I guess

I will truly never know - all I know is that since I made the decision to STOP

taking them, I actually don't feel so 'insane'!! lol I think they were

completely messing with my head!

It could be age related, it could be that you have children, it

could be that it is caused through antibodies destroying your thyroid, but it

matters not the cause, it matters that you are hypothyroid and you need thyroid

hormone replacement. When doctors don't know what their patient is suffering

and when their blood results are within the normal TFT reference range, then

they turn to antidepressants - an easy cop out - and one that is so wrong. Once

on the correct thyroid hormone replacement depression lifts. You need both T4

and T3 to make the brain function - lack of these cause feelings of depression.

I will also keep an eye on this swelling in my

neck!! My hubby can feel it, so can my other sister - I do tend (not pleasant)

to gag an awful lot but mainly when I am stressed, I do suffer from terrible

anxiety I also find swallowing very uncomfortable on occasions - but the

feeling on swallowing isn't in my throat - it feels further down - sometimes I

have terrible pain and have to drink lots of water to 'help' whatever I am

eating go down and this hurts!! But again, I think this is more to do with

anxiety - and this is what my GP thinks.

You need to tell your GP you would like a referral to an

endocrinologist who specialises in thyroid disease. Put this in writing and ask

for your letter to be placed in your medical notes. It might be nothing, but

you can't take the risk. Catching anything at the start is always better. You

should not be leaving the symptoms you describe to be ignored. A

lump in the front of the neck should never be ignored, and if others can feel

it but your GP can't, then it needs professional examination. Do you have a persistent

cough or any swollen glands in the neck?

Luv - Sheila

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18:03:00

[Guest guest]

***....And I told him about my(half) sister having hashimotos, but reminded him that the practice had ruledthis out for me....he confirmed that I do not have hashimotos as I would havebeen hyper prior to becoming hypo??? But I didn't quibble - I took theprescription and ran!! lol

Good Lord ..... whatever next?? So now it is a requirement to become hyper before getting a diagnosis of Hashimoto's and family history and autoantibodies are co-incidental ..... right, got it!

You know, somebody should save all those medical brainstorms from our respective doctors and write a book with it. I bet it would become a bestseller !

You did well , to take the prescription and run .... the important thing is that you are now officially diagnosed (hopefully he told you about now being exempt from paying prescription charges) and that diagnosis can't be taken away from you. Mind you, I wonder what he put down as diagnosis, since he's "ruled out" Hashimoto's <G>... but please don't get confused in your own mind... you do have positive autoantibodies and therefore you *do* suffer from Hashimoto's disease.

Remember.... when you take your medication first thing in the morning - it has to be a full hour before breakfast. This is because thyroxine is best absorbed by an empty stomach. T4 binds to calcium, iron and soya and if you had already had your breakfast or eat too early after taking the pill, you will downgrade the effectiveness of the hormone considerably.

You could experiment and take your T4 last thing at night (provided you do not eat late - you'd need at least 3 hours after your dinner). I used to do that and for me it worked like a sleeping pill... had a really good and undisturbed nights sleep and woke up refreshed. On the downside (for me) I felt the brain fog setting in from about 19.00 onwards and I could not longer think straight... but that's me, and everybody is different.

Good luck.

xx

[Guest guest]

You know, somebody should save all those medical

brainstorms from our respective doctors and write a book with it. I

bet it would become a bestseller !

We keep on mentioning this and needed somebody to 'gather them all

up' - this forum messages must be full of such 'medical brainstorms'. Any

takers?

Remember.... when you take your medication first

thing in the morning - it has to be a full hour before breakfast. This is

because thyroxine is best absorbed by an empty stomach. T4 binds to calcium,

iron and soya and if you had already had your breakfast or eat too early

after taking the pill, you will downgrade the effectiveness of the hormone

considerably.

Also, you may not be aware that a small study was carried out to

find out whether taking all your thyroxine at night might work better than

during the day. The individuals taking part in the study reported getting a

better more relaxed sleep and feeling better during the day. Many people now

take their thyroxine when they go to bed. As said, try the experiment

and see if this works for you.

Luv - Sheila

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found in this incoming message.

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18:03:00

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Good news indeed! A good doc would be aiming for you to feel

well rather than some blood test number, but 90% of healthy folk have a

TSH of around 1.0 so that is a good place to aim for. You should feel

benenfits long before the year is out, but don't try to do too much too

soon- remember your body has a lot of healing for you. Remember to ask

doc to write 'eltroxin' on the prescription as not everyone does so well

on the generics and getting a different manufacturer every month can

upset things.

Have a look at the files and check on the vitamins and minerals that

can help absorption and use of thyroid hormones- in the country we tend

to be short on zinc and selenium as they are low in the soils here and

both are vital for thyroid function.

Subject: Re: FINALLY!!!

Hi Everyone!!

Well, I have just returned from my GP with good news!!

So, I have been prescribed 50mg of Eltroxin. I have to go back and have

another blood test in 6 weeks time and if necessary the dosage adjusted

and have blood tests every 6 weeks til they are happy with my results

and then go back every 3 months to be monitored.

Can anyone give me an idea as to what levels they would consider as

'satisfactory' -

He's told me that it could take as long as 12 months for it to have an

effect, which is a bit daunting - but I am happy that there is a glimmer

of light at the end of the tunnel now and that I am finally being taken

seriously!

> Hi ,

> I hope this is the start of a better future for you , but

we

> are here if you have more questions.

>

>

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

That would be great, especially with amusing cartoons. :-)

Miriam

> You know, somebody should save all those medical brainstorms from our

respective doctors and write a book with it. I bet it would become a bestseller

!

>

> We keep on mentioning this and needed somebody to 'gather them all up' - this

forum messages must be full of such 'medical brainstorms'. Any takers?