Re: New here--I am the wife of a man who has Low Normal Testosterone levels...advice

[Guest guest]

Here is a study and the link to the study, hope this helps.

Steve

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...RVAbstractPlus<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.go\

v/pubmed/11693547?ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_Results\

Panel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>

Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on laevator ani muscle in both

uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats.Ang HH,

Cheang HS.

School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden,

11800, Penang, Malaysia. hhang@...

It has been reported that Eurycoma longifolia Jack commonly known as Tongkat

Ali has gained notoreity as a symbol of man's ego and strength by the

Malaysian men because it increases male virility and sexual prowess during

sexual activities. As such, the effects of 200, 400 and 800 mg/kg of

butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack were

studied on the laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and

testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats after dosing them for 12

consecutive weeks. Results showed that 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water

and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack significantly increased

(p<0.05) the leavator ani muscle to 58.56+/-1.22, 58.23+/-0.31, 60.21

+/-0.86 and 62.35 +/-0.98 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared

with the control (untreated) in the uncastrated intact male rats and

49.23+/-0.82, 52.23+/-0.36, 50.21+/-0.66 and 52.35+/-0.58 mg/100 g body

weight, respectively, when compared to control (untreated) in the

testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats. Hence, the

pro-androgenic effect as shown by this study further supported the

traditional use of this plant as an aphrodisiac.

On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 10:52 AM, overrunwithsons

<no_reply >wrote:

> He is seeing an Encronologist right now, but I do not think she will

> do anything. He is 45, thin, total levels was 344, 503, 323, 336 in

> past month, one of the Free Testosterone levels was BELOW normal

> range. Then 2 other times was within low normal range. I don't

> believe he has ever been a High testosterone man, never been

> aggressive, so we have no idea what his levels was in his youth,

> unfortunetly, to compare. He has less energy, was getting headaches

> for while, those quit, snoring, he gets sweaty at night sometimes,

> loss of sex drive (although we can have sex every other day if I

> initiate & get him started). If I want more than this, he sometimes

> has trouble.

> I am really getting down about all of this, because I know these

> low normal numbers are not good for his health, he will have a greater

> chance of getting Type 2 diabetes (which is in his family), feeling

> like an old man can never be a good thing. How does one find a Doctor

> who will take your symptoms more seriously over your numbers, and will

> your insurance company pay for the Test treatment if LOW NORMAL? We

> have Aetna Insurance. Has anyone here tried TongKat Ali herb (also

> called Long Jack)for Raising Testosterone?

>

> .

>

>

>

--

[Guest guest]

Hello and welcome! You'll receive lots of good information on this

board. I'll work backward to forward (I don't have any experience with

the herbal rememdies).

Yes, insurance will pay for TRT in men even if the levels aren't

clinically below the labs range. The insurance companies typically

don't even see that information.

Finding a doc, well now, that can be a challenge. It took me three

times before I found a doc that would treat the symptoms. It's much

more, as you're finding out, a game of feeling rather than of numbers.

It's impossible to know what your husband's threshold values are/were

before symptoms of low testosterone would begin. I was very similar to

him symptomatically. I could get erections but had no interest at all

in sexual activity. I had night sweats and anxiety and just felt very

old and dead.

Many of us here know these symptoms far too well. I was in the low

normal range for both total and free testosterone but as it turns out

it was low enough to be symptomatic.

It goes without saying you need to find a doc who will listen to the

symptoms. A urologist was finally the doc who helped me and I don't

have much experience with endos. The general consensus on this board

is that they're not very good at treating hypogonadism. Your husband

needs the following tests, in the morning:

Total Testosterone

Free Testosterone

SHBG (free testosterone will be calculated based on this number)

E2 (estradiol)

Those are the basics. I would also ask for:

prolactin

TSH

Total and free T4

reverse T3

CBC

Complete metabolic panel

If you look in the files section on the left it will tell you what

tests you should receive.

You will receive a lot of good advice and our thoughts are with you

because each of us has been there.

>

> He is seeing an Encronologist right now, but I do not think she will

> do anything. He is 45, thin, total levels was 344, 503, 323, 336 in

> past month, one of the Free Testosterone levels was BELOW normal

> range. Then 2 other times was within low normal range. I don't

> believe he has ever been a High testosterone man, never been

> aggressive, so we have no idea what his levels was in his youth,

> unfortunetly, to compare. He has less energy, was getting headaches

> for while, those quit, snoring, he gets sweaty at night sometimes,

> loss of sex drive (although we can have sex every other day if I

> initiate & get him started). If I want more than this, he sometimes

> has trouble.

> I am really getting down about all of this, because I know these

> low normal numbers are not good for his health, he will have a greater

> chance of getting Type 2 diabetes (which is in his family), feeling

> like an old man can never be a good thing. How does one find a Doctor

> who will take your symptoms more seriously over your numbers, and will

> your insurance company pay for the Test treatment if LOW NORMAL? We

> have Aetna Insurance. Has anyone here tried TongKat Ali herb (also

> called Long Jack)for Raising Testosterone?

>

[Guest guest]

You are right, those are low normal T levels, and most doctors won't

treat that.

If he were overweight I'd suspect high E2 levels due to

aromatization, but a thin man wouldn't have those problems.

Other than improving general health by getting adequate, sleep,

exercise and proper diet, my main recommendation is an occasional

dose of Cialis.

I've been on T for 14 months and added Arimidex to keep down my

estrogen, but still had occasional ED problems. Levitra didn't help

much, but the 20 mg Cialis.... now there is a wonder drug.

Unlike Viagra and Levitra, there is no pressure to perform and use it

or lose it, since it works for 36 hours or longer in my case.

>

> He is seeing an Encronologist right now, but I do not think she

will

> do anything. He is 45, thin, total levels was 344, 503, 323, 336

in

> past month, one of the Free Testosterone levels was BELOW normal

> range. Then 2 other times was within low normal range. I don't

> believe he has ever been a High testosterone man, never been

> aggressive, so we have no idea what his levels was in his youth,

> unfortunetly, to compare. He has less energy, was getting

headaches

> for while, those quit, snoring, he gets sweaty at night sometimes,

> loss of sex drive (although we can have sex every other day if I

> initiate & get him started). If I want more than this, he

sometimes

> has trouble.

> I am really getting down about all of this, because I know these

> low normal numbers are not good for his health, he will have a

greater

> chance of getting Type 2 diabetes (which is in his family), feeling

> like an old man can never be a good thing. How does one find a

Doctor

> who will take your symptoms more seriously over your numbers, and

will

> your insurance company pay for the Test treatment if LOW NORMAL?

We

> have Aetna Insurance. Has anyone here tried TongKat Ali herb

(also

> called Long Jack)for Raising Testosterone?

>

[Guest guest]

The higher test result might have been a fluke but if it isn't then

there is some encouragement.

Stress, diet, sleep, physical conditioning can all affect our

testosterone levels. I would look more into diets that encourage T

levels. And definitely be tested for estrogen. It would be wise

to research diets that do not increase estrogen in men. You can

find diet information in your searching on the internet. You might

also try 200 mg of DIM per day to help with estrogen if the blood

work shows it is high.

The symptoms are more troubling than the actual T levels that you

referenced. So clearly something needs to be done.

If the more natural stimulus of T (diet, good weight control, stress

management) do not help then TRT may be the only course of action.

But it is not an easy, or even journey. While I would never go

back, I would also make sure that I have exhausted my natural

abilities to reduce symptoms and raise T.

I experienced all the symptoms you describe and it is no fun living

that way. I wish you the best.

Darrell

>

> He is seeing an Encronologist right now, but I do not think she

will

> do anything. He is 45, thin, total levels was 344, 503, 323, 336

in

> past month, one of the Free Testosterone levels was BELOW normal

> range. Then 2 other times was within low normal range. I don't

> believe he has ever been a High testosterone man, never been

> aggressive, so we have no idea what his levels was in his youth,

> unfortunetly, to compare. He has less energy, was getting

headaches

> for while, those quit, snoring, he gets sweaty at night sometimes,

> loss of sex drive (although we can have sex every other day if I

> initiate & get him started). If I want more than this, he

sometimes

> has trouble.

> I am really getting down about all of this, because I know these

> low normal numbers are not good for his health, he will have a

greater

> chance of getting Type 2 diabetes (which is in his family), feeling

> like an old man can never be a good thing. How does one find a

Doctor

> who will take your symptoms more seriously over your numbers, and

will

> your insurance company pay for the Test treatment if LOW NORMAL?

We

> have Aetna Insurance. Has anyone here tried TongKat Ali herb

(also

> called Long Jack)for Raising Testosterone?

>

[Guest guest]

Doctor Crisler is a name to mention. There is

a forum (it is neither a Usenet forum nor

a forum)on which he is one the main players that

you should look. Abraham taler may also

be someone who is useful. Understand all

I know of this Doc is what I've read in his

medical journal articles. And I may have

slightly mispelled his last name.

>

> He is seeing an Encronologist right now, but I do not think she

will

> do anything. He is 45, thin, total levels was 344, 503, 323, 336

in

> past month, one of the Free Testosterone levels was BELOW normal

> range. Then 2 other times was within low normal range. I don't

> believe he has ever been a High testosterone man, never been

> aggressive, so we have no idea what his levels was in his youth,

> unfortunetly, to compare. He has less energy, was getting

headaches

> for while, those quit, snoring, he gets sweaty at night sometimes,

> loss of sex drive (although we can have sex every other day if I

> initiate & get him started). If I want more than this, he

sometimes

> has trouble.

> I am really getting down about all of this, because I know these

> low normal numbers are not good for his health, he will have a

greater

> chance of getting Type 2 diabetes (which is in his family), feeling

> like an old man can never be a good thing. How does one find a

Doctor

> who will take your symptoms more seriously over your numbers, and

will

> your insurance company pay for the Test treatment if LOW NORMAL?

We

> have Aetna Insurance. Has anyone here tried TongKat Ali herb

(also

> called Long Jack)for Raising Testosterone?

>