Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:43:44 -0000, you wrote: >Hi Phil, >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should not. I >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm using >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but have >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any real >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little longer to >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying it >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this earlier >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T passing through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was too thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as possible. It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on both arms, abdomen and then thighs. I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by sticking to my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I try to avoid the midriff if I can. On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I do two packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and one in the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the spike some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Hi Dan yes you need to just spread it over the area and you can rub it a little but not well you should let dry from wet. If was in the insert that came with the box of Androgel. Phil " opus1.rm " <no_reply > wrote: Hi Phil, I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should not. I was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm using Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but have decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any real rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little longer to dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying it to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this earlier this year and the answer was no.) -Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Yes if you see white streaks you did not spread it out far enough. Phil retrogrouch@... wrote: On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:43:44 -0000, you wrote: >Hi Phil, >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should not. I >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm using >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but have >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any real >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little longer to >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying it >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this earlier >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T passing through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was too thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as possible. It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on both arms, abdomen and then thighs. I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by sticking to my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I try to avoid the midriff if I can. On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I do two packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and one in the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the spike some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 I was wondering if that is the case, leaving it thicker means less T being absorbed. Also, when I take a shower the next morning, I notice more residue left on my shoulders. Doing 10 grams a day, 5 on each shoulder, can be a challenge. Since I'm using a pump dispenser, I find it easier to put 3 grams on each shoulder and 2 on my abs (I have a little fat on my abs, not alot). It doesn't seem as thick that way, but I worry that it is giving me a bigger T spike and creating more E2 in the process. I could try applying more than once a day but that seems like a real pain in the butt, and if I put it on too late at night it can keep me awake. The instructions say to only apply to the " shoulders, upper arms or abs " , have you noticed any problems applying to your thighs? My thighs may be a little to hairy for that. -Dan > > >Hi Phil, > >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it > >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should not. I > >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm using > >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but have > >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any real > >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little longer to > >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying it > >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this earlier > >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > > > I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T passing > through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was too > thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as possible. > It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on both > arms, abdomen and then thighs. > > I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by sticking to > my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I try to > avoid the midriff if I can. > > On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I do two > packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and one in > the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the spike > some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > > - - - - > Just another albino black sheep > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Thanks Phil for the reply. I read the insert and couldn't find where it said anything about rubbing it in. It only says to put it in your palm and apply it. I'm sure it doesn't really matter too much as long as it gets on your skin, I was just wondering where it was you found the info saying it shouldn't be rubbed in. -Dan > Hi Phil, > I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it > should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should not. I > was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm using > Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but have > decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any real > rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little longer to > dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying it > to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this earlier > this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 If I have time I will look for the insert that came with my Box's of Andorgel in the packets. Phil " opus1.rm " <no_reply > wrote: Thanks Phil for the reply. I read the insert and couldn't find where it said anything about rubbing it in. It only says to put it in your palm and apply it. I'm sure it doesn't really matter too much as long as it gets on your skin, I was just wondering where it was you found the info saying it shouldn't be rubbed in. -Dan > Hi Phil, > I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it > should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should not. I > was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm using > Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but have > decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any real > rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little longer to > dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying it > to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this earlier > this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Geez...10grams per day, even with insurance has to be expensive and loaded with E2 conversion issues. I'm very happy to have been switched to Cypionate shots...once I get " tuned " to that stuff, I think life will just be a little more convenient and stable. > Re: Androgel application > > >I was wondering if that is the case, leaving it thicker means less T >being absorbed. Also, when I take a shower the next morning, I >notice more residue left on my shoulders. Doing 10 grams a day, 5 >on each shoulder, can be a challenge. Since I'm using a pump >dispenser, I find it easier to put 3 grams on each shoulder and 2 on >my abs (I have a little fat on my abs, not alot). It doesn't seem >as thick that way, but I worry that it is giving me a bigger T spike >and creating more E2 in the process. I could try applying more than >once a day but that seems like a real pain in the butt, and if I put >it on too late at night it can keep me awake. The instructions say >to only apply to the " shoulders, upper arms or abs " , have you >noticed any problems applying to your thighs? My thighs may be a >little to hairy for that. -Dan > > > > >> >> >Hi Phil, >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should >not. I >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm >using >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but >have >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any >real >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little >longer to >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying >it >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this >earlier >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan >> >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T passing >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was too >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as possible. >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on >both >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by >sticking to >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I try >to >> avoid the midriff if I can. >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I do >two >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and >one in >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the >spike >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. >> >> - - - - >> Just another albino black sheep >> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Hi Dave, With insurance, the cost to me is 70 bucks for a 3 month supply. It would be less with shots, but I really have a needle phobia, so I haven't went that route yet. I might be willing to try the subQ HCG if I could find a doc to RX it for me. I asked my Uro about HCG and he wanted to refer me to a Endo. My wife goes to that Endo and I had here ask how he would handle it, and (of course) the first thing he would do is take me off TRT to get a baseline, then do only HCG to see if it helped, then maybe do TRT and HCG. (I'm not going to that quack, he may be great for a diabetic, but I'm not diabetic) I've been thinking I might try calling all the local Dr's to see if I can find one that would be willing to work with Dr. and try his method. I think a lower dose of AG and some HCG would probably be better for me, but as always, finding a good doc is hard to do. As for E2 conversion, I think it is slowly increasing. I didn't notice it much at the lower dosage. On 5 g/day it was 33, on 7.5 g/day it went to 41. I haven't had a test lately on the 10 g/day so I don't know where I'm at now but have noticed an increase in anxiety. I'm sure E2 has increased with the extra AG. I've been taking Indoplex DIM to help with this. -Dan > >> > >> >Hi Phil, > >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it > >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should > >not. I > >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm > >using > >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but > >have > >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any > >real > >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little > >longer to > >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying > >it > >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this > >earlier > >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > >> > >> > >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T passing > >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was too > >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as possible. > >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on > >both > >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > >> > >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > >sticking to > >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I try > >to > >> avoid the midriff if I can. > >> > >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I do > >two > >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and > >one in > >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the > >spike > >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > >> > >> - - - - > >> Just another albino black sheep > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 I don't know, I think T should be done intramuscular. It can be done in the fat, but believe it " pools " better in muscle. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: Dan if you are all ready getting Andorgel from your insurance then there should not be a problem getting HCG for low T. As for doing shots I have been doing my 150 mg. shots subQ and so far it is all good I am using the needle I use for the HCG shots it takes some time to get the T out of the vile but it is all good. I have read a lot of posts were guys do there T shot in the belly 6 " to this side of you belly button. You don't need to do them IM. Phil " opus1.rm " <no_reply > wrote: You win Phil! I don't know if my insurance would cover the hcg unless the doc can make them understand that it's not for fertility. If they did cover it, there is a chance the copay would be $5.00 also. Next year, my copay for the AG will go to $80.00 for a 3 month supply (inflation?). I just read that GM is going to close 9 plants and cut 30,000 jobs, hope this doesn't affect your insurance coverage. Dave, I'm glad you are able to do the shots, but I'm still not convinced that I could. I'm a total wimp when it comes to shots. I think I could do the subq hcg, but the IM stuff scares me. I give my wife a shot of avonex every week for MS, and it is the same size needle I would need. I really don't think I could handle it at this point and since the gel seems to be helping, I'll stick with it for awhile. I am a little worried about it though, since my Uro thinks I am not absorbing the AG as well as I should, that's why I'm on so much of it. If it doesn't get my levels where they should be, I may yet have to do the shots. Time will tell. -Dan > >> >> > >> >> >Hi Phil, > >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim > >it > >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should > >> >not. I > >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm > >> >using > >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), > >but > >> >have > >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without > >any > >> >real > >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little > >> >longer to > >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher > >applying > >> >it > >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this > >> >earlier > >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T > >passing > >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was > >too > >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as > >possible. > >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on > >> >both > >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > >> >> > >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > >> >sticking to > >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I > >try > >> >to > >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. > >> >> > >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I > >do > >> >two > >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and > >> >one in > >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the > >> >spike > >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > >> >> > >> >> - - - - > >> >> Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Is anyone applying 10gm? That is a lot of gel to work with. Any suggestions on how to apply that much would be helpful. I've read that greatly increasing the surface area increases e2 and DHT. Does anyone put a portion on, let it dry, and apply again? Thanks in advance for your insight on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Thanks Phil Is anyone applying 10gm? That is a lot of gel to work with. Any > suggestions on how to apply that much would be helpful. I've read > that greatly increasing the surface area increases e2 and DHT. Does > anyone put a portion on, let it dry, and apply again? > > Thanks in advance for your insight on this. > > > > > > > Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " > Phil > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Autos new Car Finder tool.http://us.rd./evt=48518/*http://autos./carfinder/;_ylc=X3\ oDMTE3NWsyMDd2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDY2FyLWZpbmRlcg-- hot CTA = Autos new Car Finder tool > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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