Muscle Testing

[Guest guest]

Coll,

I wouldnt go through that if i didnt have to. I had that and it was

inconclusive. Not sure what they will be able to tell you except that maybe

you have some muscle deterioration. You probably know that anyway, if you

do!!!! It was an awful test.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 18.04.02 17:13:38 US Eastern Standard Time, jcn4jc@...

writes:

> Hey all,

> My neurologist believes that I have lyme and is going to do an mri and

> muscle

> testing on me. Any experience with this? Would it be better to do it

> during

> my herx time? Any input would be great....Colleen

Ooh the muscle test HURT!! :-(

Ilse

----------------------------

Fremd Spaake oik neen Spaake... Spaaniksej ist nijn geporln.

There's no such thing as a foreign language... Language will never die.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/19/02 5:16:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

ilseaurora@... writes:

> Ooh the muscle test HURT!! :-(

>

> Ilse

What kind of muscle test? An EMG?

a

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do me a favor Doc ~ Tell me something good.

Blair ~ The Exorcist

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/19/02 5:16:11 PM, ilseaurora@... writes:

<< Ooh the muscle test HURT!! :-(

>>

I think we need to clarify 'muscle testing' because their is the muscle

testing they do for ALS, which is an EMG test, stuck with needles!!! OUCH.

Then there is alternative med. muscle RESPONSE testing which does not hurt

one bit!

This is where you hold one arm out straight and while holding a substance to

your solar plexis, are asked if that item would help you or harm you. If your

arm goes down, no good. If it stays rigid, good.

thanks

sue in nj

sue massie

[Guest guest]

a-

HOW ARE YOU???

Haven't heard from you....

sue in nj

sue massie

I am also trying to contact Sloane and C. in TX

[Guest guest]

Yes, Coleen,

I agree. It is an expensive test that didn't explain or rule out anything.

It just hurt a real lot! I wouldnt suggest anyone get it!

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue & All,

I've had both types of " muscle testing " Sue mentioned - DEFINATELY

prefer the holistic muscle response testing!!! LOL!

I've had 2 of the other EMG tests - both done by neurologists - helps

to ask doc " will this hurt " - first doc turned machine up so high

tears of pain ran down face immediately; 2nd doc (upon seeing my

grimcace at the thought of having the test) told me, " it may be very

slightly uncomfortable, but it will not hurt. "

I then told him of other test & he rolled his eyes (you know they

never say anything negative about another doc) - & assured me it

would not hurt.

It is rather time-consuming - couple of hours perhaps - depending on

how many muscles they're testing, BUT IT DID NOT HURT ONE BIT - just

very slight tingling. At the end, thanked him profusely & told him I

would not mind having another one done by him any time.

It also helps if the doc tells you exactly what he or she is doing &

what to expect as the test progresses i.e., we're going to pull this

needle out & place it in (wherever).

Also, needles are VERY VERY fine - finer than disposable acupuncture

needles - so please don't picture a HUGE " horse sized " needle...

You might also call hospitals & ask physician referrals who is THE

BEST at doing these - they aren't supposed to answer, but often

they'll say, " Well, we cannot say, but Dr. so & so does many of these

& patients LOVE him or her " - that's always a good indication.

Also, physician referral services are FREE & there is a section where

docs can put in special interest info, such as geriatrics, nutrition

or EMGs, etc.

ANY doctor who is qualified can perform this & send to your doctor if

you are not comfortable with any specific doc performing the test.

if they tell you it's going to be painful, perhaps they have older

equipment that doesn't pick up subtle impulses or something...

Hope this helps!

Blessings!

>

> In a message dated 4/19/02 5:16:11 PM, ilseaurora@a... writes:

>

> << Ooh the muscle test HURT!! :-(

> >>

>

> I think we need to clarify 'muscle testing' because their is the

muscle

> testing they do for ALS, which is an EMG test, stuck with

needles!!! OUCH.

> Then there is alternative med. muscle RESPONSE testing which does

not hurt

> one bit!

> This is where you hold one arm out straight and while holding a

substance to

> your solar plexis, are asked if that item would help you or harm

you. If your

> arm goes down, no good. If it stays rigid, good.

> thanks

> sue in nj

> sue massie

[Guest guest]

Personally I think it felt more along the lines of being electocuted! I can

think of no reason he would want to do this. Its something about how fast the

nerve carrys the pain back to the brain.

Mine was to rule in or rule MS-it did neither.

Coleen

ilseaurora@... wrote:

> In a message dated 18.04.02 17:13:38 US Eastern Standard Time, jcn4jc@...

> writes:

>

> > Hey all,

> > My neurologist believes that I have lyme and is going to do an mri and

> > muscle

> > testing on me. Any experience with this? Would it be better to do it

> > during

> > my herx time? Any input would be great....Colleen

>

> Ooh the muscle test HURT!! :-(

>

> Ilse

> ----------------------------

> Fremd Spaake oik neen Spaake... Spaaniksej ist nijn geporln.

> There's no such thing as a foreign language... Language will never die.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

its a good thing the male giving me the test stood far away or I would have

shown him just how much it hurt! Mine were on my wrists and they actually

" seized " , jumped all over the place and he

said try to hold them still. Yep, that one and a spinal tap, they will never

ever do either on me again unless I am unconcious!

Coleen

heis1am@... wrote:

> Yes, Coleen,

> I agree. It is an expensive test that didn't explain or rule out anything.

> It just hurt a real lot! I wouldnt suggest anyone get it!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 4/19/02 5:16:11 PM, ilseaurora@... writes:

>

> << Ooh the muscle test HURT!! :-(

>

Yes indeed this test can hurt...but not always! There are various reasons

for it hurting. The first...is the insertion of the needle itself. Although

they use a very fine needle, sticking it into the muscle belly can hurt if

the muscles are very sensitive for some reason...such as someone with active

fibromyalgia where the muscles are already tender and hurting. In such a case

the needle insertion will for sure hurt. With a normal muscle the insertion

pain will be minimal to none at all in most cases.

The second cause of pain is the current flow thru the needle once in place.

If the machine is set on low, you will just feel a light tingling. If the

machine is cranked up, then the muscle contracts and will hurt, like heck if

turned way up. Why would the doctor do that to you? The person performing

the test is looking for a deflection of a waveform on his monitor or paper

strip. If you are producing a small defelction, they may turn up the

amplitude power of the machine to invoke a larger response (larger deflection

of the waveform). THe larger the deflection the better they can analize the

waveform and detrmine what is going on. With such test, its not only the

size of the deflection but the quality or makeup of the waveform...or what

the " squiggly " line looks like. In other words they are lookin at the " shape "

of the deflection waveform. CHanges in the shape help them determine what is

going on inside the muscle.

(Similiar to when i look at Doppler ultrasound waveforms of arteries...the

amplitude or hieght of the waveform plus the shape of the waveform tells me

what is going on inside the artery..is it normal or effected by calcification

of the arterial wall - that will change the shape of the waveform). In some

cases, the nerve is not making the response they need at low power, so they

turn it up to induce a better response.

The third reason for a painful test is the examiner him/herself. This like

many test depends largely on " technique " . A tester with bad technique will

produce more discomfort or pain over one with a better technique. Beleive it

or not, but some docs practice this stuff on each other in training..others

do not. If you had this done to yourself, you know what it feels like and

work to make it a better experience when done on a real patient. Some docs

just never get this experience and therefore just plunge ahead with the test,

like no big deal. Yeah right! (When i was in trainig we gave certian

injections to each other...you can bet i can give those injections now with

almost no pain to the patient!) ITs very similiar to trigger point

injections...done right yu hardly feel it, with poor technique, it can hurt

like hell! (I practiced trigger point injections on my own legs. Hurt like

heck in the beginning, but i played with them until i figured out how to do

them with minimal discomfort - had to, i needed them! So i worked out a " good

technique " . Dont expect to many docs to practice on themselves! LOL).

With muscle testing needle placement is important to getting a good signal

from the muscle...the examiner has to get the area where the nerve connects

to the muscle. There is no way to figure this out except for placing the

needle, which is why you can get stuck so many times during the test - needle

has to be placed over and over to get a good " read " .

Anything that effects nerve conduction will alter the test, which is why it

is used often to rule out/in demylenation type diseases such as MS, ALS or

Myasthenia Gravis. In these cases the demylenation degrades the nerve inpulse

to the muscle, decreasing the waveform amplitude, etc. Unfortunately a

certain amount of demylentation has to occur for the test to be positive or

conclusive. Therefore in the early phases of these diseases the test will be

unconclusive. But its good to get a test result at this time, to compare to

test taken later on if your symptoms continue to get worse.

It can also help determine other things that can effect nerve conduction such

as a tumor mass pressing on a nerve, a herniated disc, etc.

As someone mentioned already...try to find someone with a good reputation for

doing this test..then you can assume they have a good technique and your pain

will be minimalized. On a side note...it always has amazed me how many test

that can be performed on a patient can be so darn outright miserable to

experience or to perform! Just no way to get around that in most cases,

unfortunately. Some test are just plain evil no matter how you prepare for

them! And some, the test prep is evil, and the test is a piece of

cake...colonoscopy comes to mind here! Oh well...such is life.

Skip

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 19.04.02 21:03:59 US Eastern Standard Time,

Ssadlermas@... writes:

> I think we need to clarify 'muscle testing' because their is the muscle

> testing they do for ALS, which is an EMG test, stuck with needles!!! OUCH.

> Then there is alternative med. muscle RESPONSE testing which does not hurt

> one bit!

Yes. the EMG hurt like nothing I've known. I did not have the response test,

for whatever reason.

Ilse.

----------------------------

Fremd Spaake oik neen Spaake... Spaaniksej ist nijn geporln.

There's no such thing as a foreign language... Language will never die.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 19.04.02 22:35:47 US Eastern Standard Time,

granscot@... writes:

> Mine was to rule in or rule MS-it did neither.

> Coleen

Mine was to see if my nerves were responding. A few of the places where he

did the needles- my left leg, for example- I felt nothing. I just can't

imagine there isn't a less painful way for them to decide that!!!

Ilse.

----------------------------

Fremd Spaake oik neen Spaake... Spaaniksej ist nijn geporln.

There's no such thing as a foreign language... Language will never die.

[Guest guest]

When I was muscle-tested by a chiro, 26 yrs. ago, the pill was held under my

tongue each time.  It worked for me then.  I've never heard of just holding the

product in your hand....

[Guest guest]

Muscle testing being electrical stimulation?

 

-Jeff

From: le Handy <kndplus2@...>

Subject: [ ] muscle testing

Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 3:25 PM

 

has anyone had success with muscle testing?

[Guest guest]

The two times my LLMD has done it for me (for extra information in deciding

which infection to focus on), it has matched up with my symptoms very well.

I didn't know what tubes I was holding, and it seemed like the doctor was

pressing as hard as he could, so I don't think there was a lot of

expectation effect interfering. However, two times is a small sample, and

it's not even clear whether the results were " accurate. "

But I found that the results helped me to feel more confident about the

treatment I was put on, and confidence can be a factor in getting better, so

why not?

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Kendra <KCuyler@...> wrote:

>

>

> Success? In what way?

>

> Do I think it works for diagnosis? or determining what substances to

> take and/or how much? Yes - I used to see a chiro and he muscle

> tested me for supplements. It was weird to see my body react and to

> not have control over the reaction. But it worked as far as I can

> tell.

>

> hth

> Kendra

>

>

> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 5:25 PM, le Handy

<kndplus2@...<kndplus2%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

> > has anyone had success with muscle testing?

>

>

[Guest guest]

As a way to decide which supplements to take?? or for something else??? Your

question is not clear because muscle testing is a pretty broad subject with

standard medical uses, chiropractic applied kinesiology uses, etc.

AK muscle testing to determine supplements is a useful tool, but it is not fool

proof. I used it for decades as part of my practice. I always preferred blood

and lab testing or other objective results to such a subjective test. Sometimes

it's better to have questionable data than no data at all, and I often used

muscle testing for this purpose when I did not have access to better

information. Usually it is helpful, but the information from muscle testing is

not completely reliable and can be influenced by many different factors within

the patient, tester, and environment. Something as simple as the tester inhaling

can change the result of the test. I believe that such muscle testing works by

accessing what information is in the patient's subconscious, which is likely to

be greater, especially about nutritional status, than what is available to them

consciously. Some things are not knowable, even by our subconscious, and yes and

no questions don't

cover all options. It is a useful and fascinating tool. It doesn't always work.

That is my experience based on decades of using it.

 

________________________________

From: le Handy <kndplus2@...>

Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 5:25:21 PM

Subject: [ ] muscle testing

 

has anyone had success with muscle testing?