Guest guest Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 That seems like a much smaller amount than I am using. Only about 1/3rd. I was told by someone else that 200mg / week is quite high. Initially I was injecting 0.3ml only 2x / week but after lab results my doctor increased it to 3x / week. I have an appointment in a few weeks and I will post my results. At 2x / week I was still below the mid-normal range. Without any TRT my lab work was 210 which I think is very low. Interesting you should mention the luer lok syringes. The first time I filled the prescription I was given that type of syringe and a larger and smaller needle to swap, just the way you do, then my doctor specifically specified not to use those and just to use the insulin syringes. I'm not sure why but they are pretty insistent on it. I think it may be less expensive although I think needles are the cheapest part of the whole thing. It sounds as though subQ is working well for you. Are you happy with it? Any problems? ________________________________ From: Cunningham <wec@...> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:50:12 AM Subject: subq T injections Another Shippen patient here. I have for several years been using this method. I am currently injecting a total of .35 cc of T cyp per week (200 mg/cc), split into two injections of .15 cc on Tue and .20 cc and Fri. You see the logical of using the larger of the two amounts on the day that is followed by three days off. Preparing the syringe is a lot easier if you use a larger needle to draw up the T oil, then swap to the smaller one for the injection into the belly. Also, it really helps to use a 1 cc Luer Lok syringe. My local Walgreens told me they weren't available, but when I asked Dr. Shippen he said they are. The compounding pharmacy that he uses has them and they mail them to me. These syringes not only lock the needle in place so the pressure of the oil doesn't accidently eject the needle but they are also clearly marked down to .01 cc increments so you can more accurately measure your dose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 According to my notes from last consult w/ Dr. Shippen, the average male produces 50 mg of T per week. T cyp is 70% T and 30% cyp. So if I am taking 70 mg/week (.35 cc 200 mg/cc) then I am getting around 50 mg of pure T per week, just about 1 for 1 replacement. This has been OK for me, both clinically and bloodwork-wise, but some men will need more. I wish I knew what my T production was when I was in my 20s so I would have a reference. > > That seems like a much smaller amount than I am using. Only about 1/3rd. I was told by someone else that 200mg / week is quite high. Initially I was injecting 0.3ml only 2x / week but after lab results my doctor increased it to 3x / week. I have an appointment in a few weeks and I will post my results. At 2x / week I was still below the mid-normal range. Without any TRT my lab work was 210 which I think is very low. > > Interesting you should mention the luer lok syringes. The first time I filled the prescription I was given that type of syringe and a larger and smaller needle to swap, just the way you do, then my doctor specifically specified not to use those and just to use the insulin syringes. I'm not sure why but they are pretty insistent on it. I think it may be less expensive although I think needles are the cheapest part of the whole thing. > > It sounds as though subQ is working well for you. Are you happy with it? Any problems? > > > > ________________________________ > From: Cunningham <wec@...> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:50:12 AM > Subject: subq T injections > > > Another Shippen patient here. I have for several years been using > this method. I am currently injecting a total of .35 cc of T cyp per > week (200 mg/cc), split into two injections of .15 cc on Tue and .20 > cc and Fri. You see the logical of using the larger of the two > amounts on the day that is followed by three days off. Preparing the > syringe is a lot easier if you use a larger needle to draw up the T > oil, then swap to the smaller one for the injection into the belly. > Also, it really helps to use a 1 cc Luer Lok syringe. My local > Walgreens told me they weren't available, but when I asked Dr. > Shippen he said they are. The compounding pharmacy that he uses has > them and they mail them to me. These syringes not only lock the > needle in place so the pressure of the oil doesn't accidently eject > the needle but they are also clearly marked down to .01 cc increments > so you can more accurately measure your dose. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 The amount cited is the lowest normal amount of production of T for men. The normal range for daily production is around 7-11 mg per day, totaling 49 (50) mg - 70 (75) mg per week. One has to wonder whether or not the low end of production- 7 mg per day- might contribute to a low normal reading of total T, around 300-450 ng/dL, though it is probably more complicated than that. It makes sense to take 100 mg cypionate per week (divided in whatever frequency & dosages you find minimizes conversion to estradiol) since you'd be getting around 70 mg of actual T. It might do better at keeping you within the upper 1/3 of the reference range. ~Xian > > According to my notes from last consult w/ Dr. Shippen, the average > male produces 50 mg of T per week. T cyp is 70% T and 30% cyp. So if I > am taking 70 mg/week (.35 cc 200 mg/cc) then I am getting around 50 mg > of pure T per week, just about 1 for 1 replacement. This has been OK > for me, both clinically and bloodwork-wise, but some men will need > more. I wish I knew what my T production was when I was in my 20s so I > would have a reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Yes this is true but one thing we are not thinking about and it's the loss of bound T some need more to get there levels up high enough adding T is not the same as the Testis makeing it. Your getting it allday long from the testis. Not the case in shots most of it gets converted or bound up. A lot of it is lost to stress is your under stress from life you being sick you need more. Co-Moderator Phil > From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> > Subject: Re: subq T injections > > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 12:09 PM > The amount cited is the lowest normal amount of production > of T for > men. The normal range for daily production is around 7-11 > mg per day, > totaling 49 (50) mg - 70 (75) mg per week. One has to > wonder whether > or not the low end of production- 7 mg per day- might > contribute to a > low normal reading of total T, around 300-450 ng/dL, though > it is > probably more complicated than that. > > It makes sense to take 100 mg cypionate per week (divided > in whatever > frequency & dosages you find minimizes conversion to > estradiol) since > you'd be getting around 70 mg of actual T. It might do > better at > keeping you within the upper 1/3 of the reference range. > > ~Xian > > > > > > According to my notes from last consult w/ Dr. > Shippen, the average > > male produces 50 mg of T per week. T cyp is 70% T and > 30% cyp. So if I > > am taking 70 mg/week (.35 cc 200 mg/cc) then I am > getting around 50 mg > > of pure T per week, just about 1 for 1 replacement. > This has been OK > > for me, both clinically and bloodwork-wise, but some > men will need > > more. I wish I knew what my T production was when I > was in my 20s so I > > would have a reference. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Good point, Phil. I can see how someone might need more than 100 mg cypionate weekly, but I think it's unlikely that a person would do well with less, unless the dosing regimen was more frequent, averaging at least 100 mg per week. Each person's mileage might vary, but it was my concern that weconline not shortchange himself. ~Xian > > > From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> > > Subject: Re: subq T injections > > > > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 12:09 PM > > The amount cited is the lowest normal amount of production > > of T for > > men. The normal range for daily production is around 7-11 > > mg per day, > > totaling 49 (50) mg - 70 (75) mg per week. One has to > > wonder whether > > or not the low end of production- 7 mg per day- might > > contribute to a > > low normal reading of total T, around 300-450 ng/dL, though > > it is > > probably more complicated than that. > > > > It makes sense to take 100 mg cypionate per week (divided > > in whatever > > frequency & dosages you find minimizes conversion to > > estradiol) since > > you'd be getting around 70 mg of actual T. It might do > > better at > > keeping you within the upper 1/3 of the reference range. > > > > ~Xian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 I know I went through this with one of the bad Dr.'s I was seeing he kept telling me I don't need more T my levels are good I was at the time using a lab that had a range of 262 to 1593 he kept me down at 600 this is like being at less then 400 using Quest labs range of 241 to 827 today using Quest labs I keep my levels at about 750 to 800 now I don't have sore joints and muscles and feel my best. One will never know until they get there levels up into the uppper 1/3 of there labs range. And to keep leveled I do my shots every 3 days and this also holds down the E2. Co-Moderator Phil > From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> > Subject: Re: subq T injections > > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 1:48 PM > Good point, Phil. I can see how someone might need more > than 100 mg > cypionate weekly, but I think it's unlikely that a > person would do > well with less, unless the dosing regimen was more > frequent, averaging > at least 100 mg per week. Each person's mileage might > vary, but it > was my concern that weconline not shortchange himself. > > ~Xian > > > > > > > From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> > > > Subject: Re: subq T injections > > > > > > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 12:09 PM > > > The amount cited is the lowest normal amount of > production > > > of T for > > > men. The normal range for daily production is > around 7-11 > > > mg per day, > > > totaling 49 (50) mg - 70 (75) mg per week. One > has to > > > wonder whether > > > or not the low end of production- 7 mg per day- > might > > > contribute to a > > > low normal reading of total T, around 300-450 > ng/dL, though > > > it is > > > probably more complicated than that. > > > > > > It makes sense to take 100 mg cypionate per week > (divided > > > in whatever > > > frequency & dosages you find minimizes > conversion to > > > estradiol) since > > > you'd be getting around 70 mg of actual T. > It might do > > > better at > > > keeping you within the upper 1/3 of the reference > range. > > > > > > ~Xian > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 The average male aged 20 puts out a lot more than the average male aged 60. What age is this average male putting out 50 mg of testosterone supposed to be? I'm on 200 mg of TC/week, and that has me ranging between 950 and 1050 pg/ml. This sort of suggests that it is more like 140 mg of actual testosterone per week to hit the upper end of the range. > > According to my notes from last consult w/ Dr. Shippen, the average > male produces 50 mg of T per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I feel age has nothing to do with it the labs do samples from men of all ages and crunch the numbers to come up with there ranges. Just because a older man has lower levels this does not mean it's normal. I feel and so do a lot of good Dr.'s that if your levels in your 20's were good for you then they are good in your 60's. I stopped looking at labs to does a long time ago I now go by how I feel. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Mike Lawson <mlawson66@...> > Subject: Re: subq T injections > > Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 10:29 AM > The average male aged 20 puts out a lot more than the > average > male aged 60. What age is this average male putting out 50 > mg > of testosterone supposed to be? > > I'm on 200 mg of TC/week, and that has me ranging > between 950 > and 1050 pg/ml. This sort of suggests that it is more like > 140 mg > of actual testosterone per week to hit the upper end of the > range. > > > > > > According to my notes from last consult w/ Dr. > Shippen, the average > > male produces 50 mg of T per week. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I would agree on that point. I'm just saying that if the *average* includes men of 20 and men of 60, then the *average* is less than optimal. I want to keep my levels at what they were when I was 20, not what is supposed to be average for a man of 45. I feel really good at my current levels. > > > > > > According to my notes from last consult w/ Dr. > > Shippen, the average > > > male produces 50 mg of T per week. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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