Clomid, Arimidex and Androgel?

[Guest guest]

I've been on Androgel for six months or so. At first, Androgel or

Testim caused spontaneous errections... that I had not had in over

ten years. But that passed very quickly too.

Early on, I took some several day breaks from the androgel and took

Clomid in it's place. I had frequent night time spontaneous

erections each time I took Clomid. Recently, Clomid causes no

change. And Libido has been suffering, but so far no ED.

I tried Aridimex yesterday evening, 1/2 of a pill and had

spontaneous erections as I awoke this morning. It didn't help any

with delayed ejaculation though. I want to change to or at least

add HCG, but my physician is reluctant for this notion since it's

not protocal. Androgel is key to maintaining my pain levels under

control too and neither clomid or aridimex help with pain at all.

So I'm looking for ideas and such to discuss at my next visit with

the doc. Earlier test for E2 showed it was normal, in the middle of

the range folks here look for. But the effects of Aridimex suggest

that E2 is too high, at least while taking androgel. I need some

ideas to talk over with the doc. Thanks all.

[Guest guest]

Hi I know how you feel been there. First thing what are your last test levels

with the units and ranges.

When we older men first go on TRT we get some good wood even if we are having

problems with ED. This happens because your T levels went up. Most men on

Androgle start at 5 grams there levels go up they get some wood. But there

brain sees this extra T in the blood and stops sending the messages to the

testis to make more T so if before going on Andorgel your levels for TT were

250. And adding the gel they went up 200 more points when your brain sees this

and stop sending the LH and FSH messages to your testis you end up lower then

you started. Now your levels are 200 so you needed to test your levels after

the first 2 week and if your levels were lower or the same you needed to up your

dose to 10 grams.

Most Dr.'s don't test for high Estradiol and this is a big problem if your

Estradiol is high this will shut down your HPTA and your testis will not get the

messages to make more T. Your brain can't tell the difference between T and

Estradiol so when your high your brain thinks it's T and stops sending the

messages to your testis to make more t. Just getting the Estradiol down your

testis will bring your levels back up. Some men don't need T meds just need to

keep there Estardiol down.

Doing Androgel then stoping to do some clomid lowered your Estardiol levels so

this can be why your go more wood then as you level off it stops.

Doing Androgel gave me dam sore joints and muscles because I could not get my

levels high enough. So of us have a thicker skin due to a Thyroid problem and

the gels don't get your levels up high enough. I switched to shots starting at

100 mgs. every week in less then 4 weeks I went form being house bound and in

dam bad pain so much so I had a hard time walking. Doing shots got my levels

high enough and my joints and muscles started repairing the damage done by low T

and I was out walking and working about the house after yrs. of being house

bound.

I add in some HCG to my shots 500 IU's 3 x's a week after the 15th shot my

levels went from 600 to 1000 they doubled. So now we know I am not Primary but

Secondary and Adding HCG started my testis to make more T half of what the shots

of T were doing. Now after 23 yrs I felt like I was at 100%.

Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success doing this

treatment saved my life. Adding HCG brought my testis back they were the size

of small grapes now they come back to there normal size. Read the following

links this my help you and your Dr. to understand about this better.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

Tell your Dr. is my BCBS will pay from my HCG to treat low T this should get

him on board to give it to you.

In this link it starts to get your Total and Free T levels up into the upper

1/3 of your labs range for a young man. And to keep your Estradiol " E2 " down

between 10 to 30 best at 20 yet some men do good at up to 40.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Your taking arimidex and getting some morning wood that night tells me you not

very high so be careful with the dose so you don't go to low this is just as bad

as to high. I use my morning wood as a gauge to not go to low. When I lose my

morning wood I stop the Arimidex until it comes back then I go back on it that

day and cut the does. A lot of men do good at 1/4 of a 1mg pill every 3 to 5

days.

You orgasms will come back but it takes time the more morning wood you get the

better your penis will get this is how it stays healthy.

Some of us because we have had a problem with ED need to take Cialis 20 mgs

every 72 hrs so are brain will not kill it when we go to have sex. Once you

have ED your always worried if it will work and this kills it. Also doing this

helps with morning wood for us older men.

tired_old_fart <tired_old_fart@...> wrote: I've been on Androgel

for six months or so. At first, Androgel or

Testim caused spontaneous errections... that I had not had in over

ten years. But that passed very quickly too.

Early on, I took some several day breaks from the androgel and took

Clomid in it's place. I had frequent night time spontaneous

erections each time I took Clomid. Recently, Clomid causes no

change. And Libido has been suffering, but so far no ED.

I tried Aridimex yesterday evening, 1/2 of a pill and had

spontaneous erections as I awoke this morning. It didn't help any

with delayed ejaculation though. I want to change to or at least

add HCG, but my physician is reluctant for this notion since it's

not protocal. Androgel is key to maintaining my pain levels under

control too and neither clomid or aridimex help with pain at all.

So I'm looking for ideas and such to discuss at my next visit with

the doc. Earlier test for E2 showed it was normal, in the middle of

the range folks here look for. But the effects of Aridimex suggest

that E2 is too high, at least while taking androgel. I need some

ideas to talk over with the doc. Thanks all.

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

---------------------------------

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.

Play Sims Stories at Games.

[Guest guest]

My free-t was 2.8 before I started testim. At two weeks free-t was 15. I was

told to stop trt by an endo and at two weeks wash out, I was at 450 total T.

fsh was 3.1, lh was 2.5. So the pituitary seems to be my problem, or these

would be much higher.

Back on androgel, free t was 12-1/2 and total t was 1000+. I think we can

throw these test results out because I had some androgel applied at the blood

test site and I think that skewed the results.

Next test free-t was 7. I had the phebotimist thoroughly clean up the draw

site with alcohol. fsh was 1.1 and lh 0.8. Estradiol was 20, right in the

middle of the range. So by this time, I was shut down. Pituitary had decided I

had plenty of testosterone. And nuts were already smaller.

Along the way, I have tried Clomid, Arimidex and Tamoxifen. Clomidalways

caused morning wood the next day. I periodically stopped androgel and took

clomid and it would only take a couple of days for nut size to return to normal.

So I let this go a while, taking Androgel. This time taking clomid, no

morning wood and size isn't coming back. I tried Arimidex, 1/2 mg while still

taking androgel and morning wood all next morning during sleep. So that sort of

says E2 is to high, regardless of the earlier test results.

Doc is unwilling to prescribe hcg, probably over concern it's not protocol and

could put his practice in question. And he has some doubts too. There is come

confusion about the " shutdown " exogenous test causes and we are at an impass.

Muscle aches and joint pain gets really high if I skip androgel. I take

oxycodone for bad pain and they don't do a damn thing unless there is

testosterone on board in adequate levels.

Anyway, my concern is about maintaining nut size while I find someone who will

manage things with HCG. Clomid 50mg for a week didn't do anything this time. I

had expected like PCT the body builders follow, that I would see results in that

time. Nothing. I can't go to Michigan and so far not found someone locally.

No problems so far with ED or libido through all of this. The problem is with

delayed ejaculation. Sometimes I just have to give up because joints start

complaining.

Guess were not teenagers anymore where there problem was accidental gun

firing.

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Hi I know how you feel been there. First thing what are your last test

levels with the units and ranges.

When we older men first go on TRT we get some good wood even if we are having

problems with ED. This happens because your T levels went up. Most men on

Androgle start at 5 grams there levels go up they get some wood. But there brain

sees this extra T in the blood and stops sending the messages to the testis to

make more T so if before going on Andorgel your levels for TT were 250. And

adding the gel they went up 200 more points when your brain sees this and stop

sending the LH and FSH messages to your testis you end up lower then you

started. Now your levels are 200 so you needed to test your levels after the

first 2 week and if your levels were lower or the same you needed to up your

dose to 10 grams.

Most Dr.'s don't test for high Estradiol and this is a big problem if your

Estradiol is high this will shut down your HPTA and your testis will not get the

messages to make more T. Your brain can't tell the difference between T and

Estradiol so when your high your brain thinks it's T and stops sending the

messages to your testis to make more t. Just getting the Estradiol down your

testis will bring your levels back up. Some men don't need T meds just need to

keep there Estardiol down.

Doing Androgel then stoping to do some clomid lowered your Estardiol levels so

this can be why your go more wood then as you level off it stops.

Doing Androgel gave me dam sore joints and muscles because I could not get my

levels high enough. So of us have a thicker skin due to a Thyroid problem and

the gels don't get your levels up high enough. I switched to shots starting at

100 mgs. every week in less then 4 weeks I went form being house bound and in

dam bad pain so much so I had a hard time walking. Doing shots got my levels

high enough and my joints and muscles started repairing the damage done by low T

and I was out walking and working about the house after yrs. of being house

bound.

I add in some HCG to my shots 500 IU's 3 x's a week after the 15th shot my

levels went from 600 to 1000 they doubled. So now we know I am not Primary but

Secondary and Adding HCG started my testis to make more T half of what the shots

of T were doing. Now after 23 yrs I felt like I was at 100%.

Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success doing this

treatment saved my life. Adding HCG brought my testis back they were the size of

small grapes now they come back to there normal size. Read the following links

this my help you and your Dr. to understand about this better.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

Tell your Dr. is my BCBS will pay from my HCG to treat low T this should get him

on board to give it to you.

In this link it starts to get your Total and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3

of your labs range for a young man. And to keep your Estradiol " E2 " down between

10 to 30 best at 20 yet some men do good at up to 40.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Your taking arimidex and getting some morning wood that night tells me you not

very high so be careful with the dose so you don't go to low this is just as bad

as to high. I use my morning wood as a gauge to not go to low. When I lose my

morning wood I stop the Arimidex until it comes back then I go back on it that

day and cut the does. A lot of men do good at 1/4 of a 1mg pill every 3 to 5

days.

You orgasms will come back but it takes time the more morning wood you get the

better your penis will get this is how it stays healthy.

Some of us because we have had a problem with ED need to take Cialis 20 mgs

every 72 hrs so are brain will not kill it when we go to have sex. Once you have

ED your always worried if it will work and this kills it. Also doing this helps

with morning wood for us older men.

tired_old_fart <tired_old_fart@...> wrote: I've been on Androgel for six

months or so. At first, Androgel or

Testim caused spontaneous errections... that I had not had in over

ten years. But that passed very quickly too.

Early on, I took some several day breaks from the androgel and took

Clomid in it's place. I had frequent night time spontaneous

erections each time I took Clomid. Recently, Clomid causes no

change. And Libido has been suffering, but so far no ED.

I tried Aridimex yesterday evening, 1/2 of a pill and had

spontaneous erections as I awoke this morning. It didn't help any

with delayed ejaculation though. I want to change to or at least

add HCG, but my physician is reluctant for this notion since it's

not protocal. Androgel is key to maintaining my pain levels under

control too and neither clomid or aridimex help with pain at all.

So I'm looking for ideas and such to discuss at my next visit with

the doc. Earlier test for E2 showed it was normal, in the middle of

the range folks here look for. But the effects of Aridimex suggest

that E2 is too high, at least while taking androgel. I need some

ideas to talk over with the doc. Thanks all.

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

---------------------------------

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.

Play Sims Stories at Games.

[Guest guest]

Sorry Larry I did not know you were on testim and then stopped it for 2 weeks to

test LH and FSH your to late. When you started Testim your brain stops sending

the LH and FSH messages to the testis to make T and you can be off the meds for

months and not get the LH and FSH to come back up. All you can do now is a HCG

or Clomid stem test. Read this.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/david-z-s-primer-134235700.html\

?highlight=primer+hcg

and this.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/david-z-s-primer-134235701.html\

?highlight=primer+hcg

also there is some info on the stem tests in this link.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

Larry Larry <tired_old_fart@...> wrote:

My free-t was 2.8 before I started testim. At two weeks free-t was 15.

I was told to stop trt by an endo and at two weeks wash out, I was at 450 total

T. fsh was 3.1, lh was 2.5. So the pituitary seems to be my problem, or these

would be much higher.

Back on androgel, free t was 12-1/2 and total t was 1000+. I think we can throw

these test results out because I had some androgel applied at the blood test

site and I think that skewed the results.

Next test free-t was 7. I had the phebotimist thoroughly clean up the draw site

with alcohol. fsh was 1.1 and lh 0.8. Estradiol was 20, right in the middle of

the range. So by this time, I was shut down. Pituitary had decided I had plenty

of testosterone. And nuts were already smaller.

Along the way, I have tried Clomid, Arimidex and Tamoxifen. Clomidalways caused

morning wood the next day. I periodically stopped androgel and took clomid and

it would only take a couple of days for nut size to return to normal.

So I let this go a while, taking Androgel. This time taking clomid, no morning

wood and size isn't coming back. I tried Arimidex, 1/2 mg while still taking

androgel and morning wood all next morning during sleep. So that sort of says E2

is to high, regardless of the earlier test results.

Doc is unwilling to prescribe hcg, probably over concern it's not protocol and

could put his practice in question. And he has some doubts too. There is come

confusion about the " shutdown " exogenous test causes and we are at an impass.

Muscle aches and joint pain gets really high if I skip androgel. I take

oxycodone for bad pain and they don't do a damn thing unless there is

testosterone on board in adequate levels.

Anyway, my concern is about maintaining nut size while I find someone who will

manage things with HCG. Clomid 50mg for a week didn't do anything this time. I

had expected like PCT the body builders follow, that I would see results in that

time. Nothing. I can't go to Michigan and so far not found someone locally.

No problems so far with ED or libido through all of this. The problem is with

delayed ejaculation. Sometimes I just have to give up because joints start

complaining.

Guess were not teenagers anymore where there problem was accidental gun firing.

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Hi I know how you feel been there. First thing what are your last test levels

with the units and ranges.

When we older men first go on TRT we get some good wood even if we are having

problems with ED. This happens because your T levels went up. Most men on

Androgle start at 5 grams there levels go up they get some wood. But there brain

sees this extra T in the blood and stops sending the messages to the testis to

make more T so if before going on Andorgel your levels for TT were 250. And

adding the gel they went up 200 more points when your brain sees this and stop

sending the LH and FSH messages to your testis you end up lower then you

started. Now your levels are 200 so you needed to test your levels after the

first 2 week and if your levels were lower or the same you needed to up your

dose to 10 grams.

Most Dr.'s don't test for high Estradiol and this is a big problem if your

Estradiol is high this will shut down your HPTA and your testis will not get the

messages to make more T. Your brain can't tell the difference between T and

Estradiol so when your high your brain thinks it's T and stops sending the

messages to your testis to make more t. Just getting the Estradiol down your

testis will bring your levels back up. Some men don't need T meds just need to

keep there Estardiol down.

Doing Androgel then stoping to do some clomid lowered your Estardiol levels so

this can be why your go more wood then as you level off it stops.

Doing Androgel gave me dam sore joints and muscles because I could not get my

levels high enough. So of us have a thicker skin due to a Thyroid problem and

the gels don't get your levels up high enough. I switched to shots starting at

100 mgs. every week in less then 4 weeks I went form being house bound and in

dam bad pain so much so I had a hard time walking. Doing shots got my levels

high enough and my joints and muscles started repairing the damage done by low T

and I was out walking and working about the house after yrs. of being house

bound.

I add in some HCG to my shots 500 IU's 3 x's a week after the 15th shot my

levels went from 600 to 1000 they doubled. So now we know I am not Primary but

Secondary and Adding HCG started my testis to make more T half of what the shots

of T were doing. Now after 23 yrs I felt like I was at 100%.

Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success doing this

treatment saved my life. Adding HCG brought my testis back they were the size of

small grapes now they come back to there normal size. Read the following links

this my help you and your Dr. to understand about this better.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

Tell your Dr. is my BCBS will pay from my HCG to treat low T this should get him

on board to give it to you.

In this link it starts to get your Total and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3

of your labs range for a young man. And to keep your Estradiol " E2 " down between

10 to 30 best at 20 yet some men do good at up to 40.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Your taking arimidex and getting some morning wood that night tells me you not

very high so be careful with the dose so you don't go to low this is just as bad

as to high. I use my morning wood as a gauge to not go to low. When I lose my

morning wood I stop the Arimidex until it comes back then I go back on it that

day and cut the does. A lot of men do good at 1/4 of a 1mg pill every 3 to 5

days.

You orgasms will come back but it takes time the more morning wood you get the

better your penis will get this is how it stays healthy.

Some of us because we have had a problem with ED need to take Cialis 20 mgs

every 72 hrs so are brain will not kill it when we go to have sex. Once you have

ED your always worried if it will work and this kills it. Also doing this helps

with morning wood for us older men.

tired_old_fart <tired_old_fart@...> wrote: I've been on Androgel for six

months or so. At first, Androgel or

Testim caused spontaneous errections... that I had not had in over

ten years. But that passed very quickly too.

Early on, I took some several day breaks from the androgel and took

Clomid in it's place. I had frequent night time spontaneous

erections each time I took Clomid. Recently, Clomid causes no

change. And Libido has been suffering, but so far no ED.

I tried Aridimex yesterday evening, 1/2 of a pill and had

spontaneous erections as I awoke this morning. It didn't help any

with delayed ejaculation though. I want to change to or at least

add HCG, but my physician is reluctant for this notion since it's

not protocal. Androgel is key to maintaining my pain levels under

control too and neither clomid or aridimex help with pain at all.

So I'm looking for ideas and such to discuss at my next visit with

the doc. Earlier test for E2 showed it was normal, in the middle of

the range folks here look for. But the effects of Aridimex suggest

that E2 is too high, at least while taking androgel. I need some

ideas to talk over with the doc. Thanks all.

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

---------------------------------

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.

Play Sims Stories at Games.

[Guest guest]

I was on testim only two weeks... then stopped for two weeks wash-out to take

the tests. That endo said I didn't need testim because total t was above AACE

minimums. He was pretty lost too. During this wash-out time, my pain levels

went sky high. Anyway, he got those FSH and LH tests with two weeks wash out

that followed only two weeks of dosing. Hopefully that's not long enough to be

shut down after the wash out.

I went back to testim and pain levels dropped promptly. even 1/3 tube would

make a prompt and noticable difference. I filled the prescriptions and

continued on androgel since then. After months of taking androgel, I had E2

tested and it was middle of the road at 20. I had really expected it to be high

and to be the cause of my low free-t. The test coming back at 20 was a surprise

to me.

I take oxycodone for pain and that medication competes at the pituitary for

feedback sites involved in the t control loop. So I am fairly certain I am hypo

because of pituitary, not testicle issue. Clomid used to cause morning

errections at 25 mg the previous evening. So the issue has to be the feedback

at pituitary, not testicle function.

When you take clomid for PCT to jump start things working again, how long does

it take? Does the dose need to be more than 50mg?

I used to get some effect from Clomid. I would stop the androgel for four to

six days and take Clomid. The boys would return to size and I'd start androgel

again. I guess I waited too long this time. I went around three months before

taking clomid again and at 50mg daily for a week, not much happening.

So far, about seven or eight months on TRT. It helps with joint and muscle

pain and thinking and energy level are better. But it's causing delayed

ejaculation and I don't think the gel is a satisfactory treatment without hcg.

As I say, boys are shrinking, scrotum is tighter. I'm not at all happy about

that!

There's lots of SERMS in the biotech companies under developement that will be

out in a few years. I want to be able to take advantage of them. So shutting

down testicles and shrinking them seems like a bad idea.

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Sorry Larry I did not know you were on testim and then stopped it for

2 weeks to test LH and FSH your to late. When you started Testim your brain

stops sending the LH and FSH messages to the testis to make T and you can be off

the meds for months and not get the LH and FSH to come back up. All you can do

now is a HCG or Clomid stem test. Read this.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/david-z-s-primer-134235700.html\

?highlight=primer+hcg

and this.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/david-z-s-primer-134235701.html\

?highlight=primer+hcg

also there is some info on the stem tests in this link.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

Recent Activity

12

New Members

Visit Your Group

[Guest guest]

Larry,

When starting from untreated hypogon., you can see results with

Clomid (typically 50 mgs. EOD or M,W,F) in one month. However, I

have found that, if you were on TRT for a period of time, it can

take 3-6 months to wake the system back up. Again, this is just my

experience.

Blessings,

Bill

> Sorry Larry I did not know you were on testim and then

stopped it for 2 weeks to test LH and FSH your to late. When you

started Testim your brain stops sending the LH and FSH messages to

the testis to make T and you can be off the meds for months and not

get the LH and FSH to come back up. All you can do now is a HCG or

Clomid stem test. Read this.

> http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/david-z-s-primer-

134235700.html?highlight=primer+hcg

> and this.

> http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/david-z-s-primer-

134235701.html?highlight=primer+hcg

> also there is some info on the stem tests in this link.

> http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

>

>

>

> Recent Activity

>

> 12

> New Members

>

> Visit Your Group

>

[Guest guest]

I never heard of doing this for TRT when you have low T do to secondary or

primary hypogonadism your on it for life and it stops your testis from working.

If you want them to keep working add in shots of HCG. Go to

www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG update.

Larry Larry <tired_old_fart@...> wrote: I was on testim only two

weeks... then stopped for two weeks wash-out to take the tests. That endo said I

didn't need testim because total t was above AACE minimums. He was pretty lost

too. During this wash-out time, my pain levels went sky high. Anyway, he got

those FSH and LH tests with two weeks wash out that followed only two weeks of

dosing. Hopefully that's not long enough to be shut down after the wash out.

I went back to testim and pain levels dropped promptly. even 1/3 tube would make

a prompt and noticable difference. I filled the prescriptions and continued on

androgel since then. After months of taking androgel, I had E2 tested and it was

middle of the road at 20. I had really expected it to be high and to be the

cause of my low free-t. The test coming back at 20 was a surprise to me.

I take oxycodone for pain and that medication competes at the pituitary for

feedback sites involved in the t control loop. So I am fairly certain I am hypo

because of pituitary, not testicle issue. Clomid used to cause morning

errections at 25 mg the previous evening. So the issue has to be the feedback at

pituitary, not testicle function.

When you take clomid for PCT to jump start things working again, how long does

it take? Does the dose need to be more than 50mg?

I used to get some effect from Clomid. I would stop the androgel for four to six

days and take Clomid. The boys would return to size and I'd start androgel

again. I guess I waited too long this time. I went around three months before

taking clomid again and at 50mg daily for a week, not much happening.

So far, about seven or eight months on TRT. It helps with joint and muscle pain

and thinking and energy level are better. But it's causing delayed ejaculation

and I don't think the gel is a satisfactory treatment without hcg. As I say,

boys are shrinking, scrotum is tighter. I'm not at all happy about that!

There's lots of SERMS in the biotech companies under developement that will be

out in a few years. I want to be able to take advantage of them. So shutting

down testicles and shrinking them seems like a bad idea.

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Sorry Larry I did not know you were on testim and then stopped it for 2 weeks to

test LH and FSH your to late. When you started Testim your brain stops sending

the LH and FSH messages to the testis to make T and you can be off the meds for

months and not get the LH and FSH to come back up. All you can do now is a HCG

or Clomid stem test. Read this.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/david-z-s-primer-134235700.html\

?highlight=primer+hcg

and this.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/david-z-s-primer-134235701.html\

?highlight=primer+hcg

also there is some info on the stem tests in this link.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

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