Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hello can some one please respond to my problem? > > Hi > I am 35, married and have a healthy son. > I had gyne long back and got it removed by suregery then. It did > not come back. > Now, I have other problems for long. My voice has always been > thin. My body frame is little funny - narrow at the chest, a very > narrow waist, then a broad hip. I am thin. No fat. So, when I say my > hip is wide, I mean the hip bone (not the fat), it had grown wide > like a female. I am 6'2 " tall. When I walk, I have a slight girl > like walk. M libido has always been less, except for sometimes. I > have some problem when at sex, I dont know if its ED or pre-mature > ejaculation. But my semen has enough sperm I think, thats how I had > a son, without any need for any treatment or anything at all. > Though my wife has no problem with me, I am very concerned about > my voice, my body frame, libido, etc. I went thru a lot of > psychiatrists/psychologists bull shit earlier in life. And they did > well to keep me from knowing or suspecting anything related to the > hormones. > Now, I am on testosterone injections for last 3 years (200mg > every 2 weeks). I started it with an endo then. Since I relocated > from there to a far away place (where I am now), I am seeing a new > endo here, and continuing the TRT. My MRI shows no pituitary > problems. > Inspite of 3 years of TRT, I see only very minor changes on me > (gain some weigth on shoulders and chest). All other problems > remian. Mainly I think I am mentally down all the time. I was told > its depression and the psychos will fix it, but I doubt that it is > bcos of the hormones. > > recent test results: > > total testosterone: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800) > free testosterone: 424.7 pg/ml (normal range: 31-160) > free testosterone: 3.3 % (normal range: 1.0 - 3.1) > estradiol: 62 pg/dL > LH: 0.1 mIU/ML > FSH: 0.3 mIU/ML > > The endo said the T and E are too high, so I have to reduce to 150mg > (from 200mg) of T every 2 weeks, and that will help reduce estradiol > conversion and will check in the next appmt 3 months later. > Now, my problem is, why is he not prescribing 'E' suppressants. I > almost end up with a quarrel with him always. He always says I have > no problem this and that bullshit. When I ask questions in depth, he > will say, 'my duty is to get ur hormone levels correct', anything > else is best discussed with a psychiatrist. And the psych has > nothing except to drowse me on anti depressants, which is going on > for 20 years now! > I feel many endos are just total bull shit people. They kill our > energy, money and TIME. Inspite of the too high T level, I feel like > sucking all time. I asked him to give me E suppressants (Arimidix, > etc), he says there is nothing like an Estradiol suppressant > available on earth as far as to his knowledge. Ridiculous. Just wish > I box him. And my testes have hrunk due to long TRT. He knows but > not advising HCG, etc. He is only doing the TRT. Same case with prev > endo too. > > 3 years of TRT has not helped. Means no hope? What to do? > > Thanks for reading the long long post. I am sorry, but I am > suffering a lot and I am not able control my feelings. > > pl see: inspiste of numerous chances, never had a girl friend in > life (I mean before marriage), never dated anyone, feel shy when > with members of opposite sex, have two left legs on a dancing floor, > etc, etc. Thanks to all the PCPs, endos, psychos who had witnessed > all this and treated me all my life telling there is nothing wrong > me at all, and that just I have to sit suck all the time. > > Some one please guide me > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Help can be offered. Them test results are off how long you been on the 200 mg every two weeks? sobermanme <sobermanme@...> wrote: Hello can some one please respond to my problem? > > Hi > I am 35, married and have a healthy son. > I had gyne long back and got it removed by suregery then. It did > not come back. > Now, I have other problems for long. My voice has always been > thin. My body frame is little funny - narrow at the chest, a very > narrow waist, then a broad hip. I am thin. No fat. So, when I say my > hip is wide, I mean the hip bone (not the fat), it had grown wide > like a female. I am 6'2 " tall. When I walk, I have a slight girl > like walk. M libido has always been less, except for sometimes. I > have some problem when at sex, I dont know if its ED or pre-mature > ejaculation. But my semen has enough sperm I think, thats how I had > a son, without any need for any treatment or anything at all. > Though my wife has no problem with me, I am very concerned about > my voice, my body frame, libido, etc. I went thru a lot of > psychiatrists/psychologists bull shit earlier in life. And they did > well to keep me from knowing or suspecting anything related to the > hormones. > Now, I am on testosterone injections for last 3 years (200mg > every 2 weeks). I started it with an endo then. Since I relocated > from there to a far away place (where I am now), I am seeing a new > endo here, and continuing the TRT. My MRI shows no pituitary > problems. > Inspite of 3 years of TRT, I see only very minor changes on me > (gain some weigth on shoulders and chest). All other problems > remian. Mainly I think I am mentally down all the time. I was told > its depression and the psychos will fix it, but I doubt that it is > bcos of the hormones. > > recent test results: > > total testosterone: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800) > free testosterone: 424.7 pg/ml (normal range: 31-160) > free testosterone: 3.3 % (normal range: 1.0 - 3.1) > estradiol: 62 pg/dL > LH: 0.1 mIU/ML > FSH: 0.3 mIU/ML > > The endo said the T and E are too high, so I have to reduce to 150mg > (from 200mg) of T every 2 weeks, and that will help reduce estradiol > conversion and will check in the next appmt 3 months later. > Now, my problem is, why is he not prescribing 'E' suppressants. I > almost end up with a quarrel with him always. He always says I have > no problem this and that bullshit. When I ask questions in depth, he > will say, 'my duty is to get ur hormone levels correct', anything > else is best discussed with a psychiatrist. And the psych has > nothing except to drowse me on anti depressants, which is going on > for 20 years now! > I feel many endos are just total bull shit people. They kill our > energy, money and TIME. Inspite of the too high T level, I feel like > sucking all time. I asked him to give me E suppressants (Arimidix, > etc), he says there is nothing like an Estradiol suppressant > available on earth as far as to his knowledge. Ridiculous. Just wish > I box him. And my testes have hrunk due to long TRT. He knows but > not advising HCG, etc. He is only doing the TRT. Same case with prev > endo too. > > 3 years of TRT has not helped. Means no hope? What to do? > > Thanks for reading the long long post. I am sorry, but I am > suffering a lot and I am not able control my feelings. > > pl see: inspiste of numerous chances, never had a girl friend in > life (I mean before marriage), never dated anyone, feel shy when > with members of opposite sex, have two left legs on a dancing floor, > etc, etc. Thanks to all the PCPs, endos, psychos who had witnessed > all this and treated me all my life telling there is nothing wrong > me at all, and that just I have to sit suck all the time. > > Some one please guide me > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 If I had to guess, this sounds like what the AACE describes as the fertile eunich syndrome. Where there is hypogonadism, yet there is enough viable sperm to father children. I know how you feel about endos. Recently, I had a bad experience with one. My test results showed low LH, FSH and T, there were physical complaints to accompany the low numbers, yet he totally refused to treat me. Many members of this group have had better luck getting treated by an osteopath, an antiaging practitioner or a PCP willing to learn how to treat hypogonadism. To be injected with 200mg or even 150mg of T every two weeks is an outdated practice. The high level of T causes estrogen to increase and you crash from low levels of T in the week before your next injection. I started taking 100mg of Testosterone enanthate once a week, four weeks ago. I feel well. No more fatigue, weakness and body aches. I am also starting to develop some manly urges. The most exciting thing is how it is putting muscle on my body. Your story is almost like mine. Except I am still single. I am only 5'6 " , but I have been underweight all of my life. All of the doctors in my lifetime have never thought to check for hypogonadism. I invite you to read my other posts. They will tell you everything. The state of the art treatment involves proper doses of testosterone taken weekly, control of estrogen levels and HCG to prevent testicular suppression. Only the most cutting edge doctors will do all three things. For me I am on my own, I am " normal " according to doctors. So far, I do not have problems with high estrogen, but I do know the time is coming for me to take low doses of HCG. I am secondary hypogonadal, cause unknown. take care Rey > > Hi > I am 35, married and have a healthy son. > I had gyne long back and got it removed by suregery then. It did > not come back. > Now, I have other problems for long. My voice has always been > thin. My body frame is little funny - narrow at the chest, a very > narrow waist, then a broad hip. I am thin. No fat. So, when I say my > hip is wide, I mean the hip bone (not the fat), it had grown wide > like a female. I am 6'2 " tall. When I walk, I have a slight girl > like walk. M libido has always been less, except for sometimes. I > have some problem when at sex, I dont know if its ED or pre-mature > ejaculation. But my semen has enough sperm I think, thats how I had > a son, without any need for any treatment or anything at all. > Though my wife has no problem with me, I am very concerned about > my voice, my body frame, libido, etc. I went thru a lot of > psychiatrists/psychologists bull shit earlier in life. And they did > well to keep me from knowing or suspecting anything related to the > hormones. > Now, I am on testosterone injections for last 3 years (200mg > every 2 weeks). I started it with an endo then. Since I relocated > from there to a far away place (where I am now), I am seeing a new > endo here, and continuing the TRT. My MRI shows no pituitary > problems. > Inspite of 3 years of TRT, I see only very minor changes on me > (gain some weigth on shoulders and chest). All other problems > remian. Mainly I think I am mentally down all the time. I was told > its depression and the psychos will fix it, but I doubt that it is > bcos of the hormones. > > recent test results: > > total testosterone: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800) > free testosterone: 424.7 pg/ml (normal range: 31-160) > free testosterone: 3.3 % (normal range: 1.0 - 3.1) > estradiol: 62 pg/dL > LH: 0.1 mIU/ML > FSH: 0.3 mIU/ML > > The endo said the T and E are too high, so I have to reduce to 150mg > (from 200mg) of T every 2 weeks, and that will help reduce estradiol > conversion and will check in the next appmt 3 months later. > Now, my problem is, why is he not prescribing 'E' suppressants. I > almost end up with a quarrel with him always. He always says I have > no problem this and that bullshit. When I ask questions in depth, he > will say, 'my duty is to get ur hormone levels correct', anything > else is best discussed with a psychiatrist. And the psych has > nothing except to drowse me on anti depressants, which is going on > for 20 years now! > I feel many endos are just total bull shit people. They kill our > energy, money and TIME. Inspite of the too high T level, I feel like > sucking all time. I asked him to give me E suppressants (Arimidix, > etc), he says there is nothing like an Estradiol suppressant > available on earth as far as to his knowledge. Ridiculous. Just wish > I box him. And my testes have hrunk due to long TRT. He knows but > not advising HCG, etc. He is only doing the TRT. Same case with prev > endo too. > > 3 years of TRT has not helped. Means no hope? What to do? > > Thanks for reading the long long post. I am sorry, but I am > suffering a lot and I am not able control my feelings. > > pl see: inspiste of numerous chances, never had a girl friend in > life (I mean before marriage), never dated anyone, feel shy when > with members of opposite sex, have two left legs on a dancing floor, > etc, etc. Thanks to all the PCPs, endos, psychos who had witnessed > all this and treated me all my life telling there is nothing wrong > me at all, and that just I have to sit suck all the time. > > Some one please guide me > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hi Can I start the ball rolling without answering to all of your concerns / problems? One really needs more information before responding to you properly. You mention bone growth. When you first sought the help of an endorinologist what did you report as your symptoms and which tests did he/she conduct? Can you remember the results? Have you had a grwoth hormone test and other pituitary and hypothalamus tests? Are you under weight - or just thin which many of us here would wish to aim for? What is your BMI (Body Mass Index)? If not sure what is you height and what is you weight now. Has your height altered since puberty? Were you tall as a child? It is easy within the USA to have a male wellbeing test. Have you had sperm tested such as mobility and quanity / quality? Is there any familiar traits for example does any one in your family suffer with similar symptoms, siblings / parents / uncles / aunts? Now, you repeat that 2 endos have prescribed TRT over 3 years. During this time have you mentioned the bone size to either endocrinologist? Have they given you any respoinse to just that question? Have you your blood and other test results over the last 3+ years? What age did you notice symptoms? These are just a few questions you need to answer before you can get a proper response. Look forward to hearing from you and lets see what others say as well. Re: hypo all the way > Hello > can some one please respond to my problem? > > >> >> Hi >> I am 35, married and have a healthy son. >> I had gyne long back and got it removed by suregery then. It > did >> not come back. >> Now, I have other problems for long. My voice has always been >> thin. My body frame is little funny - narrow at the chest, a very >> narrow waist, then a broad hip. I am thin. No fat. So, when I say > my >> hip is wide, I mean the hip bone (not the fat), it had grown wide >> like a female. I am 6'2 " tall. When I walk, I have a slight girl >> like walk. M libido has always been less, except for sometimes. I >> have some problem when at sex, I dont know if its ED or pre-mature >> ejaculation. But my semen has enough sperm I think, thats how I > had >> a son, without any need for any treatment or anything at all. >> Though my wife has no problem with me, I am very concerned > about >> my voice, my body frame, libido, etc. I went thru a lot of >> psychiatrists/psychologists bull shit earlier in life. And they > did >> well to keep me from knowing or suspecting anything related to the >> hormones. >> Now, I am on testosterone injections for last 3 years (200mg >> every 2 weeks). I started it with an endo then. Since I relocated >> from there to a far away place (where I am now), I am seeing a new >> endo here, and continuing the TRT. My MRI shows no pituitary >> problems. >> Inspite of 3 years of TRT, I see only very minor changes on me >> (gain some weigth on shoulders and chest). All other problems >> remian. Mainly I think I am mentally down all the time. I was told >> its depression and the psychos will fix it, but I doubt that it is >> bcos of the hormones. >> >> recent test results: >> >> total testosterone: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800) >> free testosterone: 424.7 pg/ml (normal range: 31-160) >> free testosterone: 3.3 % (normal range: 1.0 - 3.1) >> estradiol: 62 pg/dL >> LH: 0.1 mIU/ML >> FSH: 0.3 mIU/ML >> >> The endo said the T and E are too high, so I have to reduce to > 150mg >> (from 200mg) of T every 2 weeks, and that will help reduce > estradiol >> conversion and will check in the next appmt 3 months later. >> Now, my problem is, why is he not prescribing 'E' suppressants. I >> almost end up with a quarrel with him always. He always says I > have >> no problem this and that bullshit. When I ask questions in depth, > he >> will say, 'my duty is to get ur hormone levels correct', anything >> else is best discussed with a psychiatrist. And the psych has >> nothing except to drowse me on anti depressants, which is going on >> for 20 years now! >> I feel many endos are just total bull shit people. They kill > our >> energy, money and TIME. Inspite of the too high T level, I feel > like >> sucking all time. I asked him to give me E suppressants (Arimidix, >> etc), he says there is nothing like an Estradiol suppressant >> available on earth as far as to his knowledge. Ridiculous. Just > wish >> I box him. And my testes have hrunk due to long TRT. He knows but >> not advising HCG, etc. He is only doing the TRT. Same case with > prev >> endo too. >> >> 3 years of TRT has not helped. Means no hope? What to do? >> >> Thanks for reading the long long post. I am sorry, but I am >> suffering a lot and I am not able control my feelings. >> >> pl see: inspiste of numerous chances, never had a girl friend in >> life (I mean before marriage), never dated anyone, feel shy when >> with members of opposite sex, have two left legs on a dancing > floor, >> etc, etc. Thanks to all the PCPs, endos, psychos who had witnessed >> all this and treated me all my life telling there is nothing wrong >> me at all, and that just I have to sit suck all the time. >> >> Some one please guide me >> > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hi All thanks for all the help. , as you had asked, full information about me is here (sorry this is a long post again, since I have to tell all the info so that it will be useful for anyone helping me out): I said I was seeing an endocrinologist for 2 years and now I am seeing another one. Actually, long back, when I was around 23 itself, I told my psychiatrist that I have these problems. He tested m testo and said it is fine. But on my insistence, he injected few shots of testo. Still I was telling that I am doing bad, then he sent me to an endocrinologist. What I reported as problems to this endo: facial hair is scarce, my hip bones are wide, when I walk it makes me look like a girl walking, (I am told sometimes that I hips move a lot making it look like a lady walk), my voice is like a girl, I had gyne from 13-17 years and was removed by surgery. (I wanted to say more - like all my friends are getting on with girls well, but I am a loner bcos of these problems, and I am not able date anyone, etc, etc - but that is difficult to talk about, so I did not). He did many tests, but I dont remember all of those. He injected a a few testo shots again and then said everything is fine, I should not talk about it anymore. One thing I remember is my estrogen was 26 (normal range is 5 – 30). I said I was concerned, but he said there is nothing to do and it quite fine. But I was feeling bad always. After some years, again on my insistence, my psychiatrist sent me another endo. She did similar tests. I think T was in low normal range, and E was high, same like earlier. She said everything is fine, there is nothing to do, I should just stop thinking about it, and thats it. She refused to do anything. Then after 10 years, I saw a new endo by myself. Tests: testosterone was very low (8.7 – normal range: 9 – 30. E was same like earlier, in the higher range. When I was beginning to give up all hope on endos, she was the first one who said, there is a lot to do, I should not be like this, I should take active treatment, etc. She did an MRI. Said my pituitary was fine, no problem with that at all.Then she started me on 200mg T every two weeks. After 6 months, tests showed the T has gone down further. She said I should change to 300mg once in 3 weeks. (In a ref letter she gave me to show to my family clinic to inject the T, the note was: 'idiopathic hypotestosteronism'). 6 months later again, test showed it was too bad. It was 5 (normal range: 9-30). There was a note 'significant difference' against the T level in the report. Now that endo had moved and another person took over. He told me to go back to the biweekly schedule. Then I moved to the US. There was a gap of 3 months in the shots, since it is a new place. Then I continued the biweekly 20mg with a general physician here. Then I saw an endo here (who is my current endo). Now, I told him all my symptoms – femal like walk, broad hip bone(growing and protruding towards the sides like famales rather than going down as in males), narraw waist, narrow (round like) chest, the gyne prob earlier, then the thin voice, low libido, have erection when doing sex, but I ejaculate too soon, unable to penetrate at all, less facial hair. I came to know about Klinefelter synrome recently, so I asked him if I had it. KS says – long unproportionate limbs, poor upper body, tall (mostly 6'2 " ), gynecomastia, rounded body type, thin voice, less facial hair, shy, etc, etc. All this applies to me very very well. He said K people cannot have babies. What the hell...KS mosaic can have, I told him, and he refused to listen to me. He said there is nothing wrong with my body at all. Whatever I say fall to his deaf ears. He saw my old MRI and said pituitary is quite fine. He asked if I have headaches often. I do not. Not sure why he asked this. He did complete tests again. I have the full test results. Since this post is too long, I will post the full results in my next post immediately following this. He said the T is too high, E is also high, its due to the conversion, so asked me to do 150mg very two weeks, which I started last week. He said this would fix things. I said I am concerned about the high E, and why not he ask me to go for E suppressants. He said there is nothing like E suppressant as to his knowledge, and what he says is the only option available as far to his knowledge. He was like – 'dont ask aymore questions'. My last two endos clearly told me: nothing could be done to improve my voice, hip bone - so I should not talk about it anymore. Reg your questions: Yes I was tall as a child. All my classes (school), I was the tallest. My weight is74 kg, height 6'2 " . I started growing fast around start of puberty. I think I grew too fast in the intial years of puberty. I grew till around 17-19 years of age. After that, no growth. Sorry, I am not very sure about these times. I dont remember too well. But I think I am right, if not not too wrong. Underweight – I dont think so, though I am not sure what is the right weight for my age and height. But my wieght and height are given above. Growth hormone test – no doctor so far talked to me about this at all. Hereditary – yes, my father has some problem! He had gynecomastia and got it removed by surgery (1960 I think). I never knew, until I had it and once my grand-mom told me. He also has a little narrow waist, narrow chest, little broad hip. But he has a lot of wieght. So it did not appear to me at all. Only when I had this problem and came to know he also had it, then I noticed. He never cared to help me go for the gyne removal, or T treatment, whatever. Though he can afford and though he is not bad, he never cared. I dont know about generations earlier to him. Then all my ancestors/siblings are tall. Father: 5'9 " , mother 5'8 " , elder brother 6'3 " , elder sister 5'8 " , only second sister is short (5'3 " ). My grandfathers on either side were 6'0 " . My unlces on either side are tall too. My great grandfather was a tall person too, but his photos look like he never had gyne, and he looks like a strong man. Many of my cousins are tall too. Endocrinologists on my bone size: none of them wants to listen to that. They look at me as if I am mad and stupid! Except for that only endo (prev one) who said, there is nothing that can be done about the hip bones now, since they are fully grown. Age when I noticed the symptoms: right from start of puberty (should be 13-14 years). Last information is, when I was born, the first six months, my legs were twisted and twined with each other. It was to the level that my mother did not carry me around, since it looked quite bad. Then somehow, after 6 months, it got straight and cured without any medical help. I dont know if this has anything related to my hypo problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 yes, eunuch was the word I did not want to hear that I am. But again and again, the more info I read, I feel I am an eunuch. God, this is killing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 I am on the 200 mg Testosterone biweekly inject for last 3 years. There was a gap of 3 months in the beggining of this year. Then once (a year back) for 6 months, I was on 300 mg every 3 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hi Sharkbyte, thanks. I missed your messages ( messenger) I think. I am sorry. Your info is very helpful to me. Please help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Forgot to mention: My current endo has a note on my lab-order sheet reading: hypothyroidism/hypogonadism. He also has given me 'synthroid' tablets for 2 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hi, my test results done 3 months back. Estradiol – 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45) Prolactin – 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 – 17) LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8) FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11) Testosterone – Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800) [there is another entry immediately following which confuses me. But I write it here as such: Testosterone – Total and free: 1303 ng/dL (normal range: 236-1076)] Testosterone – Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal range: 31-160) Testosterone – %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal range: 1.0-3.1) Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13) Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < 10.1) [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it here: Growth hormone (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 ng/ml] IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492) T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8) TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50) (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and 10 do not necessarily indicate hypothyroidism.... " ) On the next forthcoming test he has asked me to go for these tests: PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Hi, Thanks for your more detailed reply. I have copied the lab results and note on Hypothyroidism into this email so it is easie to refer in future postings. Lets see what the others say and I will reply later this week. I do think you need to speak with your Father about his experiences and to try and present a family situation (if only Father and SOn) to your endocrinologist. It may also be worth seeing a Geneticist. WHere are you now? Which country / location. Is your endocrinologist at a Teaching Hospital where other disciplines are researched as well as Endocrinology? The now high T may be an indicator that your problem is not primary Hypogonadism and so you should have had more tests earlier on. Again, can you make contact to requestyour medical notes and lab results so they can be presented to your new or next endocrinologist etc? Take care _________________________________ Hi, my test results done 3 months back. Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45) Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17) LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8) FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11) Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800) [there is another entry immediately following which confuses me. But I write it here as such: Testosterone - Total and free: 1303 ng/dL (normal range: 236-1076)] Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal range: 31-160) Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal range: 1.0-3.1) Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13) Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < 10.1) [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it here: Growth hormone (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 ng/ml] IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492) T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8) TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50) (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and 10 do not necessarily indicate hypothyroidism.... " ) ********************************Forgot to mention: My current endo has a note on my lab-order sheet reading: hypothyroidism/hypogonadism. He also has given me 'synthroid' tablets for 2 months. _____________ On the next forthcoming test he has asked me to go for these tests: PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH. Re: hypo all the way Hi All thanks for all the help. , as you had asked, full information about me is here (sorry this is a long post again, since I have to tell all the info so that it will be useful for anyone helping me out): I said I was seeing an endocrinologist for 2 years and now I am seeing another one. Actually, long back, when I was around 23 itself, I told my psychiatrist that I have these problems. He tested m testo and said it is fine. But on my insistence, he injected few shots of testo. Still I was telling that I am doing bad, then he sent me to an endocrinologist. What I reported as problems to this endo: facial hair is scarce, my hip bones are wide, when I walk it makes me look like a girl walking, (I am told sometimes that I hips move a lot making it look like a lady walk), my voice is like a girl, I had gyne from 13-17 years and was removed by surgery. (I wanted to say more - like all my friends are getting on with girls well, but I am a loner bcos of these problems, and I am not able date anyone, etc, etc - but that is difficult to talk about, so I did not). He did many tests, but I dont remember all of those. He injected a a few testo shots again and then said everything is fine, I should not talk about it anymore. One thing I remember is my estrogen was 26 (normal range is 5 - 30). I said I was concerned, but he said there is nothing to do and it quite fine. But I was feeling bad always. After some years, again on my insistence, my psychiatrist sent me another endo. She did similar tests. I think T was in low normal range, and E was high, same like earlier. She said everything is fine, there is nothing to do, I should just stop thinking about it, and thats it. She refused to do anything. Then after 10 years, I saw a new endo by myself. Tests: testosterone was very low (8.7 - normal range: 9 - 30. E was same like earlier, in the higher range. When I was beginning to give up all hope on endos, she was the first one who said, there is a lot to do, I should not be like this, I should take active treatment, etc. She did an MRI. Said my pituitary was fine, no problem with that at all.Then she started me on 200mg T every two weeks. After 6 months, tests showed the T has gone down further. She said I should change to 300mg once in 3 weeks. (In a ref letter she gave me to show to my family clinic to inject the T, the note was: 'idiopathic hypotestosteronism'). 6 months later again, test showed it was too bad. It was 5 (normal range: 9-30). There was a note 'significant difference' against the T level in the report. Now that endo had moved and another person took over. He told me to go back to the biweekly schedule. Then I moved to the US. There was a gap of 3 months in the shots, since it is a new place. Then I continued the biweekly 20mg with a general physician here. Then I saw an endo here (who is my current endo). Now, I told him all my symptoms - femal like walk, broad hip bone(growing and protruding towards the sides like famales rather than going down as in males), narraw waist, narrow (round like) chest, the gyne prob earlier, then the thin voice, low libido, have erection when doing sex, but I ejaculate too soon, unable to penetrate at all, less facial hair. I came to know about Klinefelter synrome recently, so I asked him if I had it. KS says - long unproportionate limbs, poor upper body, tall (mostly 6'2 " ), gynecomastia, rounded body type, thin voice, less facial hair, shy, etc, etc. All this applies to me very very well. He said K people cannot have babies. What the hell...KS mosaic can have, I told him, and he refused to listen to me. He said there is nothing wrong with my body at all. Whatever I say fall to his deaf ears. He saw my old MRI and said pituitary is quite fine. He asked if I have headaches often. I do not. Not sure why he asked this. He did complete tests again. I have the full test results. Since this post is too long, I will post the full results in my next post immediately following this. He said the T is too high, E is also high, its due to the conversion, so asked me to do 150mg very two weeks, which I started last week. He said this would fix things. I said I am concerned about the high E, and why not he ask me to go for E suppressants. He said there is nothing like E suppressant as to his knowledge, and what he says is the only option available as far to his knowledge. He was like - 'dont ask aymore questions'. My last two endos clearly told me: nothing could be done to improve my voice, hip bone - so I should not talk about it anymore. Reg your questions: Yes I was tall as a child. All my classes (school), I was the tallest. My weight is74 kg, height 6'2 " . I started growing fast around start of puberty. I think I grew too fast in the intial years of puberty. I grew till around 17-19 years of age. After that, no growth. Sorry, I am not very sure about these times. I dont remember too well. But I think I am right, if not not too wrong. Underweight - I dont think so, though I am not sure what is the right weight for my age and height. But my wieght and height are given above. Growth hormone test - no doctor so far talked to me about this at all. Hereditary - yes, my father has some problem! He had gynecomastia and got it removed by surgery (1960 I think). I never knew, until I had it and once my grand-mom told me. He also has a little narrow waist, narrow chest, little broad hip. But he has a lot of wieght. So it did not appear to me at all. Only when I had this problem and came to know he also had it, then I noticed. He never cared to help me go for the gyne removal, or T treatment, whatever. Though he can afford and though he is not bad, he never cared. I dont know about generations earlier to him. Then all my ancestors/siblings are tall. Father: 5'9 " , mother 5'8 " , elder brother 6'3 " , elder sister 5'8 " , only second sister is short (5'3 " ). My grandfathers on either side were 6'0 " . My unlces on either side are tall too. My great grandfather was a tall person too, but his photos look like he never had gyne, and he looks like a strong man. Many of my cousins are tall too. Endocrinologists on my bone size: none of them wants to listen to that. They look at me as if I am mad and stupid! Except for that only endo (prev one) who said, there is nothing that can be done about the hip bones now, since they are fully grown. Age when I noticed the symptoms: right from start of puberty (should be 13-14 years). Last information is, when I was born, the first six months, my legs were twisted and twined with each other. It was to the level that my mother did not carry me around, since it looked quite bad. Then somehow, after 6 months, it got straight and cured without any medical help. I dont know if this has anything related to my hypo problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 You're lucky to have a doctor who was willing to Rx some thyroid meds based on your levels...and lucky to have a lab using the latest guidelines for TSH levels. 2.4 TSH level is high, the vast majority of non-hypo people test in the 1's range. What's missing is your Free T3 levels...ask your doctor (or do it yourself) to add it to the lab request form for a complete picture. T3 is the active hormone, T4 is the reserve. You could have plenty of T4 but some have a conversion problem, so even with high T4 don't get the T3 they need to live. Still, it is exciting that you're doc is treating it for you with your results, I assure you, based on stories in the thyroid group I read, most doctors would send you away. I think thyroid is so related to everything it's insane...my hypogonadism troubles never surfaced until I had my thyroid gland removed and my whole body just fell apart afterwards with poor management by local docs and endos. Fortunately I found Dr. on the net while he was still taking new internet patients, and he's gotten my thyroid and test under control, though we're still fighting screwy Estrogen levels after a year of treatment. Good luck to you! Re: hypo all the way Hi, my test results done 3 months back. Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45) Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17) LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8) FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11) Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800) [there is another entry immediately following which confuses me. But I write it here as such: Testosterone - Total and free: 1303 ng/dL (normal range: 236-1076)] Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal range: 31-160) Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal range: 1.0-3.1) Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13) Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < 10.1) [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it here: Growth hormone (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 ng/ml] IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492) T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8) TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50) (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and 10 do not necessarily indicate hypothyroidism.... " ) On the next forthcoming test he has asked me to go for these tests: PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Hypo thyroidism - has something to do with hypogonadism? I can understand hypogonadism. But hypothyroidism, and about the thyroid realtions to the hormones and manliness, I am coming to know of late only. Does it mean that hypothyroidism is my real problem? Anyway, I am again asking a lay question - is it possible to change the voice/change the hip bone size? Ridiculous as it may sound, I am just feeling too bad. Thats why I am asking. > > You're lucky to have a doctor who was willing to Rx some thyroid meds > based on your levels...and lucky to have a lab using the latest > guidelines for TSH levels. > > 2.4 TSH level is high, the vast majority of non-hypo people test in the > 1's range. What's missing is your Free T3 levels...ask your doctor (or > do it yourself) to add it to the lab request form for a complete > picture. T3 is the active hormone, T4 is the reserve. You could have > plenty of T4 but some have a conversion problem, so even with high T4 > don't get the T3 they need to live. > > Still, it is exciting that you're doc is treating it for you with your > results, I assure you, based on stories in the thyroid group I read, > most doctors would send you away. > > I think thyroid is so related to everything it's insane...my > hypogonadism troubles never surfaced until I had my thyroid gland > removed and my whole body just fell apart afterwards with poor > management by local docs and endos. Fortunately I found Dr. on the > net while he was still taking new internet patients, and he's gotten my > thyroid and test under control, though we're still fighting screwy > Estrogen levels after a year of treatment. > > Good luck to you! > > Re: hypo all the way > > Hi, my test results done 3 months back. > > Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45) > Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17) > LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8) > FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11) > Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800) > [there is another entry immediately following which confuses me. But > I write it here as such: Testosterone - Total and free: 1303 ng/dL > (normal range: 236-1076)] > Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal range: 31-160) > Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal range: 1.0-3.1) > Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13) > Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < 10.1) > [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it here: Growth hormone > (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 ng/ml] > IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492) > T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8) > TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50) > (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and 10 do not necessarily > indicate hypothyroidism.... " ) > > On the next forthcoming test he has asked me to go for these tests: > PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hi thanks. Actually I am trying google search with the info you had provided. But I am not hitting on a proper link yet. The most I could see is a lot of research done related to diabetes. \ Your guidance will be quite helpful - if you have time some time, can you see if you can try the search (I am in Minnesota actually) and tell me any powerful link if you see. thanks hypo > >> > >> Hi, Thanks for your more detailed reply. I have copied the lab > > results and > >> note on Hypothyroidism into this email so it is easie to refer in > > future > >> postings. > >> > >> Lets see what the others say and I will reply later this week. I do > > think > >> you need to speak with your Father about his experiences and to try and > >> present a family situation (if only Father and SOn) to your > > endocrinologist. > >> It may also be worth seeing a Geneticist. > >> > >> WHere are you now? Which country / location. Is your endocrinologist > > at a > >> Teaching Hospital where other disciplines are researched as well as > >> Endocrinology? > >> > >> The now high T may be an indicator that your problem is not primary > >> Hypogonadism and so you should have had more tests earlier on. > > Again, can > >> you make contact to requestyour medical notes and lab results so > > they can be > >> presented to your new or next endocrinologist etc? > >> > >> > >> Take care > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________ > >> Hi, my test results done 3 months back. > >> > >> Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45) > >> Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17) > >> LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8) > >> FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11) > >> Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800) > >> [there is another entry immediately following which confuses me. But > >> I write it here as such: Testosterone - Total and free: 1303 ng/dL > >> (normal range: 236-1076)] > >> Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal range: 31-160) > >> Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal range: 1.0-3.1) > >> Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13) > >> Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < 10.1) > >> [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it here: Growth hormone > >> (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 ng/ml] > >> IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492) > >> T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8) > >> TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50) > >> (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and 10 do not necessarily > >> indicate hypothyroidism.... " ) > >> ********************************Forgot to mention: > >> > >> My current endo has a note on my lab-order sheet reading: > >> hypothyroidism/hypogonadism. He also has given me 'synthroid' tablets > >> for 2 months. > >> _____________ > >> On the next forthcoming test he has asked me to go for these tests: > >> PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH. > >> > >> Re: hypo all the way > >> > >> > >> Hi All > >> thanks for all the help. > >> > >> , as you had asked, full information about me is here (sorry > >> this is a long post again, since I have to tell all the info so that > >> it will be useful for anyone helping me out): > >> > >> I said I was seeing an endocrinologist for 2 years and now I am > >> seeing another one. Actually, long back, when I was around 23 > >> itself, I told my psychiatrist that I have these problems. He tested > >> m testo and said it is fine. But on my insistence, he injected few > >> shots of testo. Still I was telling that I am doing bad, then he > >> sent me to an endocrinologist. What I reported as problems to this > >> endo: facial hair is scarce, my hip bones are wide, when I walk it > >> makes me look like a girl walking, (I am told sometimes that I hips > >> move a lot making it look like a lady walk), my voice is like a > >> girl, I had gyne from 13-17 years and was removed by surgery. (I > >> wanted to say more - like all my friends are getting on with girls > >> well, but I am a loner bcos of these problems, and I am not able > >> date anyone, etc, etc - but that is difficult to talk about, so I > >> did not). He did many tests, but I dont remember all of those. He > >> injected a a few testo shots again and then said everything is fine, > >> I should not talk about it anymore. One thing I remember is my > >> estrogen was 26 (normal range is 5 - 30). I said I was concerned, > >> but he said there is nothing to do and it quite fine. > >> > >> But I was feeling bad always. After some years, again on my > >> insistence, my psychiatrist sent me another endo. She did similar > >> tests. I think T was in low normal range, and E was high, same like > >> earlier. She said everything is fine, there is nothing to do, I > >> should just stop thinking about it, and thats it. She refused to do > >> anything. > >> > >> Then after 10 years, I saw a new endo by myself. Tests: testosterone > >> was very low (8.7 - normal range: 9 - 30. E was same like earlier, > >> in the higher range. When I was beginning to give up all hope on > >> endos, she was the first one who said, there is a lot to do, I > >> should not be like this, I should take active treatment, etc. She > >> did an MRI. Said my pituitary was fine, no problem with that at > >> all.Then she started me on 200mg T every two weeks. After 6 months, > >> tests showed the T has gone down further. She said I should change > >> to 300mg once in 3 weeks. (In a ref letter she gave me to show to my > >> family clinic to inject the T, the note was: 'idiopathic > >> hypotestosteronism'). 6 months later again, test showed it was too > >> bad. It was 5 (normal range: 9-30). There was a note 'significant > >> difference' against the T level in the report. Now that endo had > >> moved and another person took over. He told me to go back to the > >> biweekly schedule. > >> > >> Then I moved to the US. There was a gap of 3 months in the shots, > >> since it is a new place. Then I continued the biweekly 20mg with a > >> general physician here. Then I saw an endo here (who is my current > >> endo). Now, I told him all my symptoms - femal like walk, broad hip > >> bone(growing and protruding towards the sides like famales rather > >> than going down as in males), narraw waist, narrow (round like) > >> chest, the gyne prob earlier, then the thin voice, low libido, have > >> erection when doing sex, but I ejaculate too soon, unable to > >> penetrate at all, less facial hair. I came to know about Klinefelter > >> synrome recently, so I asked him if I had it. KS says - long > >> unproportionate limbs, poor upper body, tall (mostly 6'2 " ), > >> gynecomastia, rounded body type, thin voice, less facial hair, shy, > >> etc, etc. All this applies to me very very well. He said K people > >> cannot have babies. What the hell...KS mosaic can have, I told him, > >> and he refused to listen to me. He said there is nothing wrong with > >> my body at all. Whatever I say fall to his deaf ears. > >> > >> He saw my old MRI and said pituitary is quite fine. He asked if I > >> have headaches often. I do not. Not sure why he asked this. He did > >> complete tests again. I have the full test results. Since this post > >> is too long, I will post the full results in my next post > >> immediately following this. > >> > >> > >> > >> He said the T is too high, E is also high, its due to the > >> conversion, so asked me to do 150mg very two weeks, which I started > >> last week. He said this would fix things. I said I am concerned > >> about the high E, and why not he ask me to go for E suppressants. He > >> said there is nothing like E suppressant as to his knowledge, and > >> what he says is the only option available as far to his knowledge. > >> He was like - 'dont ask aymore questions'. > >> > >> My last two endos clearly told me: nothing could be done to improve > >> my voice, hip bone - so I should not talk about it anymore. > >> > >> Reg your questions: > >> > >> Yes I was tall as a child. All my classes (school), I was the > >> tallest. > >> > >> My weight is74 kg, height 6'2 " . > >> > >> I started growing fast around start of puberty. I think I grew too > >> fast in the intial years of puberty. I grew till around 17-19 years > >> of age. After that, no growth. Sorry, I am not very sure about these > >> times. I dont remember too well. But I think I am right, if not not > >> too wrong. > >> > >> Underweight - I dont think so, though I am not sure what is the > >> right weight for my age and height. But my wieght and height are > >> given above. > >> > >> Growth hormone test - no doctor so far talked to me about this at > >> all. > >> > >> Hereditary - yes, my father has some problem! He had gynecomastia > >> and got it removed by surgery (1960 I think). I never knew, until I > >> had it and once my grand-mom told me. He also has a little narrow > >> waist, narrow chest, little broad hip. But he has a lot of wieght. > >> So it did not appear to me at all. Only when I had this problem and > >> came to know he also had it, then I noticed. He never cared to help > >> me go for the gyne removal, or T treatment, whatever. Though he can > >> afford and though he is not bad, he never cared. > >> I dont know about generations earlier to him. > >> Then all my ancestors/siblings are tall. Father: 5'9 " , mother 5'8 " , > >> elder brother 6'3 " , elder sister 5'8 " , only second sister is short > >> (5'3 " ). My grandfathers on either side were 6'0 " . My unlces on > >> either side are tall too. My great grandfather was a tall person > >> too, but his photos look like he never had gyne, and he looks like a > >> strong man. Many of my cousins are tall too. > >> > >> Endocrinologists on my bone size: none of them wants to listen to > >> that. They look at me as if I am mad and stupid! Except for that > >> only endo (prev one) who said, there is nothing that can be done > >> about the hip bones now, since they are fully grown. > >> > >> Age when I noticed the symptoms: right from start of puberty (should > >> be 13-14 years). > >> > >> Last information is, when I was born, the first six months, my legs > >> were twisted and twined with each other. It was to the level that my > >> mother did not carry me around, since it looked quite bad. Then > >> somehow, after 6 months, it got straight and cured without any > >> medical help. I dont know if this has anything related to my hypo > >> problem. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Guys thanks for all the info. Nice to see there is atleast someone who listens to your voice. The doctors never do it, atleast not to the least of my satisfaction. Now people, I understand shot to gel is not going to get me any big change, if at all. But I dont know what to do. Without the endo's guidance or prescription, what the hell I am going to do. As you say Phil, more help from the endos only brings more misery. But not sure where to turn to too. I read thru Dr.'s site and even exchanged mails with him. I am checking my insurance things and if it is fine, will have to get help from him. Now, as I said, after a long spell of treatment for hypo, I still feel where I started. So I am feeling paranoid, whether any thing better will happen at all, no matter who I see. Something works for some, if not something else. But my case seems to be peculiar....no improvement at all. Anyone come across this kind of thing, no big change for a long time? Also, one last question, if anyone has any info on it. Voice - my voice, though is high. And that gives me all the social anxiety that I can ask for. With 3 years of TRT, it has not changed, and I have not found any thing related to this at all in the internet or anywhere. Guess most people do not have this problem. But if anyone knows, pl throw some light. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi, Thanks for your more detailed reply. I > have copied the lab > >> > > results and > >> > >> note on Hypothyroidism into this email so it > is easie to > >refer > >> in > >> > > future > >> > >> postings. > >> > >> > >> > >> Lets see what the others say and I will reply > later this > >week. > >> I do > >> > > think > >> > >> you need to speak with your Father about his > experiences and > >to > >> try and > >> > >> present a family situation (if only Father and > SOn) to your > >> > > endocrinologist. > >> > >> It may also be worth seeing a Geneticist. > >> > >> > >> > >> WHere are you now? Which country / location. > Is your > >> endocrinologist > >> > > at a > >> > >> Teaching Hospital where other disciplines are > researched as > >> well as > >> > >> Endocrinology? > >> > >> > >> > >> The now high T may be an indicator that your > problem is not > >> primary > >> > >> Hypogonadism and so you should have had more > tests earlier on. > >> > > Again, can > >> > >> you make contact to requestyour medical notes > and lab results > >so > >> > > they can be > >> > >> presented to your new or next endocrinologist > etc? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Take care > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________ > >> > >> Hi, my test results done 3 months back. > >> > >> > >> > >> Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45) > >> > >> Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17) > >> > >> LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8) > >> > >> FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11) > >> > >> Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal > range: 200-800) [there > >> > >> is another entry immediately following which > confuses > >> me. But > >> > >> I write it here as such: Testosterone - Total > and free: 1303 > >> ng/dL > >> > >> (normal range: 236-1076)] > >> > >> Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal > range: 31-160) > >> > >> Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal > range: 1.0-3.1) > >> > >> Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13) > >> > >> Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < > 10.1) > >> > >> [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it > here: Growth > >hormone > >> > >> (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 > ng/ml] > >> > >> IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492) > >> > >> T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8) > >> > >> TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50) > >> > >> (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and > 10 do not > >> necessarily > >> > >> indicate hypothyroidism.... " ) > >> > >> ********************************Forgot to > mention: > >> > >> > >> > >> My current endo has a note on my lab-order > sheet reading: > >> > >> hypothyroidism/hypogonadism. He also has given > me 'synthroid' > >> tablets > >> > >> for 2 months. > >> > >> _____________ > >> > >> On the next forthcoming test he has asked me > to go for these > >> tests: > >> > >> PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH. > >> > >> > >> > >> Re: hypo all the way > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi All > >> > >> thanks for all the help. > >> > >> > >> > >> , as you had asked, full information > about me is here > >> (sorry > >> > >> this is a long post again, since I have to > tell all the info > >so > >> that > >> > >> it will be useful for anyone helping me out): > >> > >> > >> > >> I said I was seeing an endocrinologist for 2 > years and now > >I > >> am > >> > >> seeing another one. Actually, long back, when > I was around 23 > >> > >> itself, I told my psychiatrist that I have > these problems. He > >> tested > >> > >> m testo and said it is fine. But on my > insistence, he > >injected > >> few > >> > >> shots of testo. Still I was telling that I am > doing bad, then > >he > >> > >> sent me to an endocrinologist. What I reported > as problems to > >> this > >> > >> endo: facial hair is scarce, my hip bones are > wide, when I > >walk > >> it > >> > >> makes me look like a girl walking, (I am told > sometimes that > >I > >> hips > >> > >> move a lot making it look like a lady walk), > my voice is like > >a > >> > >> girl, I had gyne from 13-17 years and was > removed by surgery. > >(I > >> > >> wanted to say more - like all my friends are > getting on with > >> girls > >> > >> well, but I am a loner bcos of these problems, > and I am not > >> able > >> > >> date anyone, etc, etc - but that is difficult > to talk about, > >so > >> I > >> > >> did not). He did many tests, but I dont > remember all of > >those. > >> He > >> > >> injected a a few testo shots again and then > said everything > >is > >> fine, > >> > >> I should not talk about it anymore. One thing > I remember is my > >> > >> estrogen was 26 (normal range is 5 - 30). I > said I was > >> concerned, > >> > >> but he said there is nothing to do and it > quite fine. > >> > >> > >> > >> But I was feeling bad always. After some > years, again on my > >> > >> insistence, my psychiatrist sent me another > endo. She did > >> similar > >> > >> tests. I think T was in low normal range, and > E was high, > >same > >> like > >> > >> earlier. She said everything is fine, there is > nothing to do, > >I > >> > >> should just stop thinking about it, and thats > it. She refused > >> to do > >> > >> anything. > >> > >> > >> > >> Then after 10 years, I saw a new endo by > myself. Tests: > >> testosterone > >> > >> was very low (8.7 - normal range: 9 - 30. E > was same like > >> earlier, > >> > >> in the higher range. When I was beginning to > give up all hope > >on > >> > >> endos, she was the first one who said, there > is a lot to do, I > >> > >> should not be like this, I should take active > treatment, etc. > >> She > >> > >> did an MRI. Said my pituitary was fine, no > problem with that > >at > >> > >> all.Then she started me on 200mg T every two > weeks. After 6 > >> months, > >> > >> tests showed the T has gone down further. She > said I should > >> change > >> > >> to 300mg once in 3 weeks. (In a ref letter she > gave me to > >show > >> to my > >> > >> family clinic to inject the T, the note was: > 'idiopathic > >> > >> hypotestosteronism'). 6 months later again, > test showed it > >was > >> too > >> > >> bad. It was 5 (normal range: 9-30). There was > a > >> note 'significant > >> > >> difference' against the T level in the report. > Now that endo > >had > >> > >> moved and another person took over. He told me > to go back to > >the > >> > >> biweekly schedule. > >> > >> > >> > >> Then I moved to the US. There was a gap of 3 > months in the > >> shots, > >> > >> since it is a new place. Then I continued the > biweekly 20mg > >> with a > >> > >> general physician here. Then I saw an endo > here (who is my > >> current > >> > >> endo). Now, I told him all my symptoms - femal > like walk, > >broad > >> hip > >> > >> bone(growing and protruding towards the sides > like famales > >> rather > >> > >> than going down as in males), narraw waist, > narrow (round > >like) > >> > >> chest, the gyne prob earlier, then the thin > voice, low > >libido, > >> have > >> > >> erection when doing sex, but I ejaculate too > soon, unable to > >> > >> penetrate at all, less facial hair. I came to > know about > >> Klinefelter > >> > >> synrome recently, so I asked him if I had it. > KS says - long > >> > >> unproportionate limbs, poor upper body, tall > (mostly 6'2 " ), > >> > >> gynecomastia, rounded body type, thin voice, > less facial > >hair, > >> shy, > >> > >> etc, etc. All this applies to me very very > well. He said K > >> people > >> > >> cannot have babies. What the hell...KS mosaic > can have, I > >told > >> him, > >> > >> and he refused to listen to me. He said there > is nothing > >wrong > >> with > >> > >> my body at all. Whatever I say fall to his > deaf ears. > >> > >> > >> > >> He saw my old MRI and said pituitary is quite > fine. He asked > >if > >> I > >> > >> have headaches often. I do not. Not sure why > he asked this. > >He > >> did > >> > >> complete tests again. I have the full test > results. Since > >this > >> post > >> > >> is too long, I will post the full results in > my next post > >> > >> immediately following this. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> He said the T is too high, E is also high, its > due to the > >> > >> conversion, so asked me to do 150mg very two > weeks, which I > >> started > >> > >> last week. He said this would fix things. I > said I am > >concerned > >> > >> about the high E, and why not he ask me to go > for E > >> suppressants. He > >> > >> said there is nothing like E suppressant as to > his knowledge, > >> and > >> > >> what he says is the only option available as > far to his > >> knowledge. > >> > >> He was like - 'dont ask aymore questions'. > >> > >> > >> > >> My last two endos clearly told me: nothing > could be done to > >> improve > >> > >> my voice, hip bone - so I should not talk > about it anymore. > >> > >> > >> > >> Reg your questions: > >> > >> > >> > >> Yes I was tall as a child. All my classes > (school), I was the > >> > >> tallest. > >> > >> > >> > >> My weight is74 kg, height 6'2 " . > >> > >> > >> > >> I started growing fast around start of > puberty. I think I > >grew > >> too > >> > >> fast in the intial years of puberty. I grew > till around 17-19 > >> years > >> > >> of age. After that, no growth. Sorry, I am not > very sure > >about > >> these > >> > >> times. I dont remember too well. But I think I > am right, if > >not > >> not > >> > >> too wrong. > >> > >> > >> > >> Underweight - I dont think so, though I am not > sure what is > >the > >> > >> right weight for my age and height. But my > wieght and height > >are > >> > >> given above. > >> > >> > >> > >> Growth hormone test - no doctor so far talked > to me about > >this > >> at > >> > >> all. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hereditary - yes, my father has some problem! > He had > >> gynecomastia > >> > >> and got it removed by surgery (1960 I think). > I never knew, > >> until I > >> > >> had it and once my grand-mom told me. He also > has a little > >> narrow > >> > >> waist, narrow chest, little broad hip. But he > has a lot of > >> wieght. > >> > >> So it did not appear to me at all. Only when I > had this > >problem > >> and > >> > >> came to know he also had it, then I noticed. > He never cared > >to > >> help > >> > >> me go for the gyne removal, or T treatment, > whatever. Though > >he > >> can > >> > >> afford and though he is not bad, he never > cared. > >> > >> I dont know about generations earlier to him. > >> > >> Then all my ancestors/siblings are tall. > Father: 5'9 " , mother > >> 5'8 " , > >> > >> elder brother 6'3 " , elder sister 5'8 " , only > second sister is > >> short > >> > >> (5'3 " ). My grandfathers on either side were > 6'0 " . My unlces on > >> > >> either side are tall too. My great grandfather > was a tall > >person > >> > >> too, but his photos look like he never had > gyne, and he looks > >> like a > >> > >> strong man. Many of my cousins are tall too. > >> > >> > >> > >> Endocrinologists on my bone size: none of them > wants to > >listen > >> to > >> > >> that. They look at me as if I am mad and > stupid! Except for > >that > >> > >> only endo (prev one) who said, there is > nothing that can be > >done > >> > >> about the hip bones now, since they are fully > grown. > >> > >> > >> > >> Age when I noticed the symptoms: right from > start of puberty > >> (should > >> > >> be 13-14 years). > >> > >> > >> > >> Last information is, when I was born, the > first six months, > >my > >> legs > >> > >> were twisted and twined with each other. It > was to the level > >> that my > >> > >> mother did not carry me around, since it > looked quite bad. > >Then > >> > >> somehow, after 6 months, it got straight and > cured without any > >> > >> medical help. I dont know if this has anything > related to my > >> hypo > >> > >> problem. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Phil my doctor to work with Dr. - you mean my endo or any general physician. Because I am not sure if my endo agrees to work that way. And when I have my doctor work with Dr., then I dont have to go to MI to do my tests and all work ups? > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Hi, Thanks for your more detailed reply. I > > have copied the lab > > >> > > results and > > >> > >> note on Hypothyroidism into this email so it > > is easie to > > >refer > > >> in > > >> > > future > > >> > >> postings. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Lets see what the others say and I will reply > > later this > > >week. > > >> I do > > >> > > think > > >> > >> you need to speak with your Father about his > > experiences and > > >to > > >> try and > > >> > >> present a family situation (if only Father and > > SOn) to your > > >> > > endocrinologist. > > >> > >> It may also be worth seeing a Geneticist. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> WHere are you now? Which country / location. > > Is your > > >> endocrinologist > > >> > > at a > > >> > >> Teaching Hospital where other disciplines are > > researched as > > >> well as > > >> > >> Endocrinology? > > >> > >> > > >> > >> The now high T may be an indicator that your > > problem is not > > >> primary > > >> > >> Hypogonadism and so you should have had more > > tests earlier on. > > >> > > Again, can > > >> > >> you make contact to requestyour medical notes > > and lab results > > >so > > >> > > they can be > > >> > >> presented to your new or next endocrinologist > > etc? > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Take care > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> _________________________________ > > >> > >> Hi, my test results done 3 months back. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45) > > >> > >> Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17) > > >> > >> LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8) > > >> > >> FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11) > > >> > >> Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal > > range: 200-800) [there > > >> > >> is another entry immediately following which > > confuses > > >> me. But > > >> > >> I write it here as such: Testosterone - Total > > and free: 1303 > > >> ng/dL > > >> > >> (normal range: 236-1076)] > > >> > >> Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal > > range: 31-160) > > >> > >> Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal > > range: 1.0-3.1) > > >> > >> Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13) > > >> > >> Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < > > 10.1) > > >> > >> [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it > > here: Growth > > >hormone > > >> > >> (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 > > ng/ml] > > >> > >> IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492) > > >> > >> T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8) > > >> > >> TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50) > > >> > >> (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and > > 10 do not > > >> necessarily > > >> > >> indicate hypothyroidism.... " ) > > >> > >> ********************************Forgot to > > mention: > > >> > >> > > >> > >> My current endo has a note on my lab-order > > sheet reading: > > >> > >> hypothyroidism/hypogonadism. He also has given > > me 'synthroid' > > >> tablets > > >> > >> for 2 months. > > >> > >> _____________ > > >> > >> On the next forthcoming test he has asked me > > to go for these > > >> tests: > > >> > >> PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Re: hypo all the way > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Hi All > > >> > >> thanks for all the help. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> , as you had asked, full information > > about me is here > > >> (sorry > > >> > >> this is a long post again, since I have to > > tell all the info > > >so > > >> that > > >> > >> it will be useful for anyone helping me out): > > >> > >> > > >> > >> I said I was seeing an endocrinologist for 2 > > years and now > > >I > > >> am > > >> > >> seeing another one. Actually, long back, when > > I was around 23 > > >> > >> itself, I told my psychiatrist that I have > > these problems. He > > >> tested > > >> > >> m testo and said it is fine. But on my > > insistence, he > > >injected > > >> few > > >> > >> shots of testo. Still I was telling that I am > > doing bad, then > > >he > > >> > >> sent me to an endocrinologist. What I reported > > as problems to > > >> this > > >> > >> endo: facial hair is scarce, my hip bones are > > wide, when I > > >walk > > >> it > > >> > >> makes me look like a girl walking, (I am told > > sometimes that > > >I > > >> hips > > >> > >> move a lot making it look like a lady walk), > > my voice is like > > >a > > >> > >> girl, I had gyne from 13-17 years and was > > removed by surgery. > > >(I > > >> > >> wanted to say more - like all my friends are > > getting on with > > >> girls > > >> > >> well, but I am a loner bcos of these problems, > > and I am not > > >> able > > >> > >> date anyone, etc, etc - but that is difficult > > to talk about, > > >so > > >> I > > >> > >> did not). He did many tests, but I dont > > remember all of > > >those. > > >> He > > >> > >> injected a a few testo shots again and then > > said everything > > >is > > >> fine, > > >> > >> I should not talk about it anymore. One thing > > I remember is my > > >> > >> estrogen was 26 (normal range is 5 - 30). I > > said I was > > >> concerned, > > >> > >> but he said there is nothing to do and it > > quite fine. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> But I was feeling bad always. After some > > years, again on my > > >> > >> insistence, my psychiatrist sent me another > > endo. She did > > >> similar > > >> > >> tests. I think T was in low normal range, and > > E was high, > > >same > > >> like > > >> > >> earlier. She said everything is fine, there is > > nothing to do, > > >I > > >> > >> should just stop thinking about it, and thats > > it. She refused > > >> to do > > >> > >> anything. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Then after 10 years, I saw a new endo by > > myself. Tests: > > >> testosterone > > >> > >> was very low (8.7 - normal range: 9 - 30. E > > was same like > > >> earlier, > > >> > >> in the higher range. When I was beginning to > > give up all hope > > >on > > >> > >> endos, she was the first one who said, there > > is a lot to do, I > > >> > >> should not be like this, I should take active > > treatment, etc. > > >> She > > >> > >> did an MRI. Said my pituitary was fine, no > > problem with that > > >at > > >> > >> all.Then she started me on 200mg T every two > > weeks. After 6 > > >> months, > > >> > >> tests showed the T has gone down further. She > > said I should > > >> change > > >> > >> to 300mg once in 3 weeks. (In a ref letter she > > gave me to > > >show > > >> to my > > >> > >> family clinic to inject the T, the note was: > > 'idiopathic > > >> > >> hypotestosteronism'). 6 months later again, > > test showed it > > >was > > >> too > > >> > >> bad. It was 5 (normal range: 9-30). There was > > a > > >> note 'significant > > >> > >> difference' against the T level in the report. > > Now that endo > > >had > > >> > >> moved and another person took over. He told me > > to go back to > > >the > > >> > >> biweekly schedule. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Then I moved to the US. There was a gap of 3 > > months in the > > >> shots, > > >> > >> since it is a new place. Then I continued the > > biweekly 20mg > > >> with a > > >> > >> general physician here. Then I saw an endo > > here (who is my > > >> current > > >> > >> endo). Now, I told him all my symptoms - femal > > like walk, > > >broad > > >> hip > > >> > >> bone(growing and protruding towards the sides > > like famales > > >> rather > > >> > >> than going down as in males), narraw waist, > > narrow (round > > >like) > > >> > >> chest, the gyne prob earlier, then the thin > > voice, low > > >libido, > > >> have > > >> > >> erection when doing sex, but I ejaculate too > > soon, unable to > > >> > >> penetrate at all, less facial hair. I came to > > know about > > >> Klinefelter > > >> > >> synrome recently, so I asked him if I had it. > > KS says - long > > >> > >> unproportionate limbs, poor upper body, tall > > (mostly 6'2 " ), > > >> > >> gynecomastia, rounded body type, thin voice, > > less facial > > >hair, > > >> shy, > > >> > >> etc, etc. All this applies to me very very > > well. He said K > > >> people > > >> > >> cannot have babies. What the hell...KS mosaic > > can have, I > > >told > > >> him, > > >> > >> and he refused to listen to me. He said there > > is nothing > > >wrong > > >> with > > >> > >> my body at all. Whatever I say fall to his > > deaf ears. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> He saw my old MRI and said pituitary is quite > > fine. He asked > > >if > > >> I > > >> > >> have headaches often. I do not. Not sure why > > he asked this. > > >He > > >> did > > >> > >> complete tests again. I have the full test > > results. Since > > >this > > >> post > > >> > >> is too long, I will post the full results in > > my next post > > >> > >> immediately following this. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> He said the T is too high, E is also high, its > > due to the > > >> > >> conversion, so asked me to do 150mg very two > > weeks, which I > > >> started > > >> > >> last week. He said this would fix things. I > > said I am > > >concerned > > >> > >> about the high E, and why not he ask me to go > > for E > > >> suppressants. He > > >> > >> said there is nothing like E suppressant as to > > his knowledge, > > >> and > > >> > >> what he says is the only option available as > > far to his > > >> knowledge. > > >> > >> He was like - 'dont ask aymore questions'. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> My last two endos clearly told me: nothing > > could be done to > > >> improve > > >> > >> my voice, hip bone - so I should not talk > > about it anymore. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Reg your questions: > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Yes I was tall as a child. All my classes > > (school), I was the > > >> > >> tallest. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> My weight is74 kg, height 6'2 " . > > >> > >> > > >> > >> I started growing fast around start of > > puberty. I think I > > >grew > > >> too > > >> > >> fast in the intial years of puberty. I grew > > till around 17-19 > > >> years > > >> > >> of age. After that, no growth. Sorry, I am not > > very sure > > >about > > >> these > > >> > >> times. I dont remember too well. But I think I > > am right, if > > >not > > >> not > > >> > >> too wrong. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Underweight - I dont think so, though I am not > > sure what is > > >the > > >> > >> right weight for my age and height. But my > > wieght and height > > >are > > >> > >> given above. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Growth hormone test - no doctor so far talked > > to me about > > >this > > >> at > > >> > >> all. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Hereditary - yes, my father has some problem! > > He had > > >> gynecomastia > > >> > >> and got it removed by surgery (1960 I think). > > I never knew, > > >> until I > > >> > >> had it and once my grand-mom told me. He also > > has a little > > >> narrow > > >> > >> waist, narrow chest, little broad hip. But he > > has a lot of > > >> wieght. > > >> > >> So it did not appear to me at all. Only when I > > had this > > >problem > > >> and > > >> > >> came to know he also had it, then I noticed. > > He never cared > > >to > > >> help > > >> > >> me go for the gyne removal, or T treatment, > > whatever. Though > > >he > > >> can > > >> > >> afford and though he is not bad, he never > > cared. > > >> > >> I dont know about generations earlier to him. > > >> > >> Then all my ancestors/siblings are tall. > > Father: 5'9 " , mother > > >> 5'8 " , > > >> > >> elder brother 6'3 " , elder sister 5'8 " , only > > second sister is > > >> short > > >> > >> (5'3 " ). My grandfathers on either side were > > 6'0 " . My unlces on > > >> > >> either side are tall too. My great grandfather > > was a tall > > >person > > >> > >> too, but his photos look like he never had > > gyne, and he looks > > >> like a > > >> > >> strong man. Many of my cousins are tall too. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Endocrinologists on my bone size: none of them > > wants to > > >listen > > >> to > > >> > >> that. They look at me as if I am mad and > > stupid! Except for > > >that > > >> > >> only endo (prev one) who said, there is > > nothing that can be > > >done > > >> > >> about the hip bones now, since they are fully > > grown. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Age when I noticed the symptoms: right from > > start of puberty > > >> (should > > >> > >> be 13-14 years). > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Last information is, when I was born, the > > first six months, > > >my > > >> legs > > >> > >> were twisted and twined with each other. It > > was to the level > > >> that my > > >> > >> mother did not carry me around, since it > > looked quite bad. > > >Then > > >> > >> somehow, after 6 months, it got straight and > > cured without any > > >> > >> medical help. I dont know if this has anything > > related to my > > >> hypo > > >> > >> problem. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 No not with the Endo Dr. feels they are the worst for low T get your family Dr. to work with him. He will order the tests and read them and tell your Dr. how to treat you. Your Dr. will do the testing and your heath care will pay for it. But you have to pay Dr. to do this and he does not take health care but his price is about the same as a co-payment. He will do this over the phone. Read about at his site. Or E-mail him and find out how to do this. He trains a lot of Dr.'s on TRT. Phil m_singaram <no_reply > wrote: Phil my doctor to work with Dr. - you mean my endo or any general physician. Because I am not sure if my endo agrees to work that way. And when I have my doctor work with Dr., then I dont have to go to MI to do my tests and all work ups? > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Hi, Thanks for your more detailed reply. I > > have copied the lab > > >> > > results and > > >> > >> note on Hypothyroidism into this email so it > > is easie to > > >refer > > >> in > > >> > > future > > >> > >> postings. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Lets see what the others say and I will reply > > later this > > >week. > > >> I do > > >> > > think > > >> > >> you need to speak with your Father about his > > experiences and > > >to > > >> try and > > >> > >> present a family situation (if only Father and > > SOn) to your > > >> > > endocrinologist. > > >> > >> It may also be worth seeing a Geneticist. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> WHere are you now? Which country / location. > > Is your > > >> endocrinologist > > >> > > at a > > >> > >> Teaching Hospital where other disciplines are > > researched as > > >> well as > > >> > >> Endocrinology? > > >> > >> > > >> > >> The now high T may be an indicator that your > > problem is not > > >> primary > > >> > >> Hypogonadism and so you should have had more > > tests earlier on. > > >> > > Again, can > > >> > >> you make contact to requestyour medical notes > > and lab results > > >so > > >> > > they can be > > >> > >> presented to your new or next endocrinologist > > etc? > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Take care > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> _________________________________ > > >> > >> Hi, my test results done 3 months back. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45) > > >> > >> Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17) > > >> > >> LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8) > > >> > >> FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11) > > >> > >> Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal > > range: 200-800) [there > > >> > >> is another entry immediately following which > > confuses > > >> me. But > > >> > >> I write it here as such: Testosterone - Total > > and free: 1303 > > >> ng/dL > > >> > >> (normal range: 236-1076)] > > >> > >> Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal > > range: 31-160) > > >> > >> Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal > > range: 1.0-3.1) > > >> > >> Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13) > > >> > >> Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < > > 10.1) > > >> > >> [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it > > here: Growth > > >hormone > > >> > >> (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 > > ng/ml] > > >> > >> IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492) > > >> > >> T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8) > > >> > >> TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50) > > >> > >> (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and > > 10 do not > > >> necessarily > > >> > >> indicate hypothyroidism.... " ) > > >> > >> ********************************Forgot to > > mention: > > >> > >> > > >> > >> My current endo has a note on my lab-order > > sheet reading: > > >> > >> hypothyroidism/hypogonadism. He also has given > > me 'synthroid' > > >> tablets > > >> > >> for 2 months. > > >> > >> _____________ > > >> > >> On the next forthcoming test he has asked me > > to go for these > > >> tests: > > >> > >> PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Re: hypo all the way > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Hi All > > >> > >> thanks for all the help. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> , as you had asked, full information > > about me is here > > >> (sorry > > >> > >> this is a long post again, since I have to > > tell all the info > > >so > > >> that > > >> > >> it will be useful for anyone helping me out): > > >> > >> > > >> > >> I said I was seeing an endocrinologist for 2 > > years and now > > >I > > >> am > > >> > >> seeing another one. Actually, long back, when > > I was around 23 > > >> > >> itself, I told my psychiatrist that I have > > these problems. He > > >> tested > > >> > >> m testo and said it is fine. But on my > > insistence, he > > >injected > > >> few > > >> > >> shots of testo. Still I was telling that I am > > doing bad, then > > >he > > >> > >> sent me to an endocrinologist. What I reported > > as problems to > > >> this > > >> > >> endo: facial hair is scarce, my hip bones are > > wide, when I > > >walk > > >> it > > >> > >> makes me look like a girl walking, (I am told > > sometimes that > > >I > > >> hips > > >> > >> move a lot making it look like a lady walk), > > my voice is like > > >a > > >> > >> girl, I had gyne from 13-17 years and was > > removed by surgery. > > >(I > > >> > >> wanted to say more - like all my friends are > > getting on with > > >> girls > > >> > >> well, but I am a loner bcos of these problems, > > and I am not > > >> able > > >> > >> date anyone, etc, etc - but that is difficult > > to talk about, > > >so > > >> I > > >> > >> did not). He did many tests, but I dont > > remember all of > > >those. > > >> He > > >> > >> injected a a few testo shots again and then > > said everything > > >is > > >> fine, > > >> > >> I should not talk about it anymore. One thing > > I remember is my > > >> > >> estrogen was 26 (normal range is 5 - 30). I > > said I was > > >> concerned, > > >> > >> but he said there is nothing to do and it > > quite fine. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> But I was feeling bad always. After some > > years, again on my > > >> > >> insistence, my psychiatrist sent me another > > endo. She did > > >> similar > > >> > >> tests. I think T was in low normal range, and > > E was high, > > >same > > >> like > > >> > >> earlier. She said everything is fine, there is > > nothing to do, > > >I > > >> > >> should just stop thinking about it, and thats > > it. She refused > > >> to do > > >> > >> anything. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Then after 10 years, I saw a new endo by > > myself. Tests: > > >> testosterone > > >> > >> was very low (8.7 - normal range: 9 - 30. E > > was same like > > >> earlier, > > >> > >> in the higher range. When I was beginning to > > give up all hope > > >on > > >> > >> endos, she was the first one who said, there > > is a lot to do, I > > >> > >> should not be like this, I should take active > > treatment, etc. > > >> She > > >> > >> did an MRI. Said my pituitary was fine, no > > problem with that > > >at > > >> > >> all.Then she started me on 200mg T every two > > weeks. After 6 > > >> months, > > >> > >> tests showed the T has gone down further. She > > said I should > > >> change > > >> > >> to 300mg once in 3 weeks. (In a ref letter she > > gave me to > > >show > > >> to my > > >> > >> family clinic to inject the T, the note was: > > 'idiopathic > > >> > >> hypotestosteronism'). 6 months later again, > > test showed it > > >was > > >> too > > >> > >> bad. It was 5 (normal range: 9-30). There was > > a > > >> note 'significant > > >> > >> difference' against the T level in the report. > > Now that endo > > >had > > >> > >> moved and another person took over. He told me > > to go back to > > >the > > >> > >> biweekly schedule. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Then I moved to the US. There was a gap of 3 > > months in the > > >> shots, > > >> > >> since it is a new place. Then I continued the > > biweekly 20mg > > >> with a > > >> > >> general physician here. Then I saw an endo > > here (who is my > > >> current > > >> > >> endo). Now, I told him all my symptoms - femal > > like walk, > > >broad > > >> hip > > >> > >> bone(growing and protruding towards the sides > > like famales > > >> rather > > >> > >> than going down as in males), narraw waist, > > narrow (round > > >like) > > >> > >> chest, the gyne prob earlier, then the thin > > voice, low > > >libido, > > >> have > > >> > >> erection when doing sex, but I ejaculate too > > soon, unable to > > >> > >> penetrate at all, less facial hair. I came to > > know about > > >> Klinefelter > > >> > >> synrome recently, so I asked him if I had it. > > KS says - long > > >> > >> unproportionate limbs, poor upper body, tall > > (mostly 6'2 " ), > > >> > >> gynecomastia, rounded body type, thin voice, > > less facial > > >hair, > > >> shy, > > >> > >> etc, etc. All this applies to me very very > > well. He said K > > >> people > > >> > >> cannot have babies. What the hell...KS mosaic > > can have, I > > >told > > >> him, > > >> > >> and he refused to listen to me. He said there > > is nothing > > >wrong > > >> with > > >> > >> my body at all. Whatever I say fall to his > > deaf ears. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> He saw my old MRI and said pituitary is quite > > fine. He asked > > >if > > >> I > > >> > >> have headaches often. I do not. Not sure why > > he asked this. > > >He > > >> did > > >> > >> complete tests again. I have the full test > > results. Since > > >this > > >> post > > >> > >> is too long, I will post the full results in > > my next post > > >> > >> immediately following this. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> He said the T is too high, E is also high, its > > due to the > > >> > >> conversion, so asked me to do 150mg very two > > weeks, which I > > >> started > > >> > >> last week. He said this would fix things. I > > said I am > > >concerned > > >> > >> about the high E, and why not he ask me to go > > for E > > >> suppressants. He > > >> > >> said there is nothing like E suppressant as to > > his knowledge, > > >> and > > >> > >> what he says is the only option available as > > far to his > > >> knowledge. > > >> > >> He was like - 'dont ask aymore questions'. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> My last two endos clearly told me: nothing > > could be done to > > >> improve > > >> > >> my voice, hip bone - so I should not talk > > about it anymore. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Reg your questions: > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Yes I was tall as a child. All my classes > > (school), I was the > > >> > >> tallest. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> My weight is74 kg, height 6'2 " . > > >> > >> > > >> > >> I started growing fast around start of > > puberty. I think I > > >grew > > >> too > > >> > >> fast in the intial years of puberty. I grew > > till around 17-19 > > >> years > > >> > >> of age. After that, no growth. Sorry, I am not > > very sure > > >about > > >> these > > >> > >> times. I dont remember too well. But I think I > > am right, if > > >not > > >> not > > >> > >> too wrong. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Underweight - I dont think so, though I am not > > sure what is > > >the > > >> > >> right weight for my age and height. But my > > wieght and height > > >are > > >> > >> given above. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Growth hormone test - no doctor so far talked > > to me about > > >this > > >> at > > >> > >> all. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Hereditary - yes, my father has some problem! > > He had > > >> gynecomastia > > >> > >> and got it removed by surgery (1960 I think). > > I never knew, > > >> until I > > >> > >> had it and once my grand-mom told me. He also > > has a little > > >> narrow > > >> > >> waist, narrow chest, little broad hip. But he > > has a lot of > > >> wieght. > > >> > >> So it did not appear to me at all. Only when I > > had this > > >problem > > >> and > > >> > >> came to know he also had it, then I noticed. > > He never cared > > >to > > >> help > > >> > >> me go for the gyne removal, or T treatment, > > whatever. Though > > >he > > >> can > > >> > >> afford and though he is not bad, he never > > cared. > > >> > >> I dont know about generations earlier to him. > > >> > >> Then all my ancestors/siblings are tall. > > Father: 5'9 " , mother > > >> 5'8 " , > > >> > >> elder brother 6'3 " , elder sister 5'8 " , only > > second sister is > > >> short > > >> > >> (5'3 " ). My grandfathers on either side were > > 6'0 " . My unlces on > > >> > >> either side are tall too. My great grandfather > > was a tall > > >person > > >> > >> too, but his photos look like he never had > > gyne, and he looks > > >> like a > > >> > >> strong man. Many of my cousins are tall too. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Endocrinologists on my bone size: none of them > > wants to > > >listen > > >> to > > >> > >> that. They look at me as if I am mad and > > stupid! Except for > > >that > > >> > >> only endo (prev one) who said, there is > > nothing that can be > > >done > > >> > >> about the hip bones now, since they are fully > > grown. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Age when I noticed the symptoms: right from > > start of puberty > > >> (should > > >> > >> be 13-14 years). > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Last information is, when I was born, the > > first six months, > > >my > > >> legs > > >> > >> were twisted and twined with each other. It > > was to the level > > >> that my > > >> > >> mother did not carry me around, since it > > looked quite bad. > > >Then > > >> > >> somehow, after 6 months, it got straight and > > cured without any > > >> > >> medical help. I dont know if this has anything > > related to my > > >> hypo > > >> > >> problem. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 01:13:49 -0000, you wrote: >After long spell of TRT, my T levels rocketed to 1300+ (from below >normal), free T to 800+, E to 60+. Now I am on fasting! My endo has >asked me to give a break for 6 weeks to see what happens, and on an >intermediate test, the T had dropped to 260+ and E to 16. However, >even when on the highest levels, I never felt better. So was wondering >whether my problem could be quite peculiar. It would seem pretty straight forward. Your E2 tests at 60+ are through the roof. E2 out competes T for receptor sites and robs the body of the effect of T. Most endos are unaware of this. The science on it is rather new and the standard literature has not come around to reflect it. You will likely need to find a way to control your E2 using an aromotase blocker. (Aromotase is an enzyme that converts T to E2.) Arimidex is the most common. Search the messages for arimidex and E2 and you'll see it's one of the more common discussions here. But your T and free T are also through the roof. YOu should be on about half of the T you are. What is your source of T and how much, how often? - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Thyroid hormones affect EVERY cell in the body. I believe my hypogonadism is directly caused by undertreatment of thyroid after mine was surgically removed for cancer. > Re: hypo all the way >> >> Hi, my test results done 3 months back. >> >> Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45) >> Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17) >> LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8) >> FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11) >> Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800) [there is >> another entry immediately following which confuses me. But I >write it >> here as such: Testosterone - Total and free: 1303 ng/dL >(normal range: >> 236-1076)] Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal range: 31-160) >> Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal range: 1.0-3.1) >> Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13) >> Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < 10.1) >> [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it here: Growth hormone >> (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 ng/ml] >> IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492) >> T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8) >> TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50) >> (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and 10 do not necessarily >> indicate hypothyroidism.... " ) >> >> On the next forthcoming test he has asked me to go for these tests: >> PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Phil, Not to contradict but I am a hairy man and I love all the hair I have!! I don't think I would want any more hair but the hair I have is my entire chest and abdomen legs and arms, and I still have all my hair on my head. I do have two small patches of hair on my back one on each side just below my ribs. no hair on my ass and very little hair under my arms. Oh and a full beard. I just want to say that I think that all this shaving of hair is a sign of body dismorphic disorder. Be happy with what you have and stop worrying about what you don't. Life is much too short! Savario __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 All the new hair on my body from TRT grows and grows. It gets so long I can't see my penis. I don't like to shave the hair off and could care less what women think. I do this because I am more comfortable. Phil Savario <savario2000@...> wrote: Shaving or clipping is really all about the same thing isn't it? To coin a phrase manscaping. Maybe you haven't noticed but there is a trend these days to be smooth, not have any hair at all on any part of the body, so as to please the female portion of the world I guess, who seem to find hair to be disgusting. I for one am against manscaping I am a man not a psuedo-woman. I LOVE ALL THE BODY HAIR THAT I HAVE !!! If I were to get more oh well I would live with it. as for it falling out that is pretty much what hair does whether it is short or long it still falls out. I find a dust buster works wonders! I think maybe the problem is that you never had hair as a young man and so you never knew what it was like to be a man with hair. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 How on earth do businesses exist? Endo to endo to endo and doc to doc to doc, keep changing, and nothing changes except my wallet size and age, and yet, it always takes ever to get the next appointment with any of them. Cannot fix, yet busy. Funny world where you just have to sit and pass every day without imporvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Hi all happy new year. Short gist from my old posts: 1. 35 years old 1. was taking T-shots 200 mg biweekly for 3 years, total and free T rocketed, E also pumped up, no great effect, felt let down for long 2. switched to another endo 3 months back. Suggested gel is better than shots. He stopped all TRT for 6 weeks, did lab tests, and said would see me this week, when the results are ready, and most likely prescribe gel. got results yesterday: total T - 333 (normal: 250 - 1100 ng/Dl) free T - 78.5 (normal: 35 - 155 pg/ml) % free T- 2.36 (normal: 1 - 3.1%) Now, when I was pinning all hopes to see him this week and get that gel or whatever, I got a letter from him. Saying, .....all T levels are normal, so no gel or shot (like just forget about it), do another lab test 2 months from now, and will see if the results are steady or not, and then decide what to do.... So, stuck. I read many times that for an age like me, T should be in upper high normals. I got all my hopes stumped. Atleast the old one had me on active TRT. Any advise is welcome. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Sam to read this makes me so dam mad I can't stand it. I have had this happen to me 7 times in the last 21 yrs. If your levels are ok at 333 then how do you feel at this range. I was 121 when I had my first test and every time a Endo took me off my meds to do this test that tells them nothing I got so sick I could not get to work. I can't tell you what to do but I feel your posting this because you don't feel very good. I read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG Update and printed a copy showed it to my Dr. and told him I need to try this. It was the first of this yr. I have been on shots and HCG and today and most of this yr feel the best I ever felt in the 21 yrs. on TRT. Go here and read this at the bottom. http://www.allthingsmale.com/ Try this with your old Dr. it worked for me. When I could go back to my Dr. after a Endo messed me up and set me back he would be dam mad. I am on shots 150 mgs. everyweek and doing 100 IU's of HCG everyday. My testis are back to there normal size and I no more joint or muscle pain. I am getting exercise and have lost over 65 lbs. You know what you need to do by the way you feel. Phil Sam <m_singaram@...> wrote: Hi all happy new year. Short gist from my old posts: 1. 35 years old 1. was taking T-shots 200 mg biweekly for 3 years, total and free T rocketed, E also pumped up, no great effect, felt let down for long 2. switched to another endo 3 months back. Suggested gel is better than shots. He stopped all TRT for 6 weeks, did lab tests, and said would see me this week, when the results are ready, and most likely prescribe gel. got results yesterday: total T - 333 (normal: 250 - 1100 ng/Dl) free T - 78.5 (normal: 35 - 155 pg/ml) % free T- 2.36 (normal: 1 - 3.1%) Now, when I was pinning all hopes to see him this week and get that gel or whatever, I got a letter from him. Saying, .....all T levels are normal, so no gel or shot (like just forget about it), do another lab test 2 months from now, and will see if the results are steady or not, and then decide what to do.... So, stuck. I read many times that for an age like me, T should be in upper high normals. I got all my hopes stumped. Atleast the old one had me on active TRT. Any advise is welcome. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:11:03 -0000, you wrote: >Hi all > happy new year. > >Short gist from my old posts: >1. 35 years old >1. was taking T-shots 200 mg biweekly for 3 years, total and free T >rocketed, E also pumped up, no great effect, felt let down for long >2. switched to another endo 3 months back. Suggested gel is better >than shots. He stopped all TRT for 6 weeks, did lab tests, and said >would see me this week, when the results are ready, and most likely >prescribe gel. > >got results yesterday: >total T - 333 (normal: 250 - 1100 ng/Dl) >free T - 78.5 (normal: 35 - 155 pg/ml) >% free T- 2.36 (normal: 1 - 3.1%) > >Now, when I was pinning all hopes to see him this week and get that >gel or whatever, I got a letter from him. Saying, .....all T levels >are normal, so no gel or shot (like just forget about it), do >another lab test 2 months from now, and will see if the results are >steady or not, and then decide what to do.... > >So, stuck. I read many times that for an age like me, T should be in >upper high normals. I got all my hopes stumped. Atleast the old one >had me on active TRT. Take this link to him: http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html What you have is almost normal for an 85 to 100 year old man. This BS of defining normal by lab test ranges is ridiculous. You're almost 2 standard deviations from mean, putting you in the bottom 10% for your age group. He needs to learn how to read lab results in terms of reality. If he won't respond let us know where you live and perhaps people here can find you someone close to you that is a better Doc on these issues. By the way - did he give you an E2 test after the break. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.