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How could ANY doctor not give you a diagnosis with a TSH of 9.0

and FT3 and FT4 so VERY low. This really is unbelievable. Your French

laboratory readings are VERY much better. For anybody taking natural thyroid

extract, their FT3 is expected to be pretty much at the top of the reference

range and the FT4 should be in the upper third. I think this is because you are

not on a high enough dose of Armour yet and this will improve as you take in

more of the T4. Sorry, but French doctor is incorrect. You need to increase

your dose of Armour by half a grain every four weeks until the symptoms have

gone and you are left feeling very well. Again, this is another doctor who is

treating you to get your blood results where blood results would be for anybody

taking synthetic thyroxine - and if he continues to recommend this, you will be

left taking little thyroid hormone replacement.

You have to decide whether you are going to be guided by this

doctor or whether you are to be guided by Dr P?

Answers to your questions: No 1. The short answer is yes, it

would reduce your FT3 and it would reduce your FT4 and after a while, would

increase your TSH. No 2. I don't know the answer to this, but I doubt taking Escort

and DHEA would have the effect you mention. The effect they would have is

giving your Armour better absorption. No. 3. I would be reluctant at this stage

to add a small dose of levothyroxine. I believe a raise in Armour would improve

your FT4 reading. However, I do take 25 mcgs T4 with my Armour, but that was

for physical reasons. I never quite got rid of all my pain on Armour, and the 25

mcgs managed to do it. I firmly believe in dosing via symptoms and not by blood

results.

Others may have more input - these are just my personal

feelings.

Luv - Sheila

My questions are:

1. Would reducing to 1.5 grains reduce the T3,

raise the T4 and the TSH ?

2. You suggested last post to start Isocort and

DHEA, having first tested sex hormones, which I have done and they are

okay. I've yet to order these, thinking I would use up my remaining NAE

first. If I take Isocort and DHEA would these two hormones have

the knock-on effect of reducing the high T3 and raising the T4 and TSH ?

3. Would taking a small dose of T4, along with the 2

grains of Armour, solve the problem or would doing this raise the T3 further

by conversion ?

I find this very complicated but am hoping you can point

me in the right direction. On my latest results I feel I am getting

there.

Many thanks again for your help and advice.

P

_,___

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  • 10 months later...

Hi ilzho and welcome,

First let me say if your this low your Dr. should have done more labs to find

out why your this low. And he put you on a lower dose then men start on. All

this is going to do is stop your body from making the low level of Testosterone

your testis were making before you added this low dose of gel. I tell men that

start on 5 grams and this is low to retest in 2 weeks to be sure there levels

are going up. Some men starting on a low 5 grams dose will end up lower then

they started because there brain sees the added Testosterone in there blood and

stops sending the LH and FSH messages to there testis and they stop making the

testosterone there had in there first set of labs. So you can end up lower then

you started and this shut down is what happens when when we men go on TRT. This

is why it's dam hard to figure out why your low to start with.

Your on a very low dose your Dr. dose not know what he is doing and your need to

run from this guy he is doing you more harm the good. Just read the insert that

comes with the gels it says to start at 5 grams and to go higher if your levels

don't come up.

Problem with most Dr.'s is they start men on this low dose and tell them to come

back in months for a lab test so you can be left lower then you started and

feeling worse.

Men need more labs to tell why they are low on testosterone the are a lot of

things that can be wrong that lower ones levels and if you fix this your levels

will come back up. One is high Estradiol read this link and I see this happen

to younger men.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Other things are a low grade infection, high Prolactin levels that can be caused

by a tumor on the Pituitary or your low because your Pituitary does not work

right and is not telling your Testis to make testosterone this is called

Secondary. Your Iron levels can be to high or you have Adrenal Fatigue do to

the stress in your life this lower your cortisol levels and stress lowers your

testosterone. I can go on for hrs. about what can make a mans T levels go down.

And I feel it is criminal to put a man on TRT without testing to see why he is

low once you going on TRT it's for life and a lot of things that can lower

Testosterone once it's fixed your levels will come back up on there own.

If you have not been on this low dose long stop and do labs to find out why your

low. Here is a link to labs I tell men they need done adding to your do your

Total T4 and T3 for thyroid.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=7059

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: ilzho <ilzho@...>

> Subject: Help with results

>

> Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:47 PM

> Hello:

>

> Just wanted to post my blood results and see what I can

> expect now that I am on TRT (androgel).

> A few weeks ago I had blood work done in the morning and

> after I had fasted.

>

> Here's my Testosterone Level:

>

> Testosterone Level: 2.1 ng/ml

> TSH: 3.010ulU/ml

>

> I just had another follow up on my blood work:

>

> Testosterone Level: 271 n g/dl

> % Free Testosterone: 2.74%

> Testosterone Free: 7.43 ng/dl

>

> I have just started androlgel 2.5 grams and hopefully I

> will see some changes.

>

> I am a 38 year old Male, 190 lbs, 6' who has experienced

> for a number of years no energy, no libido, just feel like

> I'm in a rut.

>

> I'm hoping to feel different soon.

> Does anyone have any insight on using Androgel or any

> advice????

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:47:49 -0000, you wrote:

>Hello:

>

>Just wanted to post my blood results and see what I can expect now that I am on

TRT (androgel).

>A few weeks ago I had blood work done in the morning and after I had fasted.

>

>Here's my Testosterone Level:

>

>Testosterone Level: 2.1 ng/ml

>TSH: 3.010ulU/ml

>

>I just had another follow up on my blood work:

>

>Testosterone Level: 271 n g/dl

>% Free Testosterone: 2.74%

>Testosterone Free: 7.43 ng/dl

>

>I have just started androlgel 2.5 grams and hopefully I will see some changes.

>

>I am a 38 year old Male, 190 lbs, 6' who has experienced for a number of years

no energy, no libido, just feel like I'm in a rut.

>

>I'm hoping to feel different soon.

>Does anyone have any insight on using Androgel or any advice????

>

>Thanks

2.5 gr will almost certainly do nothing for you. It says to me the

prescribing doctor knows nothing about testosterone. He appears to

think it is to supplement. It doesn't work that way.

On gels most of us use between 5 gr and 7.5 gr. I found I needed 7.5

gr to reach good levels. But gel is a poor therapy I believe. It stops

working for many of us. The skin thickens the application area grows

hair which absorbs the gel. the result is less and less T is absorbed.

It's also ungodly expensive. In the end I was doing 10g and couldn't

bump up past 450. You should be somewhere between 600 and 750

ideally.

Most of us do shots of 100 mg/week.

BEFORE you started the gel you should have been tested also for E2 and

prolactin.

Unfortunately you will likely have to stop the gel for a few weeks to

see what your natural levels are for E2 and prolactin.

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  • 2 years later...

Hi Pam - yes, I would most definitely say that your problems are

being caused with your very low iron, ferritin (which should be over 90) - low

free T3, (which should be in the upper third of the reference range - too low

free T4,(which should be above the middle of the reference range, therefore, yours

should be around 16). Low thyroid is being shown by your raised TSH level-

which would be better at around 1.0.. Your pituitary only secretes TSH when it

recognises there is insufficient thyroid hormone circulating in the blood.

You need to take some form of elemental iron to raise your

ferritin and low iron levels. Has your GP suggested anything? Maybe Ferrous

Fumerate or Glutamate 200mgs at least twice a day to start with, with high

doses of vitamin C to help with absorption.

I am not sure what the effect of the high platelets would have

on your thyroid function, but would be interested to know what results come

from a bone marrow test.

Read everything that you can in our FILES SECTION about

hypothyroidism and related conditions, and any questions you have, just shout!

Luv - Sheila

Serum ferritin 17 (range 10-200U) I seem to be very near the bottom of this

range?

Thyroid function test

Serum free - 4.3 (range 2.6 - 5.7)

triiodothyronine level

Serum free T4 - 13.3 (range 9.00-22U)

TSH - 3.43 (range 0.35-5.00)

R Transferrin

Serum transferrin 30.6 (range 28.0 42.6U)

Transferrin saturation 23 (range 17-57U)

Serum iron level 14.1 (range 10.00 - 30.00)

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