Guest guest Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 There is a lot about it in this link read the whole thing. Dam good read. http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-130.html Phil Dave <daultman@...> wrote: What exactly is the physiological purpose of SHBG? Can anyone explain, or post an easy to understand link? > Re: The proverbial has hit the fan. >Testosterone looking like it can't help me. > > >If you have high SHBG then Danazol which is supposed to lower SHBG >might work for you- that way you should end up with greater >elevations in freee testosterone. > >That might not work, but it might be the very thing that you are >looking for. > >At least the reason for your problems looks like the SHBG- I don't >exactly know what my problem is. > >Maybe I have helped you there? > >I sure as hell can't help myself. > > > >> On testosterone cyprionate injections. >> >> First injection I felt fantastic. >> >> My libido returned for the first time in a year or so, >> I had morning >> erections for the first time in a year or so. Even >> more importantly >> my chronic back pain was gone and I felt upbeat, had >> energy, drive, my >> concentration way better and my mood greatly improved. >> >> Now all has gone and I am back to square one. >> >> Like every other treament I gaurentee there will be no answers to be >> found. >> >> On previous tretament Androgel the same thing occured >> and blood test >> revealed nothing- adequate T, E2 even if high never >> really improved >> any dose of Arimidex or DIM with indolplex or zinc or >> anything. >> >> I still felt this way no matter what the blood >> results, even if T >> seemed perfect and E2 perfect as well. Not only that >> but I have low >> SHBG, a reasonable level of free T and have been >> tested for countless >> additional hormoes that may be an issue. >> >> This time on the injections as before the same thing happened. >> >> A few days being well and that was it. >> >> I noticed that while I felt well I apart from >> generally feeling great >> I had morning erections and my arm pits smelt very >> musky- which I >> presume is pheromones, (now they do not smell at all). >> >> >> A few days later penile atrophy, can't sustain an >> erection, no morning >> erections and as has happened every single time a >> fixed point rash >> developed around my belt line and a dull pain from my >> right side where >> my liver is. >> >> I think the reason testosterone is not workling is >> because I had major >> liver surgery many years ago and somehow I don't think >> it can handle >> eithe testosterone or the metabolization of estrogens, >> one or the >> other (and like I said on that note no anti estrogen >> or A.I seems to >> help) >> >> I think I am excuse the language- up shit creep >> without a paddle. >> >> I think I have untreatable hypogonadism. >> >> I think I am buggered if I am on TRT and buggered if I >> am not. >> >> Treat the hypogonadism and have the liver screw me up, >> don't treat the >> hypogonadism and my liver is ok but the hypogonadism >> screws me up. >> >> If I come off TRT I can expect the osteopenia to >> become osteoporosis >> and i can expect a very poor quality of life, or I can >> stay on TRT and >> have a limited improvement and at the age of 31 have >> no interest >> whatsoever in the opposite sex for the rest of my >> life. >> >> I said I wasn't going to get my hopes up, but in >> reality it is the >> same every time, you can't help it. >> >> I'll continue with the injections for a while but I >> just know its not >> going to work:( >> >> Now I am just utterly devastated and miserable and I >> am coming to the >> end of my tether. >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >> http://mail. >> > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 I was wondering, do you guys all do something about the buildup of SHBG. Isn't this a concern as you do TRT? Doesn't the body try to produce more SHBG to bind up the exogenous test it is recieveing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 > > I was wondering, do you guys all do something about the buildup of > SHBG. Isn't this a concern as you do TRT? Doesn't the body try to > produce more SHBG to bind up the exogenous test it is recieveing? > If there was a buildup, what would one do? If it worked that way you think, why would there a buildup? Why would it not simply come to a new equilibrium point? All the resources I have ever seen suggest that the production of SHBG is influenced by a number of factors. The effect of higher androgens is to DECREASE SHBG not increase it. Note Table1 http://www.mdtext.com/male/male4/maleframe4.htm Also http://www.dpcweb.com/medical/reproductive_endocrinology/shbg.html Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:05:59 -0000, you wrote: >All the resources I have ever seen suggest that the production of SHBG >is influenced by a number of factors. The effect of higher androgens >is to DECREASE SHBG not increase it. > >Note Table1 >http://www.mdtext.com/male/male4/maleframe4.htm > >Also >http://www.dpcweb.com/medical/reproductive_endocrinology/shbg.html This is interesting though: " Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) is a glycoprotein synthesized by the liver. Circulating androgen and estrogen concentrations influence SHBG synthesis. Elevated testosterone, for example, causes SHBG synthesis to decrease, whereas high estrogen stimulates SHBG production. The regulation of SHBG synthesis, combined with SHBG's higher affinity for testosterone, impacts bioavailable testosterone levels. " So increasing estrogens creates more SHBG which binds more testosterone. I wonder if this is partly why E2 robs us of the T effects. ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 > > > So increasing estrogens creates more SHBG which binds more > testosterone. I wonder if this is partly why E2 robs us of the T > effects. > If you wanted to evaluate the net effect on non-SHBG bound testosterone, you could get labs done before and after dosage changes. The test is usually called bioavailable testosterone or free and weakly bound testosterone. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Yes and it's through keeping one's Estradiol down if you let it go up so does SHBG and down goes Free T. When one has high Estradiol they don't feel very good and most will tell there Dr. the TRT is not working. When we go on TRT the T med converts into Estradiol and this will make you feel dam bad. Getting it down you feel better and the SHBG goes down with it. Phil bb1fit1 <bb1fit1@...> wrote: I was wondering, do you guys all do something about the buildup of SHBG. Isn't this a concern as you do TRT? Doesn't the body try to produce more SHBG to bind up the exogenous test it is recieveing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 > > >All the resources I have ever seen suggest that the production of SHBG > >is influenced by a number of factors. The effect of higher androgens > >is to DECREASE SHBG not increase it. > > > >Note Table1 > >http://www.mdtext.com/male/male4/maleframe4.htm > > > >Also > >http://www.dpcweb.com/medical/reproductive_endocrinology/shbg.html > > > This is interesting though: > > " Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) is a glycoprotein synthesized by > the liver. Circulating androgen and estrogen concentrations influence > SHBG synthesis. Elevated testosterone, for example, causes SHBG > synthesis to decrease, whereas high estrogen stimulates SHBG > production. The regulation of SHBG synthesis, combined with SHBG's > higher affinity for testosterone, impacts bioavailable testosterone > levels. " > > So increasing estrogens creates more SHBG which binds more > testosterone. I wonder if this is partly why E2 robs us of the T > effects. > > ________________ > I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. > Terence Wow, thanks for some clarifications guys. One more question...so with the added test, nothing like Nettle is really necessary? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 SHbg is usually an indicator of some other hormonal imbalance which is more reflective of insulin then any other hormone. Thyroid meds are notorious for raising it. I am dealing with this issue now and working on using stinging nettles 1000 mgs from now to help lower it or just free it up. I hate to go higher testosterone levels to compensate it for the effect that it has on the prostrate. Starvation, malasborption, hidden inflammation namely NASH and other liver absnormalities can also affect it. SHBG is like a cork it bobs up in down in the ocean and its action is determined by wind, water condition and ect. > > Phil, > I've been reading your posts over at the RT3 group regarding SHBG. Now, you've got me wondering about my husband's level. It is 77, with the high limit being 80. Can you tell me what would be the " perfect number " ? I am guessing that it should be lower, if I am right - do you have any suggestions for a supplement/prescription that he can take? Pati > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Thanks, hardasnails - I think that you hit the nail on the head! Up until about 4 months ago he had very high insulin levels (480's) and brought them down to normal w/low carb diet and now, normally runs 80-100. After a meal it seems to take longer for him to recover and will stay up to 180 for better than 12 hours. He has always been told that he has a fatty liver. I will be picking up the stinging nettles today. should the target # be about mid range? I will be picking up the stinging nettles today - any brand? Thanks, Pati > > > > Phil, > > I've been reading your posts over at the RT3 group regarding SHBG. Now, you've got me wondering about my husband's level. It is 77, with the high limit being 80. Can you tell me what would be the " perfect number " ? I am guessing that it should be lower, if I am right - do you have any suggestions for a supplement/prescription that he can take? Pati > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 I don't take things to lower SHBG I address what is making them go up if in his case he has been on T3 only meds this might be the problem or if he has higher levels of Estradiol. It's better to find out why it's up and fix the problem and let SHBG fall where is needs to be this is not the same for everyone but mid range would be good. What Hard told you I agree with this. Here are the labs I would do before trying to get this down. Estradiol sensitive Code #4021 Testosterone, Free, Bioavailable & Total LC/MS/MS Code # 14966X. In his one they give you SHBG. Co-Moderator Phil > From: PatiA <patianderson3@...> > Subject: Re: SHBG > > Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 11:20 AM > Thanks, hardasnails - I think that > you hit the nail on the head! > Up until about 4 months ago he had very high insulin levels > (480's) and brought them down to normal w/low carb diet and > now, normally runs 80-100. After a meal it seems to > take longer for him to recover and will stay up to 180 for > better than 12 hours. He has always been told that he has a > fatty liver. I will be picking up the stinging nettles > today. should the target # be about mid range? I will be > picking up the stinging nettles today - any brand? Thanks, > Pati > > > > > > > > Phil, > > > I've been reading your posts over at the RT3 > group regarding SHBG. Now, you've got me wondering about my > husband's level. It is 77, with the high limit being 80. Can > you tell me what would be the " perfect number " ? I am > guessing that it should be lower, if I am right - do you > have any suggestions for a supplement/prescription that he > can take? Pati > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 NOW brand is the best..and has the best reviews..I researched this for over 2 days. There are other ways to manupulate it but one of them is illegal. > > > > > > > > Phil, > > > > I've been reading your posts over at the RT3 > > group regarding SHBG. Now, you've got me wondering about my > > husband's level. It is 77, with the high limit being 80. Can > > you tell me what would be the " perfect number " ? I am > > guessing that it should be lower, if I am right - do you > > have any suggestions for a supplement/prescription that he > > can take? Pati > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 Hi, Phil and HardasNails, these are the test results that he just got. He did start arimidex last week - 1/4 of a pill every other days. It is working already. I feel like since the estrogen was not terribly high, we should work on the SHBG to help free up the testosterone. He is not taking T3 only, but natural thyroid 3 grains. I believe that his T3 levels are still a tiny bit low 3.3 with upper range of 4.2. He doesn't seem tired or sluggish and is losing weight so I don't think that's something to change at this point. Thanks HardasNails, for your research, I will look for the NOw brand. If it doesn't work, I'm not uncomfortable with illegal as long as it is safe! If the supplement is working, will he feel any different? Or is a blood test the only way to tell? Pati sensitive estradial 32.5 range 7.6 -42 testosterone 548 range 350-720 (previous 455 w/o dim) free testosterone 65 range 47-244 SHBG 77 range 11- 80 estrone by TMS 23 range <45 (I don't know what this is??) DHEA sulfate 49 range 51-295 dr said that it should be >300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 Hi PatiA, My Free T3 is right now on Growth Hormone and Synthroid 250 mcgs. 307. When I was on 4 grains of Armour it was 371 and I don't feel any different good or bad. I am a mod also at RTH the men's only forum I don't do like most mods do by telling people to get FT3 up near the top of the range if one feels good at mid range like I am at leave it there. His Estradiol is coming down this will in time bring down SHBG and his stopping T3 only meds I would not take anything to bring SHBG down at this time give it time to find it's own level. As for DHEA my Dr. told me this same thing and I went back on DHEA with my levels much higher then his it converted into Estradiol so keep an eye out for this in all the yrs. I added DHEA I never felt it. Try 25 mgs / day to start. Estrone testing for men is a waste for money them labs are for women. Men only need to get there Estradiol levels down the rest will follow. I don't know if you see this file I made about not going to low on Arimidex so here it is. ================================= How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low. What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs. The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it. Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs. I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up. I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days. So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days. I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need ..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days. So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel. Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face. Co-Moderator Phil > From: PatiA <patianderson3@...> > Subject: Re: SHBG > > Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:31 AM > Hi, Phil and HardasNails, these are > the test results that he just got. He did start arimidex > last week - 1/4 of a pill every other days. It is working > already. I feel like since the estrogen was not terribly > high, we should work on the SHBG to help free up the > testosterone. He is not taking T3 only, but natural thyroid > 3 grains. I believe that his T3 levels are still a > tiny bit low 3.3 with upper range of 4.2. He doesn't seem > tired or sluggish and is losing weight so I don't think > that's something to change at this point. > Thanks HardasNails, for your research, I will look > for the NOw brand. If it doesn't work, I'm not uncomfortable > with illegal as long as it is safe! If the supplement is > working, will he feel any different? Or is a blood test the > only way to tell? Pati > > sensitive estradial 32.5 range > 7.6 -42 > > testosterone 548 > range 350-720 (previous 455 w/o > dim) > > free testosterone 65 range > 47-244 > > SHBG 77 range 11- 80 > > estrone by TMS 23 range <45 (I don't > know what this is??) > > DHEA sulfate 49 range 51-295 dr said that it > should be >300 > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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