Re: Low LH and Low T....going with Tamoxifen

[Guest guest]

With them labs you should have Estradiol if it's on the high side it can hold

down LH still LH fires on and off fast so it's hard to tell what's going on.

Your Total T is way to low for me I would be dieing this low. Your FSH is up so

this shows your LH at times is higher. Dr. says it's a good way to check

LH doing FSH.

When we found my Estradiol was to high and my Dr. would not try Arimidex he

tried Tamoxifen it did nothing for me but that's me.

How do you feel at them levels.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: rockin813 <rockin813@...>

> Subject: Low LH and Low T....going with Tamoxifen

>

> Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 2:11 PM

> Just got my labs drawn earlier this month. Not taking any

> type of

> HRT or even OTC supplements.

>

> LH is 3.2 with ref range of 1.5 - 9.3

>

> FSH is 5.8 with ref range of 1-6.5 (explains why wife is

> preggars!)

>

> Total T is 349 with ref range of 250-1100

>

> Free T % is 1.5 with ref range of .5 - 2.5..pretty ideal i

> guess

>

> Free T is .66 with ref range of .5 - 3.

>

> So as long as i get my Total T up i would think my Free T

> would come

> up as well...seeing nothing is abnormal regarding the Total

> to Free T

> ratio.

>

> Dr wrote script for Tamoxifen 20mg a day (10 am and 10pm)

> which will

> help with the slight male breast tissue (from low T) and

> also hoping

> it will increase my LH and thus increase my T...cuz my

> Testes still

> function.

>

> Your thoughts?

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry...my Estradiol is at 12 with ref range <54 and my Total

Estrogens are 108 with ref range of <130.

I have a very low low libido. No nocturnal or morning erections. I

can get an erection but lose it very quickly...so sex doesn't last

long at all. Can go two weeks w/out ever feeling like having sex.

Sucks.

I tried Tamoxifen before a long time ago but stopped after a week cuz

I wasn't sure what it was doing or how it played a role in getting me

to feel better. After a few days I felt great but then relapsed. I'm

now wondering if I relapsed cuz I was still exposed to the estrogen

product that got me here in the first place...Tea Tree oil shampoo.

So now that I'm not using that product, Im hoping the Tamoxifen gets

my LH back into a higher gear to produce more T.

i surprisingly function at this low level...but don't have that

general well being feeling. everything in my life is great except for

this. i hope it gets resolved soon.

>

> > From: rockin813 <rockin813@...>

> > Subject: Low LH and Low T....going with Tamoxifen

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 2:11 PM

> > Just got my labs drawn earlier this month. Not taking any

> > type of

> > HRT or even OTC supplements.

> >

> > LH is 3.2 with ref range of 1.5 - 9.3

> >

> > FSH is 5.8 with ref range of 1-6.5 (explains why wife is

> > preggars!)

> >

> > Total T is 349 with ref range of 250-1100

> >

> > Free T % is 1.5 with ref range of .5 - 2.5..pretty ideal i

> > guess

> >

> > Free T is .66 with ref range of .5 - 3.

> >

> > So as long as i get my Total T up i would think my Free T

> > would come

> > up as well...seeing nothing is abnormal regarding the Total

> > to Free T

> > ratio.

> >

> > Dr wrote script for Tamoxifen 20mg a day (10 am and 10pm)

> > which will

> > help with the slight male breast tissue (from low T) and

> > also hoping

> > it will increase my LH and thus increase my T...cuz my

> > Testes still

> > function.

> >

> > Your thoughts?

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:11:46 -0000, you wrote:

>Just got my labs drawn earlier this month. Not taking any type of

>HRT or even OTC supplements.

>

>LH is 3.2 with ref range of 1.5 - 9.3

>

>FSH is 5.8 with ref range of 1-6.5 (explains why wife is preggars!)

>

>Total T is 349 with ref range of 250-1100

>

>Free T % is 1.5 with ref range of .5 - 2.5..pretty ideal i guess

>

>Free T is .66 with ref range of .5 - 3.

>

>So as long as i get my Total T up i would think my Free T would come

>up as well...seeing nothing is abnormal regarding the Total to Free T

>ratio.

>

>Dr wrote script for Tamoxifen 20mg a day (10 am and 10pm) which will

>help with the slight male breast tissue (from low T) and also hoping

>it will increase my LH and thus increase my T...cuz my Testes still

>function.

>

>Your thoughts?

I agree with Phil, get your E2 tested. Are you overweight? The enzyme

that converts T to E2 is more abundant in fat cells and once the E2

levels rise you get more fat, and the cycle begins. Higher E2 can

suppress T levels. Of course if you've already started the tamoxifen

you won't know what your E2 levels were.

The tamoxifen is an E2 blocker so your doctor is on the ball. It will

likely give you a 200 to 300 point boost in total T also.

350 is sort of low. But okay for an occasional level - levels can vary

100s of points in hours. But you should have a test in the early AM,

when levels are higher. You should actually be seeing levels above

600. Look in the files and links section and you'll find an average

level by age chart.

You're lucky to have a doctor this informed. Most of us have to fight

to get E2 blockers and face all sorts of ignorance and skepticism.

Where is your doctor? I'm sure we'd like to add him to our

favorites/reccommend list.

[Guest guest]

That is to low you need it higher and going on TRT would bring this up. Low T

comes with low E2 and this is a big loss of libido and keeping it up if you can

get it up. I go to low a lot doing arimidex and I gage this by my morning wood

if it stops I stop the med until it comes back up and my wood comes back. I

then go back on the med but lower the dose. It is a on going process and a lot

of changing the dose.

The best recipe for good libido and having good sex is to have your Total and

Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and your Estradiol at a

good level say 20 pg/ml. I have told a lot of men this and they have found this

works dam good.

What is your SHBG levels I am beting they are low too.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: rockin813 <rockin813@...>

> Subject: Re: Low LH and Low T....going with Tamoxifen

>

> Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 3:23 PM

> Sorry...my Estradiol is at 12 with ref range <54 and my

> Total

> Estrogens are 108 with ref range of <130.

>

> I have a very low low libido. No nocturnal or morning

> erections. I

> can get an erection but lose it very quickly...so sex

> doesn't last

> long at all. Can go two weeks w/out ever feeling like

> having sex.

> Sucks.

>

> I tried Tamoxifen before a long time ago but stopped after

> a week cuz

> I wasn't sure what it was doing or how it played a role

> in getting me

> to feel better. After a few days I felt great but then

> relapsed. I'm

> now wondering if I relapsed cuz I was still exposed to the

> estrogen

> product that got me here in the first place...Tea Tree oil

> shampoo.

> So now that I'm not using that product, Im hoping the

> Tamoxifen gets

> my LH back into a higher gear to produce more T.

>

> i surprisingly function at this low level...but don't

> have that

> general well being feeling. everything in my life is great

> except for

> this. i hope it gets resolved soon.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > > From: rockin813 <rockin813@...>

> > > Subject: Low LH and Low T....going

> with Tamoxifen

> > >

> > > Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 2:11 PM

> > > Just got my labs drawn earlier this month. Not

> taking any

> > > type of

> > > HRT or even OTC supplements.

> > >

> > > LH is 3.2 with ref range of 1.5 - 9.3

> > >

> > > FSH is 5.8 with ref range of 1-6.5 (explains why

> wife is

> > > preggars!)

> > >

> > > Total T is 349 with ref range of 250-1100

> > >

> > > Free T % is 1.5 with ref range of .5 -

> 2.5..pretty ideal i

> > > guess

> > >

> > > Free T is .66 with ref range of .5 - 3.

> > >

> > > So as long as i get my Total T up i would think

> my Free T

> > > would come

> > > up as well...seeing nothing is abnormal regarding

> the Total

> > > to Free T

> > > ratio.

> > >

> > > Dr wrote script for Tamoxifen 20mg a day (10 am

> and 10pm)

> > > which will

> > > help with the slight male breast tissue (from low

> T) and

> > > also hoping

> > > it will increase my LH and thus increase my

> T...cuz my

> > > Testes still

> > > function.

> > >

> > > Your thoughts?

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:23:23 -0000, you wrote:

>Sorry...my Estradiol is at 12 with ref range <54 and my Total

>Estrogens are 108 with ref range of <130.

>

>I have a very low low libido. No nocturnal or morning erections. I

>can get an erection but lose it very quickly...so sex doesn't last

>long at all. Can go two weeks w/out ever feeling like having sex.

>Sucks.

12 is actually too low and THAT could be part of your problem. Low E2

is even worse than high E2 for it's effect on erections and libido.

Your T is somewhat low. It may be that your low T is keeping your E2

low also by not producing enough T to " spill over " into E2.

DON " T TAKE THE TAMOXIFEN! It will lower your E2 further and that will

be unimaginably poor. Low E2 is the worst. No energy, no drive, no

am,bition, no erections and no libido. Someone here described low E2

like turning a blow job into a hand shake.

>I tried Tamoxifen before a long time ago but stopped after a week cuz

>I wasn't sure what it was doing or how it played a role in getting me

>to feel better. After a few days I felt great but then relapsed. I'm

>now wondering if I relapsed cuz I was still exposed to the estrogen

>product that got me here in the first place...Tea Tree oil shampoo.

>So now that I'm not using that product, Im hoping the Tamoxifen gets

>my LH back into a higher gear to produce more T.

>

>i surprisingly function at this low level...but don't have that

>general well being feeling. everything in my life is great except for

>this. i hope it gets resolved soon.

>

>

>

>

>>

>> > From: rockin813 <rockin813@...>

>> > Subject: Low LH and Low T....going with Tamoxifen

>> >

>> > Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 2:11 PM

>> > Just got my labs drawn earlier this month. Not taking any

>> > type of

>> > HRT or even OTC supplements.

>> >

>> > LH is 3.2 with ref range of 1.5 - 9.3

>> >

>> > FSH is 5.8 with ref range of 1-6.5 (explains why wife is

>> > preggars!)

>> >

>> > Total T is 349 with ref range of 250-1100

>> >

>> > Free T % is 1.5 with ref range of .5 - 2.5..pretty ideal i

>> > guess

>> >

>> > Free T is .66 with ref range of .5 - 3.

>> >

>> > So as long as i get my Total T up i would think my Free T

>> > would come

>> > up as well...seeing nothing is abnormal regarding the Total

>> > to Free T

>> > ratio.

>> >

>> > Dr wrote script for Tamoxifen 20mg a day (10 am and 10pm)

>> > which will

>> > help with the slight male breast tissue (from low T) and

>> > also hoping

>> > it will increase my LH and thus increase my T...cuz my

>> > Testes still

>> > function.

>> >

>> > Your thoughts?

>> >

>> >

>> > ------------------------------------

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

yeah my low T is probably what causes my E2 to be so low. at times

its actually <10 with ref range of 10-54 (depending on where i get my

labs drawn). so it's pretty much undetectable at times.

anyway, as for Tamox..it's not like arimidex. it doesn't shut down ur

E2. it just binds with estrogen receptors (in breast tissue mostly)

so u can hopefully rid the gynecomastia condition.

studies all show that after 4-6 wks of Tamoxifen at 20mg daily,

Gonadatropins LH and FSH increased along with Testosterone and

Estrogen (these are normal men suggesting no testicular issues). I

think i am in that boat as my testicles work and sperm production is

evident.

> >>

> >> > From: rockin813 <rockin813@>

> >> > Subject: Low LH and Low T....going with

Tamoxifen

> >> >

> >> > Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 2:11 PM

> >> > Just got my labs drawn earlier this month. Not taking any

> >> > type of

> >> > HRT or even OTC supplements.

> >> >

> >> > LH is 3.2 with ref range of 1.5 - 9.3

> >> >

> >> > FSH is 5.8 with ref range of 1-6.5 (explains why wife is

> >> > preggars!)

> >> >

> >> > Total T is 349 with ref range of 250-1100

> >> >

> >> > Free T % is 1.5 with ref range of .5 - 2.5..pretty ideal i

> >> > guess

> >> >

> >> > Free T is .66 with ref range of .5 - 3.

> >> >

> >> > So as long as i get my Total T up i would think my Free T

> >> > would come

> >> > up as well...seeing nothing is abnormal regarding the Total

> >> > to Free T

> >> > ratio.

> >> >

> >> > Dr wrote script for Tamoxifen 20mg a day (10 am and 10pm)

> >> > which will

> >> > help with the slight male breast tissue (from low T) and

> >> > also hoping

> >> > it will increase my LH and thus increase my T...cuz my

> >> > Testes still

> >> > function.

> >> >

> >> > Your thoughts?

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > ------------------------------------

> >> >

> >> >

[Guest guest]

My SHBG is 26 with ref range of 15 - 75.

I did take TRT for a while but never felt great...although I was

still using the estrogenic product unknowlingly. when i stopped TRT

i felt awsome within days and that lasted almost a week...then i

again relapsed.

Maybe a trial for TRT would kickstart my own production? Will

consider if Tamoxifen route doesn't work.

Thanks

> > >

> > > > From: rockin813 <rockin813@>

> > > > Subject: Low LH and Low T....going

> > with Tamoxifen

> > > >

> > > > Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 2:11 PM

> > > > Just got my labs drawn earlier this month. Not

> > taking any

> > > > type of

> > > > HRT or even OTC supplements.

> > > >

> > > > LH is 3.2 with ref range of 1.5 - 9.3

> > > >

> > > > FSH is 5.8 with ref range of 1-6.5 (explains why

> > wife is

> > > > preggars!)

> > > >

> > > > Total T is 349 with ref range of 250-1100

> > > >

> > > > Free T % is 1.5 with ref range of .5 -

> > 2.5..pretty ideal i

> > > > guess

> > > >

> > > > Free T is .66 with ref range of .5 - 3.

> > > >

> > > > So as long as i get my Total T up i would think

> > my Free T

> > > > would come

> > > > up as well...seeing nothing is abnormal regarding

> > the Total

> > > > to Free T

> > > > ratio.

> > > >

> > > > Dr wrote script for Tamoxifen 20mg a day (10 am

> > and 10pm)

> > > > which will

> > > > help with the slight male breast tissue (from low

> > T) and

> > > > also hoping

> > > > it will increase my LH and thus increase my

> > T...cuz my

> > > > Testes still

> > > > function.

> > > >

> > > > Your thoughts?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:15:36 -0000, you wrote:

>yeah my low T is probably what causes my E2 to be so low. at times

>its actually <10 with ref range of 10-54 (depending on where i get my

>labs drawn). so it's pretty much undetectable at times.

>

>anyway, as for Tamox..it's not like arimidex. it doesn't shut down ur

>E2. it just binds with estrogen receptors (in breast tissue mostly)

>so u can hopefully rid the gynecomastia condition.

But if it's blocking E2 use and your body needs E2 . . .

But that you have gynecommastia and low e2 sounds odd also. Have you

been checked for XXy chromosome disorders? What's your soy in take?

You seem to be having a reaction suggesting e issues.

>studies all show that after 4-6 wks of Tamoxifen at 20mg daily,

>Gonadatropins LH and FSH increased along with Testosterone and

>Estrogen (these are normal men suggesting no testicular issues).

But I would expect that is from lowering E2 effects and feed back. I

wouldn't expect it from a case where e2 is already low.

> I

>think i am in that boat as my testicles work and sperm production is

>evident.

[Guest guest]

Retro

This is how I got gynecomastia...

http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jan2007/niehs-31.htm

as funny as it may seem...it couldn't be more real. all my issues

started a few months after overusing a tea tree oil shampoo. also,

all the other issues other than low libido (cuz t is still low)went

away after i stopped using the shampoo.

again, i overused this stuff guys. i shampooed my hair sometimes 3x

in am and 3x in pm thinking it was good for my hair and will get it

healthy.

stupid i know.

>

> >yeah my low T is probably what causes my E2 to be so low. at

times

> >its actually <10 with ref range of 10-54 (depending on where i get

my

> >labs drawn). so it's pretty much undetectable at times.

> >

> >anyway, as for Tamox..it's not like arimidex. it doesn't shut down

ur

> >E2. it just binds with estrogen receptors (in breast tissue

mostly)

> >so u can hopefully rid the gynecomastia condition.

>

> But if it's blocking E2 use and your body needs E2 . . .

>

> But that you have gynecommastia and low e2 sounds odd also. Have you

> been checked for XXy chromosome disorders? What's your soy in take?

>

> You seem to be having a reaction suggesting e issues.

>

> >studies all show that after 4-6 wks of Tamoxifen at 20mg daily,

> >Gonadatropins LH and FSH increased along with Testosterone and

> >Estrogen (these are normal men suggesting no testicular issues).

>

> But I would expect that is from lowering E2 effects and feed back. I

> wouldn't expect it from a case where e2 is already low.

>

> > I

> >think i am in that boat as my testicles work and sperm production

is

> >evident.

>

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:25:01 -0000, you wrote:

>

>Retro

>

>This is how I got gynecomastia...

>http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jan2007/niehs-31.htm

>

>as funny as it may seem...it couldn't be more real. all my issues

>started a few months after overusing a tea tree oil shampoo. also,

>all the other issues other than low libido (cuz t is still low)went

>away after i stopped using the shampoo.

>

>again, i overused this stuff guys. i shampooed my hair sometimes 3x

>in am and 3x in pm thinking it was good for my hair and will get it

>healthy.

>

>stupid i know.

I remember you and that article.

I haven't a clue about your off list agonist and antagonist question.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I have some experience with gynecomastia. Nolvadex has

worked well for me.

Tamoxifen is an SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_estrogen_receptor_modulator

It behaves differently in different parts of the body. In bone,

it is mildly estrogenic. In breast tissue and the brain, it competes

with estrogen at the receptors.

I am on TRT now, and with the increase of testosterone, DHT

levels are rising. DHT is very effective against gynecomastia.

If you were to go on TRT, and kept your E2 levels down

below 30, you would probably notice a lot of improvement

with your gynecomastia. It can greatly reduce the adipose

tissue, and shrink the glandular tissue. Unfortunately, if

you have significant glandular tissue, it may have to be

removed surgically.

When I noticed this problem, I did a review of my meds and

found that most of them contributed to gynecomastia,

lowered testosterone, and prevented the liver from metabolizing

E2, so levels built up. I was also very overweight. I've

lost about 60 lbs so far. I had to work very hard for that,

but now I am losing weight just by being on TRT and

thyroid medication. (severe hypothyroid also)

Hope this helps.

-Mike

>

> >yeah my low T is probably what causes my E2 to be so low. at times

> >its actually <10 with ref range of 10-54 (depending on where i get my

> >labs drawn). so it's pretty much undetectable at times.

> >

> >anyway, as for Tamox..it's not like arimidex. it doesn't shut down ur

> >E2. it just binds with estrogen receptors (in breast tissue mostly)

> >so u can hopefully rid the gynecomastia condition.

>

> But if it's blocking E2 use and your body needs E2 . . .

>

> But that you have gynecommastia and low e2 sounds odd also. Have you

> been checked for XXy chromosome disorders? What's your soy in take?

>

> You seem to be having a reaction suggesting e issues.

>

> >studies all show that after 4-6 wks of Tamoxifen at 20mg daily,

> >Gonadatropins LH and FSH increased along with Testosterone and

> >Estrogen (these are normal men suggesting no testicular issues).

>

> But I would expect that is from lowering E2 effects and feed back. I

> wouldn't expect it from a case where e2 is already low.

>

> > I

> >think i am in that boat as my testicles work and sperm production is

> >evident.

>

[Guest guest]

Have you been tested for thyroid problems? One of

the symptoms for that is thinning brittle hair, and low

testosterone.

> >

> > >yeah my low T is probably what causes my E2 to be so low. at

> times

> > >its actually <10 with ref range of 10-54 (depending on where i get

> my

> > >labs drawn). so it's pretty much undetectable at times.

> > >

> > >anyway, as for Tamox..it's not like arimidex. it doesn't shut down

> ur

> > >E2. it just binds with estrogen receptors (in breast tissue

> mostly)

> > >so u can hopefully rid the gynecomastia condition.

> >

> > But if it's blocking E2 use and your body needs E2 . . .

> >

> > But that you have gynecommastia and low e2 sounds odd also. Have you

> > been checked for XXy chromosome disorders? What's your soy in take?

> >

> > You seem to be having a reaction suggesting e issues.

> >

> > >studies all show that after 4-6 wks of Tamoxifen at 20mg daily,

> > >Gonadatropins LH and FSH increased along with Testosterone and

> > >Estrogen (these are normal men suggesting no testicular issues).

> >

> > But I would expect that is from lowering E2 effects and feed back. I

> > wouldn't expect it from a case where e2 is already low.

> >

> > > I

> > >think i am in that boat as my testicles work and sperm production

> is

> > >evident.

> >

>