Re: HCG questions (was Re: Side-effects from gel)

[Guest guest]

There should be some doctors associated with the allthingsmale.com web site. I'm

not familiar with them but I've heard many people here speak highly of them.

Perhaps they can give you a referral. I don't know how well networked they might

be.

---------------------------------

Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on,

when.

[Guest guest]

Are you saying you live in North California if so see this Dr. he is one of the

best ever.

===========================================================

Romeo no, M.D. (831) 375-6655 395 Del Monte Ctr #305

Monterey, CA 93940 262 Eldorado Street #100 physician, psychiatrist,Behavioral

Neuroendocrinology and Immunology (831) 626-9094 fax

I talked to him a lot at this web site.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

He was posting there helping men doing research for his book. Here is a link

he posted in a lot about Adrenals.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

rjbertuccelli <randogbert@...> wrote:

Hi Phil, thanks again.

Well, I saw my new doc last night and the guy is a useless JOKE! He's around my

age (45) and started telling me eveything WRONG with taking TRT, never asked me

what my issues were, didn't care that it helped my chronic pain (this pisses me

off) and only gave me a prescription to continue my TRT for one month while he

figures out a way to get me OFF - along with all the other patients of my

ex-great doctor (Dr K) who went to Dr K for problems the rest of the medical

community couldn't cure. Why Dr K's office chose this schmuck (Dr Dick) to send

everyone's records to is beyond me! I couldn't get out of there fast enough and

only put up with Dr Dick's bullshit long enough to get my prescription. See, I

just happened to change insurance when this all went down with Dr K (lost his

license), and the new insurance wants pre-auth even tho my old prescription had

a lot of life left. Now I'm screwed.

So I need to find a doctor in NorCal who is better than the 7 (now 8) I've fired

over the last 4 years. Please ping me if you know of one. I sent an email a

couple days ago to Kim, Dr. 's asst to see if I can get in there. I don't

mind flying across the country for the right healthcare. It's a damn bit better

than living with chronic pain while I've got my own business to manage, a young

family, and 22 acres to maintain!

Phil, I'm with ya on the gels. I really think I need to get to the shots. My

problem is secondary, proven by low LH and FSH with low testo numbers when on NO

meds and I went through a trial of HCG and responded remarkably well. I'd still

be on it but for headaches I got that were unrelenting. I was also trialing

Selepryl (liquid Deprenyl) at the same time and the headaches lasted until 80

days off the Selepryl and 6-8 weeks after stopping HCG. So I don't know which of

those caused the headaches but the headaches started after starting both of

them. I also had a pituitary MRI when my endo at the time saw my low T, LH and

FSH and it was all clear.

Anyone else get headaches on HCG???

Now HCG stuff:

I did 250 iu HCG 2X/week along with daily Androgel and once I saw the great

response I stopped Androgel completely. HCG still worked for my T numbers, but

stopping TRT was probably a mistake - I had just started educating myself at the

time.

I took the HCG (Novarel) - sub-Q. I'm wondering if shooting it in the muscle

instead might have avoided the headaches (slower absorption).

Also, was intrigued by Ovidrel rHCG at the time and maybe that would have been

something else to try but not sure of the cost difference vs. Novarel (Blue

Shield wouldn't cover any HCG for me). The I read about Luveris and have yet to

hear any responses to this:

They have a recumbant LH now (Luveris). Is anybody using this to be their LH

instead of using HCG to MIMIC LH??? I don't get it, unless the cost is through

the roof.

I've read men don't produce HCG, but then I've also read we do at puberty. Which

is it? I have to admit, I feel nervous about the long term effects of HCG.

However, except for the damn headaches, it works so well!

Finally, please someone riddle me this: My testo numbers across the board

(including E2) are LOWER on Testim than when I have no TRT at all. I average

just under 400 total T when on nothing and maybe 300 when on TRT. HOWEVER, my

chronic pain is lessened by maybe half and the wood and lack of brain fog,

fatigue, etc is pretty damn good mostly!

The only theory I can come up with is this: TRT is a crutch for my adrenal

fatigue. Even tho the adrenals are only good for around 15% of our total T, it

may be enough to tax my adrenals. The TRT may be giving my adrenals a break by

shutting down internal production (LH and FSH go to nil for me on TRT). Also,

when I was on HCG only, my numbers went to mid-upper range, yet I had lots of

crashing cycles. As it is, I am still just treading water and extra physical or

mental assertion flares my symptoms for a matter of days. I believe a good

program of the right TRT and HCG will give my adrenals the break they need to

rest. Then, after some time, I can decide whether to try to get off TRT or keep

it for life. Again, I'm 45 y/o.

Finally, WRT thyroid, I'm pretty well educated there. I spent 2 years

force-feeding myself thyroid replacement and educating myself as to why it

wasn't working. I found out about the adrenal connection fairly early on, but

every endo I saw said it was absolutely preposterous. I gave them the benefit of

the doubt at the time while poisoning myself. Now I plainly see that the endo

profession in general is what's totally proposterous and in need of a serious

overhaul!!! Doctors who specialize in hormone replacement are much better suited

to my needs.

Thanks for any insights!

Randy in NorCal

LOOKING FOR A NEW DOCTOR

Posted by: " philip georgian " pmgamer18@... pmgamer18 Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:20

pm (PST) When you test Estradiol you need to do the right test your test only

goes down to 20 this is not the right test. You need one like this.

http://www.labcorp. com/datasets/ labcorp/html/ chapter/mono/ sr012000. htm

Both Labcore and Quest do this test.

Using Arimidex we cut the 1mg pill in to 4 parts and take 1/4 of the one mg.

pill .25 mgs every 3 days after about a week we get morning wood back the kind

that wakes you up. This means you at the right levels we have found this to be a

good gauge to keep E2 in the right zone. If your wood stops your going down to

low and you need to stop taking it until wood comes back then that day go back

on it but take less or do .25mgs every 5 days.

It sounds like the gels are not getting your levels up high enough I had this

problem I am 63 3 yrs ago on gels I was house bound do to the bad pain I had in

my joints and muscles my back hurt so bad I had a hard time walking. I found a

site by Dr. www.allthingsmale. com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and

went on shots and added HCG to my shot. My levels come way up and I felt the

best I ever felt. You need to get your Total and Free T levels up into the upper

1/3 of your labs range for a young man. And to keep your E2 Estradiol down

between 10 to 30 best at 20 some men do good at even 40 pg/ml. After a time gels

stop working for some of us it does not get through the skin and are levels

drop. If you have a thyroid problem your skin gets thigher and gels don't work

to good here read this link.

http://www.griffinm edical.com/ male_hormone_ modulation_ therapy.html

---------------------------------

Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel.

[Guest guest]

Hello all,

Finding the right Dr. is a giant pain in the neck. The new one I saw yesterday

has me on 6,000 IU of HCG per week. Again I addressed the potential problems

linked to elevated E2 but he did not agree. I want to trust his expertise

though. Why is everybody concerned about E2 when most Dr. are not? Mine is

rather high but I dont feel any negative effect from it...yet? The HCG dosage is

recomended by the labs. I know this will bring results both for T level and nut

size which is for me very meaninglful.

Good luck with your journey.

Stephan.

---------------------------------

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.

Answers - Check it out.

[Guest guest]

Remember, Megazoid flew from England to see Dr. no, so we say he is

known world-wide

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of philip georgian

Sent: July 19, 2007 6:03 PM

Subject: Re: HCG questions (was Re: Side-effects from gel)

Are you saying you live in North California if so see this Dr. he is one of

the best ever.

===========================================================

Romeo no, M.D. (831) 375-6655 395 Del Monte Ctr #305 Monterey, CA 93940

262 Eldorado Street #100 physician, psychiatrist,Behavioral

Neuroendocrinology and Immunology (831) 626-9094 fax

I talked to him a lot at this web site.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

He was posting there helping men doing research for his book. Here is a link

he posted in a lot about Adrenals.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

rjbertuccelli <randogbert@... <mailto:randogbert%40> > wrote:

Hi Phil, thanks again.

Well, I saw my new doc last night and the guy is a useless JOKE! He's around

my age (45) and started telling me eveything WRONG with taking TRT, never

asked me what my issues were, didn't care that it helped my chronic pain

(this pisses me off) and only gave me a prescription to continue my TRT for

one month while he figures out a way to get me OFF - along with all the

other patients of my ex-great doctor (Dr K) who went to Dr K for problems

the rest of the medical community couldn't cure. Why Dr K's office chose

this schmuck (Dr Dick) to send everyone's records to is beyond me! I

couldn't get out of there fast enough and only put up with Dr Dick's

bullshit long enough to get my prescription. See, I just happened to change

insurance when this all went down with Dr K (lost his license), and the new

insurance wants pre-auth even tho my old prescription had a lot of life

left. Now I'm screwed.

So I need to find a doctor in NorCal who is better than the 7 (now 8) I've

fired over the last 4 years. Please ping me if you know of one. I sent an

email a couple days ago to Kim, Dr. 's asst to see if I can get in

there. I don't mind flying across the country for the right healthcare. It's

a damn bit better than living with chronic pain while I've got my own

business to manage, a young family, and 22 acres to maintain!

Phil, I'm with ya on the gels. I really think I need to get to the shots. My

problem is secondary, proven by low LH and FSH with low testo numbers when

on NO meds and I went through a trial of HCG and responded remarkably well.

I'd still be on it but for headaches I got that were unrelenting. I was also

trialing Selepryl (liquid Deprenyl) at the same time and the headaches

lasted until 80 days off the Selepryl and 6-8 weeks after stopping HCG. So I

don't know which of those caused the headaches but the headaches started

after starting both of them. I also had a pituitary MRI when my endo at the

time saw my low T, LH and FSH and it was all clear.

Anyone else get headaches on HCG???

Now HCG stuff:

I did 250 iu HCG 2X/week along with daily Androgel and once I saw the great

response I stopped Androgel completely. HCG still worked for my T numbers,

but stopping TRT was probably a mistake - I had just started educating

myself at the time.

I took the HCG (Novarel) - sub-Q. I'm wondering if shooting it in the muscle

instead might have avoided the headaches (slower absorption).

Also, was intrigued by Ovidrel rHCG at the time and maybe that would have

been something else to try but not sure of the cost difference vs. Novarel

(Blue Shield wouldn't cover any HCG for me). The I read about Luveris and

have yet to hear any responses to this:

They have a recumbant LH now (Luveris). Is anybody using this to be their LH

instead of using HCG to MIMIC LH??? I don't get it, unless the cost is

through the roof.

I've read men don't produce HCG, but then I've also read we do at puberty.

Which is it? I have to admit, I feel nervous about the long term effects of

HCG. However, except for the damn headaches, it works so well!

Finally, please someone riddle me this: My testo numbers across the board

(including E2) are LOWER on Testim than when I have no TRT at all. I average

just under 400 total T when on nothing and maybe 300 when on TRT. HOWEVER,

my chronic pain is lessened by maybe half and the wood and lack of brain

fog, fatigue, etc is pretty damn good mostly!

The only theory I can come up with is this: TRT is a crutch for my adrenal

fatigue. Even tho the adrenals are only good for around 15% of our total T,

it may be enough to tax my adrenals. The TRT may be giving my adrenals a

break by shutting down internal production (LH and FSH go to nil for me on

TRT). Also, when I was on HCG only, my numbers went to mid-upper range, yet

I had lots of crashing cycles. As it is, I am still just treading water and

extra physical or mental assertion flares my symptoms for a matter of days.

I believe a good program of the right TRT and HCG will give my adrenals the

break they need to rest. Then, after some time, I can decide whether to try

to get off TRT or keep it for life. Again, I'm 45 y/o.

Finally, WRT thyroid, I'm pretty well educated there. I spent 2 years

force-feeding myself thyroid replacement and educating myself as to why it

wasn't working. I found out about the adrenal connection fairly early on,

but every endo I saw said it was absolutely preposterous. I gave them the

benefit of the doubt at the time while poisoning myself. Now I plainly see

that the endo profession in general is what's totally proposterous and in

need of a serious overhaul!!! Doctors who specialize in hormone replacement

are much better suited to my needs.

Thanks for any insights!

Randy in NorCal

LOOKING FOR A NEW DOCTOR

Posted by: " philip georgian " pmgamer18@...

<mailto:pmgamer18%40> pmgamer18 Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:20 pm (PST)

When you test Estradiol you need to do the right test your test only goes

down to 20 this is not the right test. You need one like this.

http://www.labcorp. com/datasets/ labcorp/html/ chapter/mono/ sr012000. htm

Both Labcore and Quest do this test.

Using Arimidex we cut the 1mg pill in to 4 parts and take 1/4 of the one mg.

pill .25 mgs every 3 days after about a week we get morning wood back the

kind that wakes you up. This means you at the right levels we have found

this to be a good gauge to keep E2 in the right zone. If your wood stops

your going down to low and you need to stop taking it until wood comes back

then that day go back on it but take less or do .25mgs every 5 days.

It sounds like the gels are not getting your levels up high enough I had

this problem I am 63 3 yrs ago on gels I was house bound do to the bad pain

I had in my joints and muscles my back hurt so bad I had a hard time

walking. I found a site by Dr. www.allthingsmale. com and read TRT: A

Recipe for Success and went on shots and added HCG to my shot. My levels

come way up and I felt the best I ever felt. You need to get your Total and

Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man. And

to keep your E2 Estradiol down between 10 to 30 best at 20 some men do good

at even 40 pg/ml. After a time gels stop working for some of us it does not

get through the skin and are levels drop. If you have a thyroid problem your

skin gets thigher and gels don't work to good here read this link.

http://www.griffinm edical.com/ male_hormone_ modulation_ therapy.html

---------------------------------

Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel.

[Guest guest]

That site is put out by a Dr. there are no referals.

Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> wrote: There should be

some doctors associated with the allthingsmale.com web site. I'm not familiar

with them but I've heard many people here speak highly of them. Perhaps they can

give you a referral. I don't know how well networked they might be.

---------------------------------

Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on,

when.

[Guest guest]

I feel the need to tell you doing this much HCG a week for to low will burn out

your testis and make your Primary. Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A

Recipe for Success and his HCG update. This Dr. is one of the first to add HCG

to mens TRT for low Testosterone.

Stephan Pochet <spochet@...> wrote: Hello all,

Finding the right Dr. is a giant pain in the neck. The new one I saw yesterday

has me on 6,000 IU of HCG per week. Again I addressed the potential problems

linked to elevated E2 but he did not agree. I want to trust his expertise

though. Why is everybody concerned about E2 when most Dr. are not? Mine is

rather high but I dont feel any negative effect from it...yet? The HCG dosage is

recomended by the labs. I know this will bring results both for T level and nut

size which is for me very meaninglful.

Good luck with your journey.

Stephan.

---------------------------------

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.

Answers - Check it out.