E2

[Guest guest]

The short answer is I don't think we really know. We do know that men typically

start converting more and producing less T as they age. As to why one individual

is higher or lower - who knows. That is why you just have to try a few things

and see how you react. It is very important to only change one variable at a

time and give it time to adjust. Some aspects of our bodies is quick while

others take weeks. This is why they suggest testing every 4-6 weeks till stable

then every 6 months. You may not have an E2 issue at all - especially at 30

years old.

Arkansas

Jack <rockin813@...> wrote:

I understand males increase their E2 and decline in T as they age...so

is high E2 conversion from TRT age related? or is it something else? i know

everyone is different...but can anyone explain why some have higher levels of E2

during TRT than others...that are same age?

just curious. I begin TRT today..pick up prescription this morning. my E2

actually read <10...i'm not taking anything for it or my low T (372). i'm 30yo

(as most of you know). i will be starting with 100mg/week via injection in the

buttocks (wife will administer...27guage needle).

Jack

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Okay, Got the results of this weeks blood work.

After 1 month on 5 of Androgel they are:

DHEAS 197 (80-560) down 166ug/dl Gadzook!

Free T 8.1 (10-30) sucks!

Testosterone 3.37 (2.50-9.50) up by .69ng sucks still

E2 34 (6-44pg/ml) down by 23 not bad!

Total T not drawn

Heading to the Doc tomorrow. I'm seeing these before he

gets them...Ideas?

Thanks, (fire56)

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Thanks,

I knew the answer but this really is sort of new

to me, so I ask anyway. The dose was doubled

as was expected and we discussed the control

of conversion to E2. The risk of male cancers is

too real for me...I'm more concerned about BCa

than slightly larger teats. It's down from 57 to 34

since my last blood work so we'll see if it'll stay

that way just on the Indole/DIM.

While I was at the Uro/Onc, we discussed the

increase and blood work. His comment was exactly

the same as my GP who is a homeopath....most Dr's

never check E's because they fluctuate so widely from

day to day. I don't think either of them was too thrilled

with my wife, who highly suggested they read more about

the treatments they are supposed to be licensed to give!

Geez, can't take that woman anywhere! Before I could even

get out that " ranges are age inclusive, not specific " , she folded

a lab chart into a paper airplane and sent it sailing across

the room toward the Doc...the woman has a way of getting

her point across! I'm perfectly capable of taking myself to the

Doc but it isn't nearly as much fun!

So...my gel has been doubled and no more blood work until

November which is fine...can't live totally by those numbers.

I have no intention of getting totally absorbed into numbers. I'd go

nutz trying to balance every number perfectly. Life isn't a balancing

act but more like a juggle. Some days everything stays in the air,

some days things will fall. Hormones are not a perfect science.

Since they aren't...for me personally, quality of life is all I seek!

Facts are that there's 10-30% difference in normal day to day

for most values. Fact is, long term, wider than that will usually

show S/S in most people. Symptoms may be subtle, however

when long term...well, you know what happens there! My goal

is to feel human and we're getting there. Thanks for all your info

and advise by the way!

(fire56)

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil,

Yes I am going to stay off of the Armidex until I get the wood back. Will

keep

the T shots the same. I don't know though if I want to try the Armidex the

same day as the shot down the road though. Why couldn't I try it about

every 10 or 12 days after the shot? Thanks for the good advise.

Roy

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Phil, yes I was doing .25 mgs every 7 days.However I need to look at the

figures

too. It was only from May 17-06 to June 13-06 that I checked the Estradiol

and

it went from 27 down to 6 which is rather dramatic I am thinking, in that

time

frame That is why I went past the wood so fast I believe. So should I cut

the

dosage down from .25 mgs. to .50 mgs and take it when I take my shot?.

I don't know if that is possible though considering the size. Any anwers?

Roy

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Roy when your levels come back up and you try it again the best time

to take it is the day of your T shot. Your levels are the highest at this time

and the E2 goes up the highest after your T shot. I don't remember how much you

were doing I think it was .25 mgs. every 5 days is this right.

Phil

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

Hi Phil,

Yes I am going to stay off of the Armidex until I get the wood back. Will keep

the T shots the same. I don't know though if I want to try the Armidex the

same day as the shot down the road though. Why couldn't I try it about

every 10 or 12 days after the shot? Thanks for the good advise.

Roy

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Roy I need to know you were doing this right. Going from .25 to .50 is a higher

dose. Arimidex comes in a dose of 1 mg. cutting it in half is .50 mgs. cutting

the .50 mgs. in half is .25 mgs. What were you taking every 7 days .5 mgs or

..25mgs.

If you were taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg pill every 7 days then you will

need to do the .25 every 12 to 14 days. I think you may have been taking to

much every 7 days by doing .50 or 1/2 a 1mg. pill. I need to be sure you

understand what I am saying here.

Phil

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

Phil, yes I was doing .25 mgs every 7 days.However I need to look at the figures

too. It was only from May 17-06 to June 13-06 that I checked the Estradiol and

it went from 27 down to 6 which is rather dramatic I am thinking, in that time

frame That is why I went past the wood so fast I believe. So should I cut the

dosage down from .25 mgs. to .50 mgs and take it when I take my shot?.

I don't know if that is possible though considering the size. Any anwers?

Roy

philip georgian

wrote:

Roy when your levels come back up and you try it again the best time to take it

is the day of your T shot. Your levels are the highest at this time and the E2

goes up the highest after your T shot. I don't remember how much you were doing

I think it was .25 mgs. every 5 days is this right.

Phil

Roy wrote:

Hi Phil,

Yes I am going to stay off of the Armidex until I get the wood back. Will keep

the T shots the same. I don't know though if I want to try the Armidex the

same day as the shot down the road though. Why couldn't I try it about

every 10 or 12 days after the shot? Thanks for the good advise.

Roy

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hey Roy - thought I would pipe in here - I was also taking 0.25 mg every 7 days

and it was too much - so I tried every other week (14 days at 0.25 mg) on the

day of my shot and that was not enough. That was when I was taking 60 mg or T

each week. I have up'ed my T to 80 and trying the arimidex (0.25 mg) weekly

again.

Arkansas

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

Phil, yes I was doing .25 mgs every 7 days.However I need to look at the figures

too. It was only from May 17-06 to June 13-06 that I checked the Estradiol and

it went from 27 down to 6 which is rather dramatic I am thinking, in that time

frame That is why I went past the wood so fast I believe. So should I cut the

dosage down from .25 mgs. to .50 mgs and take it when I take my shot?.

I don't know if that is possible though considering the size. Any anwers?

Roy

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Roy when your levels come back up and you try it again the best time to take it

is the day of your T shot. Your levels are the highest at this time and the E2

goes up the highest after your T shot. I don't remember how much you were doing

I think it was .25 mgs. every 5 days is this right.

Phil

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

Hi Phil,

Yes I am going to stay off of the Armidex until I get the wood back. Will keep

the T shots the same. I don't know though if I want to try the Armidex the

same day as the shot down the road though. Why couldn't I try it about

every 10 or 12 days after the shot? Thanks for the good advise.

Roy

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Phil the computer between the old ears is not quite what it used to be. What I

meant to say was. Yes I have been taking .25mg or 1/4 pill every 7 days. No

I have never taken 1/2 pill and glad I didn't. So if I take 1/4 every 14 days

when I take my shot, would that be the best thing to do? I know you said

to take it when I took my shot because T elevates the E2 right? I hope we

are on the same page now. My mistake!

Roy

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Roy I need to know you were doing this right. Going from .25 to .50 is

a higher dose. Arimidex comes in a dose of 1 mg. cutting it in half is .50 mgs.

cutting the .50 mgs. in half is .25 mgs. What were you taking every 7 days .5

mgs or .25mgs.

If you were taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg pill every 7 days then you will need

to do the .25 every 12 to 14 days. I think you may have been taking to much

every 7 days by doing .50 or 1/2 a 1mg. pill. I need to be sure you understand

what I am saying here.

Phil

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

Phil, yes I was doing .25 mgs every 7 days.However I need to look at the figures

too. It was only from May 17-06 to June 13-06 that I checked the Estradiol and

it went from 27 down to 6 which is rather dramatic I am thinking, in that time

frame That is why I went past the wood so fast I believe. So should I cut the

dosage down from .25 mgs. to .50 mgs and take it when I take my shot?.

I don't know if that is possible though considering the size. Any anwers?

Roy

philip georgian

wrote:

Roy when your levels come back up and you try it again the best time to take it

is the day of your T shot. Your levels are the highest at this time and the E2

goes up the highest after your T shot. I don't remember how much you were doing

I think it was .25 mgs. every 5 days is this right.

Phil

Roy wrote:

Hi Phil,

Yes I am going to stay off of the Armidex until I get the wood back. Will keep

the T shots the same. I don't know though if I want to try the Armidex the

same day as the shot down the road though. Why couldn't I try it about

every 10 or 12 days after the shot? Thanks for the good advise.

Roy

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Roy sorry about that just need to be sure we are on the same page and we are.

How are you feeling and how long have you been off the Arimidex.

Phil

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

Phil the computer between the old ears is not quite what it used to be. What I

meant to say was. Yes I have been taking .25mg or 1/4 pill every 7 days. No

I have never taken 1/2 pill and glad I didn't. So if I take 1/4 every 14 days

when I take my shot, would that be the best thing to do? I know you said

to take it when I took my shot because T elevates the E2 right? I hope we

are on the same page now. My mistake!

Roy

philip georgian

wrote:

Roy I need to know you were doing this right. Going from .25 to .50 is a higher

dose. Arimidex comes in a dose of 1 mg. cutting it in half is .50 mgs. cutting

the .50 mgs. in half is .25 mgs. What were you taking every 7 days .5 mgs or

..25mgs.

If you were taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg pill every 7 days then you will need

to do the .25 every 12 to 14 days. I think you may have been taking to much

every 7 days by doing .50 or 1/2 a 1mg. pill. I need to be sure you understand

what I am saying here.

Phil

Roy wrote:

Phil, yes I was doing .25 mgs every 7 days.However I need to look at the figures

too. It was only from May 17-06 to June 13-06 that I checked the Estradiol and

it went from 27 down to 6 which is rather dramatic I am thinking, in that time

frame That is why I went past the wood so fast I believe. So should I cut the

dosage down from .25 mgs. to .50 mgs and take it when I take my shot?.

I don't know if that is possible though considering the size. Any anwers?

Roy

philip georgian

wrote:

Roy when your levels come back up and you try it again the best time to take it

is the day of your T shot. Your levels are the highest at this time and the E2

goes up the highest after your T shot. I don't remember how much you were doing

I think it was .25 mgs. every 5 days is this right.

Phil

Roy wrote:

Hi Phil,

Yes I am going to stay off of the Armidex until I get the wood back. Will keep

the T shots the same. I don't know though if I want to try the Armidex the

same day as the shot down the road though. Why couldn't I try it about

every 10 or 12 days after the shot? Thanks for the good advise.

Roy

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Short answer is I am still tweeking but 90% there. Didn't really start feeling

normal until I got the arimidex. My suggestion would be try the every 14 days

but I think every 10 is where you will end up. Might try taking 1/4 of a tablet

(0.25 mgs) 3 times a month say on the 1st, 10th and 20th. The half life of

arimidex is about 48 hours. Sounds like 80 mgs of T every 7 days is about right

for you. You referenced ~ 900 on total T - when in your cycle is that?

Arkansas

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

Hey Dan -- thanks for the good input. That gives me an idea of what do

do next

then. I have been doing about 80T weekly too for a long time and was doing

ok until I started on the Arimidex then T went too high and E2 too low so

do you think I should keep my T the same and reduce A to 14 days too and

see what happens then? Didn't know you were on about the same T as I

have been on. Wow, how long has it taken you to get balanced out????

Roy

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote:

Hey Roy - thought I would pipe in here - I was also taking 0.25 mg every 7 days

and it was too much - so I tried every other week (14 days at 0.25 mg) on the

day of my shot and that was not enough. That was when I was taking 60 mg or T

each week. I have up'ed my T to 80 and trying the arimidex (0.25 mg) weekly

again.

Arkansas

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

Phil, yes I was doing .25 mgs every 7 days.However I need to look at the figures

too. It was only from May 17-06 to June 13-06 that I checked the Estradiol and

it went from 27 down to 6 which is rather dramatic I am thinking, in that time

frame That is why I went past the wood so fast I believe. So should I cut the

dosage down from .25 mgs. to .50 mgs and take it when I take my shot?.

I don't know if that is possible though considering the size. Any anwers?

Roy

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Roy when your levels come back up and you try it again the best time to take it

is the day of your T shot. Your levels are the highest at this time and the E2

goes up the highest after your T shot. I don't remember how much you were doing

I think it was .25 mgs. every 5 days is this right.

Phil

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

Hi Phil,

Yes I am going to stay off of the Armidex until I get the wood back. Will keep

the T shots the same. I don't know though if I want to try the Armidex the

same day as the shot down the road though. Why couldn't I try it about

every 10 or 12 days after the shot? Thanks for the good advise.

Roy

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Phil my mood and mental conditions is better than it was. I have been off

Arimidex now 7 days as of today. I will be taking another shot tomorrow.

Guess you will have to lead me by the hand Phil ) Got my blood report the

13th.

Phil did I tell you my Endocrinologist prescribed me 1/2 tablet of Arimidex

every day for 30 days then get my blood checked in 30 days? He did so help

me!

He doesn't know the power of that drug for sure. I got blood checked sooner

because I was feeling bad! I am so glad that I can get advice form you

guys or I might be dead by now.- LoL - He OKed the earlier test too.

Roy

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Roy sorry about that just need to be sure we are on the same page and

we are. How are you feeling and how long have you been off the Arimidex.

Phil

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

Phil the computer between the old ears is not quite what it used to be. What I

meant to say was. Yes I have been taking .25mg or 1/4 pill every 7 days. No

I have never taken 1/2 pill and glad I didn't. So if I take 1/4 every 14 days

when I take my shot, would that be the best thing to do? I know you said

to take it when I took my shot because T elevates the E2 right? I hope we

are on the same page now. My mistake!

Roy

philip georgian

wrote:

Roy I need to know you were doing this right. Going from .25 to .50 is a higher

dose. Arimidex comes in a dose of 1 mg. cutting it in half is .50 mgs. cutting

the .50 mgs. in half is .25 mgs. What were you taking every 7 days .5 mgs or

..25mgs.

If you were taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg pill every 7 days then you will need

to do the .25 every 12 to 14 days. I think you may have been taking to much

every 7 days by doing .50 or 1/2 a 1mg. pill. I need to be sure you understand

what I am saying here.

Phil

Roy wrote:

Phil, yes I was doing .25 mgs every 7 days.However I need to look at the figures

too. It was only from May 17-06 to June 13-06 that I checked the Estradiol and

it went from 27 down to 6 which is rather dramatic I am thinking, in that time

frame That is why I went past the wood so fast I believe. So should I cut the

dosage down from .25 mgs. to .50 mgs and take it when I take my shot?.

I don't know if that is possible though considering the size. Any anwers?

Roy

philip georgian

wrote:

Roy when your levels come back up and you try it again the best time to take it

is the day of your T shot. Your levels are the highest at this time and the E2

goes up the highest after your T shot. I don't remember how much you were doing

I think it was .25 mgs. every 5 days is this right.

Phil

Roy wrote:

Hi Phil,

Yes I am going to stay off of the Armidex until I get the wood back. Will keep

the T shots the same. I don't know though if I want to try the Armidex the

same day as the shot down the road though. Why couldn't I try it about

every 10 or 12 days after the shot? Thanks for the good advise.

Roy

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Phil you just said to stay off Cialis until my wood comes back up. Which is it?

Should I go back on Cialis or not. That two messages contradict themselves,

don't they? I take my shot today, when should I take the Cialis again? Boy

I felt terrible yesterday and last night, I got the sweats, had to turn back

the

covers and take off my night shirt. Could imbalance be the reason for this?

Roy

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Roy stay on the Cialis it will bring on wood faster you did not get

much until you took it. I have to take it or my wood is just about gone with E2

good.

Phil

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

No Phil, I stopped the Cialis until I get some wood back. Right! - train my doc.

for other guys. I think I am giving him some good knowledge that he didn't

have before He had never prescribed Arimidex and I am glad for you guys

here, especially you Phil or I don't know where I would have been. My

problem is I don't have much of anything happening to me, like your nipples

and redness. I just don't feel as well. I don't have many clues to tell me!

Thanks always,

Roy.

philip georgian

wrote:

Roy are you now on Cialis every 72 hrs if so then wait until you feel like you

have some wood before going back on it and train your Dr. so he will help the

next poor guy.

Phil

Roy wrote:

Phil my mood and mental conditions is better than it was. I have been off

Arimidex now 7 days as of today. I will be taking another shot tomorrow.

Guess you will have to lead me by the hand Phil ) Got my blood report the

13th.

Phil did I tell you my Endocrinologist prescribed me 1/2 tablet of Arimidex

every day for 30 days then get my blood checked in 30 days? He did so help me!

He doesn't know the power of that drug for sure. I got blood checked sooner

because I was feeling bad! I am so glad that I can get advice form you

guys or I might be dead by now.- LoL - He OKed the earlier test too.

Roy

philip georgian

wrote:

Roy sorry about that just need to be sure we are on the same page and we are.

How are you feeling and how long have you been off the Arimidex.

Phil

Roy wrote:

Phil the computer between the old ears is not quite what it used to be. What I

meant to say was. Yes I have been taking .25mg or 1/4 pill every 7 days. No

I have never taken 1/2 pill and glad I didn't. So if I take 1/4 every 14 days

when I take my shot, would that be the best thing to do? I know you said

to take it when I took my shot because T elevates the E2 right? I hope we

are on the same page now. My mistake!

Roy

philip georgian

wrote:

Roy I need to know you were doing this right. Going from .25 to .50 is a higher

dose. Arimidex comes in a dose of 1 mg. cutting it in half is .50 mgs. cutting

the .50 mgs. in half is .25 mgs. What were you taking every 7 days .5 mgs or

..25mgs.

If you were taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg pill every 7 days then you will need

to do the .25 every 12 to 14 days. I think you may have been taking to much

every 7 days by doing .50 or 1/2 a 1mg. pill. I need to be sure you understand

what I am saying here.

Phil

Roy wrote:

Phil, yes I was doing .25 mgs every 7 days.However I need to look at the figures

too. It was only from May 17-06 to June 13-06 that I checked the Estradiol and

it went from 27 down to 6 which is rather dramatic I am thinking, in that time

frame That is why I went past the wood so fast I believe. So should I cut the

dosage down from .25 mgs. to .50 mgs and take it when I take my shot?.

I don't know if that is possible though considering the size. Any anwers?

Roy

philip georgian

wrote:

Roy when your levels come back up and you try it again the best time to take it

is the day of your T shot. Your levels are the highest at this time and the E2

goes up the highest after your T shot. I don't remember how much you were doing

I think it was .25 mgs. every 5 days is this right.

Phil

Roy wrote:

Hi Phil,

Yes I am going to stay off of the Armidex until I get the wood back. Will keep

the T shots the same. I don't know though if I want to try the Armidex the

same day as the shot down the road though. Why couldn't I try it about

every 10 or 12 days after the shot? Thanks for the good advise.

Roy

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I'm having a hard time following the thread, but if Dr. Ullis is here that

is a very good thing indeed. He's a genuine pioneer in this field, IMPO.

Is someone having an issue with Dr. Ullis serving on the Speaker's Bureau of

both companies that make BigPharma T gel? I hope not, because both Abbott

[formerly Solvay] (Androgel) and Auxilium (Testim) have spent a fortune

educating doctors about the dangers of low testosterone. They both have done

a very good job of that. Also, I serve on the Speaker's Bureaus of both

companies as well. It's important for us to gain credibility (which has

nothing to do with professional competence LOL) within the conventional

medical community. It also helps us pay our bills-if we cannot keep our

doors open, we cannot help anyone.

DIM may raise total E, it may lower total E, or it may remain the same. What

DIM really does is alter the ratios of the various estrogens into a more

favorable mix, hopefully decreasing the risk of various cancers in both men

and women. Many report DIM just plain makes them feel better as well.

Chrysin is kind of a stinker because no one really knows how to dose it, as

there is no standardization. Also, it's very difficult to get it into a

transdermal, as it must be ground and ground and ground first-few

compounders are willing to go to the trouble. Also, chrysin has (besides

anti-aromatase) SERM-class drug effects, and IMPO drugs of this class are

not for long term use in adult males. This is why I stick to Arimidex

(anastrozole), a competitive inhibitor of aromatase. I prefer this

preparation over the so-called " suicide " inhibitors.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

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[Guest guest]

Thank you Dr. and yes I am so happy to see Dr. Ullis here and Thank you Dr.

Ullis.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Crisler, DO <drjohn@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: E2

>

> Date: Friday, May 28, 2010, 5:57 AM

> I'm having a hard time following the

> thread, but if Dr. Ullis is here that

> is a very good thing indeed. He's a genuine pioneer in this

> field, IMPO.

>

>

>

> Is someone having an issue with Dr. Ullis serving on the

> Speaker's Bureau of

> both companies that make BigPharma T gel? I hope not,

> because both Abbott

> [formerly Solvay] (Androgel) and Auxilium (Testim) have

> spent a fortune

> educating doctors about the dangers of low testosterone.

> They both have done

> a very good job of that. Also, I serve on the Speaker's

> Bureaus of both

> companies as well. It's important for us to gain

> credibility (which has

> nothing to do with professional competence LOL) within the

> conventional

> medical community. It also helps us pay our bills-if we

> cannot keep our

> doors open, we cannot help anyone.

>

>

>

> DIM may raise total E, it may lower total E, or it may

> remain the same. What

> DIM really does is alter the ratios of the various

> estrogens into a more

> favorable mix, hopefully decreasing the risk of various

> cancers in both men

> and women. Many report DIM just plain makes them feel

> better as well.

>

>

>

> Chrysin is kind of a stinker because no one really knows

> how to dose it, as

> there is no standardization. Also, it's very difficult to

> get it into a

> transdermal, as it must be ground and ground and ground

> first-few

> compounders are willing to go to the trouble. Also, chrysin

> has (besides

> anti-aromatase) SERM-class drug effects, and IMPO drugs of

> this class are

> not for long term use in adult males. This is why I stick

> to Arimidex

> (anastrozole), a competitive inhibitor of aromatase. I

> prefer this

> preparation over the so-called " suicide " inhibitors.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only

> for the personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and

> is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not

> the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have

> received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination,

> distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have

> received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and

> delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm glad to see Docs here too.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Re: Re: E2

>

> Date: Friday, May 28, 2010, 5:57 AM

> I'm having a hard time following the

> thread, but if Dr. Ullis is here that

> is a very good thing indeed. He's a genuine pioneer in this

> field, IMPO.

>

>

>

> Is someone having an issue with Dr. Ullis serving on the

> Speaker's Bureau of

> both companies that make BigPharma T gel? I hope not,

> because both Abbott

> [formerly Solvay] (Androgel) and Auxilium (Testim) have

> spent a fortune

> educating doctors about the dangers of low testosterone.

> They both have done

> a very good job of that. Also, I serve on the Speaker's

> Bureaus of both

> companies as well. It's important for us to gain

> credibility (which has

> nothing to do with professional competence LOL) within the

> conventional

> medical community. It also helps us pay our bills-if we

> cannot keep our

> doors open, we cannot help anyone.

>

>

>

> DIM may raise total E, it may lower total E, or it may

> remain the same. What

> DIM really does is alter the ratios of the various

> estrogens into a more

> favorable mix, hopefully decreasing the risk of various

> cancers in both men

> and women. Many report DIM just plain makes them feel

> better as well.

>

>

>

> Chrysin is kind of a stinker because no one really knows

> how to dose it, as

> there is no standardization. Also, it's very difficult to

> get it into a

> transdermal, as it must be ground and ground and ground

> first-few

> compounders are willing to go to the trouble. Also, chrysin

> has (besides

> anti-aromatase) SERM-class drug effects, and IMPO drugs of

> this class are

> not for long term use in adult males. This is why I stick

> to Arimidex

> (anastrozole), a competitive inhibitor of aromatase. I

> prefer this

> preparation over the so-called " suicide " inhibitors.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only

> for the personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and

> is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not

> the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have

> received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination,

> distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have

> received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and

> delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil, Tom and others,

I also have a similar issue. I was diagonised Hypothyroid back in 2007 and the

first time my Endo said I am borderline and he will wait another 6months to see

if my levels go back up and they did. So he waited another 6months to see if

they stay in range or not but they were low again. So he finally checked for my

Thyroid antibodies and they were extremely out of range so he said I can start

taking Synthroid 50mcg. So I started on Synthroid and with in 4-5 months I

started feeling very low energy and loss of sexual interest and I went back to

the doctor only to know that my T levels are falling down lower and lower. So he

put me on Test and all the story follows.

But I also read elsewhere that for some reason once we are put on synthroid, the

T levels go down. And reading your post I feel I may have to stop all the meds

once again and see if it helps me bring back my T levels.

I think there is some unknown link between both of them.

Just want to share.

Joe

> >

> >

> >

> > > From: <gibcast@...>

> >

> > > Subject: E2

> >

> > > " "

> > < >

> >

> > > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:14 AM

> >

> > > How fast does it fall when I quit gel

> >

> > > like I did? I feel better Off the gel. I did feel good

> > on

> >

> > > the gel initially, probably til E2 rose.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I just question taking the gel at all now. Why do we

> > take

> >

> > > T-gel? Give me the reasos why we need it!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Cause my libido always rocked, TIL I tried the gel.

> > Then it

> >

> > > went bad!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > T.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > ------------------------------------

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

[Guest guest]

No Joe don't try this it will not work once you start on TRT your brain gets

shut down from sending the LH and FSH message to your Testis to tell them to

make Testosterone. If you stop you can or will crash and this will make you

sick this is why I tell men to find out why they are low before going on TRT

with Tom he has not been on this gel long enough to shut his self down.

It's best to work with Dr. when trying this he knows how to jump start you

if you can be jump started with out the help of a Dr. like him your going to

crash.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: E2

>

> Date: Thursday, August 26, 2010, 4:29 PM

> Phil, Tom and others,

> I also have a similar issue. I was diagonised Hypothyroid

> back in 2007 and the first time my Endo said I am borderline

> and he will wait another 6months to see if my levels go back

> up and they did. So he waited another 6months to see if they

> stay in range or not but they were low again. So he finally

> checked for my Thyroid antibodies and they were extremely

> out of range so he said I can start taking Synthroid 50mcg.

> So I started on Synthroid and with in 4-5 months I started

> feeling very low energy and loss of sexual interest and I

> went back to the doctor only to know that my T levels are

> falling down lower and lower. So he put me on Test and all

> the story follows.

>

> But I also read elsewhere that for some reason once we are

> put on synthroid, the T levels go down. And reading your

> post I feel I may have to stop all the meds once again and

> see if it helps me bring back my T levels.

> I think there is some unknown link between both of them.

> Just want to share.

>

> Joe

>

>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > From: <gibcast@...>

> > >

> > > > Subject: E2

> > >

> > > > " "

> > > < >

> > >

> > > > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:14 AM

> > >

> > > > How fast does it fall when I quit gel

> > >

> > > > like I did? I feel better Off the gel. I did

> feel good

> > > on

> > >

> > > > the gel initially, probably til E2 rose.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I just question taking the gel at all now.

> Why do we

> > > take

> > >

> > > > T-gel? Give me the reasos why we need it!

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Cause my libido always rocked, TIL I tried

> the gel.

> > > Then it

> > >

> > > > went bad!

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > T.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >       

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you Phil,

I know I may crash but still I want to try. But I wont try it myself. I will ask

my doc to work with Dr. to see if I can be jump started.

I think its not too long that I started TRT. Sometime in early 2009 I started

it. I have some HOPE that I will get well somehow and so I wanted to try all the

possible ways.

I will keep you posted on how its going. You have been a great help and support

to all of us here. May God Bless You.

Thank you,

Joe

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > From: <gibcast@>

> > > >

> > > > > Subject: E2

> > > >

> > > > > " "

> > > > < >

> > > >

> > > > > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:14 AM

> > > >

> > > > > How fast does it fall when I quit gel

> > > >

> > > > > like I did? I feel better Off the gel. I did

> > feel good

> > > > on

> > > >

> > > > > the gel initially, probably til E2 rose.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > I just question taking the gel at all now.

> > Why do we

> > > > take

> > > >

> > > > > T-gel? Give me the reasos why we need it!

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Cause my libido always rocked, TIL I tried

> > the gel.

> > > > Then it

> > > >

> > > > > went bad!

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > T.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >       

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

I pray it all works out for you men on TRT over a short time get shut down Dr.

like Dr. know what to try.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: E2

>

> Date: Thursday, August 26, 2010, 4:49 PM

>

> Thank you Phil,

>

> I know I may crash but still I want to try. But I wont try

> it myself. I will ask my doc to work with Dr. to see if

> I can be jump started.

>

> I think its not too long that I started TRT. Sometime in

> early 2009 I started it. I have some HOPE that I will get

> well somehow and so I wanted to try all the possible ways.

>

> I will keep you posted on how its going. You have been a

> great help and support to all of us here. May God Bless

> You.

>

> Thank you,

> Joe

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: <gibcast@>

> > > > >

> > > > > > Subject: E2

> > > > >

> > > > > > " "

> > > > > < >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010,

> 11:14 AM

> > > > >

> > > > > > How fast does it fall when I quit

> gel

> > > > >

> > > > > > like I did? I feel better Off the

> gel. I did

> > > feel good

> > > > > on

> > > > >

> > > > > > the gel initially, probably til E2

> rose.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > I just question taking the gel at

> all now.

> > > Why do we

> > > > > take

> > > > >

> > > > > > T-gel? Give me the reasos why we

> need it!

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Cause my libido always rocked, TIL

> I tried

> > > the gel.

> > > > > Then it

> > > > >

> > > > > > went bad!

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > T.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >       

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Joe, if you have Hashi's and 50 mcg was less than your own thyroid was

producing, then it would make you worse. Average dose is about 100-125 mg if

you're taking Synthroid type drugs. Many do better on natural desiccated

thyroid like Armour, or by adding some T3 (Cytomel) to their Synthroid. Have

you had your Free T3, Free T4, and reverse T3 checked? Forgot if you already

reported this.

Barb

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > From: <gibcast@>

> > >

> > > > Subject: E2

> > >

> > > > " "

> > > < >

> > >

> > > > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:14 AM

> > >

> > > > How fast does it fall when I quit gel

> > >

> > > > like I did? I feel better Off the gel. I did feel good

> > > on

> > >

> > > > the gel initially, probably til E2 rose.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I just question taking the gel at all now. Why do we

> > > take

> > >

> > > > T-gel? Give me the reasos why we need it!

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Cause my libido always rocked, TIL I tried the gel.

> > > Then it

> > >

> > > > went bad!

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > T.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you Barb.

Yes. I have Hashi and now I am on 88mcg of Synthroid. I am taking a series of

bloodtests from last week.

I took one just before my TC shot and again I took another after 3 days of my TC

shot and also am waiting on my T3,RT3 etc labs that I got them done last week.

I will be taking another test for Test and E2 next week by taking 1/4th tab of

arimidex. So with all these 5 blood tests .... I will be analysing what's my

optimal dose of T is and also if DIM is enough or start arimidex.

What do you think of trying jumpstarting my pituitary ? I want to try and see if

it helps.

Thank you,

Joe

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > From: <gibcast@>

> > > >

> > > > > Subject: E2

> > > >

> > > > > " "

> > > > < >

> > > >

> > > > > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:14 AM

> > > >

> > > > > How fast does it fall when I quit gel

> > > >

> > > > > like I did? I feel better Off the gel. I did feel good

> > > > on

> > > >

> > > > > the gel initially, probably til E2 rose.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > I just question taking the gel at all now. Why do we

> > > > take

> > > >

> > > > > T-gel? Give me the reasos why we need it!

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Cause my libido always rocked, TIL I tried the gel.

> > > > Then it

> > > >

> > > > > went bad!

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > T.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

If you have the money and the time, I'd say go for it! You'll never know till

you try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: <gibcast@>

> > > > >

> > > > > > Subject: E2

> > > > >

> > > > > > " "

> > > > > < >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:14 AM

> > > > >

> > > > > > How fast does it fall when I quit gel

> > > > >

> > > > > > like I did? I feel better Off the gel. I did feel good

> > > > > on

> > > > >

> > > > > > the gel initially, probably til E2 rose.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > I just question taking the gel at all now. Why do we

> > > > > take

> > > > >

> > > > > > T-gel? Give me the reasos why we need it!

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Cause my libido always rocked, TIL I tried the gel.

> > > > > Then it

> > > > >

> > > > > > went bad!

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > T.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Yes 50 mcgs seams like very little to start I had to stop Armour and do

Synthroid my Dr. started me on 250 mcgs. But I am on HGH and it is making my

Thyroid work only low on T4.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: E2

>

> Date: Thursday, August 26, 2010, 6:03 PM

> Joe, if you have Hashi's and 50 mcg

> was less than your own thyroid was producing, then it would

> make you worse.  Average dose is about 100-125 mg if

> you're taking Synthroid type drugs.  Many do better on

> natural desiccated thyroid like Armour, or by adding some T3

> (Cytomel) to their Synthroid.  Have you had your Free

> T3, Free T4, and reverse T3 checked?  Forgot if you

> already reported this.

>

> Barb

>

>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > From: <gibcast@>

> > > >

> > > > > Subject: E2

> > > >

> > > > > " "

> > > > < >

> > > >

> > > > > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:14

> AM

> > > >

> > > > > How fast does it fall when I quit gel

> > > >

> > > > > like I did? I feel better Off the gel.

> I did feel good

> > > > on

> > > >

> > > > > the gel initially, probably til E2

> rose.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > I just question taking the gel at all

> now. Why do we

> > > > take

> > > >

> > > > > T-gel? Give me the reasos why we need

> it!

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Cause my libido always rocked, TIL I

> tried the gel.

> > > > Then it

> > > >

> > > > > went bad!

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > T.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Sendt fra min iPhone

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >       

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >