Re: After three years of being on TRT

[Guest guest]

I think our problem is one that a lot of Doctors are at various stages

in knowledge. My primary Doctor is a great " diagnostic " but she was

still thinking Monthly Injections as one of the options. I gave her

some of the info I've picked up like the AACE guidelines and the book

the Testosterone Syndrome. She later thanked me and told me this was

very good stuff.

I did speak to three doctors about HCG for testicular atrophy and all

said the same thing. Not safe for long term use. When I asked one

specificly why he said " There are no studies of large groups using HCG

for long term use. Thus I feel this is unsafe and unwarrented for

this goal. " He said that he would never put anyone on HCG (or clomid)

for more than 6 months.

I'm still tending to believe them. But I would like to know more

about this. Is there a mainstream report like the AACE guidelines or

whatever that speaks about using HCG or Clomid?

[Guest guest]

To me it is just common sense it is no different then doing T shots many men

that are secondary do HCG to keep there T levels up. I have talked many men

that have been on HCG only of yrs. Some of these men are patients of Dr.

Shippen the Dr. that wrote the bood The Testosterone Syndrome. Best thing I can

do for you is tell you to go to Dr. 's site and read his TRT: A Recipe for

Success and his HCG update at www.allthingsmale.com

And when you talk to a Dr. that knows nothing about low does HCG they think

your talking about doing dose's of 1500 to 2000 IU's we are talking about low

dam low dose's like 250 IU's 2x's a week. Here is a link.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

Phil

james186282 <pillow@...> wrote:

I think our problem is one that a lot of Doctors are at various stages

in knowledge. My primary Doctor is a great " diagnostic " but she was

still thinking Monthly Injections as one of the options. I gave her

some of the info I've picked up like the AACE guidelines and the book

the Testosterone Syndrome. She later thanked me and told me this was

very good stuff.

I did speak to three doctors about HCG for testicular atrophy and all

said the same thing. Not safe for long term use. When I asked one

specificly why he said " There are no studies of large groups using HCG

for long term use. Thus I feel this is unsafe and unwarrented for

this goal. " He said that he would never put anyone on HCG (or clomid)

for more than 6 months.

I'm still tending to believe them. But I would like to know more

about this. Is there a mainstream report like the AACE guidelines or

whatever that speaks about using HCG or Clomid?

[Guest guest]

Hi

What do the initials HMG stand for? Is this readily available? The

cost as compared to HcG? Thanks

>

> FSH/LH shots-This is by far and away the best method for those of

us whose testicles can

> make their own T, and this is so low tech and simple that it is an

insult to those of us who

> suffer with the malady of low T. A very cheap source of these

hormones is commonly

> called HMG, and HMG is obtained from the urine of menopausal women

(this is a very

> renewable and constant source!!!). rFSH and rLH are commonly

available, but due to the

> fact that they are viewed as fertility medications, the prices and

profits are not kept in the

> real world.

>

> If I could get a doctor to prescribe me a blend of rFSH and rLH for

injection along with

> some arimidex, i would change to that Dr in a heart beat!!!! The

ideal treatment would be

> to use a pump to automatically inject a blend of FSH and LH

>

> Dr. Crowley at Harvard University has been working on a study using

a pump system

> similar to those used by diabetics to " inject " normal amounts of LH

and FSH in to the body

> according to the body's natural rhythms. I only worked with his

team for a short period of

> time, so he may also be working directly with the hormones that

release FSH and LH as

> well.

>

> In my own experience, having FSH and LH in your system making your

own T and kick-

> starting sperm production just feels better. Even though fertility

may not be desired or

> needed, having the FSH in your system and producing sperm is

brining the body closer to

> its normal function. In addition, it lets the body approach normal

sexual function. I plan

> to research the psychological and physiological benefits of having

FSH and LH in your

> body in the ranges that normal men have.

>

> In the end we are being victimized by the gluttonous drug

companies, and I for one would

> like to see concerned parties to build up a co-op type of pharmacy

where paying for big

> execs, stock holders, drug reps, and huge advertising budgets are

not the focus. After all

> this is not rocket science!!!!

>

> my .02

>

> S

>

[Guest guest]

If my memory serves me right Dr. said that HMG I think is to build up FSH

and this is just for sprim has not effect on Testosterone.

Phil

thombow <thombow@...> wrote:

Hi

What do the initials HMG stand for? Is this readily available? The

cost as compared to HcG? Thanks

>

> FSH/LH shots-This is by far and away the best method for those of

us whose testicles can

> make their own T, and this is so low tech and simple that it is an

insult to those of us who

> suffer with the malady of low T. A very cheap source of these

hormones is commonly

> called HMG, and HMG is obtained from the urine of menopausal women

(this is a very

> renewable and constant source!!!). rFSH and rLH are commonly

available, but due to the

> fact that they are viewed as fertility medications, the prices and

profits are not kept in the

> real world.

>

> If I could get a doctor to prescribe me a blend of rFSH and rLH for

injection along with

> some arimidex, i would change to that Dr in a heart beat!!!! The

ideal treatment would be

> to use a pump to automatically inject a blend of FSH and LH

>

> Dr. Crowley at Harvard University has been working on a study using

a pump system

> similar to those used by diabetics to " inject " normal amounts of LH

and FSH in to the body

> according to the body's natural rhythms. I only worked with his

team for a short period of

> time, so he may also be working directly with the hormones that

release FSH and LH as

> well.

>

> In my own experience, having FSH and LH in your system making your

own T and kick-

> starting sperm production just feels better. Even though fertility

may not be desired or

> needed, having the FSH in your system and producing sperm is

brining the body closer to

> its normal function. In addition, it lets the body approach normal

sexual function. I plan

> to research the psychological and physiological benefits of having

FSH and LH in your

> body in the ranges that normal men have.

>

> In the end we are being victimized by the gluttonous drug

companies, and I for one would

> like to see concerned parties to build up a co-op type of pharmacy

where paying for big

> execs, stock holders, drug reps, and huge advertising budgets are

not the focus. After all

> this is not rocket science!!!!

>

> my .02

>

> S

>

[Guest guest]

HMG stands for human menopausal gonadotrophin.

It wasn't in the ------ medical dictionary, I had

to use an endocrinology dictionary. It is also

known as menotropin according to a endocrinolgy

textbook. A brand name in the textbook is Pergonal.

Quote: " In patients with more severe deficiencies,

menotropins (Pergonal), available in bottles containing

75 IU each of FSH and LH, is added to chorionic

gonadatrophin therapy after 12 to 18 months and is administered

in a dosage of one vial intramuscularly three times a week. "

That is all I " know " . Now it is time for bed.

> Hi

>

> What do the initials HMG stand for? Is this readily available? The

> cost as compared to HcG? Thanks

>

>

>

>

> >

> > FSH/LH shots-This is by far and away the best method for those of

> us whose testicles can

> > make their own T, and this is so low tech and simple that it is

an

> insult to those of us who

> > suffer with the malady of low T. A very cheap source of these

> hormones is commonly

> > called HMG, and HMG is obtained from the urine of menopausal

women

> (this is a very

> > renewable and constant source!!!). rFSH and rLH are commonly

> available, but due to the

> > fact that they are viewed as fertility medications, the prices

and

> profits are not kept in the

> > real world.

> >

> > If I could get a doctor to prescribe me a blend of rFSH and rLH

for

> injection along with

> > some arimidex, i would change to that Dr in a heart beat!!!! The

> ideal treatment would be

> > to use a pump to automatically inject a blend of FSH and LH

> >

> > Dr. Crowley at Harvard University has been working on a study

using

> a pump system

> > similar to those used by diabetics to " inject " normal amounts of

LH

> and FSH in to the body

> > according to the body's natural rhythms. I only worked with his

> team for a short period of

> > time, so he may also be working directly with the hormones that

> release FSH and LH as

> > well.

> >

> > In my own experience, having FSH and LH in your system making

your

> own T and kick-

> > starting sperm production just feels better. Even though

fertility

> may not be desired or

> > needed, having the FSH in your system and producing sperm is

> brining the body closer to

> > its normal function. In addition, it lets the body approach

normal

> sexual function. I plan

> > to research the psychological and physiological benefits of

having

> FSH and LH in your

> > body in the ranges that normal men have.

> >

> > In the end we are being victimized by the gluttonous drug

> companies, and I for one would

> > like to see concerned parties to build up a co-op type of

pharmacy

> where paying for big

> > execs, stock holders, drug reps, and huge advertising budgets are

> not the focus. After all

> > this is not rocket science!!!!

> >

> > my .02

> >

> > S

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yep this is the one Dr. was talking about.

Phil

betaine_hcl <no_reply > wrote:

HMG stands for human menopausal gonadotrophin.

It wasn't in the ------ medical dictionary, I had

to use an endocrinology dictionary. It is also

known as menotropin according to a endocrinolgy

textbook. A brand name in the textbook is Pergonal.

Quote: " In patients with more severe deficiencies,

menotropins (Pergonal), available in bottles containing

75 IU each of FSH and LH, is added to chorionic

gonadatrophin therapy after 12 to 18 months and is administered

in a dosage of one vial intramuscularly three times a week. "

That is all I " know " . Now it is time for bed.

> Hi

>

> What do the initials HMG stand for? Is this readily available? The

> cost as compared to HcG? Thanks

>

>

>

>

> >

> > FSH/LH shots-This is by far and away the best method for those of

> us whose testicles can

> > make their own T, and this is so low tech and simple that it is

an

> insult to those of us who

> > suffer with the malady of low T. A very cheap source of these

> hormones is commonly

> > called HMG, and HMG is obtained from the urine of menopausal

women

> (this is a very

> > renewable and constant source!!!). rFSH and rLH are commonly

> available, but due to the

> > fact that they are viewed as fertility medications, the prices

and

> profits are not kept in the

> > real world.

> >

> > If I could get a doctor to prescribe me a blend of rFSH and rLH

for

> injection along with

> > some arimidex, i would change to that Dr in a heart beat!!!! The

> ideal treatment would be

> > to use a pump to automatically inject a blend of FSH and LH

> >

> > Dr. Crowley at Harvard University has been working on a study

using

> a pump system

> > similar to those used by diabetics to " inject " normal amounts of

LH

> and FSH in to the body

> > according to the body's natural rhythms. I only worked with his

> team for a short period of

> > time, so he may also be working directly with the hormones that

> release FSH and LH as

> > well.

> >

> > In my own experience, having FSH and LH in your system making

your

> own T and kick-

> > starting sperm production just feels better. Even though

fertility

> may not be desired or

> > needed, having the FSH in your system and producing sperm is

> brining the body closer to

> > its normal function. In addition, it lets the body approach

normal

> sexual function. I plan

> > to research the psychological and physiological benefits of

having

> FSH and LH in your

> > body in the ranges that normal men have.

> >

> > In the end we are being victimized by the gluttonous drug

> companies, and I for one would

> > like to see concerned parties to build up a co-op type of

pharmacy

> where paying for big

> > execs, stock holders, drug reps, and huge advertising budgets are

> not the focus. After all

> > this is not rocket science!!!!

> >

> > my .02

> >

> > S

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

You mentioned pellets as being basic TRT and less complications for

those with low T levels. Since 1992 long before the current forms of

TRT available this was the only solution other than injections which

are less patient friendly.

Trouble is finding a competent doctor that will provide Pellet

therapy. Do you know of any?

I have to travel to Augusta, GA to see Dr. Gambrell.

ernestnolan

>

> After being on TRT for over three years and trying various

different forms of T, I have

> come up with a few observations and conclusions. My experience is

from having the type

> of Hypogonadism (Secondary) that is due from insufficient pituitary

activity. So please

> keep this in mind when you read my post.

>

> I was first on the androderm patch. This treatment system did next

to nothing for

> increasing my T levels and it made for some major skin irritations.

This was ridiculously

> expensive even with decent insurance.

>

> I then tried androgel. This worked much better, but it is still

very cumbersome to apply

> this gel each day, and it is grossly overpriced even with insurance.

Testosterone itself is

> not something that can be patented, so the big drug companies get

their patents through

> the gel and suspension mechanisms and technology.

>

>

> For a brief time, I tried some another big name gel. My only

complaint is that this gel

> smelled real musky.

>

> I was on a bio-identical compounded T cream for some time, and this

was ok. However,

> there were still transference issues that I did not like and it is

still high maintenance. This

> was a bit more affordable though.

>

>

> HCG shots-these will make your testicles start to return to their

pre-TRT size which is a

> very pleasing side effect of the treatment. Why this stuff costs so

much, and why many

> doctors do not include this in their over all TRT program is a

mystery to me. HCG is

> distilled from the urine of pregnant women and getting HCG via this

manner is old

> technology and is not that expensive.

>

> rHCG is also available, but studies seem to indicate that the

synthetic stuff is not any

> better than the HCG from urine, so many companies do not bother.

HCG and rHCG are

> used in the fertility side of medicine and this label alone results

in a unjustified major

> price jump to the end user

>

> While on the topic of HCG, If your doctor will not prescribe you a

" cycle " of HCG to

> rehabilitate your testicles from time to time, I would find a new

doctor or endo.

>

> Also, if your doctor or endo does not keenly monitor your T (not

just total T-see Dr.

> Shipmans book if you have questions) levels and your E levels and

the T/E ratio, and use

> aromatase inhibitors, you may want to get a new doctor. If a doctor

is going to manage a

> man's T levels, by default the doctor has to watch, monitor, and

possibly treat the

> patient's E levels.

>

> If your MD does occasionally check your prolactin levels and you are

on antidepressants,

> you need to get your doctor to check this. Increased prolactin will

induce and/or worsen

> hypogonadism and can cause gynocomastia. Many of the big name

pharmaceutical

> companies have been less than honest about the sexual side effects

of various psycotropic

> medications and one of the culprits is an increase in prolactin.

Raising T when there is too

> much Prolactin in the system will not accomplish very much and you

will likely get some

> aromatase activity that you do not want in the process.

>

> Pelletts-this is a low tech method, but the release is constant and

it is low maintenance.

> In many aspects this is superior to the gels and shots. This is

such a common sense way

> to go, and the testosterone pellets are not that expensive. If you

get the in fashion " bio

> identical " type, the pellets are more expensive.

>

> FSH/LH shots-This is by far and away the best method for those of us

whose testicles can

> make their own T, and this is so low tech and simple that it is an

insult to those of us who

> suffer with the malady of low T. A very cheap source of these

hormones is commonly

> called HMG, and HMG is obtained from the urine of menopausal women

(this is a very

> renewable and constant source!!!). rFSH and rLH are commonly

available, but due to the

> fact that they are viewed as fertility medications, the prices and

profits are not kept in the

> real world.

>

> If I could get a doctor to prescribe me a blend of rFSH and rLH for

injection along with

> some arimidex, i would change to that Dr in a heart beat!!!! The

ideal treatment would be

> to use a pump to automatically inject a blend of FSH and LH

>

> Dr. Crowley at Harvard University has been working on a study using

a pump system

> similar to those used by diabetics to " inject " normal amounts of LH

and FSH in to the body

> according to the body's natural rhythms. I only worked with his

team for a short period of

> time, so he may also be working directly with the hormones that

release FSH and LH as

> well.

>

> In my own experience, having FSH and LH in your system making your

own T and kick-

> starting sperm production just feels better. Even though fertility

may not be desired or

> needed, having the FSH in your system and producing sperm is brining

the body closer to

> its normal function. In addition, it lets the body approach normal

sexual function. I plan

> to research the psychological and physiological benefits of having

FSH and LH in your

> body in the ranges that normal men have.

>

> In the end we are being victimized by the gluttonous drug companies,

and I for one would

> like to see concerned parties to build up a co-op type of pharmacy

where paying for big

> execs, stock holders, drug reps, and huge advertising budgets are

not the focus. After all

> this is not rocket science!!!!

>

> my .02

>

> S

>