Re: Osteoporosis at 50 for a man with gynecomastia -- but normal Ts. Odd?

[Guest guest]

We all are not made to the same specifications and

nor do we eat the same foods or live in the same

environment. Perhaps you've been low most of your

life and your decline has been less than

what some of us have had.

By the time of death, about 15 percent of males

will have osteoporosis. So perhaps it rare because

the Doc isn't looking.

In my opinion, most person don't get enough

vitamin D3 due to modern life and/or high latitude.

At higher latitude, one can't get enough solar UV

to get vitamin D3 from skin synthesis.

I take 4000 IU / 100 micrograms cholecalciferol

(vitamin D3)during the fall and winter.

Read Vieth, Heaney, and Holick on the topic.

Further, most don't get enough vitamin K in the

form of dark green leafy vegetables when it

comes to the formation of osteocalcin.

I also take a 10 mg K supplement.

DHEA can increase estrogen levels.

Some of it is converted into estrogen.

Of course, getting T levels up should

do the same.

>

> I realize that my situation relates to a smalll number of you out

> there, but there are a few of you with endo-research interests

related

> to gyne. (And also it puts my situation on thr ecord in cyberspace

in

> case anyone has a similar problem in the future.)

>

> Anyway, to summarize: Have had adolescence-induced gyne for 35

years.

> Am now 50. Had a complete CBC and the endo found all T's were normal

> (E2 borderline low, however). My full labs are below. So basically,

> the endo said my gyne was ideopathic and my hormones are fine -- go

> have surgery of you want; it won't grow back. I was suspicious

because

> I have a few other mild symptoms of hypogonadism. But hey the

numbers

> are the numbers, the doc said. I was preplexed by the low estrogen

> which is really conter-intuitive with gyne. The doc, to humor me,

said

> let's run a bone density scane to check you for osteoporosis. Well

> guess what: I have it in my left hip and it is starting in my left.

> The doc is baffled. Says it is very rare. He says he usally only

sees

> this in men my age if they have low testosterone. But my numbers

don't

> show that, in any way shape or form and on several testings. Now he

> wants to check my thyroid. Could this be a thyroid issue? Both the

> gyne, the osteoporsis and the low estrogen?

>

> Here are my most recent labs:

>

> 1. Total T - 474 with 241-827 ng/dl the reference range.

> 2. Free T - 113 with 34-194 pg/ml the range

> 3. Free and weakly bound T - 238 with 84-402 ng/dl the range.

> 4. SHBG - 29 with 7-50 NMOL/L the range

>

> Hmmmm:

>

> 1. T3 reverse - 0.22 with 0.19-0.46 the range

> 2. High-sensitivity estradoil - 13 with 10-50 the range

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Thanks in advance.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I realize that my situation relates to a smalll number of you out

> there, but there are a few of you with endo-research interests related

> to gyne. (And also it puts my situation on thr ecord in cyberspace in

> case anyone has a similar problem in the future.)

>

> Anyway, to summarize: Have had adolescence-induced gyne for 35 years.

> Am now 50. Had a complete CBC and the endo found all T's were normal

> (E2 borderline low, however). My full labs are below. So basically,

> the endo said my gyne was ideopathic and my hormones are fine -- go

> have surgery of you want; it won't grow back. I was suspicious because

> I have a few other mild symptoms of hypogonadism. But hey the numbers

> are the numbers, the doc said. I was preplexed by the low estrogen

> which is really conter-intuitive with gyne. The doc, to humor me, said

> let's run a bone density scane to check you for osteoporosis. Well

> guess what: I have it in my left hip and it is starting in my left.

> The doc is baffled. Says it is very rare. He says he usally only sees

> this in men my age if they have low testosterone. But my numbers don't

> show that, in any way shape or form and on several testings. Now he

> wants to check my thyroid. Could this be a thyroid issue? Both the

> gyne, the osteoporsis and the low estrogen?

>

> Here are my most recent labs:

>

> 1. Total T - 474 with 241-827 ng/dl the reference range.

> 2. Free T - 113 with 34-194 pg/ml the range

> 3. Free and weakly bound T - 238 with 84-402 ng/dl the range.

> 4. SHBG - 29 with 7-50 NMOL/L the range

>

> Hmmmm:

>

> 1. T3 reverse - 0.22 with 0.19-0.46 the range

> 2. High-sensitivity estradoil - 13 with 10-50 the range

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Thanks in advance.

>

What was the T and Z score on bone density?

[Guest guest]

If you can afford a couple of thousand dollars, I say see a good

cosmetic surgeon who has a good background of breast fat removal on

males. Have the procedure done, and while they are they and you are

knocked out - have them suck some fat from your stomache and sides also

if you wnat it done. It is a piece of cake, really no bad pain

afterwards, maybe miss work a couple of days if you still work a

regular job. You will like the newer, flatter you and will feel better

about yourself. Wih the fat gone from that area, you will have a real

incentive to cut out all sugar and fatty foods because you will be

given a new lease on body image and will want to keep yourself that way.

I had it done, and that's how I feel about it. Give it a shot!

norton

[Guest guest]

The T-scores were 1.91, 2.75 and 2.44

> >

> > I realize that my situation relates to a smalll number of you out

> > there, but there are a few of you with endo-research interests related

> > to gyne. (And also it puts my situation on thr ecord in cyberspace in

> > case anyone has a similar problem in the future.)

> >

> > Anyway, to summarize: Have had adolescence-induced gyne for 35 years.

> > Am now 50. Had a complete CBC and the endo found all T's were normal

> > (E2 borderline low, however). My full labs are below. So basically,

> > the endo said my gyne was ideopathic and my hormones are fine -- go

> > have surgery of you want; it won't grow back. I was suspicious because

> > I have a few other mild symptoms of hypogonadism. But hey the numbers

> > are the numbers, the doc said. I was preplexed by the low estrogen

> > which is really conter-intuitive with gyne. The doc, to humor me, said

> > let's run a bone density scane to check you for osteoporosis. Well

> > guess what: I have it in my left hip and it is starting in my left.

> > The doc is baffled. Says it is very rare. He says he usally only sees

> > this in men my age if they have low testosterone. But my numbers don't

> > show that, in any way shape or form and on several testings. Now he

> > wants to check my thyroid. Could this be a thyroid issue? Both the

> > gyne, the osteoporsis and the low estrogen?

> >

> > Here are my most recent labs:

> >

> > 1. Total T - 474 with 241-827 ng/dl the reference range.

> > 2. Free T - 113 with 34-194 pg/ml the range

> > 3. Free and weakly bound T - 238 with 84-402 ng/dl the range.

> > 4. SHBG - 29 with 7-50 NMOL/L the range

> >

> > Hmmmm:

> >

> > 1. T3 reverse - 0.22 with 0.19-0.46 the range

> > 2. High-sensitivity estradoil - 13 with 10-50 the range

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

> > Thanks in advance.

> >

>

>

> What was the T and Z score on bone density?

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting. I have always had small bones/joints for a guy my age.

I live at sea level. Literally. Have for most of my life.

DHEA, apparelty, I am actually borderline high in. And I have

borderline LOW E2. Go figure. And if you do, let my docs know, because

they are scratching their heads.

> >

> > I realize that my situation relates to a smalll number of you out

> > there, but there are a few of you with endo-research interests

> related

> > to gyne. (And also it puts my situation on thr ecord in cyberspace

> in

> > case anyone has a similar problem in the future.)

> >

> > Anyway, to summarize: Have had adolescence-induced gyne for 35

> years.

> > Am now 50. Had a complete CBC and the endo found all T's were normal

> > (E2 borderline low, however). My full labs are below. So basically,

> > the endo said my gyne was ideopathic and my hormones are fine -- go

> > have surgery of you want; it won't grow back. I was suspicious

> because

> > I have a few other mild symptoms of hypogonadism. But hey the

> numbers

> > are the numbers, the doc said. I was preplexed by the low estrogen

> > which is really conter-intuitive with gyne. The doc, to humor me,

> said

> > let's run a bone density scane to check you for osteoporosis. Well

> > guess what: I have it in my left hip and it is starting in my left.

> > The doc is baffled. Says it is very rare. He says he usally only

> sees

> > this in men my age if they have low testosterone. But my numbers

> don't

> > show that, in any way shape or form and on several testings. Now he

> > wants to check my thyroid. Could this be a thyroid issue? Both the

> > gyne, the osteoporsis and the low estrogen?

> >

> > Here are my most recent labs:

> >

> > 1. Total T - 474 with 241-827 ng/dl the reference range.

> > 2. Free T - 113 with 34-194 pg/ml the range

> > 3. Free and weakly bound T - 238 with 84-402 ng/dl the range.

> > 4. SHBG - 29 with 7-50 NMOL/L the range

> >

> > Hmmmm:

> >

> > 1. T3 reverse - 0.22 with 0.19-0.46 the range

> > 2. High-sensitivity estradoil - 13 with 10-50 the range

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

> > Thanks in advance.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well I was considering cosmetic surgery. In fact, the gynecomastia was

the impetus for all this medical detective work. I wanted to make sure

my hormones wouldn't allow it to grow back, which apparently happens

in something like 30 percent of the cases. Now, with the osteo issue,

it raises the possibility that there may be something hormonally wrong

that is causing both gyne and osteoporsis. Just going and getting

surgery may not be preducent until determining the cause of the

gynecomastia and surgery also has nothing to do with the osteo.

>

> If you can afford a couple of thousand dollars, I say see a good

> cosmetic surgeon who has a good background of breast fat removal on

> males. Have the procedure done, and while they are they and you are

> knocked out - have them suck some fat from your stomache and sides also

> if you wnat it done. It is a piece of cake, really no bad pain

> afterwards, maybe miss work a couple of days if you still work a

> regular job. You will like the newer, flatter you and will feel better

> about yourself. Wih the fat gone from that area, you will have a real

> incentive to cut out all sugar and fatty foods because you will be

> given a new lease on body image and will want to keep yourself that way.

> I had it done, and that's how I feel about it. Give it a shot!

> norton

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there

I agree with your statement and have do since first reading your posted

messages although I did not immediately respond. Just getting T and E levels

may well not be enough medical investigations.

Seek a 2nd opinion from a teaching hospital which has a record of treating

this matter. The website of teaching hospital - certainly within UK and

USA - have research interests and profile of the senior medics in each area.

Hope this helps

_________________________________________

Randle

_________________________________________

Re: Osteoporosis at 50 for a man with

gynecomastia -- but normal Ts. Odd?

> Well I was considering cosmetic surgery. In fact, the gynecomastia was

> the impetus for all this medical detective work. I wanted to make sure

> my hormones wouldn't allow it to grow back, which apparently happens

> in something like 30 percent of the cases. Now, with the osteo issue,

> it raises the possibility that there may be something hormonally wrong

> that is causing both gyne and osteoporsis. Just going and getting

> surgery may not be preducent until determining the cause of the

> gynecomastia and surgery also has nothing to do with the osteo.

>

>

>>

>> If you can afford a couple of thousand dollars, I say see a good

>> cosmetic surgeon who has a good background of breast fat removal on

>> males. Have the procedure done, and while they are they and you are

>> knocked out - have them suck some fat from your stomache and sides also

>> if you wnat it done. It is a piece of cake, really no bad pain

>> afterwards, maybe miss work a couple of days if you still work a

>> regular job. You will like the newer, flatter you and will feel better

>> about yourself. Wih the fat gone from that area, you will have a real

>> incentive to cut out all sugar and fatty foods because you will be

>> given a new lease on body image and will want to keep yourself that way.

>> I had it done, and that's how I feel about it. Give it a shot!

>> norton

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

He said LATitude, not ALTitude. The farther north of the equator you are,

the less sun exposure you get, especially in our modern world where we spend

most of our daylight hours indoors.

For white/fair-skinned folks, it only takes a couple of square inches of

skin exposed to the sunlight for a brief period of time to get your Vitamin

D supply. Darker skinned people need much longer or greater skin area

exposures because of their pigmentation. www.DrMirkin.com talks about this

a lot on his radio show.

> Re: Osteoporosis at 50 for a man with

>gynecomastia -- but normal Ts. Odd?

>

>Interesting. I have always had small bones/joints for a guy my age.

>I live at sea level. Literally. Have for most of my life.

>DHEA, apparelty, I am actually borderline high in. And I have

>borderline LOW E2. Go figure. And if you do, let my docs know,

>because they are scratching their heads.

>

>

>

>> >

>> > I realize that my situation relates to a smalll number of you out

>> > there, but there are a few of you with endo-research interests

>> related

>> > to gyne. (And also it puts my situation on thr ecord in cyberspace

>> in

>> > case anyone has a similar problem in the future.)

>> >

>> > Anyway, to summarize: Have had adolescence-induced gyne for 35

>> years.

>> > Am now 50. Had a complete CBC and the endo found all T's

>were normal

>> > (E2 borderline low, however). My full labs are below. So

>basically,

>> > the endo said my gyne was ideopathic and my hormones are

>fine -- go

>> > have surgery of you want; it won't grow back. I was suspicious

>> because

>> > I have a few other mild symptoms of hypogonadism. But hey the

>> numbers

>> > are the numbers, the doc said. I was preplexed by the low estrogen

>> > which is really conter-intuitive with gyne. The doc, to humor me,

>> said

>> > let's run a bone density scane to check you for osteoporosis. Well

>> > guess what: I have it in my left hip and it is starting in my left.

>> > The doc is baffled. Says it is very rare. He says he usally only

>> sees

>> > this in men my age if they have low testosterone. But my numbers

>> don't

>> > show that, in any way shape or form and on several

>testings. Now he

>> > wants to check my thyroid. Could this be a thyroid issue? Both the

>> > gyne, the osteoporsis and the low estrogen?

>> >

>> > Here are my most recent labs:

>> >

>> > 1. Total T - 474 with 241-827 ng/dl the reference range.

>> > 2. Free T - 113 with 34-194 pg/ml the range 3. Free and

>weakly bound

>> > T - 238 with 84-402 ng/dl the range.

>> > 4. SHBG - 29 with 7-50 NMOL/L the range

>> >

>> > Hmmmm:

>> >

>> > 1. T3 reverse - 0.22 with 0.19-0.46 the range 2. High-sensitivity

>> > estradoil - 13 with 10-50 the range

>> >

>> > Thoughts?

>> >

>> > Thanks in advance.

>> >

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> The T-scores were 1.91, 2.75 and 2.44

>

At age 50 those scores are something to be concerned

about. Testosterone is only one of many factors involved

in Osteoporosis. Your testosterone is normal, you should

be looking at other factors. I just finished reading a

Dummies guide to Osteoporosis. I would reccomend that

you read it or something similar.