Re: Crashed getting off of HCG, Depot-T advice please??

[Guest guest]

Pat what your feeling is the big changes in your does you can't feel good

stoping T meds or HCG. I would have sat down and figured out how much to low

the HCG you had and keep doing it until the new stuff came in. Also your

Estradiol has to be dam high from this get it checkes also when you go in to

tests make dam sure it's checked a test like this.

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/sr012000.htm

Don't take that from MEDCO I got Depo T from them for yrs. and it's the

cheapest way to do TRT. Ask to talk to a Pharm. Your not going to feel better

for a good 4 weeks this is how long it would take me after a crash but you will

get better a little everyday. If your E2 Estradiol is high you will need to get

it down I do good at 20pg/ml some do ok higher.

Phil

ozzpat <ozzmed@...> wrote:

I’m secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment about four

months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was feeling great

for the first month but was having problems with the skin and patches

always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to Androgel and

to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance approvals and

for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was taking

Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still haven’t had a

blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel for a week

and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt good again

(not great) but much better and my blood test came back with me in the

750’s so I thought that was great.

After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing some research

on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too much. We only

wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the Ovidrel is

concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that medication

and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap again, I

restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling like crap,

I would even say worse than I did when I started all of this. I called

my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I’m on day 4 with and

still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely irritable in a

brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every couple of hours.

My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come up but won’t

stay there!

I’m thinking that the Androgel isn’t doing much and the Ovidrel (HCG)

was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I never felt good

on this medication before the HCG but I did on the Androderm is there

a big difference between the two medications and how they get through

the skin?

I’m have another appointment with my doctor in a month and she wants

me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my levels are

after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it that long!

If my numbers do come up low I’m thinking of switching to injectable

testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone Cypionate

(Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not) doesn’t cover

it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp powder?

What is this? They don’t have any information regarding the medication

and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90 days, from

what I’m reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give me 20 doses

or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is this correct

or am I missing something????

Being I’m secondary maybe it would be better to just go to the HCG? Is

there anyone here that just uses HCG for there hypogonadism? How much

do you use and how often?

Thank you for all of your help,

Pat

---------------------------------

Want to start your own business? Learn how on Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Pat,

I've been using hcg, 1000iu every 3 days. I was using androgel,

10g, then tapered off and am now using just the hcg. It was working

for the first 3 months, I was using Novarel, then I tried to get my

insurance (Medco) to cover it and they sent the generic APP brand

and it doesn't work for me. I've been using it until they can send

the Novarel. It's like pulling teeth to work with Medco...hate it!

I don't know how long I can safely continue the hcg, but I kinda

hate to go back on the T since the hcg makes me feel pretty good and

my T levels were actually higher with the hcg than the T. I went for

a little over a week without any hcg or t, then started the generic

(APP) brand when it finally arrived. After about the fifth day

without any novarel, I felt like crap and the APP hcg hasn't fixed

it. The only thing I get with it is a slight (very slight) energy

increase for about a day. I'm hoping to get more Novarel in the

next week, cuz it was making me feel pretty good. I don't know how

long my doc will be willing to leave me on the hcg, but at the very

least, I think (hope) he might be willing to let me take a reduced

dose of both Androgel and Novarel as a long term solution. Don't

know if my experience helps you at all since we are all different.

-Dan

> I’m secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment

about four

> months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was feeling

great

> for the first month but was having problems with the skin and

patches

> always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to Androgel

and

> to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance approvals

and

> for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was taking

> Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still haven’t

had a

> blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel for a week

> and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt good

again

> (not great) but much better and my blood test came back with me in

the

> 750’s so I thought that was great.

>

> After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing some

research

> on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too much. We

only

> wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the Ovidrel is

> concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that

medication

> and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

>

> I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap again, I

> restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling like

crap,

> I would even say worse than I did when I started all of this. I

called

> my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I’m on day 4

with and

> still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely irritable

in a

> brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every couple of

hours.

> My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come up but

won’t

> stay there!

>

> I’m thinking that the Androgel isn’t doing much and the

Ovidrel (HCG)

> was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I never felt

good

> on this medication before the HCG but I did on the Androderm is

there

> a big difference between the two medications and how they get

through

> the skin?

>

> I’m have another appointment with my doctor in a month and she

wants

> me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my levels are

> after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it that long!

>

> If my numbers do come up low I’m thinking of switching to

injectable

> testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone Cypionate

> (Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

>

> Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not) doesn’t

cover

> it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp powder?

> What is this? They don’t have any information regarding the

medication

> and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

>

> The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90 days,

from

> what I’m reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give me 20

doses

> or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is this

correct

> or am I missing something????

>

> Being I’m secondary maybe it would be better to just go to the

HCG? Is

> there anyone here that just uses HCG for there hypogonadism? How

much

> do you use and how often?

>

> Thank you for all of your help,

>

> Pat

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dan,

That is very interesting about what you said regarding the Generic. My

doctor didn't check the generic box when I got my script so Medco shipped me

the Novarel at full cost after they put me through the approval process that

took three weeks (even though they didn't cover it.) I don't understand the

logic at Medco, the way the do things is why we pay so much for insurance.

The Ovidrel I was taking cost around $1500 for 90 days but my copay was $60

I switch to Novarel and I pay the full price of $130, you would think they

would try to give you an incentive to switch to a cheaper medicine, go

figure!

I was thinking of switching to the generic ($20 copay 90 days) but after

what you said about your reaction I'm starting to worry about switching

again and possibly crashing once again, it isn't pleasant.

Are you taking the Novarel SQ or IM? I started off with SQ but after not

feeling any better I switched to IM yesterday and I seem to be doing much

better now.

What made you decide on HCG over testosterone?

Thanks again,

Pat

On 12/4/06, Dan <opusnall@...> wrote:

>

> Pat,

> I've been using hcg, 1000iu every 3 days. I was using androgel,

> 10g, then tapered off and am now using just the hcg. It was working

> for the first 3 months, I was using Novarel, then I tried to get my

> insurance (Medco) to cover it and they sent the generic APP brand

> and it doesn't work for me. I've been using it until they can send

> the Novarel. It's like pulling teeth to work with Medco...hate it!

> I don't know how long I can safely continue the hcg, but I kinda

> hate to go back on the T since the hcg makes me feel pretty good and

> my T levels were actually higher with the hcg than the T. I went for

> a little over a week without any hcg or t, then started the generic

> (APP) brand when it finally arrived. After about the fifth day

> without any novarel, I felt like crap and the APP hcg hasn't fixed

> it. The only thing I get with it is a slight (very slight) energy

> increase for about a day. I'm hoping to get more Novarel in the

> next week, cuz it was making me feel pretty good. I don't know how

> long my doc will be willing to leave me on the hcg, but at the very

> least, I think (hope) he might be willing to let me take a reduced

> dose of both Androgel and Novarel as a long term solution. Don't

> know if my experience helps you at all since we are all different.

> -Dan

>

>

> > I'm secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment

> about four

> > months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was feeling

> great

> > for the first month but was having problems with the skin and

> patches

> > always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to Androgel

> and

> > to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance approvals

> and

> > for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was taking

> > Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still haven't

> had a

> > blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel for a week

> > and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt good

> again

> > (not great) but much better and my blood test came back with me in

> the

> > 750's so I thought that was great.

> >

> > After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing some

> research

> > on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too much. We

> only

> > wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the Ovidrel is

> > concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that

> medication

> > and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

> >

> > I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap again, I

> > restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling like

> crap,

> > I would even say worse than I did when I started all of this. I

> called

> > my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I'm on day 4

> with and

> > still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely irritable

> in a

> > brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every couple of

> hours.

> > My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come up but

> won't

> > stay there!

> >

> > I'm thinking that the Androgel isn't doing much and the

> Ovidrel (HCG)

> > was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I never felt

> good

> > on this medication before the HCG but I did on the Androderm is

> there

> > a big difference between the two medications and how they get

> through

> > the skin?

> >

> > I'm have another appointment with my doctor in a month and she

> wants

> > me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my levels are

> > after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it that long!

> >

> > If my numbers do come up low I'm thinking of switching to

> injectable

> > testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone Cypionate

> > (Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

> >

> > Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not) doesn't

> cover

> > it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp powder?

> > What is this? They don't have any information regarding the

> medication

> > and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

> >

> > The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90 days,

> from

> > what I'm reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give me 20

> doses

> > or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is this

> correct

> > or am I missing something????

> >

> > Being I'm secondary maybe it would be better to just go to the

> HCG? Is

> > there anyone here that just uses HCG for there hypogonadism? How

> much

> > do you use and how often?

> >

> > Thank you for all of your help,

> >

> > Pat

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dan I had the same problem with MEDCO sending me APP and from what I found out

it's not a generic to Novarel, Novarel is a generic at there web site at the

time I had this problem last yr. They know this APP brand does not work the

last time I talked to them they told me they had a lot of complants about it and

that APP pulled it back because it was not working. Now it's back and still not

working have talked to guys that had the same dam thing happen. They sent you

this shit not becasue it's a generic to Novarel but because it lell money. So

now when my DR. gives me a script I have him put on all of them Dispense As

Written. My health plain dropped MEDCO because they are changing meds and

scripts to save money at the cost of are heath. I had a pill 25mgs 2 x's a day

and they sent me 50mgs one time a day my Dr. had a hell of a time getting this

for me.

Phil

Dan <opusnall@...> wrote:

Pat,

I've been using hcg, 1000iu every 3 days. I was using androgel,

10g, then tapered off and am now using just the hcg. It was working

for the first 3 months, I was using Novarel, then I tried to get my

insurance (Medco) to cover it and they sent the generic APP brand

and it doesn't work for me. I've been using it until they can send

the Novarel. It's like pulling teeth to work with Medco...hate it!

I don't know how long I can safely continue the hcg, but I kinda

hate to go back on the T since the hcg makes me feel pretty good and

my T levels were actually higher with the hcg than the T. I went for

a little over a week without any hcg or t, then started the generic

(APP) brand when it finally arrived. After about the fifth day

without any novarel, I felt like crap and the APP hcg hasn't fixed

it. The only thing I get with it is a slight (very slight) energy

increase for about a day. I'm hoping to get more Novarel in the

next week, cuz it was making me feel pretty good. I don't know how

long my doc will be willing to leave me on the hcg, but at the very

least, I think (hope) he might be willing to let me take a reduced

dose of both Androgel and Novarel as a long term solution. Don't

know if my experience helps you at all since we are all different.

-Dan

> I’m secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment

about four

> months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was feeling

great

> for the first month but was having problems with the skin and

patches

> always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to Androgel

and

> to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance approvals

and

> for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was taking

> Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still haven’t

had a

> blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel for a week

> and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt good

again

> (not great) but much better and my blood test came back with me in

the

> 750’s so I thought that was great.

>

> After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing some

research

> on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too much. We

only

> wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the Ovidrel is

> concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that

medication

> and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

>

> I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap again, I

> restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling like

crap,

> I would even say worse than I did when I started all of this. I

called

> my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I’m on day 4

with and

> still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely irritable

in a

> brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every couple of

hours.

> My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come up but

won’t

> stay there!

>

> I’m thinking that the Androgel isn’t doing much and the

Ovidrel (HCG)

> was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I never felt

good

> on this medication before the HCG but I did on the Androderm is

there

> a big difference between the two medications and how they get

through

> the skin?

>

> I’m have another appointment with my doctor in a month and she

wants

> me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my levels are

> after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it that long!

>

> If my numbers do come up low I’m thinking of switching to

injectable

> testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone Cypionate

> (Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

>

> Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not) doesn’t

cover

> it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp powder?

> What is this? They don’t have any information regarding the

medication

> and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

>

> The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90 days,

from

> what I’m reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give me 20

doses

> or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is this

correct

> or am I missing something????

>

> Being I’m secondary maybe it would be better to just go to the

HCG? Is

> there anyone here that just uses HCG for there hypogonadism? How

much

> do you use and how often?

>

> Thank you for all of your help,

>

> Pat

---------------------------------

Have a burning question? Go to Answers and get answers from real people

who know.

[Guest guest]

Wal-Mart or Wal-Greens has Novarel for 1/3 of what you paided.

Phil

Osborne <ozzmed@...> wrote:

Thanks Dan,

That is very interesting about what you said regarding the Generic. My

doctor didn't check the generic box when I got my script so Medco shipped me

the Novarel at full cost after they put me through the approval process that

took three weeks (even though they didn't cover it.) I don't understand the

logic at Medco, the way the do things is why we pay so much for insurance.

The Ovidrel I was taking cost around $1500 for 90 days but my copay was $60

I switch to Novarel and I pay the full price of $130, you would think they

would try to give you an incentive to switch to a cheaper medicine, go

figure!

I was thinking of switching to the generic ($20 copay 90 days) but after

what you said about your reaction I'm starting to worry about switching

again and possibly crashing once again, it isn't pleasant.

Are you taking the Novarel SQ or IM? I started off with SQ but after not

feeling any better I switched to IM yesterday and I seem to be doing much

better now.

What made you decide on HCG over testosterone?

Thanks again,

Pat

On 12/4/06, Dan <opusnall@...> wrote:

>

> Pat,

> I've been using hcg, 1000iu every 3 days. I was using androgel,

> 10g, then tapered off and am now using just the hcg. It was working

> for the first 3 months, I was using Novarel, then I tried to get my

> insurance (Medco) to cover it and they sent the generic APP brand

> and it doesn't work for me. I've been using it until they can send

> the Novarel. It's like pulling teeth to work with Medco...hate it!

> I don't know how long I can safely continue the hcg, but I kinda

> hate to go back on the T since the hcg makes me feel pretty good and

> my T levels were actually higher with the hcg than the T. I went for

> a little over a week without any hcg or t, then started the generic

> (APP) brand when it finally arrived. After about the fifth day

> without any novarel, I felt like crap and the APP hcg hasn't fixed

> it. The only thing I get with it is a slight (very slight) energy

> increase for about a day. I'm hoping to get more Novarel in the

> next week, cuz it was making me feel pretty good. I don't know how

> long my doc will be willing to leave me on the hcg, but at the very

> least, I think (hope) he might be willing to let me take a reduced

> dose of both Androgel and Novarel as a long term solution. Don't

> know if my experience helps you at all since we are all different.

> -Dan

>

>

> > I'm secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment

> about four

> > months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was feeling

> great

> > for the first month but was having problems with the skin and

> patches

> > always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to Androgel

> and

> > to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance approvals

> and

> > for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was taking

> > Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still haven't

> had a

> > blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel for a week

> > and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt good

> again

> > (not great) but much better and my blood test came back with me in

> the

> > 750's so I thought that was great.

> >

> > After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing some

> research

> > on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too much. We

> only

> > wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the Ovidrel is

> > concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that

> medication

> > and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

> >

> > I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap again, I

> > restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling like

> crap,

> > I would even say worse than I did when I started all of this. I

> called

> > my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I'm on day 4

> with and

> > still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely irritable

> in a

> > brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every couple of

> hours.

> > My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come up but

> won't

> > stay there!

> >

> > I'm thinking that the Androgel isn't doing much and the

> Ovidrel (HCG)

> > was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I never felt

> good

> > on this medication before the HCG but I did on the Androderm is

> there

> > a big difference between the two medications and how they get

> through

> > the skin?

> >

> > I'm have another appointment with my doctor in a month and she

> wants

> > me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my levels are

> > after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it that long!

> >

> > If my numbers do come up low I'm thinking of switching to

> injectable

> > testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone Cypionate

> > (Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

> >

> > Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not) doesn't

> cover

> > it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp powder?

> > What is this? They don't have any information regarding the

> medication

> > and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

> >

> > The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90 days,

> from

> > what I'm reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give me 20

> doses

> > or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is this

> correct

> > or am I missing something????

> >

> > Being I'm secondary maybe it would be better to just go to the

> HCG? Is

> > there anyone here that just uses HCG for there hypogonadism? How

> much

> > do you use and how often?

> >

> > Thank you for all of your help,

> >

> > Pat

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

WOW I guess I should stay on Novarel then, I thought this stuff was supposed

to be controlled, you have to love the health care system/insurance system

no accountability. We have to be our own advocates in all of this or we get

screwed at every turn.

Phil, I picked up some DIM today to see if it will help out with some of the

E2 side affects, thanks for the information I'll keep everyone informed on

how it works.

[Guest guest]

I checked and Walgreens.com has if for $161.89 for 3mos I'm getting it a

little cheaper from medco with the needles for $130.00 for 3 mos so I'm

still doing a LITTLE better.

On 12/5/06, philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> Wal-Mart or Wal-Greens has Novarel for 1/3 of what you paided.

> Phil

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry you did not say or I did not read your getting a 90 days suppley.

Phil

Osborne <ozzmed@...> wrote:

WOW I guess I should stay on Novarel then, I thought this stuff was

supposed

to be controlled, you have to love the health care system/insurance system

no accountability. We have to be our own advocates in all of this or we get

screwed at every turn.

Phil, I picked up some DIM today to see if it will help out with some of the

E2 side affects, thanks for the information I'll keep everyone informed on

how it works.

[Guest guest]

Pat,

You can get Novarel from IVPCARE.COM for $45.00 (includes needles

and shipping, 10,000iu, 30 day supply). I must say they are pretty

good at it, you can get it the next day. Compare this with medco

that takes at least a week to get their stuff together. Medco

sucks, but with insurance it only costs me 4 bucks for a 30 day

supply. My insurance considers this a " specialty " drug, so they

will only cover it if filled through medco. Yesterday was the third

time my doc had to call in the rx and specifically state the name

brand Novarel, (they keep trying to fill it with the APP stuff). I

called today and they said it would be Novarel, but, I still have my

doubts. It should not be this difficult to get drugs from a

pharmacy. (Sorry, the whole situation really works a nerve!)

Anyway, I am doing the hcg subQ. It has been working just fine for

me this way (the Novarel does, not the APP). I can tell it works

because shortly after the shot, I get kind of a " feeling of well

being " (for lack of a better description). Plus, I have much more

energy and just feel better. With my needle phobia, I don't think I

could do it IM. I give my dad a T shot IM every 2 weeks, and I

cringe everytime. For that matter, I cringe every time I get a shot

with a little 30ga needle. It's all in my mind, but then, that's

what counts.

I switched from the Androgel to the hcg mainly because we were

trying to have another child. The doc felt that fertility is

increased by not using the T, so, I used both for about a week or

two and slowly tapered off the T and have been getting by with just

the hcg. I don't have nearly the energy that I did with the T, but

then I don't have the mood swings so much either, nor the

anxiousness/anxiety. The hcg kind of leveled things out for me, and

at this point I would be happy to stay on just the hcg. Although,

since being on the APP stuff for the past few weeks, I am sorely

tempted to use the T again but don't want to screw up the fertility

thing.

Also, when I was using both drugs, it was making me feel a little

hyper, I assume because I was starting to make my own T again. I

lowered the dose of Androgel to 2.5 grams and it was ok with the

hcg. I think that ultimately, I would do best with some T, maybe 5

grams and 250 iu of the hcg. I haven't tried lowering the hcg,

although using this worthless APP crap I suppose I'm not really

getting much hcg anyway. I feel chronic fatigue, my brain in in a

constant fog, my wife says I'm much more moody and depressed, and

sex in becoming difficult (don't think about it much, difficult to

get and maintain an erection). With the Novarel, I was pretty horny

all the time, especially the day of the shot. The fatigue and brain

fog were still there to some extent, just not nearly so bad as now.

So, that's been my experience, hope yours is better. But, if you're

dealing with medco, or their specialty drug dept., Accredo Nova

Factor, I wish you luck, cuz you'll need it. -Dan

> > > I'm secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment

> > about four

> > > months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was

feeling

> > great

> > > for the first month but was having problems with the skin and

> > patches

> > > always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to

Androgel

> > and

> > > to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance

approvals

> > and

> > > for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was

taking

> > > Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still haven't

> > had a

> > > blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel for a

week

> > > and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt good

> > again

> > > (not great) but much better and my blood test came back with

me in

> > the

> > > 750's so I thought that was great.

> > >

> > > After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing some

> > research

> > > on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too much. We

> > only

> > > wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the

Ovidrel is

> > > concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that

> > medication

> > > and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

> > >

> > > I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap

again, I

> > > restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling

like

> > crap,

> > > I would even say worse than I did when I started all of this. I

> > called

> > > my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I'm on day 4

> > with and

> > > still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely

irritable

> > in a

> > > brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every couple of

> > hours.

> > > My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come up but

> > won't

> > > stay there!

> > >

> > > I'm thinking that the Androgel isn't doing much and the

> > Ovidrel (HCG)

> > > was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I never

felt

> > good

> > > on this medication before the HCG but I did on the Androderm is

> > there

> > > a big difference between the two medications and how they get

> > through

> > > the skin?

> > >

> > > I'm have another appointment with my doctor in a month and she

> > wants

> > > me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my levels

are

> > > after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it that

long!

> > >

> > > If my numbers do come up low I'm thinking of switching to

> > injectable

> > > testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone

Cypionate

> > > (Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

> > >

> > > Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not) doesn't

> > cover

> > > it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp

powder?

> > > What is this? They don't have any information regarding the

> > medication

> > > and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

> > >

> > > The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90 days,

> > from

> > > what I'm reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give me

20

> > doses

> > > or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is this

> > correct

> > > or am I missing something????

> > >

> > > Being I'm secondary maybe it would be better to just go to the

> > HCG? Is

> > > there anyone here that just uses HCG for there hypogonadism?

How

> > much

> > > do you use and how often?

> > >

> > > Thank you for all of your help,

> > >

> > > Pat

[Guest guest]

Phil, Medco just sucks the big one! My doc doesn't like dealing

with them. My last doc didn't like them either, and neither do I.

There should be some law against this kind of stupidity...shouldn't

there???

Are you still doing low dose hcg and T? I still worry about how

long I can do the hcg without making myself primary. -Dan

> > I’m secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment

> about four

> > months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was feeling

> great

> > for the first month but was having problems with the skin and

> patches

> > always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to Androgel

> and

> > to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance

approvals

> and

> > for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was

taking

> > Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still haven’t

> had a

> > blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel for a

week

> > and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt good

> again

> > (not great) but much better and my blood test came back with me

in

> the

> > 750’s so I thought that was great.

> >

> > After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing some

> research

> > on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too much. We

> only

> > wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the Ovidrel

is

> > concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that

> medication

> > and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

> >

> > I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap again, I

> > restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling like

> crap,

> > I would even say worse than I did when I started all of this. I

> called

> > my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I’m on day 4

> with and

> > still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely irritable

> in a

> > brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every couple of

> hours.

> > My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come up but

> won’t

> > stay there!

> >

> > I’m thinking that the Androgel isn’t doing much and the

> Ovidrel (HCG)

> > was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I never

felt

> good

> > on this medication before the HCG but I did on the Androderm is

> there

> > a big difference between the two medications and how they get

> through

> > the skin?

> >

> > I’m have another appointment with my doctor in a month and she

> wants

> > me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my levels

are

> > after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it that

long!

> >

> > If my numbers do come up low I’m thinking of switching to

> injectable

> > testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone

Cypionate

> > (Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

> >

> > Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not)

doesn’t

> cover

> > it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp

powder?

> > What is this? They don’t have any information regarding the

> medication

> > and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

> >

> > The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90 days,

> from

> > what I’m reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give me

20

> doses

> > or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is this

> correct

> > or am I missing something????

> >

> > Being I’m secondary maybe it would be better to just go to the

> HCG? Is

> > there anyone here that just uses HCG for there hypogonadism? How

> much

> > do you use and how often?

> >

> > Thank you for all of your help,

> >

> > Pat

>

[Guest guest]

Yea Medco is something special alrigh!@#@$ I have been dealing with there

" specialty drug dept " and they are no help. I'm probably going to be doing

the same thing you are, my wife and I are also looking to have more kids

this is why I insisted on the HCG from my doc. But we have been having

problems trying to find someone who will work with " Male Factor " fertility

issues. Everything I read says if you are secondary there is a good chance

of just fixing the hormone issues and I should be good to go. Only problem

is everyone clinic we go to just wants to do IVF. I have been having big

problems trying to find a good doctor everyone that I get a referral to

isn't in my insurance, I finally found one and have an appointment on the

27th but he is 100 miles away. FYI I live 20 minutes out of NY city!! I

should have to drive two hours to see a doctor.

My wife and I have been looking at other fertility meds that they might want

to through in there and Medco is even more a joke. One of the drugs they

might want to use after a few months is FSH now when I sign onto Medco's

website to my account ( I get $3,000 for fertility meds) they show Gonal-f

with a co-pay of $60 and the plan pays $6478. I wonder who would be getting

the bill for the $3400??? They do have cheaper ones like Pergonal ttl cost

around $200 but you really need keep up on this stuff you you'll get

screwed. We had to call back three times between Medco, Cigna and our

company benefits center in order to get it straight what are benefits really

are.

We pay allot of money for this insurance 15K+ for my company and I and you

would think you would get better coverage.

Sry everyone I just needed to vent. It appears that the insurance Co's.

Don't look at this medical condition as something that needs to be covering.

Unless I use the (MORE EXPENSIVE) gels or patches they won't pay for any

other treatments even if its cheaper for them, I'm going to have to go to

out of pocket for all of this and it really pisses me off when I pay

thousands of dollars a year for insurance to get 0 satisfaction.

On 12/6/06, Dan <opusnall@...> wrote:

>

> Pat,

> You can get Novarel from IVPCARE.COM for $45.00 (includes needles

> and shipping, 10,000iu, 30 day supply). I must say they are pretty

> good at it, you can get it the next day. Compare this with medco

> that takes at least a week to get their stuff together. Medco

> sucks, but with insurance it only costs me 4 bucks for a 30 day

> supply. My insurance considers this a " specialty " drug, so they

> will only cover it if filled through medco. Yesterday was the third

> time my doc had to call in the rx and specifically state the name

> brand Novarel, (they keep trying to fill it with the APP stuff). I

> called today and they said it would be Novarel, but, I still have my

> doubts. It should not be this difficult to get drugs from a

> pharmacy. (Sorry, the whole situation really works a nerve!)

>

> Anyway, I am doing the hcg subQ. It has been working just fine for

> me this way (the Novarel does, not the APP). I can tell it works

> because shortly after the shot, I get kind of a " feeling of well

> being " (for lack of a better description). Plus, I have much more

> energy and just feel better. With my needle phobia, I don't think I

> could do it IM. I give my dad a T shot IM every 2 weeks, and I

> cringe everytime. For that matter, I cringe every time I get a shot

> with a little 30ga needle. It's all in my mind, but then, that's

> what counts.

>

> I switched from the Androgel to the hcg mainly because we were

> trying to have another child. The doc felt that fertility is

> increased by not using the T, so, I used both for about a week or

> two and slowly tapered off the T and have been getting by with just

> the hcg. I don't have nearly the energy that I did with the T, but

> then I don't have the mood swings so much either, nor the

> anxiousness/anxiety. The hcg kind of leveled things out for me, and

> at this point I would be happy to stay on just the hcg. Although,

> since being on the APP stuff for the past few weeks, I am sorely

> tempted to use the T again but don't want to screw up the fertility

> thing.

>

> Also, when I was using both drugs, it was making me feel a little

> hyper, I assume because I was starting to make my own T again. I

> lowered the dose of Androgel to 2.5 grams and it was ok with the

> hcg. I think that ultimately, I would do best with some T, maybe 5

> grams and 250 iu of the hcg. I haven't tried lowering the hcg,

> although using this worthless APP crap I suppose I'm not really

> getting much hcg anyway. I feel chronic fatigue, my brain in in a

> constant fog, my wife says I'm much more moody and depressed, and

> sex in becoming difficult (don't think about it much, difficult to

> get and maintain an erection). With the Novarel, I was pretty horny

> all the time, especially the day of the shot. The fatigue and brain

> fog were still there to some extent, just not nearly so bad as now.

>

> So, that's been my experience, hope yours is better. But, if you're

> dealing with medco, or their specialty drug dept., Accredo Nova

> Factor, I wish you luck, cuz you'll need it. -Dan

>

>

> > > > I'm secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment

> > > about four

> > > > months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was

> feeling

> > > great

> > > > for the first month but was having problems with the skin and

> > > patches

> > > > always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to

> Androgel

> > > and

> > > > to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance

> approvals

> > > and

> > > > for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was

> taking

> > > > Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still haven't

> > > had a

> > > > blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel for a

> week

> > > > and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt good

> > > again

> > > > (not great) but much better and my blood test came back with

> me in

> > > the

> > > > 750's so I thought that was great.

> > > >

> > > > After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing some

> > > research

> > > > on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too much. We

> > > only

> > > > wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the

> Ovidrel is

> > > > concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that

> > > medication

> > > > and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

> > > >

> > > > I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap

> again, I

> > > > restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling

> like

> > > crap,

> > > > I would even say worse than I did when I started all of this. I

> > > called

> > > > my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I'm on day 4

> > > with and

> > > > still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely

> irritable

> > > in a

> > > > brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every couple of

> > > hours.

> > > > My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come up but

> > > won't

> > > > stay there!

> > > >

> > > > I'm thinking that the Androgel isn't doing much and the

> > > Ovidrel (HCG)

> > > > was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I never

> felt

> > > good

> > > > on this medication before the HCG but I did on the Androderm is

> > > there

> > > > a big difference between the two medications and how they get

> > > through

> > > > the skin?

> > > >

> > > > I'm have another appointment with my doctor in a month and she

> > > wants

> > > > me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my levels

> are

> > > > after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it that

> long!

> > > >

> > > > If my numbers do come up low I'm thinking of switching to

> > > injectable

> > > > testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone

> Cypionate

> > > > (Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

> > > >

> > > > Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not) doesn't

> > > cover

> > > > it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp

> powder?

> > > > What is this? They don't have any information regarding the

> > > medication

> > > > and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

> > > >

> > > > The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90 days,

> > > from

> > > > what I'm reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give me

> 20

> > > doses

> > > > or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is this

> > > correct

> > > > or am I missing something????

> > > >

> > > > Being I'm secondary maybe it would be better to just go to the

> > > HCG? Is

> > > > there anyone here that just uses HCG for there hypogonadism?

> How

> > > much

> > > > do you use and how often?

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for all of your help,

> > > >

> > > > Pat

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

From what I under stand if your not doing more then 500 IU's a day your ok. I

do a 50mg. T shot every 3 days the 400 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between my

T shots. How much HCG are you doing.

Phil

Dan <opusnall@...> wrote:

Phil, Medco just sucks the big one! My doc doesn't like dealing

with them. My last doc didn't like them either, and neither do I.

There should be some law against this kind of stupidity...shouldn't

there???

Are you still doing low dose hcg and T? I still worry about how

long I can do the hcg without making myself primary. -Dan

> > I’m secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment

> about four

> > months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was feeling

> great

> > for the first month but was having problems with the skin and

> patches

> > always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to Androgel

> and

> > to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance

approvals

> and

> > for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was

taking

> > Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still haven’t

> had a

> > blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel for a

week

> > and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt good

> again

> > (not great) but much better and my blood test came back with me

in

> the

> > 750’s so I thought that was great.

> >

> > After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing some

> research

> > on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too much. We

> only

> > wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the Ovidrel

is

> > concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that

> medication

> > and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

> >

> > I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap again, I

> > restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling like

> crap,

> > I would even say worse than I did when I started all of this. I

> called

> > my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I’m on day 4

> with and

> > still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely irritable

> in a

> > brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every couple of

> hours.

> > My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come up but

> won’t

> > stay there!

> >

> > I’m thinking that the Androgel isn’t doing much and the

> Ovidrel (HCG)

> > was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I never

felt

> good

> > on this medication before the HCG but I did on the Androderm is

> there

> > a big difference between the two medications and how they get

> through

> > the skin?

> >

> > I’m have another appointment with my doctor in a month and she

> wants

> > me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my levels

are

> > after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it that

long!

> >

> > If my numbers do come up low I’m thinking of switching to

> injectable

> > testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone

Cypionate

> > (Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

> >

> > Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not)

doesn’t

> cover

> > it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp

powder?

> > What is this? They don’t have any information regarding the

> medication

> > and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

> >

> > The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90 days,

> from

> > what I’m reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give me

20

> doses

> > or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is this

> correct

> > or am I missing something????

> >

> > Being I’m secondary maybe it would be better to just go to the

> HCG? Is

> > there anyone here that just uses HCG for there hypogonadism? How

> much

> > do you use and how often?

> >

> > Thank you for all of your help,

> >

> > Pat

>

---------------------------------

Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question

on Answers.

[Guest guest]

I'm still doing 1000iu every third day. I suppose that equals out

to just under 500iu per day, not that it works that way. If I had

more needles I suppose I could just do the shot at a lesser amount

every day...ouch! Here's another thing...I dilute the stuff with the

right amount of water, and when I draw it into the needle, its right

on the money, so why do I end up short when I get to the last

shot?? The first bottle I did came out just right, the second one I

ended up not having enough for the 10th dose. So, I've been trying

to be extra careful and not get too much in there, even pulling the

plunger back so there isn't any left in the needle before I switch

to the smaller size. Hopefully that will solve it, but if not..it's

a mystery to me. Kinda like the lost sock in the dryer thing.

With 50mg of T and 400iu of hcg the two other days, I think that

would be too much for me. But then, it seems like you've always

needed a little more to feel good. Without the T I haven't had

anywhere near the problems with anxiety, the hcg seems to even

things out for me, although it doesn't make me feel quite as good as

the T, but I'm ok with the tradeoff for now. I have a doc appt next

month and depending on the the tests and what he thinks, we'll see

what happens. As long as I was happy with the hcg, he was ok with me

staying on it. I just worry about long term effects, since there

isn't much in the way of research on it being used this way. I

suspect a lowered dose of T and a lowered dose of hcg would probably

get me the best of both worlds, but, right now we're still looking

at fertility, so I haven't started the T again. -Dan

> > > I’m secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment

> > about four

> > > months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was

feeling

> > great

> > > for the first month but was having problems with the skin and

> > patches

> > > always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to

Androgel

> > and

> > > to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance

> approvals

> > and

> > > for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was

> taking

> > > Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still

haven’t

> > had a

> > > blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel for a

> week

> > > and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt

good

> > again

> > > (not great) but much better and my blood test came back with

me

> in

> > the

> > > 750’s so I thought that was great.

> > >

> > > After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing some

> > research

> > > on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too much.

We

> > only

> > > wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the

Ovidrel

> is

> > > concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that

> > medication

> > > and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

> > >

> > > I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap

again, I

> > > restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling

like

> > crap,

> > > I would even say worse than I did when I started all of this.

I

> > called

> > > my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I’m on day 4

> > with and

> > > still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely

irritable

> > in a

> > > brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every couple

of

> > hours.

> > > My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come up

but

> > won’t

> > > stay there!

> > >

> > > I’m thinking that the Androgel isn’t doing much and the

> > Ovidrel (HCG)

> > > was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I never

> felt

> > good

> > > on this medication before the HCG but I did on the Androderm

is

> > there

> > > a big difference between the two medications and how they get

> > through

> > > the skin?

> > >

> > > I’m have another appointment with my doctor in a month and

she

> > wants

> > > me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my levels

> are

> > > after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it that

> long!

> > >

> > > If my numbers do come up low I’m thinking of switching to

> > injectable

> > > testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone

> Cypionate

> > > (Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

> > >

> > > Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not)

> doesn’t

> > cover

> > > it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp

> powder?

> > > What is this? They don’t have any information regarding the

> > medication

> > > and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

> > >

> > > The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90

days,

> > from

> > > what I’m reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give

me

> 20

> > doses

> > > or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is this

> > correct

> > > or am I missing something????

> > >

> > > Being I’m secondary maybe it would be better to just go to

the

> > HCG? Is

> > > there anyone here that just uses HCG for there hypogonadism?

How

> > much

> > > do you use and how often?

> > >

> > > Thank you for all of your help,

> > >

> > > Pat

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask

your question on Answers.

>

>

[Guest guest]

One of the great things about this group is that it's a great place

to vent. Sometimes it helps to know there are other guys out there

dealing with the same crap. We don't want to do the IVF thing and

our insurance doesn't cover fertility. Finding a doc that deals

with this stuff in almost impossible, and then, of course, they

aren't covered by insurance. It almost becomes a full time job just

dealing with all involved. You certainly get the run-around and

it's very frustrating! Again, I would suggest going to IVPCARE.com

and see what their prices are. They seem to specialize in fertility

drugs and they're way easier to deal with than medco. Anyway I've

had good luck with them in the past. -Dan

> > > > > I'm secondary hypogonad and just started on treatment

> > > > about four

> > > > > months ago, I first started using Androderm (5g) and was

> > feeling

> > > > great

> > > > > for the first month but was having problems with the skin

and

> > > > patches

> > > > > always falling off so I asked my doctor to switch me to

> > Androgel

> > > > and

> > > > > to prescribe me HCG. It took two weeks for the insurance

> > approvals

> > > > and

> > > > > for the Ovidrel (HCG) to come in and during this time I was

> > taking

> > > > > Adrogel (5g) and was feeling like crap again, I still

haven't

> > > > had a

> > > > > blood test done so my doctor told me to take the Ovidrel

for a

> > week

> > > > > and get a blood test. After one week on the Ovidrel I felt

good

> > > > again

> > > > > (not great) but much better and my blood test came back

with

> > me in

> > > > the

> > > > > 750's so I thought that was great.

> > > > >

> > > > > After a few weeks on this (and feeling good) I was doing

some

> > > > research

> > > > > on the Ovidrel and found out that I was taking way too

much. We

> > > > only

> > > > > wanted to put me on a maintenance dose of 250IU HCG the

> > Ovidrel is

> > > > > concentrated and the 250ug=6500IU of HCG so we stopped that

> > > > medication

> > > > > and switched to me Novarel 250IU 250ml.

> > > > >

> > > > > I was off the HCG for about a week and feeling like crap

> > again, I

> > > > > restarted the Novarel about a week ago and am still feeling

> > like

> > > > crap,

> > > > > I would even say worse than I did when I started all of

this. I

> > > > called

> > > > > my doctor and she raised my Androgel to 10g and I'm on day

4

> > > > with and

> > > > > still not feeling good. I spent the weekend completely

> > irritable

> > > > in a

> > > > > brain fog feeling drained with my skin flushing every

couple of

> > > > hours.

> > > > > My ED issues have gotten worse than before, it will come

up but

> > > > won't

> > > > > stay there!

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm thinking that the Androgel isn't doing much and the

> > > > Ovidrel (HCG)

> > > > > was keeping my numbers up and making me feel better, I

never

> > felt

> > > > good

> > > > > on this medication before the HCG but I did on the

Androderm is

> > > > there

> > > > > a big difference between the two medications and how they

get

> > > > through

> > > > > the skin?

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm have another appointment with my doctor in a month and

she

> > > > wants

> > > > > me to get another blood test in two weeks to see how my

levels

> > are

> > > > > after starting the 10g of Androgel I hope I can make it

that

> > long!

> > > > >

> > > > > If my numbers do come up low I'm thinking of switching to

> > > > injectable

> > > > > testosterone. From what I have been reading Testosterone

> > Cypionate

> > > > > (Depo-T) 100mg once a week to start, would this be correct?

> > > > >

> > > > > Only problem is my insurance (MEDCO (believe it or not)

doesn't

> > > > cover

> > > > > it or its generic version, the only thing they have is Cyp

> > powder?

> > > > > What is this? They don't have any information regarding the

> > > > medication

> > > > > and how you would re-constitute it, does anyone use this?

> > > > >

> > > > > The other issue is it would still be a $100 co pay for 90

days,

> > > > from

> > > > > what I'm reading a vial of Depo-T 200mg/mL 10mL would give

me

> > 20

> > > > doses

> > > > > or 150 days at Ekards price of $110 for the generic, is

this

> > > > correct

> > > > > or am I missing something????

> > > > >

> > > > > Being I'm secondary maybe it would be better to just go to

the

> > > > HCG? Is

> > > > > there anyone here that just uses HCG for there

hypogonadism?

> > How

> > > > much

> > > > > do you use and how often?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you for all of your help,

> > > > >

> > > > > Pat

> >