Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Dear : Are you in the USA? I do not recall testim. If I am correct it is a gel? Thanks V ez PHD/Psychology <ecgnyc@...> wrote: Ok, i've been to a couple of doctors and they give me conflicting advise. I tested 360 in testosterone with reference range of 200-1000. I'm in my mid-30's. Is 360 low? One doctor said since i'm above 200, i'm fine. Another doctor said that a man my age should be in the 500-600 range. Who is right? My second doctor prescribed me Testim. i haven't taken it yet b/c i'm scared i'll grow dependent on it. Does one grow dependent on T replacement? The doctor said that if you " cycle " --- i.e., three months on, three months off --- you body doesn't become dependent and stop making its own testosterone. Any Help would be appreciated!!! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 The first Dr. is wrong and the second one is half right you don't cycle TRT if you go on it it is for life. Your T levels are way to low 360 is normal for a man over 100 yrs of age. Yes do the Testim and when you start feeling better you will not want to stop it. Low T is a bad thing if not treated bone loss, heart problems, loss of sex life, feeling of depression, muscle loss and much more. Phil <ecgnyc@...> wrote: Ok, i've been to a couple of doctors and they give me conflicting advise. I tested 360 in testosterone with reference range of 200-1000. I'm in my mid-30's. Is 360 low? One doctor said since i'm above 200, i'm fine. Another doctor said that a man my age should be in the 500-600 range. Who is right? My second doctor prescribed me Testim. i haven't taken it yet b/c i'm scared i'll grow dependent on it. Does one grow dependent on T replacement? The doctor said that if you " cycle " --- i.e., three months on, three months off --- you body doesn't become dependent and stop making its own testosterone. Any Help would be appreciated!!! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 > > Ok, i've been to a couple of doctors and they give me conflicting advise. I tested 360 in > testosterone with reference range of 200-1000. I'm in my mid- 30's. Is 360 low? One doctor > said since i'm above 200, i'm fine. Another doctor said that a man my age should be in the > 500-600 range. Who is right? My second doctor prescribed me Testim. i haven't taken it yet > b/c i'm scared i'll grow dependent on it. Does one grow dependent on T replacement? The > doctor said that if you " cycle " --- i.e., three months on, three months off --- you body > doesn't become dependent and stop making its own testosterone. Any Help would be > appreciated!!! Thanks. > TRT is not cycled. You stay on a dose that puts your blood levels closer to 1000 than 200. Also, once you go on Testim, another blood test should be drawn to determine T and E levels. I am glad that a doctor is willing to prescribe for you. But it is very important for him to get it right. I do not consider needing T a dependency, your levels have dropped to unhealthy levels. It is beyond me how doctors will not treat this subject the same way they do diabetes and insulin. Insulin is not cycled and doses are adjusted to ensure optimum health of the patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Prior to starting Testim you should try to understand why you have Low T. Did you ever take any medications that altered your hormones? Did you get other tests to see if you have testicular failure or a pituatory gland issue. Your concern of becoming dependant on TRT is a valid one. You should see an Endocronologist to get a full work up done on all your hormones and go from there. just a thought. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: The first Dr. is wrong and the second one is half right you don't cycle TRT if you go on it it is for life. Your T levels are way to low 360 is normal for a man over 100 yrs of age. Yes do the Testim and when you start feeling better you will not want to stop it. Low T is a bad thing if not treated bone loss, heart problems, loss of sex life, feeling of depression, muscle loss and much more. Phil <ecgnyc@...> wrote: Ok, i've been to a couple of doctors and they give me conflicting advise. I tested 360 in testosterone with reference range of 200-1000. I'm in my mid-30's. Is 360 low? One doctor said since i'm above 200, i'm fine. Another doctor said that a man my age should be in the 500-600 range. Who is right? My second doctor prescribed me Testim. i haven't taken it yet b/c i'm scared i'll grow dependent on it. Does one grow dependent on T replacement? The doctor said that if you " cycle " --- i.e., three months on, three months off --- you body doesn't become dependent and stop making its own testosterone. Any Help would be appreciated!!! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Yes, I am in the USA (NYC). Testim is a new T gel, similar to Androgel. I believe it is relatively new on the market, and studies show it is 30% more effective than Androgel. > Ok, i've been to a couple of doctors and they give me conflicting advise. I tested 360 in > testosterone with reference range of 200-1000. I'm in my mid- 30's. Is 360 low? One doctor > said since i'm above 200, i'm fine. Another doctor said that a man my age should be in the > 500-600 range. Who is right? My second doctor prescribed me Testim. i haven't taken it yet > b/c i'm scared i'll grow dependent on it. Does one grow dependent on T replacement? The > doctor said that if you " cycle " --- i.e., three months on, three months off --- you body > doesn't become dependent and stop making its own testosterone. Any Help would be > appreciated!!! Thanks. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 That's frustrating -- doctors shouldn't say i'm in the " normal " range (200-1000) when 360 is too low for a man my age (mid 30's). So, I think I'm going to go to an endocrinologist to do a full blood workup before starting T replacement, especially if it is something you do for life. Other symptoms I've had is chronic erectile dysfunction since as far back as I can remember, depression as far back as I can remember --- I have normal secondary characteristics (i.e., deep voice, beard growth, etc.) but I notice I am a " hard gainer " in the gym (i'm lean/fit, but it always is hard for me to gain muscle mass -- all my friends gain it alot easier). One top urologists (Mulhall in NYC) told me that it is very very rare to have ED due to low testosterone. How low is too low. He said 360 is normal and sufficient for proper erectile dysfunction. Anyone on this support group disagree with him? i.e., Did anyone in this group have ED with a T level around 300-400, and when they finally took T replacement, their ED improved dramatically? I'm hoping T replacement will be the " magic bullet " -- fuhk, i hope so, having ED sucks. Thanks for all the responses! peace, > Ok, i've been to a couple of doctors and they give me conflicting advise. I tested 360 in > testosterone with reference range of 200-1000. I'm in my mid-30's. Is 360 low? One doctor > said since i'm above 200, i'm fine. Another doctor said that a man my age should be in the > 500-600 range. Who is right? My second doctor prescribed me Testim. i haven't taken it yet > b/c i'm scared i'll grow dependent on it. Does one grow dependent on T replacement? The > doctor said that if you " cycle " --- i.e., three months on, three months off --- you body > doesn't become dependent and stop making its own testosterone. Any Help would be > appreciated!!! Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Hi , I am not sure seeing an Endo is the best bet for you I have seen 7 in the last 22 yrs. and not one was up on Low T. I have talked to men on TRT that went to see them they were taken off all T meds for months to redo the blood work. Some there test came back lower then yours and the Endo told him he was in the normal range his T levels were normal for a man over 100 yrs. old. Go to the files section and read Finding a Male Hormone Dr. Then go to this site and click on Find a Dr. and start calling some Dr.'s singed up on this site and are not up on low T. So you need to call and ask a lot of questions like how many men does the Dr. treat for low T and does he check for high Estradiol if so does he use Arimidex to get it down and ask if the Dr. uses HCG to treat Secondary low T. As for bad ED yes I had it for over 10 yrs. and I could not reach an orgasm. I was on TRT for 12 yrs. when this started in my 50's. When I joined here the first thing I read was about high Estrdiol " E2 " in men. Had it tested and took Arimidex to get it down and got my sex life back like I was in my 20's again. For the best TRT go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG Update the links are at the bottom of the site. If you can drive or fly to MI then see the best Dr. . Here is the first link I read when I joined here. http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-130.html This link has T levels by age. http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html Phil <ecgnyc@...> wrote: That's frustrating -- doctors shouldn't say i'm in the " normal " range (200-1000) when 360 is too low for a man my age (mid 30's). So, I think I'm going to go to an endocrinologist to do a full blood workup before starting T replacement, especially if it is something you do for life. Other symptoms I've had is chronic erectile dysfunction since as far back as I can remember, depression as far back as I can remember --- I have normal secondary characteristics (i.e., deep voice, beard growth, etc.) but I notice I am a " hard gainer " in the gym (i'm lean/fit, but it always is hard for me to gain muscle mass -- all my friends gain it alot easier). One top urologists (Mulhall in NYC) told me that it is very very rare to have ED due to low testosterone. How low is too low. He said 360 is normal and sufficient for proper erectile dysfunction. Anyone on this support group disagree with him? i.e., Did anyone in this group have ED with a T level around 300-400, and when they finally took T replacement, their ED improved dramatically? I'm hoping T replacement will be the " magic bullet " -- fuhk, i hope so, having ED sucks. Thanks for all the responses! peace, > Ok, i've been to a couple of doctors and they give me conflicting advise. I tested 360 in > testosterone with reference range of 200-1000. I'm in my mid-30's. Is 360 low? One doctor > said since i'm above 200, i'm fine. Another doctor said that a man my age should be in the > 500-600 range. Who is right? My second doctor prescribed me Testim. i haven't taken it yet > b/c i'm scared i'll grow dependent on it. Does one grow dependent on T replacement? The > doctor said that if you " cycle " --- i.e., three months on, three months off --- you body > doesn't become dependent and stop making its own testosterone. Any Help would be > appreciated!!! Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 > One top urologists (Mulhall in NYC) told me that it is very very > rare to have ED due to low testosterone. How low is too low. He > said 360 is normal and sufficient for proper erectile dysfunction. > Anyone on this support group disagree with him? i.e., Did anyone > in this group have ED with a T level around 300-400, and when they > finally took T replacement, their ED improved dramatically? > > I'm hoping T replacement will be the " magic bullet " -- fuhk, i hope > so, having ED sucks. > > Thanks for all the responses! > peace, > This is not what you want to hear but a number of studies I have seen indicate that raising testosterone levels rarely cures erectile dysfunction. I am secondary hypogonadic with a testosterone level that measures between 125 and 259. I have no problem with getting or maintaining an erection except when tired or cold which is an infrequent occurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 > > That's frustrating -- doctors shouldn't say i'm in the " normal " > range (200-1000) when 360 is too low for a man my age (mid 30's). > > So, I think I'm going to go to an endocrinologist to do a full blood > workup before starting T replacement, especially if it is something > you do for life. > I would look for someone who is currently treating alot of men for hypogonadism rather than focusing on their specialty. A urologist is sometimes better than an endocrinologist. > Other symptoms I've had is chronic erectile dysfunction since as far > back as I can remember, depression as far back as I can remember --- > I have normal secondary characteristics (i.e., deep voice, beard > growth, etc.) but I notice I am a " hard gainer " in the gym (i'm > lean/fit, but it always is hard for me to gain muscle mass -- all my > friends gain it alot easier). > You may be correct about the " hard gainer " thing but I wouldn't over-emphasize it. Some docs might think you are looking for a backdoor roid cycle or are seeking treatment for cosmetic reasons. > One top urologists (Mulhall in NYC) told me that it is very very > rare to have ED due to low testosterone. How low is too low. He > said 360 is normal and sufficient for proper erectile dysfunction. > Anyone on this support group disagree with him? i.e., Did anyone > in this group have ED with a T level around 300-400, and when they > finally took T replacement, their ED improved dramatically? > Definitions are everything here. Technically, he's probably right. ED is usually caused by damage to the nerves or circulatory system and testosterone won't help that too much. You need to sort out if it's really ed or simply poor libido (desire). If your libido is low, you'll have poor erections. Libido is needed to kick off good erections. When my testosterone was low (pre-treatment > 400ng/dl), I had very short-lived erections of poor quality. Viagra didn't really change that. Once my testosterone level was up, my libido returned and I didn't need any viagra or other ed treatment. In other words, what I might have mistaken for ed was really impaired libido. I think your doc is probably correct that only low levels of testosterone are necessary to prevent ED. The level of testosterone necessary for proper libido may be much higher. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 > > This is not what you want to hear but a number of studies I have > seen indicate that raising testosterone levels rarely cures > erectile dysfunction. I am secondary hypogonadic with a > testosterone level that measures between 125 and 259. I have > no problem with getting or maintaining an erection except > when tired or cold which is an infrequent occurance. > Everyone is different but I would have to disagree with this. My T levels were around 150 (RR: 450-1080) and I had no libido or erectile function. After being on Androgel for a month my T levels got up into the high normal range and man what a remarkable difference. My libido was amazing and my erections were like I was 16 again. Now I'm not saying that this happens with everyone and many hormones have to be in balance to get this kind of response but it was remarkable how just treating my T levels improved my life. I will agree that anyone considering TRT needs to first figure out if they can determine why they have low T since treating directly the known cause, if possible, is the best treatment for low TRT. Before I went on TRT I had multiple rounds of bloodwork, an MRI of my pituitary and a few other tests to rule out other medical issues. The problem is that with a testosteorne level within lab reference ranges it's hard to get a doctor, even an endocrinologist, to order an MRI or many other tests for hypogonadism. Some doctors will just offer short term TRT as a test to see if it improves symptoms but, from what I've seen, would probably be unwilling to perscirbe long term TRT. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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