Re: subQ injection lab results

[Guest guest]

Where exactly are you injecting? Do you have any reaction at the

injection site?

[Guest guest]

,

Your labs look good your Free T is up but I need to tell you don't worry about

it labs can't give an acurite result on Free T and Free % of T even harder. All

the Frees are (calc.). Read this cut and paste from this link.

http://tinyurl.com/587upx

================================

Total T represents all the Testosterone in the blood, while bioavailable T

represents the non SHBG bound Testosterone. There are other proteins in the

blood that bind Testosterone, too, but their binding is rather weak, so this T

is bioavailable and these proteins can still enter the cells to produce and

effect all the things we're interested in.

As I said, bioavailable T represents the Testosterone that is not SHBG bound,

while free T represents the Testosterone that's not bound to any blood proteins

at all. It's tricky, I know, but I hope that it's now evident that although only

about 2% of the T in blood is technically considered free T, there is a larger

percentage of T (about 40% or so) that is bioavailable because it's only weakly

bound to non SHBG blood proteins.

I'm taking you through this complex path for good reason. When trying to

increase T levels in the body, one must attempt to not only increase total T.

More importantly, one must attempt to increase bioavailable T. If you increase

total T, but you increase SHBG to a larger extent, they you will actually have

less bioavailable T for muscle building purposes!

================================

One thing your Free's tell me is your SHBG must be low and if this is so you can

lower your Estradiol below 20 but not lower then 15. The best test for

Testosterone is at Quest

Testosterone, Free, Bioavailable and Total LC/MS/MS Code #14966.

It's the Bio that you need to go by there is a lot error in Free T tests. But

they all have a purpose the following is a reply by Dr. marianco.

================================

Thread: Low Free Testosterone View Single Post

#12 (permalink) 09-17-2006, 03:59 PM

marianco

Doctor of Medicine Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Monterey, California, USA. See Profile for contact info.

Posts: 751

Rep Power: 3

Re: Free Testosterone as a measure

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1cc

Would it be better to use Bioavailable Testosterone, since this is calculated

taking Albumin and SHBG into account, or does it also serve no purpose?

Bioavailable Testosterone (Free plus Albumin bound testosterone) is useful to

obtain to help interpret what is happening.

Free testosterone is useful to obtain (particularly if it is accurate) to help

interpret what is happening.

They do have a purpose - in interpretation of what balances or imbalances of

other factors are occurring.

When it comes to the determining the dose of testosterone, I still think total

testosterone is the single best and simplest measure.

For example,

Suppose a person has a total testosterone of 800 ng/dl. This is a level at the

high end of the reference range (300-1000 ng/dl), and is high even for young

adult men. Suppose this person has the symptoms associated with hypogonadism -

low libido, lack of energy, concentration and memory problems, anxiety or

depression, etc.

Should this person receive testosterone supplementation?

I would say clearly " no " . The total testosterone is already good. Most probably

other factors are contributing to the symptoms.

I would look for other neurotransmitter/hormone/cytokine imbalances that are

causing his problem. These are far more likely to be the problem than having a

low testosterone level. The common suspects would be hypothyroidism, suboptimal

adrenal function, and depressive/anxiety conditions. These and other problems

that can cause similar symptoms to hypogonadism.

__________________

Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will

change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice,

does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not

create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical

advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: justinjune65 <justinjune65@...>

> Subject: subQ injection lab results

>

> Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 8:48 PM

> I posted last week that I was taking subcutaneous T

> injections 3x a

> week for a of almost 200mg test cyp / week.

>

> I got my lab results today and I thought I would share

> them.

>

> T3 13 (in range reference, 11-32 ng/dL)

>

> Estradiol 20 (in range, reference <= 29 pg/mL)

>

> DHEA 462 (high, reference 45-345 mcg/dL)

>

> Insulin 7 (in range, reference < 17 uIU/mL)

>

> T-4, Free 1.0 (in range, reference 0.8-1.8 ng/dL)

>

> T-3, Free 383 (in range, reference 230-420 ng/dL)

>

> Testosterone, Total 613 (in range, reference 250-1100

> ng/dL)

>

> Testosterone, Free % 2.94 (high, reference 1.5-220 %)

>

> Testosterone, Free 180.2 (high, reference 35.0-155.0 pg/mL)

>

> Hemoglobin A1c % of total Hgb 6.2 (high, reference <

> 6/0 %)

>

> The notes the doctor made were my insulin went down

> (great), DHEA was

> probably high because I took the 25mg shortly before

> testing so it's

> probably OK. Hemoglobin is also high, but going down since

> last labs.

>

> Estradiol is within range but the doctor would prefer to

> see it lower

> so I'm switching from chrysin to Arimidex 0.5mg

> 2x/week.

>

> Testosterone is in the mid-range, but the free T is high so

> we'll see

> what happens next testing.

>

> I'm also taking cortef 5mg 2-3x / day and a supplement

> called

> Serenagan for adrenal fatigue.

>

> Also Vitamin D and Melatonin and progesterone.

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I inject 0.3ml into the fatty layer on my abdomen using a BD ultra-fine 8mm 3iG

insulin syringe. I do this 3 times a week. I have never had any reaction or

problem. It's 100% painless. The only inconvenience is it takes several minutes

to draw the oil into the syringe through the tiny needle. I much prefer it to IM

injections. It's much less intimating.

________________________________

From: hedgesonic <no_reply >

Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:11:33 AM

Subject: Re: subQ injection lab results

Where exactly are you injecting? Do you have any reaction at the

injection site?

[Guest guest]

The doctor said the free T should actually go down as my TRT progresses and as

protein goes up or something like that. I didn't quite understand, but it

sounded like as things get more balanced it should take care of itself. Every

time I go for lab work, my numbers are slowly getting progressively better.

I'm glad that I've been switched from chrysin to Arimidex. From what I've heard

and read, chrysin is fairly ineffective in the body. That was the only thing I

thought questionable, so now I am very pleased.

________________________________

From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:22:19 AM

Subject: Re: subQ injection lab results

,

Your labs look good your Free T is up but I need to tell you don't worry about

it labs can't give an acurite result on Free T and Free % of T even harder. All

the Frees are (calc.). Read this cut and paste from this link.

http://tinyurl. com/587upx

============ ========= ========= ==

Total T represents all the Testosterone in the blood, while bioavailable T

represents the non SHBG bound Testosterone. There are other proteins in the

blood that bind Testosterone, too, but their binding is rather weak, so this T

is bioavailable and these proteins can still enter the cells to produce and

effect all the things we're interested in.

As I said, bioavailable T represents the Testosterone that is not SHBG bound,

while free T represents the Testosterone that's not bound to any blood proteins

at all. It's tricky, I know, but I hope that it's now evident that although only

about 2% of the T in blood is technically considered free T, there is a larger

percentage of T (about 40% or so) that is bioavailable because it's only weakly

bound to non SHBG blood proteins.

I'm taking you through this complex path for good reason. When trying to

increase T levels in the body, one must attempt to not only increase total T.

More importantly, one must attempt to increase bioavailable T. If you increase

total T, but you increase SHBG to a larger extent, they you will actually have

less bioavailable T for muscle building purposes!

============ ========= ========= ==

One thing your Free's tell me is your SHBG must be low and if this is so you can

lower your Estradiol below 20 but not lower then 15. The best test for

Testosterone is at Quest

Testosterone, Free, Bioavailable and Total LC/MS/MS Code #14966.

It's the Bio that you need to go by there is a lot error in Free T tests. But

they all have a purpose the following is a reply by Dr. marianco.

============ ========= ========= ==

Thread: Low Free Testosterone View Single Post

#12 (permalink) 09-17-2006, 03:59 PM

marianco

Doctor of Medicine Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Monterey, California, USA. See Profile for contact info.

Posts: 751

Rep Power: 3

Re: Free Testosterone as a measure

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1cc

Would it be better to use Bioavailable Testosterone, since this is calculated

taking Albumin and SHBG into account, or does it also serve no purpose?

Bioavailable Testosterone (Free plus Albumin bound testosterone) is useful to

obtain to help interpret what is happening.

Free testosterone is useful to obtain (particularly if it is accurate) to help

interpret what is happening.

They do have a purpose - in interpretation of what balances or imbalances of

other factors are occurring.

When it comes to the determining the dose of testosterone, I still think total

testosterone is the single best and simplest measure.

For example,

Suppose a person has a total testosterone of 800 ng/dl. This is a level at the

high end of the reference range (300-1000 ng/dl), and is high even for young

adult men. Suppose this person has the symptoms associated with hypogonadism -

low libido, lack of energy, concentration and memory problems, anxiety or

depression, etc.

Should this person receive testosterone supplementation?

I would say clearly " no " . The total testosterone is already good. Most probably

other factors are contributing to the symptoms.

I would look for other neurotransmitter/ hormone/cytokine imbalances that are

causing his problem. These are far more likely to be the problem than having a

low testosterone level. The common suspects would be hypothyroidism, suboptimal

adrenal function, and depressive/anxiety conditions. These and other problems

that can cause similar symptoms to hypogonadism.

____________ ______

Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will

change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice,

does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not

create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical

advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: justinjune65 <justinjune65>

> Subject: subQ injection lab results

>

> Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 8:48 PM

> I posted last week that I was taking subcutaneous T

> injections 3x a

> week for a of almost 200mg test cyp / week.

>

> I got my lab results today and I thought I would share

> them.

>

> T3 13 (in range reference, 11-32 ng/dL)

>

> Estradiol 20 (in range, reference <= 29 pg/mL)

>

> DHEA 462 (high, reference 45-345 mcg/dL)

>

> Insulin 7 (in range, reference < 17 uIU/mL)

>

> T-4, Free 1.0 (in range, reference 0.8-1.8 ng/dL)

>

> T-3, Free 383 (in range, reference 230-420 ng/dL)

>

> Testosterone, Total 613 (in range, reference 250-1100

> ng/dL)

>

> Testosterone, Free % 2.94 (high, reference 1.5-220 %)

>

> Testosterone, Free 180.2 (high, reference 35.0-155.0 pg/mL)

>

> Hemoglobin A1c % of total Hgb 6.2 (high, reference <

> 6/0 %)

>

> The notes the doctor made were my insulin went down

> (great), DHEA was

> probably high because I took the 25mg shortly before

> testing so it's

> probably OK. Hemoglobin is also high, but going down since

> last labs.

>

> Estradiol is within range but the doctor would prefer to

> see it lower

> so I'm switching from chrysin to Arimidex 0.5mg

> 2x/week.

>

> Testosterone is in the mid-range, but the free T is high so

> we'll see

> what happens next testing.

>

> I'm also taking cortef 5mg 2-3x / day and a supplement

> called

> Serenagan for adrenal fatigue.

>

> Also Vitamin D and Melatonin and progesterone.

>

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just be careful on .5mgs 2x's a week if your not very high on E2 your going to

come down very fast. If your levels are not above say 45 pg/ml .5mgs will bring

you down dam fast. I have seen men do this and go down so fast they missed the

zone of having there involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM

(Rapid Eye Movement) sleep come back.

Most do .25mgs every 3 days and come down slower.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: justinjune65 <justinjune65>

> > Subject: subQ injection lab results

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 8:48 PM

> > I posted last week that I was taking subcutaneous T

> > injections 3x a

> > week for a of almost 200mg test cyp / week.

> >

> > I got my lab results today and I thought I would share

> > them.

> >

> > T3 13 (in range reference, 11-32 ng/dL)

> >

> > Estradiol 20 (in range, reference <= 29 pg/mL)

> >

> > DHEA 462 (high, reference 45-345 mcg/dL)

> >

> > Insulin 7 (in range, reference < 17 uIU/mL)

> >

> > T-4, Free 1.0 (in range, reference 0.8-1.8 ng/dL)

> >

> > T-3, Free 383 (in range, reference 230-420 ng/dL)

> >

> > Testosterone, Total 613 (in range, reference 250-1100

> > ng/dL)

> >

> > Testosterone, Free % 2.94 (high, reference 1.5-220 %)

> >

> > Testosterone, Free 180.2 (high, reference 35.0-155.0

> pg/mL)

> >

> > Hemoglobin A1c % of total Hgb 6.2 (high, reference

> <

> > 6/0 %)

> >

> > The notes the doctor made were my insulin went down

> > (great), DHEA was

> > probably high because I took the 25mg shortly before

> > testing so it's

> > probably OK. Hemoglobin is also high, but going down

> since

> > last labs.

> >

> > Estradiol is within range but the doctor would prefer

> to

> > see it lower

> > so I'm switching from chrysin to Arimidex 0.5mg

> > 2x/week.

> >

> > Testosterone is in the mid-range, but the free T is

> high so

> > we'll see

> > what happens next testing.

> >

> > I'm also taking cortef 5mg 2-3x / day and a

> supplement

> > called

> > Serenagan for adrenal fatigue.

> >

> > Also Vitamin D and Melatonin and progesterone.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I thought the dosage seemed sort of high. My Estradiol is only 20 pg/mL. I

wonder why I was prescribed so much.

________________________________

From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:24:45 PM

Subject: Re: subQ injection lab results

Just be careful on .5mgs 2x's a week if your not very high on E2 your going to

come down very fast. If your levels are not above say 45 pg/ml .5mgs will bring

you down dam fast. I have seen men do this and go down so fast they missed the

zone of having there involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM

(Rapid Eye Movement) sleep come back.

Most do .25mgs every 3 days and come down slower.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: justinjune65 <justinjune65>

> > Subject: subQ injection lab results

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 8:48 PM

> > I posted last week that I was taking subcutaneous T

> > injections 3x a

> > week for a of almost 200mg test cyp / week.

> >

> > I got my lab results today and I thought I would share

> > them.

> >

> > T3 13 (in range reference, 11-32 ng/dL)

> >

> > Estradiol 20 (in range, reference <= 29 pg/mL)

> >

> > DHEA 462 (high, reference 45-345 mcg/dL)

> >

> > Insulin 7 (in range, reference < 17 uIU/mL)

> >

> > T-4, Free 1.0 (in range, reference 0.8-1.8 ng/dL)

> >

> > T-3, Free 383 (in range, reference 230-420 ng/dL)

> >

> > Testosterone, Total 613 (in range, reference 250-1100

> > ng/dL)

> >

> > Testosterone, Free % 2.94 (high, reference 1.5-220 %)

> >

> > Testosterone, Free 180.2 (high, reference 35.0-155.0

> pg/mL)

> >

> > Hemoglobin A1c % of total Hgb 6.2 (high, reference

> <

> > 6/0 %)

> >

> > The notes the doctor made were my insulin went down

> > (great), DHEA was

> > probably high because I took the 25mg shortly before

> > testing so it's

> > probably OK. Hemoglobin is also high, but going down

> since

> > last labs.

> >

> > Estradiol is within range but the doctor would prefer

> to

> > see it lower

> > so I'm switching from chrysin to Arimidex 0.5mg

> > 2x/week.

> >

> > Testosterone is in the mid-range, but the free T is

> high so

> > we'll see

> > what happens next testing.

> >

> > I'm also taking cortef 5mg 2-3x / day and a

> supplement

> > called

> > Serenagan for adrenal fatigue.

> >

> > Also Vitamin D and Melatonin and progesterone.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Maybe the other stuff was working with levels this low if your take Arimidex

your going to go down to low. If you get morning wood try .25 mgs 2x's a week

but you your wood stops stop taking it your going down to low.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > From: justinjune65 <justinjune65@

> >

> > > Subject: subQ injection lab

> results

> > >

> > > Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 8:48 PM

> > > I posted last week that I was taking subcutaneous

> T

> > > injections 3x a

> > > week for a of almost 200mg test cyp / week.

> > >

> > > I got my lab results today and I thought I would

> share

> > > them.

> > >

> > > T3 13 (in range reference, 11-32 ng/dL)

> > >

> > > Estradiol 20 (in range, reference <= 29 pg/mL)

> > >

> > > DHEA 462 (high, reference 45-345 mcg/dL)

> > >

> > > Insulin 7 (in range, reference < 17 uIU/mL)

> > >

> > > T-4, Free 1.0 (in range, reference 0.8-1.8 ng/dL)

> > >

> > > T-3, Free 383 (in range, reference 230-420

> ng/dL)

> > >

> > > Testosterone, Total 613 (in range, reference

> 250-1100

> > > ng/dL)

> > >

> > > Testosterone, Free % 2.94 (high, reference

> 1.5-220 %)

> > >

> > > Testosterone, Free 180.2 (high, reference

> 35.0-155.0

> > pg/mL)

> > >

> > > Hemoglobin A1c % of total Hgb 6.2 (high,

> reference

> > <

> > > 6/0 %)

> > >

> > > The notes the doctor made were my insulin went

> down

> > > (great), DHEA was

> > > probably high because I took the 25mg shortly

> before

> > > testing so it's

> > > probably OK. Hemoglobin is also high, but going

> down

> > since

> > > last labs.

> > >

> > > Estradiol is within range but the doctor would

> prefer

> > to

> > > see it lower

> > > so I'm switching from chrysin to Arimidex

> 0.5mg

> > > 2x/week.

> > >

> > > Testosterone is in the mid-range, but the free T

> is

> > high so

> > > we'll see

> > > what happens next testing.

> > >

> > > I'm also taking cortef 5mg 2-3x / day and a

> > supplement

> > > called

> > > Serenagan for adrenal fatigue.

> > >

> > > Also Vitamin D and Melatonin and progesterone.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I love getting my morning wood. I get it every morning now and that just started

again the past few months after being on TRT and having my T injections raised

to almost 200mg / week.

What is the problem with Arimidex that it stops wood? Do you need Estradiol to

get morning wood?

________________________________

From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:02:14 PM

Subject: Re: subQ injection lab results

Maybe the other stuff was working with levels this low if your take Arimidex

your going to go down to low. If you get morning wood try .25 mgs 2x's a week

but you your wood stops stop taking it your going down to low.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > From: justinjune65 <justinjune65@

> >

> > > Subject: subQ injection lab

> results

> > >

> > > Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 8:48 PM

> > > I posted last week that I was taking subcutaneous

> T

> > > injections 3x a

> > > week for a of almost 200mg test cyp / week.

> > >

> > > I got my lab results today and I thought I would

> share

> > > them.

> > >

> > > T3 13 (in range reference, 11-32 ng/dL)

> > >

> > > Estradiol 20 (in range, reference <= 29 pg/mL)

> > >

> > > DHEA 462 (high, reference 45-345 mcg/dL)

> > >

> > > Insulin 7 (in range, reference < 17 uIU/mL)

> > >

> > > T-4, Free 1.0 (in range, reference 0.8-1.8 ng/dL)

> > >

> > > T-3, Free 383 (in range, reference 230-420

> ng/dL)

> > >

> > > Testosterone, Total 613 (in range, reference

> 250-1100

> > > ng/dL)

> > >

> > > Testosterone, Free % 2.94 (high, reference

> 1.5-220 %)

> > >

> > > Testosterone, Free 180.2 (high, reference

> 35.0-155.0

> > pg/mL)

> > >

> > > Hemoglobin A1c % of total Hgb 6.2 (high,

> reference

> > <

> > > 6/0 %)

> > >

> > > The notes the doctor made were my insulin went

> down

> > > (great), DHEA was

> > > probably high because I took the 25mg shortly

> before

> > > testing so it's

> > > probably OK. Hemoglobin is also high, but going

> down

> > since

> > > last labs.

> > >

> > > Estradiol is within range but the doctor would

> prefer

> > to

> > > see it lower

> > > so I'm switching from chrysin to Arimidex

> 0.5mg

> > > 2x/week.

> > >

> > > Testosterone is in the mid-range, but the free T

> is

> > high so

> > > we'll see

> > > what happens next testing.

> > >

> > > I'm also taking cortef 5mg 2-3x / day and a

> > supplement

> > > called

> > > Serenagan for adrenal fatigue.

> > >

> > > Also Vitamin D and Melatonin and progesterone.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yes you need your Estrada at the right level I have found when you have morning

wood your at a good level so I gage my Estrada by my wood. If your to high you

will get ED and if your to low it's worse taking a pill you can't get it up.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > >

> > > > From: justinjune65 <justinjune65@

> > >

> > > > Subject: subQ injection lab

> > results

> > > >

> > > > Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 8:48 PM

> > > > I posted last week that I was taking

> subcutaneous

> > T

> > > > injections 3x a

> > > > week for a of almost 200mg test cyp / week.

> > > >

> > > > I got my lab results today and I thought I

> would

> > share

> > > > them.

> > > >

> > > > T3 13 (in range reference, 11-32 ng/dL)

> > > >

> > > > Estradiol 20 (in range, reference <= 29

> pg/mL)

> > > >

> > > > DHEA 462 (high, reference 45-345 mcg/dL)

> > > >

> > > > Insulin 7 (in range, reference < 17

> uIU/mL)

> > > >

> > > > T-4, Free 1.0 (in range, reference 0.8-1.8

> ng/dL)

> > > >

> > > > T-3, Free 383 (in range, reference 230-420

> > ng/dL)

> > > >

> > > > Testosterone, Total 613 (in range, reference

> > 250-1100

> > > > ng/dL)

> > > >

> > > > Testosterone, Free % 2.94 (high, reference

> > 1.5-220 %)

> > > >

> > > > Testosterone, Free 180.2 (high, reference

> > 35.0-155.0

> > > pg/mL)

> > > >

> > > > Hemoglobin A1c % of total Hgb 6.2 (high,

> > reference

> > > <

> > > > 6/0 %)

> > > >

> > > > The notes the doctor made were my insulin

> went

> > down

> > > > (great), DHEA was

> > > > probably high because I took the 25mg

> shortly

> > before

> > > > testing so it's

> > > > probably OK. Hemoglobin is also high, but

> going

> > down

> > > since

> > > > last labs.

> > > >

> > > > Estradiol is within range but the doctor

> would

> > prefer

> > > to

> > > > see it lower

> > > > so I'm switching from chrysin to

> Arimidex

> > 0.5mg

> > > > 2x/week.

> > > >

> > > > Testosterone is in the mid-range, but the

> free T

> > is

> > > high so

> > > > we'll see

> > > > what happens next testing.

> > > >

> > > > I'm also taking cortef 5mg 2-3x / day

> and a

> > > supplement

> > > > called

> > > > Serenagan for adrenal fatigue.

> > > >

> > > > Also Vitamin D and Melatonin and

> progesterone.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > >

> > > >