Re: Adrenal Fatigue Due to Primary Hypogonadism

[Guest guest]

Hi Eugene I have a bad Pituitary it's called Hypopituitary my Pit. does not send

the messages to make more testosterone from my Testis or the to my Adrenals to

make more cortisol and my Thyriod. I also have low DHEA and Glucose. The best

thing I can tell you is to go to these sites and read.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/adrenal-thread-134240195.html

At this site go to the home page after you read treating your Adrenls and read

the site.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/how-to-treat

A good book is " Adrenal Fatigue the 21st. Centry by and if your going

to treat with Isocort or Hydrocortisone get this book by Dr. Jefferies " Safe

Uses for Cortisol "

http://members.aol.com/jefferiesw/

http://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN=039807500X

I hope this helps and good luck finding a good Dr. to treat this I am treating

my self through my DR.

Phil

eugenekeddy <eugenekeddy@...> wrote:

Does anyone know of any resources for guys with adrenal fatigue due to

primary hypogonadism?

In early 2006 at age 38, I was in the " high adrenal " phase of adrenal

fatigue when I found out that I had low testosterone (around 280). I

think I'm primary because my LH was sky-high and I have only one

functioning 'nad due to an undescended testicle.

I've now been on TRT for about 6 months (with T levels of around

800-900) but have now slipped in the exhaustion phase of adrenal

fatigue (i.e., low cortisol output).

I had been hoping that fixing the T would fix the adrenals, but

apparently it didn't. I thought that my adrenal fatigue was due to my

lowered ability to handle stress, due to low T levels. So I thought

fixing the T would help the adrenals - apparently not.

This is all very frustrating. I know that there are many possible

causes of adrenal fatigue, but I thought that primary hypogonadism

would be the likely suspect.

Thanks,

Eugene

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Phil,

I am familiar with all of the resources that you listed. I am a

regular lurker at meso and STTM. I own the Adrenal Fatigue book and

have read the highlights of Jeffries' work. I am also a patient of

the famous Dr. Rind. I went to him with low body temp and he's the

one who discovered my low T and adrenal fatigue. I recently started

on physiological doses of Cortef which completely turned my mood and

energy around. I have also started 1/2 grain of Armour with no

adverse effects.

So far, I have not found any good evidence or case studies showing

adrenal fatigue as a result of primary hypogonadism. I'm guessing

that my lifelong low T has made me more vulnerable to stress, but so

far it's just a guess.

I also want to say that you are an incredible resource for us, and I

thank you for spending your time helping us.

Eugene

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/adrenal-thread-134240195.html

> At this site go to the home page after you read treating your

Adrenls and read the site.

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/how-to-treat

> A good book is " Adrenal Fatigue the 21st. Centry by and if

your going to treat with Isocort or Hydrocortisone get this book by

Dr. Jefferies " Safe Uses for Cortisol "

> http://members.aol.com/jefferiesw/

> http://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN=039807500X

> I hope this helps and good luck finding a good Dr. to treat this I

am treating my self through my DR.

> Phil

>

>

> eugenekeddy <eugenekeddy@...> wrote:

> Does anyone know of any resources for guys with adrenal

fatigue due to

> primary hypogonadism?

>

> In early 2006 at age 38, I was in the " high adrenal " phase of adrenal

> fatigue when I found out that I had low testosterone (around 280). I

> think I'm primary because my LH was sky-high and I have only one

> functioning 'nad due to an undescended testicle.

>

> I've now been on TRT for about 6 months (with T levels of around

> 800-900) but have now slipped in the exhaustion phase of adrenal

> fatigue (i.e., low cortisol output).

>

> I had been hoping that fixing the T would fix the adrenals, but

> apparently it didn't. I thought that my adrenal fatigue was due to my

> lowered ability to handle stress, due to low T levels. So I thought

> fixing the T would help the adrenals - apparently not.

>

> This is all very frustrating. I know that there are many possible

> causes of adrenal fatigue, but I thought that primary hypogonadism

> would be the likely suspect.

[Guest guest]

I think now we are finding it is not low T but high Estradiol that makes ones

Cortisol levels go high and after a time you end up with Adrenal Fatigue.

Phil

eugenekeddy <eugenekeddy@...> wrote:

Phil,

I am familiar with all of the resources that you listed. I am a

regular lurker at meso and STTM. I own the Adrenal Fatigue book and

have read the highlights of Jeffries' work. I am also a patient of

the famous Dr. Rind. I went to him with low body temp and he's the

one who discovered my low T and adrenal fatigue. I recently started

on physiological doses of Cortef which completely turned my mood and

energy around. I have also started 1/2 grain of Armour with no

adverse effects.

So far, I have not found any good evidence or case studies showing

adrenal fatigue as a result of primary hypogonadism. I'm guessing

that my lifelong low T has made me more vulnerable to stress, but so

far it's just a guess.

I also want to say that you are an incredible resource for us, and I

thank you for spending your time helping us.

Eugene

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/adrenal-thread-134240195.html

> At this site go to the home page after you read treating your

Adrenls and read the site.

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/how-to-treat

> A good book is " Adrenal Fatigue the 21st. Centry by and if

your going to treat with Isocort or Hydrocortisone get this book by

Dr. Jefferies " Safe Uses for Cortisol "

> http://members.aol.com/jefferiesw/

> http://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN=039807500X

> I hope this helps and good luck finding a good Dr. to treat this I

am treating my self through my DR.

> Phil

>

>

> eugenekeddy <eugenekeddy@...> wrote:

> Does anyone know of any resources for guys with adrenal

fatigue due to

> primary hypogonadism?

>

> In early 2006 at age 38, I was in the " high adrenal " phase of adrenal

> fatigue when I found out that I had low testosterone (around 280). I

> think I'm primary because my LH was sky-high and I have only one

> functioning 'nad due to an undescended testicle.

>

> I've now been on TRT for about 6 months (with T levels of around

> 800-900) but have now slipped in the exhaustion phase of adrenal

> fatigue (i.e., low cortisol output).

>

> I had been hoping that fixing the T would fix the adrenals, but

> apparently it didn't. I thought that my adrenal fatigue was due to my

> lowered ability to handle stress, due to low T levels. So I thought

> fixing the T would help the adrenals - apparently not.

>

> This is all very frustrating. I know that there are many possible

> causes of adrenal fatigue, but I thought that primary hypogonadism

> would be the likely suspect.

---------------------------------

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Do you know if nco has anything to say about this? This seems

like the kind of question that he would immediately know the answer to.

> I think now we are finding it is not low T but high Estradiol that

makes ones Cortisol levels go high and after a time you end up with

Adrenal Fatigue.

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Phil,

I had a recent AM Cortisol which came back at 6.5 (range 3-25, my

doctor said she would have hoped for 18 at least). DHEA-s has been

low normal, too. The doctor scheduled an ACTH Stim. test in 2 weeks

to further check.

Where do you think I go from here??? What do I do???

Thanks,

Bill

> > Does anyone know of any resources for guys with adrenal

> fatigue due to

> > primary hypogonadism?

> >

> > In early 2006 at age 38, I was in the " high adrenal " phase of

adrenal

> > fatigue when I found out that I had low testosterone (around

280). I

> > think I'm primary because my LH was sky-high and I have only one

> > functioning 'nad due to an undescended testicle.

> >

> > I've now been on TRT for about 6 months (with T levels of around

> > 800-900) but have now slipped in the exhaustion phase of adrenal

> > fatigue (i.e., low cortisol output).

> >

> > I had been hoping that fixing the T would fix the adrenals, but

> > apparently it didn't. I thought that my adrenal fatigue was due

to my

> > lowered ability to handle stress, due to low T levels. So I

thought

> > fixing the T would help the adrenals - apparently not.

> >

> > This is all very frustrating. I know that there are many possible

> > causes of adrenal fatigue, but I thought that primary

hypogonadism

> > would be the likely suspect.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have not read anything yet do read all his posts he has not been around for a

good 3 weeks now.

Phil

eugenekeddy <eugenekeddy@...> wrote:

Phil,

Do you know if nco has anything to say about this? This seems

like the kind of question that he would immediately know the answer to.

> I think now we are finding it is not low T but high Estradiol that

makes ones Cortisol levels go high and after a time you end up with

Adrenal Fatigue.

> Phil

---------------------------------

Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

Bill sorry to hear you have this problem your lower then my first test I was 8.

The ACTH Stim test will show if it's you Adrenals or your Pituitary not sending

the message ACTH to your Adrenals to make Cortisol. Here is a link to Chris's

Explaination of the ACTH test you need to read this I have seen posts where

Dr.'s did it wrong. You need to be sure you understand about this test and how

to read it.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=288.

Most people find out they have low cortisol because they have a low Thyroid

Problem one needs cortisol to carry the thyroid hormone from the blood to the

cells. If there cortisol is low do to Adrenal Fatigue there is not enough

cortisol to do this and as they up there meds they start to feel hyper because

the hormone is going to high in the blood and not being carried to the cells.

One big cause of Adrenal Fatigue is a low Thyroid the Adrenals work over time to

bring up levels of thyroid and become fatigued.

Now we are finding a lot of men with low T had Adrenal Fatigue do to the

stress of low T be it from the fatigue of low T or the high Estradiol. But it's

dam odd that as men hear about this and are not feeling 100% on TRT that after a

blood test there cortisol levels are low.

The first thing I did was to try and figure out what stage of Adrenal Fatigue

I was at and it looked like stage 3.

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/Selye%20large.html

Then I went to this site and printed out a chart for tracking your body's

temps. I would take it under my arm before getting out of bed for 10 min.'s if

it is under 97.8 you have a thyroid problem my temps that I did were for 4

morning and then I did an avg. it was 95.8.

http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions

Using this to take my temps it is also sold at Wall-Greens and Wal-mart.

http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/Products/Thermometer.htm

Then after I was up for 3 hrs I took my temp every 3 hrs 3 to 4 times a day

and did an avg. My avg. was low between 96.8 to 97.6 and each day was up or

down this is Adrenal Fatigue.

I then ordered a Saliva Test through this link.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

From the Canary Club for about $140.00 this is the best way to test cortisol

levels and DHEA.

Then I bought the book " Adrenal Fatigue The 21st. Century by . This

book was a big help in understanding this problem but doing what he said to

treat it with stuff like this did nothing to my temp chart. It has this in it

Pituitary Extract (Freeze-Dried) 120 mg

Adrenal Cortex Extract 33 mg and cortisol but you have no idea how much.

http://www.myvitanet.com/adsolfrac50c.html

Also he said to do B Vit.s.

http://www.myvitanet.com/endfadaenbco.html

Vit. C

http://www.myvitanet.com/supbiocbuf36.html

Everyone with low Cortisol has low DHEA I take this 2 a day.

http://www.myvitanet.com/dhea260capph.html

I take 3 grams of a good brand of Fish OIL. I buy mine at Coscos (spelling) I

get the one that is coated so you don't burp it up.

And there is Maca this helps keep your Adrenal hormones leveled. I was off

this for 30 days and just went back on it I feel better on this. I do 1/2 tsp 2

x's a day. This is the best price and product on he web.

http://www.macaweb.com/view.cfm/hurl/pid=1033/Maca-Powerreg--454g1-lbs-Raw-Maca-\

Powder

I dropped the Adrenal cortex

http://www.myvitanet.com/adsolfrac50c.html

It did nothing.

I got some Isocort and started on it it is made from sheep adrenal's and wow

the first pill made me feel good you need to start this slow. I did 4 pills =

10mgs. of cortisol first thing in the morning with food and 2 pills = 5mgs. of

cortisol at noon and dinner. This changed my chart my temps come up to 98.4 to

99 but still up and down if your avg. is up or down from day to day more then .2

tenths your cortisol is still to low. I followed this to get started.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/how-to-treat

My Dr. would not give me Hydrocortisone said it's not safe to use. So I got

this book by Dr. Jefferies " Safe Uses of Cortisol "

http://members.aol.com/jefferiesw/

http://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN=039807500X

Showed this to my Dr. and he blew it off and pissed me off.

I got up to 120mgs of Armour and could not do more my charting even showed my

Adrenals were not right to go higher. So I switched to HC and stated with

10mgs. in the morning wow in less then a week my temps were a straight line

across at 98.6 first time in 8 months of charting things were looking good and I

was feeling better. So if you need to treat your Adrenals the best place for

help is Val. at this link.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/community/viewforum.php?f=5

Most of the people posting there are Thyroid and Adrenal Fatigue but she helps

for Adrenals only too. Do get your thyroid checked have the TSH, Free T4 and

Free T3 checked and post them to her.

Wow this was a long post hope it helps.

Phil

williamb11 <no_reply > wrote: Phil,

I had a recent AM Cortisol which came back at 6.5 (range 3-25, my

doctor said she would have hoped for 18 at least). DHEA-s has been

low normal, too. The doctor scheduled an ACTH Stim. test in 2 weeks

to further check.

Where do you think I go from here??? What do I do???

Thanks,

Bill

> > Does anyone know of any resources for guys with adrenal

> fatigue due to

> > primary hypogonadism?

> >

> > In early 2006 at age 38, I was in the " high adrenal " phase of

adrenal

> > fatigue when I found out that I had low testosterone (around

280). I

> > think I'm primary because my LH was sky-high and I have only one

> > functioning 'nad due to an undescended testicle.

> >

> > I've now been on TRT for about 6 months (with T levels of around

> > 800-900) but have now slipped in the exhaustion phase of adrenal

> > fatigue (i.e., low cortisol output).

> >

> > I had been hoping that fixing the T would fix the adrenals, but

> > apparently it didn't. I thought that my adrenal fatigue was due

to my

> > lowered ability to handle stress, due to low T levels. So I

thought

> > fixing the T would help the adrenals - apparently not.

> >

> > This is all very frustrating. I know that there are many possible

> > causes of adrenal fatigue, but I thought that primary

hypogonadism

> > would be the likely suspect.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Again, you have outdone yourself! What a post - what a blessing to

me.

I will start with temp. tracking on Sat. and let you know the

results. I do have some slaiva tests that I will post for you (not

a surprise, all low).

My thyroid is actually normal, I don't have Free T4, T3 and TSH

numbers on me, but all looked good and in top half of range.

If pituitary is failing to produce adequate LH and FSH resulting in

low T, would not you think it also is not adequately producing

ACTH?? I guess we will see with the Stim. test.

I had a ton of panic attacks as a result of low T during my teen and

low adult years - could this have affected cortisol/adrenals??

Thanks Phil - the volume of info. in you has been a great benefit

and blessing to me more than I can articulate.

> > > Does anyone know of any resources for guys with adrenal

> > fatigue due to

> > > primary hypogonadism?

> > >

> > > In early 2006 at age 38, I was in the " high adrenal " phase of

> adrenal

> > > fatigue when I found out that I had low testosterone (around

> 280). I

> > > think I'm primary because my LH was sky-high and I have only

one

> > > functioning 'nad due to an undescended testicle.

> > >

> > > I've now been on TRT for about 6 months (with T levels of

around

> > > 800-900) but have now slipped in the exhaustion phase of

adrenal

> > > fatigue (i.e., low cortisol output).

> > >

> > > I had been hoping that fixing the T would fix the adrenals, but

> > > apparently it didn't. I thought that my adrenal fatigue was

due

> to my

> > > lowered ability to handle stress, due to low T levels. So I

> thought

> > > fixing the T would help the adrenals - apparently not.

> > >

> > > This is all very frustrating. I know that there are many

possible

> > > causes of adrenal fatigue, but I thought that primary

> hypogonadism

> > > would be the likely suspect.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill,

Glaid to help but remember this is all new to me only been at it 8 months and

still not right like I was last yr. Your Free T 3 and 4 need to be up in the

upper high end of normal mine was just under mid range on T3. I never got to a

ACTH test but we know from other test and things that are low that my Pituitary

is not sending out the messages to my Adrenals or Thyroid and Testis. I still

have panic attacks has one the other day can't fingure out if it's low sugar or

high E2.

Phil

williamb11 <no_reply > wrote:

Phil,

Again, you have outdone yourself! What a post - what a blessing to

me.

I will start with temp. tracking on Sat. and let you know the

results. I do have some slaiva tests that I will post for you (not

a surprise, all low).

My thyroid is actually normal, I don't have Free T4, T3 and TSH

numbers on me, but all looked good and in top half of range.

If pituitary is failing to produce adequate LH and FSH resulting in

low T, would not you think it also is not adequately producing

ACTH?? I guess we will see with the Stim. test.

I had a ton of panic attacks as a result of low T during my teen and

low adult years - could this have affected cortisol/adrenals??

Thanks Phil - the volume of info. in you has been a great benefit

and blessing to me more than I can articulate.

> > > Does anyone know of any resources for guys with adrenal

> > fatigue due to

> > > primary hypogonadism?

> > >

> > > In early 2006 at age 38, I was in the " high adrenal " phase of

> adrenal

> > > fatigue when I found out that I had low testosterone (around

> 280). I

> > > think I'm primary because my LH was sky-high and I have only

one

> > > functioning 'nad due to an undescended testicle.

> > >

> > > I've now been on TRT for about 6 months (with T levels of

around

> > > 800-900) but have now slipped in the exhaustion phase of

adrenal

> > > fatigue (i.e., low cortisol output).

> > >

> > > I had been hoping that fixing the T would fix the adrenals, but

> > > apparently it didn't. I thought that my adrenal fatigue was

due

> to my

> > > lowered ability to handle stress, due to low T levels. So I

> thought

> > > fixing the T would help the adrenals - apparently not.

> > >

> > > This is all very frustrating. I know that there are many

possible

> > > causes of adrenal fatigue, but I thought that primary

> hypogonadism

> > > would be the likely suspect.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Phil have you ever tried inositol powder for your

panic attacks? A heaping tablespoonful does

a nice job of blocking them for me, I take a heaping

teaspoonful ever day as a preventative.

> > > > Does anyone know of any resources for guys with adrenal

> > > fatigue due to

> > > > primary hypogonadism?

> > > >

> > > > In early 2006 at age 38, I was in the " high adrenal " phase of

> > adrenal

> > > > fatigue when I found out that I had low testosterone (around

> > 280). I

> > > > think I'm primary because my LH was sky-high and I have only

> one

> > > > functioning 'nad due to an undescended testicle.

> > > >

> > > > I've now been on TRT for about 6 months (with T levels of

> around

> > > > 800-900) but have now slipped in the exhaustion phase of

> adrenal

> > > > fatigue (i.e., low cortisol output).

> > > >

> > > > I had been hoping that fixing the T would fix the adrenals,

but

> > > > apparently it didn't. I thought that my adrenal fatigue was

> due

> > to my

> > > > lowered ability to handle stress, due to low T levels. So I

> > thought

> > > > fixing the T would help the adrenals - apparently not.

> > > >

> > > > This is all very frustrating. I know that there are many

> possible

> > > > causes of adrenal fatigue, but I thought that primary

> > hypogonadism

> > > > would be the likely suspect.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

No I have not and we know why I have them it's the high E2 that does this I

could take Xanax and it would not help but I can take Arimidex and feel better

in 30 min.'s.

Phil

betaine_hcl <no_reply > wrote:

Phil have you ever tried inositol powder for your

panic attacks? A heaping tablespoonful does

a nice job of blocking them for me, I take a heaping

teaspoonful ever day as a preventative.

> > > > Does anyone know of any resources for guys with adrenal

> > > fatigue due to

> > > > primary hypogonadism?

> > > >

> > > > In early 2006 at age 38, I was in the " high adrenal " phase of

> > adrenal

> > > > fatigue when I found out that I had low testosterone (around

> > 280). I

> > > > think I'm primary because my LH was sky-high and I have only

> one

> > > > functioning 'nad due to an undescended testicle.

> > > >

> > > > I've now been on TRT for about 6 months (with T levels of

> around

> > > > 800-900) but have now slipped in the exhaustion phase of

> adrenal

> > > > fatigue (i.e., low cortisol output).

> > > >

> > > > I had been hoping that fixing the T would fix the adrenals,

but

> > > > apparently it didn't. I thought that my adrenal fatigue was

> due

> > to my

> > > > lowered ability to handle stress, due to low T levels. So I

> > thought

> > > > fixing the T would help the adrenals - apparently not.

> > > >

> > > > This is all very frustrating. I know that there are many

> possible

> > > > causes of adrenal fatigue, but I thought that primary

> > hypogonadism

> > > > would be the likely suspect.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is a factor I think as when I had my first

panic attack I had started taking a med the slows

the metabolization of estradiol into estrone.

It was a proton pump inhibitor class med.

I don't take them anymore. I suspect the use

of that med class of drugs is the reason I read this forum.

I haven't had a full blown one is years so....

.....but as I said the take inositol on daily

basis.

> > > > > Does anyone know of any resources for guys with adrenal

> > > > fatigue due to

> > > > > primary hypogonadism?

> > > > >

> > > > > In early 2006 at age 38, I was in the " high adrenal " phase

of

> > > adrenal

> > > > > fatigue when I found out that I had low testosterone

(around

> > > 280). I

> > > > > think I'm primary because my LH was sky-high and I have

only

> > one

> > > > > functioning 'nad due to an undescended testicle.

> > > > >

> > > > > I've now been on TRT for about 6 months (with T levels of

> > around

> > > > > 800-900) but have now slipped in the exhaustion phase of

> > adrenal

> > > > > fatigue (i.e., low cortisol output).

> > > > >

> > > > > I had been hoping that fixing the T would fix the adrenals,

> but

> > > > > apparently it didn't. I thought that my adrenal fatigue was

> > due

> > > to my

> > > > > lowered ability to handle stress, due to low T levels. So I

> > > thought

> > > > > fixing the T would help the adrenals - apparently not.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is all very frustrating. I know that there are many

> > possible

> > > > > causes of adrenal fatigue, but I thought that primary

> > > hypogonadism

> > > > > would be the likely suspect.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

If I were to take a B multivitamin, about how much do you think I would

need to take to get the same amount of inositol you're taking? In other

words, can you estimate in mg or some other measurement the amount

you're taking? Thanks alot. Cameron.

>

> Phil have you ever tried inositol powder for your

> panic attacks? A heaping tablespoonful does

> a nice job of blocking them for me, I take a heaping

> teaspoonful ever day as a preventative.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil,

For your panic attacks, have you ever tried taking your Arimidex

sublingually for a faster response? Just a thought - no data or

experience behind it.

Eugene

[Guest guest]

Yes and the taste is so bad I could not get it out of my mouth for hrs.

I don't have them anymore unless I let my E2 go to high.

Phil

eugenekeddy <eugenekeddy@...> wrote:

Phil,

For your panic attacks, have you ever tried taking your Arimidex

sublingually for a faster response? Just a thought - no data or

experience behind it.

Eugene

---------------------------------

Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited.

[Guest guest]

I'm gonna ditto that comment. A couple years ago Phil helped me big

time with his posts and leads to other sites and doctors.

I really appreciate you Phil! You've got a great heart!

>

> Phil,

....

> I also want to say that you are an incredible resource for us, and I

> thank you for spending your time helping us.

>

> Eugene

>

[Guest guest]

Well thank you guys now I am going to have a sore neck with this big head I got

now. :-)

Phil

<homebrewermsp@...> wrote:

I'm gonna ditto that comment. A couple years ago Phil helped me big

time with his posts and leads to other sites and doctors.

I really appreciate you Phil! You've got a great heart!

>

> Phil,

....

> I also want to say that you are an incredible resource for us, and I

> thank you for spending your time helping us.

>

> Eugene

>

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