RE: Is it Manopause? 1st Lab Results after starting Cypionate

January 4, 2006

I am not up on this kind of test did Dr. order this. And if you did the

24 hr test after you shot it will be this high. But if you did the test on the

last day then your shot is to much but I have to ask how do you feel. Your

Total E means nothing taking TMG will bring this down. The rest of the E's are

good.

Phil

Dave <daultman@...> wrote:

It's MAN-o-pause, there's no possible other explanation for hormone readings

like this! ;-)

So here's my urine lab results after 8 weeks of being on 100mg/week of Test

Cypionate supplemented with 300mg Idoleplex/Dim and HCI. The only thing not

HIGH on the report is E2 and E3. Everything else is out of control. I was

previously on Androgel with similar labs, though on AG the E2 was HIGH,

looks like Cyp broght that down, at least.

I don't even know what many of these hormones are. The stress hormones are

all too high also.

Not really looking for advice, just sharing the numbers; the doc has told me

to drop Cyp to 80mg/week and added Arimidex .5mg every third day and retest

in 6 weeks. Comments are always welcome, though - especially on the adrenal

hormones, which I am not too familiar with.

All readings are in ug/24hrs.

Total T 132 45-85

DHT 40 0-13

DHEA 4048 5-1476

Total Estrogen 40 4-22

E2 5.3 0-7

E1 26 3-12

E3 9.1 1-16

Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

Cortisone 487 92-366

Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

THE 9808 1365-5788

THB 608 32-238

5a-THB 1336 135-588

THA 421 52-277

THF 7001 942-2800

5a-THF 3787 796-2456

January 5, 2006

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:59:01 -0800, you wrote:

>Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

>5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

>Cortisone 487 92-366

>Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

Looks like some serious stress issues or adrenal tumor?

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

January 5, 2006

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:59:01 -0800, you wrote:

>Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

>5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

>Cortisone 487 92-366

>Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

>

>THE 9808 1365-5788

>THB 608 32-238

>5a-THB 1336 135-588

>THA 421 52-277

>THF 7001 942-2800

>5a-THF 3787 796-2456

All of these are way off the charts. I'd suspect there is something

more than just T issues going on here.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

January 5, 2006

Dr ordered these labs. He has a sticky post on why he uses urines in

the meso forums.

I took the 24 hour urines on Monday, I shoot on Wednesdays. Dr

originally told me the day of the test vs urines didn't matter, but in a

follow up he commented that my levels were high considering it was mid week.

I take TMG...I mistyped when I wrote HCI...I take Betadine HCI which is

another name for TMG.

> Re: Is it Manopause? 1st Lab Results

>after starting Cypionate

>

>I am not up on this kind of test did Dr. order this.

>And if you did the 24 hr test after you shot it will be this

>high. But if you did the test on the last day then your shot

>is to much but I have to ask how do you feel. Your Total E

>means nothing taking TMG will bring this down. The rest of

>the E's are good.

> Phil

>

>Dave <daultman@...> wrote:

> It's MAN-o-pause, there's no possible other explanation for

>hormone readings like this! ;-)

>

>So here's my urine lab results after 8 weeks of being on

>100mg/week of Test Cypionate supplemented with 300mg

>Idoleplex/Dim and HCI. The only thing not HIGH on the report

>is E2 and E3. Everything else is out of control. I was

>previously on Androgel with similar labs, though on AG the E2

>was HIGH, looks like Cyp broght that down, at least.

>

>I don't even know what many of these hormones are. The stress

>hormones are all too high also.

>

>Not really looking for advice, just sharing the numbers; the

>doc has told me to drop Cyp to 80mg/week and added Arimidex

>.5mg every third day and retest in 6 weeks. Comments are

>always welcome, though - especially on the adrenal hormones,

>which I am not too familiar with.

>

>All readings are in ug/24hrs.

>

>Total T 132 45-85

>DHT 40 0-13

>DHEA 4048 5-1476

>Total Estrogen 40 4-22

>E2 5.3 0-7

>E1 26 3-12

>E3 9.1 1-16

>Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

>5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

>Cortisone 487 92-366

>Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

>

>THE 9808 1365-5788

>THB 608 32-238

>5a-THB 1336 135-588

>THA 421 52-277

>THF 7001 942-2800

>5a-THF 3787 796-2456

>

January 5, 2006

You mean betaine HCl. Betadine is an another chemical.

But you are right betaine HCL is just an acidulated

form of trimethylglycine. I take it with

meals to improve digestion and to prevent reflux

of my stomach contents into my esophagus.

It (either form) will also help lower homocysteine levels

which is a good thing.

> > It's MAN-o-pause, there's no possible other explanation for

> >hormone readings like this! ;-)

> >

> >So here's my urine lab results after 8 weeks of being on

> >100mg/week of Test Cypionate supplemented with 300mg

> >Idoleplex/Dim and HCI. The only thing not HIGH on the report

> >is E2 and E3. Everything else is out of control. I was

> >previously on Androgel with similar labs, though on AG the E2

> >was HIGH, looks like Cyp broght that down, at least.

> >

> >I don't even know what many of these hormones are. The stress

> >hormones are all too high also.

> >

> >Not really looking for advice, just sharing the numbers; the

> >doc has told me to drop Cyp to 80mg/week and added Arimidex

> >.5mg every third day and retest in 6 weeks. Comments are

> >always welcome, though - especially on the adrenal hormones,

> >which I am not too familiar with.

> >

> >All readings are in ug/24hrs.

> >

> >Total T 132 45-85

> >DHT 40 0-13

> >DHEA 4048 5-1476

> >Total Estrogen 40 4-22

> >E2 5.3 0-7

> >E1 26 3-12

> >E3 9.1 1-16

> >Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

> >5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

> >Cortisone 487 92-366

> >Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

> >

> >THE 9808 1365-5788

> >THB 608 32-238

> >5a-THB 1336 135-588

> >THA 421 52-277

> >THF 7001 942-2800

> >5a-THF 3787 796-2456

> >

January 5, 2006

I'm fearing an adrenal tumor myself. Already had thyroid tumors, what's

next? I don't think of myself in " serious " stress; not enough to be pumping

out double the stress hormones over the last several months.

Time for some more research and/or tests.

> Re: Is it Manopause? 1st Lab Results

>after starting Cypionate

>

>On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:59:01 -0800, you wrote:

>

>>Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

>>5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

>>Cortisone 487 92-366

>>Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

>

>Looks like some serious stress issues or adrenal tumor?

>

>- - - -

>Just another albino black sheep

>

January 5, 2006

Betadine's a soap right? I should grab the labels on some of these things

before I type them.

> Re: Is it Manopause? 1st Lab Results

>after starting Cypionate

>

>You mean betaine HCl. Betadine is an another chemical.

>But you are right betaine HCL is just an acidulated form of

>trimethylglycine. I take it with meals to improve digestion

>and to prevent reflux of my stomach contents into my esophagus.

>It (either form) will also help lower homocysteine levels

>which is a good thing.

>

>> > It's MAN-o-pause, there's no possible other explanation

>for hormone

>> >readings like this! ;-)

>> >

>> >So here's my urine lab results after 8 weeks of being on 100mg/week

>> >of Test Cypionate supplemented with 300mg Idoleplex/Dim and

>HCI. The

>> >only thing not HIGH on the report is E2 and E3. Everything else is

>> >out of control. I was previously on Androgel with similar labs,

>> >though on AG the E2 was HIGH, looks like Cyp broght that down, at

>> >least.

>> >

>> >I don't even know what many of these hormones are. The stress

>> >hormones are all too high also.

>> >

>> >Not really looking for advice, just sharing the numbers;

>the doc has

>> >told me to drop Cyp to 80mg/week and added Arimidex .5mg

>every third

>> >day and retest in 6 weeks. Comments are always welcome, though -

>> >especially on the adrenal hormones, which I am not too

>familiar with.

>> >

>> >All readings are in ug/24hrs.

>> >

>> >Total T 132 45-85

>> >DHT 40 0-13

>> >DHEA 4048 5-1476

>> >Total Estrogen 40 4-22

>> >E2 5.3 0-7

>> >E1 26 3-12

>> >E3 9.1 1-16

>> >Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

>> >5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

>> >Cortisone 487 92-366

>> >Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

>> >

>> >THE 9808 1365-5788

>> >THB 608 32-238

>> >5a-THB 1336 135-588

>> >THA 421 52-277

>> >THF 7001 942-2800

>> >5a-THF 3787 796-2456

>> >

January 5, 2006

Well I don't think your in trouble just some fine tuning. I know he can read

tests by the day shot was done my Dr. can't. You your shot can peck in 48 hrs

some it is 8 but we are all different. I feel your fine and your E's look dam

good you have a ture result doing a 24 hr. urines. Tell my how you did time did

they send you a kit and did you mail it in or take it to the Dr.

Phil

Dave <daultman@...> wrote:

Dr ordered these labs. He has a sticky post on why he uses urines in

the meso forums.

I took the 24 hour urines on Monday, I shoot on Wednesdays. Dr

originally told me the day of the test vs urines didn't matter, but in a

follow up he commented that my levels were high considering it was mid week.

I take TMG...I mistyped when I wrote HCI...I take Betadine HCI which is

another name for TMG.

> Re: Is it Manopause? 1st Lab Results

>after starting Cypionate

>

>I am not up on this kind of test did Dr. order this.

>And if you did the 24 hr test after you shot it will be this

>high. But if you did the test on the last day then your shot

>is to much but I have to ask how do you feel. Your Total E

>means nothing taking TMG will bring this down. The rest of

>the E's are good.

> Phil

>

>Dave wrote:

> It's MAN-o-pause, there's no possible other explanation for

>hormone readings like this! ;-)

>

>So here's my urine lab results after 8 weeks of being on

>100mg/week of Test Cypionate supplemented with 300mg

>Idoleplex/Dim and HCI. The only thing not HIGH on the report

>is E2 and E3. Everything else is out of control. I was

>previously on Androgel with similar labs, though on AG the E2

>was HIGH, looks like Cyp broght that down, at least.

>

>I don't even know what many of these hormones are. The stress

>hormones are all too high also.

>

>Not really looking for advice, just sharing the numbers; the

>doc has told me to drop Cyp to 80mg/week and added Arimidex

>.5mg every third day and retest in 6 weeks. Comments are

>always welcome, though - especially on the adrenal hormones,

>which I am not too familiar with.

>

>All readings are in ug/24hrs.

>

>Total T 132 45-85

>DHT 40 0-13

>DHEA 4048 5-1476

>Total Estrogen 40 4-22

>E2 5.3 0-7

>E1 26 3-12

>E3 9.1 1-16

>Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

>5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

>Cortisone 487 92-366

>Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

>

>THE 9808 1365-5788

>THB 608 32-238

>5a-THB 1336 135-588

>THA 421 52-277

>THF 7001 942-2800

>5a-THF 3787 796-2456

>

January 5, 2006

Hey Dave,

How much do you weigh - I clock in at 160 pounds. 100 mg/7 days of cypionate

was too much for me. I am currently shooting 60-70 mg/day and take 0.5mg of

arimidex the day of my shot. I haven't got labs to back up how I feel but I feel

much better. Not quite tweeked in yet but getting close. On the 100 mg every 7

days, My Total T was 1445 on day 2 (should be the peak) on a range of ~ 250-820.

Arkansas

Dave <daultman@...> wrote:

It's MAN-o-pause, there's no possible other explanation for hormone readings

like this! ;-)

So here's my urine lab results after 8 weeks of being on 100mg/week of Test

Cypionate supplemented with 300mg Idoleplex/Dim and HCI. The only thing not

HIGH on the report is E2 and E3. Everything else is out of control. I was

previously on Androgel with similar labs, though on AG the E2 was HIGH,

looks like Cyp broght that down, at least.

I don't even know what many of these hormones are. The stress hormones are

all too high also.

Not really looking for advice, just sharing the numbers; the doc has told me

to drop Cyp to 80mg/week and added Arimidex .5mg every third day and retest

in 6 weeks. Comments are always welcome, though - especially on the adrenal

hormones, which I am not too familiar with.

All readings are in ug/24hrs.

Total T 132 45-85

DHT 40 0-13

DHEA 4048 5-1476

Total Estrogen 40 4-22

E2 5.3 0-7

E1 26 3-12

E3 9.1 1-16

Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

Cortisone 487 92-366

Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

THE 9808 1365-5788

THB 608 32-238

5a-THB 1336 135-588

THA 421 52-277

THF 7001 942-2800

5a-THF 3787 796-2456

January 5, 2006

Dr thought my estrogens were bad enough to put me on Arimidex, for what

that's worth. Funny that E2, the one we're supposedly most worried about is

the only one that's not out of whack, isn't it. Must be the DIM. As

previously posted, I am currently much more concerned about the adrenal

hormones, particularly cortisol. I've been working out HARD at the gym,

eating right, following a pro's workout schedule for over a year now, and

just can't seem to add any muscle or real increase in strength...I think the

cortisol is keeping me down, and wonder what else it's affecting.

For the urine labs, Dr uses Rhein Labs (I think they're in Washington

State), and has a sticky post about them in the meso forums as well.

They mail you a couple of large jugs to pee in over the 24 hour period. You

then pour out 45ml of the urine into a sample vile, freeze it, and Airborne

Express the sample back (prepaid package supplied.

The labs aren't cheap ($300), but they take your insurance info, bill your

insurance, and then mail you a check for whatever they got reimbursed.

I have some issues with the test procedure. Suppose you fill more than one

jug (I almost did)...then your late night sample isn't included in what you

pour into the 45ml vial, or the morning isn't. The instructions don't say

anything about shaking or mixing up the collection stuff to get a true

average (maybe just the action of pouring in the latest collection mixes it

up?).

Also, how much does your hydration.lac-thereof matter? My first test in

September I pissed out 1900ml, my second I pissed out 3000ml. Does this

affect the readings? I guess not, as both tests showed reasonable similar

results.

> Re: Is it Manopause? 1st Lab Results after

>>starting Cypionate

>>

>>I am not up on this kind of test did Dr. order this.

>>And if you did the 24 hr test after you shot it will be this

>high. But

>>if you did the test on the last day then your shot is to much but I

>>have to ask how do you feel. Your Total E means nothing

>taking TMG will

>>bring this down. The rest of the E's are good.

>> Phil

>>

>>Dave wrote:

>> It's MAN-o-pause, there's no possible other explanation for hormone

>>readings like this! ;-)

>>

>>So here's my urine lab results after 8 weeks of being on

>100mg/week of

>>Test Cypionate supplemented with 300mg Idoleplex/Dim and HCI.

>The only

>>thing not HIGH on the report is E2 and E3. Everything else is out of

>>control. I was previously on Androgel with similar labs, though on AG

>>the E2 was HIGH, looks like Cyp broght that down, at least.

>>

>>I don't even know what many of these hormones are. The stress

>hormones

>>are all too high also.

>>

>>Not really looking for advice, just sharing the numbers; the doc has

>>told me to drop Cyp to 80mg/week and added Arimidex .5mg every third

>>day and retest in 6 weeks. Comments are always welcome, though -

>>especially on the adrenal hormones, which I am not too familiar with.

>>

>>All readings are in ug/24hrs.

>>

>>Total T 132 45-85

>>DHT 40 0-13

>>DHEA 4048 5-1476

>>Total Estrogen 40 4-22

>>E2 5.3 0-7

>>E1 26 3-12

>>E3 9.1 1-16

>>Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

>>5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

>>Cortisone 487 92-366

>>Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

>>

>>THE 9808 1365-5788

>>THB 608 32-238

>>5a-THB 1336 135-588

>>THA 421 52-277

>>THF 7001 942-2800

>>5a-THF 3787 796-2456

>>

January 5, 2006

I weighed in at 225 this morning. 5'8 " . There's a good deal of fat (way

too much) on this frame, but I am big boned and have a good healthy amount

of muscle mass as well, so the weight's not as bad as it sounds for my

height.

I had blood labs drawn the week prior to the urines by a different doc. He

threw in a couple of hormones, which really confuse the picture here, but

I'll post them in another message.

> Re: Is it Manopause? 1st Lab Results

>after starting Cypionate

>

>Hey Dave,

>

> How much do you weigh - I clock in at 160 pounds. 100 mg/7

>days of cypionate was too much for me. I am currently shooting

>60-70 mg/day and take 0.5mg of arimidex the day of my shot. I

>haven't got labs to back up how I feel but I feel much better.

>Not quite tweeked in yet but getting close. On the 100 mg

>every 7 days, My Total T was 1445 on day 2 (should be the

>peak) on a range of ~ 250-820.

>

> Arkansas

>

>Dave <daultman@...> wrote:

> It's MAN-o-pause, there's no possible other explanation for

>hormone readings like this! ;-)

>

>So here's my urine lab results after 8 weeks of being on

>100mg/week of Test Cypionate supplemented with 300mg

>Idoleplex/Dim and HCI. The only thing not HIGH on the report

>is E2 and E3. Everything else is out of control. I was

>previously on Androgel with similar labs, though on AG the E2

>was HIGH, looks like Cyp broght that down, at least.

>

>I don't even know what many of these hormones are. The stress

>hormones are all too high also.

>

>Not really looking for advice, just sharing the numbers; the

>doc has told me to drop Cyp to 80mg/week and added Arimidex

>.5mg every third day and retest in 6 weeks. Comments are

>always welcome, though - especially on the adrenal hormones,

>which I am not too familiar with.

>

>All readings are in ug/24hrs.

>

>Total T 132 45-85

>DHT 40 0-13

>DHEA 4048 5-1476

>Total Estrogen 40 4-22

>E2 5.3 0-7

>E1 26 3-12

>E3 9.1 1-16

>Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

>5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

>Cortisone 487 92-366

>Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

>

>THE 9808 1365-5788

>THB 608 32-238

>5a-THB 1336 135-588

>THA 421 52-277

>THF 7001 942-2800

>5a-THF 3787 796-2456

>

January 5, 2006

I had some blood labs drawn by a different doc who threw in Total T and

Free T and TSH to the labs. They were taken one week earlier than the

urines, but the same day in relation to my prior shot of Cypionate.

TSH (3rd generation) - 4.03 uIU/mL range 0.40 - 5.50

Total Testosterone - 564 NG/DL range 241 - 827

Total Testosterone - 631 NG/DL range 241 - 827

Free Testosterone - 20.7 PG/ML range 7.2-23.0

I don't know why there are two Total Testosterone numbers, it looks like

they ran the sample twice, once on the 5th and once on the 6th. I did have

two vials drawn that day, so maybe each vial had a different result, or it

just shows how much variance labwork can have.

At any rate, my point of this is that while the urines show too high on

everything, the blood labs show that my T is right in the perfect zone, or

damn close anyways.

Another interesting point, I didn't include my urinary thyroid results,

which showed too high, but the blood TSH indicates I need to take more

thryoid replacement. Wierd, huh? The thyroid group always argues that TSH

is not a good diagnosis tool, but they also advocate that you should be

under 1.0, with Free Thyroid levels in the upper 2/3. My urines showed over

the upper limit. The blood draw did not include free levels.

> Is it Manopause? 1st Lab Results after starting Cypionate

>

>It's MAN-o-pause, there's no possible other explanation for

>hormone readings like this! ;-)

>

>So here's my urine lab results after 8 weeks of being on

>100mg/week of Test Cypionate supplemented with 300mg

>Idoleplex/Dim and HCI. The only thing not HIGH on the report

>is E2 and E3. Everything else is out of control. I was

>previously on Androgel with similar labs, though on AG the E2

>was HIGH, looks like Cyp broght that down, at least.

>

>I don't even know what many of these hormones are. The stress

>hormones are all too high also.

>

>Not really looking for advice, just sharing the numbers; the

>doc has told me to drop Cyp to 80mg/week and added Arimidex

>.5mg every third day and retest in 6 weeks. Comments are

>always welcome, though - especially on the adrenal hormones,

>which I am not too familiar with.

>

>All readings are in ug/24hrs.

>

>Total T 132 45-85

>DHT 40 0-13

>DHEA 4048 5-1476

>Total Estrogen 40 4-22

>E2 5.3 0-7

>E1 26 3-12

>E3 9.1 1-16

>Pregnanediol 1047 32-501

>5-Pregnenetriol 1445 28-1062

>Cortisone 487 92-366

>Cortisol(F) 363 35-168

>

>THE 9808 1365-5788

>THB 608 32-238

>5a-THB 1336 135-588

>THA 421 52-277

>THF 7001 942-2800

>5a-THF 3787 796-2456

>

January 5, 2006

Dave,

Hey I know the instructions are really sketchy, but for most of the 24

hour urines that we process at our lab we have to empty both containers into a

larger container and mix well before pouring off and freezing. Most people only

use one container for 24 hours but there are those who need two. I find that at

different times of the year and under different weather conditions I pee more.

like yesterday I had a full bladder about every half hour, why I don't know but

today so far I back to regular. I hope this helps.

Savario

---------------------------------

Photos

Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,

whatever.

January 5, 2006

Dave I under stand that Dr. dose not want one to have sex or work out the

day before a blood test I wonder is this is true on the 24 hr. test better ask

him. It can mess with the test and I would mix the two before sending it in

also good Question for Dr. Also on the E2 0 to 7 and your 5.3 need to convert

this on blood 10 to 30 is good what is 5.3 = to.