Re: Important help Required!!! Can you help this man? Assesment/getting a doctor

May 10, 2006

I feel your on the money. But can't help with a Dr.

Phil

chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated case and I

am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for him with regards

to making an appointement on the basis of my recommendation.

It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could look/appraise the

situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning for forwarding

him to an endocrinologist.

The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

He has since developed various symptoms that have not responded to

thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on treatment as

I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between the two conditions.

I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4 levels,

FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and sometimes this

does not adequately result in adequate replacement of freeT3.

His thyroid tests were as follows;

Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as though he is

getting adequate treatment for this problem.

He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

Free

Androgen

Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

Prog

Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in the

noral range and that although his serum testosterone level looked ok

his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than estradiol

was high normal.

I then calculated his free testosterone via the method employed by

Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically flawed.

His free calculated level was low (although this is theoritical)

I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

above.

The result was;

Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

This would appear very low on the reference range for a young man so

I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

Revolution.

He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated it was

Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an appointment

with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or near

Northern US such as New York.

A) Do you agree with my reasoning

If you do can anyone recomend a good endocrinologist/specialist

that they have seen personally.

Thanks

Chris

May 10, 2006

I saw an Andrologist named Tom Barnard in Leamington Ontario.

He was very good and tested me for everything.

There is even a pharmacy on site.

From my perspective the SHBG looks to be the culprit.

I hope this helps

Best wishes,

Nick (now back in the UK)

> Re: Important help Required!!! Can

> you help this man? Assesment/getting a doctor

>

> I feel your on the money. But can't help with a Dr.

> Phil

>

> chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

> I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated

> case and I am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for

> him with regards to making an appointement on the basis of my

> recommendation.

>

> It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could

> look/appraise the situation yourselves and comment upon my

> reasoning for forwarding him to an endocrinologist.

>

> The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

>

> He has since developed various symptoms that have not

> responded to thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

>

> I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on

> treatment as I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between

> the two conditions.

>

> I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4 levels,

> FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and

> sometimes this does not adequately result in adequate

> replacement of freeT3.

>

> His thyroid tests were as follows;

>

> Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

>

> So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as

> though he is getting adequate treatment for this problem.

>

> He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

>

> FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> Free

> Androgen

> Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> Prog

> Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

>

> What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in the

> noral range and that although his serum testosterone level looked ok

> his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than estradiol

> was high normal.

>

> I then calculated his free testosterone via the method employed by

> Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically flawed.

>

> His free calculated level was low (although this is theoritical)

>

> I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

> above.

>

> The result was;

>

> Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

>

> This would appear very low on the reference range for a young man so

> I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

>

> I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> Revolution.

>

> He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated it was

> Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

>

> On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an appointment

> with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or near

> Northern US such as New York.

>

> A) Do you agree with my reasoning

>

> If you do can anyone recomend a good endocrinologist/specialist

> that they have seen personally.

>

> Thanks

>

> Chris

>

May 10, 2006

Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which is why

I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

> > I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated

> > case and I am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for

> > him with regards to making an appointement on the basis of my

> > recommendation.

> >

> > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could

> > look/appraise the situation yourselves and comment upon my

> > reasoning for forwarding him to an endocrinologist.

> >

> > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> >

> > He has since developed various symptoms that have not

> > responded to thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> >

> > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on

> > treatment as I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between

> > the two conditions.

> >

> > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4 levels,

> > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and

> > sometimes this does not adequately result in adequate

> > replacement of freeT3.

> >

> > His thyroid tests were as follows;

> >

> > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> >

> > So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as

> > though he is getting adequate treatment for this problem.

> >

> > He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

> >

> > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > Free

> > Androgen

> > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > Prog

> > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> >

> > What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in

the

> > noral range and that although his serum testosterone level

looked ok

> > his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than

estradiol

> > was high normal.

> >

> > I then calculated his free testosterone via the method employed

by

> > Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically flawed.

> >

> > His free calculated level was low (although this is theoritical)

> >

> > I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

> > above.

> >

> > The result was;

> >

> > Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> >

> > This would appear very low on the reference range for a young

man so

> > I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

> >

> > I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> > Revolution.

> >

> > He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated it

was

> > Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

> >

> > On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an

appointment

> > with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or near

> > Northern US such as New York.

> >

> > A) Do you agree with my reasoning

> >

> > If you do can anyone recomend a good

endocrinologist/specialist

> > that they have seen personally.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Chris

> >

May 10, 2006

Chris

There's a lot more going on with this guy that the board may be interested in

noting...

This is a post from him on the Finasteride board. Is there anyone on the

board with these conditions or symptoms? you would think he'd quit the propecia

if he felt it was the case...

>I recently had my Free Testosterone tested

TEST RESULTS REFERENCE UNITS

Free Test 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

Here are my results from March '05 w/o having Free Testosterone

tested.

TEST RESULTS REFERENCE UNITS

FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

DHT: 1704 Adult Males 20-49 yrs: 217-1650 pmol/L

SSBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

Free

Androgen

Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

Prog

Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> I was on propecia for 4 years but got unilateral gyno from an

> antiandrogen. I experienced pain and subsequent sensitivity in

both

> nipples. After stopping the medications, only the left pec and

> nipple has remained slightly enlarged and puffy, respectively.

The

> left pec definitely looks a little odd. The nipple looks swollen

and

> some of the tissue around it is slightly raised. And there is a

> break going across the nipple, as if the tissue broke in two,

> stretching the nipple vertically. There is no lump and it is no

> longer sensitive. It's actually a little numb compared to the

right

> one. Even at my natural waist line, my left side is more curvy

than

> the right side, which is pretty much straight.

>

> Now, even if I measure out and take a miniscule dosage of

> finasteride my gyno will resurface. After taking 0.04mg of

> finasteride the night before (about 12 hours prior) to working

out,

> I experienced numbness in my left pec area soon after I started

> weight training that day.

>

> I saw a very prominent endocrinologist specializing in

reproductive

> endocrinology three times and he thinks that there is noting

wrong.

chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which is why

I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

---------------------------------

New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

May 10, 2006

Let me see if I can find him again Chris.

> Re: Important help Required!!! Can

> you help this man? Assesment/getting a doctor

>

> Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which

> is why I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

>

> I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

>

> > > I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated

> case and I

> > > am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for him

> with regards

> > > to making an appointement on the basis of my recommendation.

> > >

> > > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could

> look/appraise the

> > > situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning for forwarding

> > > him to an endocrinologist.

> > >

> > > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> > >

> > > He has since developed various symptoms that have not

> responded to

> > > thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> > >

> > > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on

> treatment as

> > > I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between the two

> conditions.

> > >

> > > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4 levels,

> > > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and

> sometimes this

> > > does not adequately result in adequate replacement of freeT3.

> > >

> > > His thyroid tests were as follows;

> > >

> > > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> > >

> > > So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as

> though he is

> > > getting adequate treatment for this problem.

> > >

> > > He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

> > >

> > > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > > Free

> > > Androgen

> > > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > > Prog

> > > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> > >

> > > What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in

> the

> > > noral range and that although his serum testosterone level

> looked ok

> > > his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than

> estradiol

> > > was high normal.

> > >

> > > I then calculated his free testosterone via the method employed

> by

> > > Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically flawed.

> > >

> > > His free calculated level was low (although this is theoritical)

> > >

> > > I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

> > > above.

> > >

> > > The result was;

> > >

> > > Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> > >

> > > This would appear very low on the reference range for a young

> man so

> > > I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

> > >

> > > I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> > > Revolution.

> > >

> > > He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated it

> was

> > > Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

> > >

> > > On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an

> appointment

> > > with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or near

> > > Northern US such as New York.

> > >

> > > A) Do you agree with my reasoning

> > >

> > > If you do can anyone recomend a good

> endocrinologist/specialist

> > > that they have seen personally.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

May 10, 2006

Here it is

Princess Centre

33 Princess St, Suite 401

Leamington, ON N8H 5C5

View Map

Accessibility Fully Accessible - Parking, Entrance, Washroom, Braille keypad

in elevator

Intersection Princess St and Mill St

Office Phone 326-7100

Description & Services

Description Holistic family medicine * nutritional medicine * specializing

in anti-aging therapies and bioidentical hormones

Hours Mon-Fri 9am-3pm; Sat 9-11am

Eligibility Must have valid Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP) card

I understand this is a walk-in facility now.

I believe the OHIP card is not mandatory, but I take it your friend is in

Ontario?

Cheers,

Nick

> Re: Important help Required!!! Can

> you help this man? Assesment/getting a doctor

>

> Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which

> is why I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

>

> I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

>

> > > I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated

> case and I

> > > am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for him

> with regards

> > > to making an appointement on the basis of my recommendation.

> > >

> > > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could

> look/appraise the

> > > situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning for forwarding

> > > him to an endocrinologist.

> > >

> > > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> > >

> > > He has since developed various symptoms that have not

> responded to

> > > thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> > >

> > > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on

> treatment as

> > > I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between the two

> conditions.

> > >

> > > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4 levels,

> > > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and

> sometimes this

> > > does not adequately result in adequate replacement of freeT3.

> > >

> > > His thyroid tests were as follows;

> > >

> > > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> > >

> > > So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as

> though he is

> > > getting adequate treatment for this problem.

> > >

> > > He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

> > >

> > > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > > Free

> > > Androgen

> > > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > > Prog

> > > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> > >

> > > What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in

> the

> > > noral range and that although his serum testosterone level

> looked ok

> > > his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than

> estradiol

> > > was high normal.

> > >

> > > I then calculated his free testosterone via the method employed

> by

> > > Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically flawed.

> > >

> > > His free calculated level was low (although this is theoritical)

> > >

> > > I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

> > > above.

> > >

> > > The result was;

> > >

> > > Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> > >

> > > This would appear very low on the reference range for a young

> man so

> > > I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

> > >

> > > I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> > > Revolution.

> > >

> > > He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated it

> was

> > > Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

> > >

> > > On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an

> appointment

> > > with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or near

> > > Northern US such as New York.

> > >

> > > A) Do you agree with my reasoning

> > >

> > > If you do can anyone recomend a good

> endocrinologist/specialist

> > > that they have seen personally.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

May 10, 2006

He is somewhere in South Eastern Canada and mentioned traveling to

North America to Shippen being a possibility. I take it that

Ontario is possible on that basis. The important thing was getting

him a personal recommendation given his less than straighforward

problem. It has already been overlooked by one endo who only

treating his thyroid and he is also on anti depressants,

gynecomastia, suffering emotional issues etc.

I hope he can see this doctor because you have rated him. If he

can't I may have to just point him to one in his local area without

such a recommendation but I hope I don't have to.

Thanks Nick

> > > > I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated

> > case and I

> > > > am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for him

> > with regards

> > > > to making an appointement on the basis of my recommendation.

> > > >

> > > > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could

> > look/appraise the

> > > > situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning for

forwarding

> > > > him to an endocrinologist.

> > > >

> > > > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> > > >

> > > > He has since developed various symptoms that have not

> > responded to

> > > > thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> > > >

> > > > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on

> > treatment as

> > > > I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between the two

> > conditions.

> > > >

> > > > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4

levels,

> > > > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and

> > sometimes this

> > > > does not adequately result in adequate replacement of freeT3.

> > > >

> > > > His thyroid tests were as follows;

> > > >

> > > > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > > > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > > > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> > > >

> > > > So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as

> > though he is

> > > > getting adequate treatment for this problem.

> > > >

> > > > He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

> > > >

> > > > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > > > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > > > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > > > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > > > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > > > Free

> > > > Androgen

> > > > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > > > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > > > Prog

> > > > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> > > >

> > > > What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in

> > the

> > > > noral range and that although his serum testosterone level

> > looked ok

> > > > his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than

> > estradiol

> > > > was high normal.

> > > >

> > > > I then calculated his free testosterone via the method

employed

> > by

> > > > Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically

flawed.

> > > >

> > > > His free calculated level was low (although this is

theoritical)

> > > >

> > > > I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of

the

> > > > above.

> > > >

> > > > The result was;

> > > >

> > > > Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> > > >

> > > > This would appear very low on the reference range for a young

> > man so

> > > > I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

> > > >

> > > > I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> > > > Revolution.

> > > >

> > > > He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated

it

> > was

> > > > Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

> > > >

> > > > On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an

> > appointment

> > > > with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or

near

> > > > Northern US such as New York.

> > > >

> > > > A) Do you agree with my reasoning

> > > >

> > > > If you do can anyone recomend a good

> > endocrinologist/specialist

> > > > that they have seen personally.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > Chris

> > > >

May 10, 2006

Jack,

Thanks for that. Propecia certainly doesn't help the T levels.

There is a guy who runs his own site on the subject

http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/

I hope this helps,

Nick

> Re: Important help Required!!! Can

> you help this man? Assesment/getting a doctor

>

> Chris

>

> There's a lot more going on with this guy that the board

> may be interested in noting...

> This is a post from him on the Finasteride board. Is there

> anyone on the board with these conditions or symptoms? you

> would think he'd quit the propecia if he felt it was the case...

>

> >I recently had my Free Testosterone tested

>

> TEST RESULTS REFERENCE UNITS

> Free Test 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

>

> Here are my results from March '05 w/o having Free

> Testosterone tested.

>

> TEST RESULTS REFERENCE UNITS

> FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> DHT: 1704 Adult Males 20-49 yrs: 217-1650 pmol/L

> SSBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> Free

> Androgen

> Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> Prog

> Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

>

> > I was on propecia for 4 years but got unilateral gyno from an

> > antiandrogen. I experienced pain and subsequent sensitivity in

> both

> > nipples. After stopping the medications, only the left pec

> and nipple

> > has remained slightly enlarged and puffy, respectively.

> The

> > left pec definitely looks a little odd. The nipple looks swollen

> and

> > some of the tissue around it is slightly raised. And there

> is a break

> > going across the nipple, as if the tissue broke in two,

> stretching the

> > nipple vertically. There is no lump and it is no longer sensitive.

> > It's actually a little numb compared to the

> right

> > one. Even at my natural waist line, my left side is more curvy

> than

> > the right side, which is pretty much straight.

> >

> > Now, even if I measure out and take a miniscule dosage of

> finasteride

> > my gyno will resurface. After taking 0.04mg of finasteride

> the night

> > before (about 12 hours prior) to working

> out,

> > I experienced numbness in my left pec area soon after I

> started weight

> > training that day.

> >

> > I saw a very prominent endocrinologist specializing in

> reproductive

> > endocrinology three times and he thinks that there is noting

> wrong.

>

> chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

> Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which is why

> I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

>

> I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

>

> ---------------------------------

> New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from

> your PC and save big.

>

May 10, 2006

just a thought but Dr. is closer and now I hear working on a project

with Dr. Shippen. Go to www.allthingsmale.com to contact him.

Phil

chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

He is somewhere in South Eastern Canada and mentioned traveling to

North America to Shippen being a possibility. I take it that

Ontario is possible on that basis. The important thing was getting

him a personal recommendation given his less than straighforward

problem. It has already been overlooked by one endo who only

treating his thyroid and he is also on anti depressants,

gynecomastia, suffering emotional issues etc.

I hope he can see this doctor because you have rated him. If he

can't I may have to just point him to one in his local area without

such a recommendation but I hope I don't have to.

Thanks Nick

> > > > I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated

> > case and I

> > > > am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for him

> > with regards

> > > > to making an appointement on the basis of my recommendation.

> > > >

> > > > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could

> > look/appraise the

> > > > situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning for

forwarding

> > > > him to an endocrinologist.

> > > >

> > > > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> > > >

> > > > He has since developed various symptoms that have not

> > responded to

> > > > thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> > > >

> > > > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on

> > treatment as

> > > > I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between the two

> > conditions.

> > > >

> > > > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4

levels,

> > > > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and

> > sometimes this

> > > > does not adequately result in adequate replacement of freeT3.

> > > >

> > > > His thyroid tests were as follows;

> > > >

> > > > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > > > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > > > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> > > >

> > > > So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as

> > though he is

> > > > getting adequate treatment for this problem.

> > > >

> > > > He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

> > > >

> > > > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > > > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > > > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > > > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > > > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > > > Free

> > > > Androgen

> > > > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > > > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > > > Prog

> > > > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> > > >

> > > > What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in

> > the

> > > > noral range and that although his serum testosterone level

> > looked ok

> > > > his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than

> > estradiol

> > > > was high normal.

> > > >

> > > > I then calculated his free testosterone via the method

employed

> > by

> > > > Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically

flawed.

> > > >

> > > > His free calculated level was low (although this is

theoritical)

> > > >

> > > > I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of

the

> > > > above.

> > > >

> > > > The result was;

> > > >

> > > > Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> > > >

> > > > This would appear very low on the reference range for a young

> > man so

> > > > I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

> > > >

> > > > I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> > > > Revolution.

> > > >

> > > > He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated

it

> > was

> > > > Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

> > > >

> > > > On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an

> > appointment

> > > > with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or

near

> > > > Northern US such as New York.

> > > >

> > > > A) Do you agree with my reasoning

> > > >

> > > > If you do can anyone recomend a good

> > endocrinologist/specialist

> > > > that they have seen personally.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > Chris

> > > >

May 10, 2006

Hi Jack,

I am the person and you are referring to.

was fully briefed on my entire background with using

finasteride and antiandrogens.

As you see below from my post in the finasteride forum, I did quit

finasteride after realising that it was causing my condition.

> Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which is

why

> I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

>

> I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

>

> ---------------------------------

> New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC

and save big.

>

May 10, 2006

has told me he is no longer taking finasteride and he also

had his DHT checked and this would not seem to be his current

problem. Rather his issue seems to relate to high SHBG and

resulting lowered free testosterone and symptoms.

As I have mentioned I think he needs an appointment to see a good

hormone specialist. I think how much said medications are having an

impact on his condition could then be properly evaluated.

I hope we welcome him to the board and help him.

Chris

> > Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which

is

> why

> > I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

> >

> > I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your

PC

> and save big.

> >

May 10, 2006

Hi Nick,

Did you see any other doctors in Ontario, specifically Toronto? If

so, what was your opinion about them?

Can you elaborate why Barnard was so good. I'd like to know that my

4 hour drive each way will be well worth it.

Thank you!!

> > I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated

> > case and I am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for

> > him with regards to making an appointement on the basis of my

> > recommendation.

> >

> > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could

> > look/appraise the situation yourselves and comment upon my

> > reasoning for forwarding him to an endocrinologist.

> >

> > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> >

> > He has since developed various symptoms that have not

> > responded to thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> >

> > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on

> > treatment as I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between

> > the two conditions.

> >

> > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4 levels,

> > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and

> > sometimes this does not adequately result in adequate

> > replacement of freeT3.

> >

> > His thyroid tests were as follows;

> >

> > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> >

> > So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as

> > though he is getting adequate treatment for this problem.

> >

> > He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

> >

> > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > Free

> > Androgen

> > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > Prog

> > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> >

> > What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in

the

> > noral range and that although his serum testosterone level

looked ok

> > his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than

estradiol

> > was high normal.

> >

> > I then calculated his free testosterone via the method employed

by

> > Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically flawed.

> >

> > His free calculated level was low (although this is theoritical)

> >

> > I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

> > above.

> >

> > The result was;

> >

> > Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> >

> > This would appear very low on the reference range for a young

man so

> > I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

> >

> > I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> > Revolution.

> >

> > He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated it

was

> > Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

> >

> > On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an

appointment

> > with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or near

> > Northern US such as New York.

> >

> > A) Do you agree with my reasoning

> >

> > If you do can anyone recomend a good

endocrinologist/specialist

> > that they have seen personally.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Chris

> >

May 10, 2006

I wasn't aware that u stopped. It just says when you stopped the conditions

didn't better. and now when you reduce the dosage the conditions resurface. so

that's what suggested you are continueing the medication at a lowered dose.

which is odd that one would try to take .04mg of fin. how did u measure that

out?

drew127812 <drew127812@...> wrote:

Hi Jack,

I am the person and you are referring to.

was fully briefed on my entire background with using

finasteride and antiandrogens.

As you see below from my post in the finasteride forum, I did quit

finasteride after realising that it was causing my condition.

> Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which is

why

> I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

>

> I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

>

> ---------------------------------

> New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC

and save big.

>

May 10, 2006

After about a year of being off finasteride, I figured that I would

try a low dose to see how much I could tolerate. I dissolved a 5mg

tablet into wine to meassure out .04mg. (That was 2 drops from

something like 100-200ml of wine, I can't remember the exact amount

of wine I dissolved it in at this point)

> > Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which

is

> why

> > I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

> >

> > I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your

PC

> and save big.

> >

May 10, 2006

For the record, I'm not on anti-depressants. I'm taking a very low

dose of Adderall for attention problems which became apparent soon

after I got gyne.

> > > Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which

> is

> > why

> > > I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

> > >

> > > I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your

> PC

> > and save big.

> > >

May 10, 2006

HI Drew,

No I didn't see anyone else. He was the closest to me. I did a search for

Andrologists in Canada on the web and found him. I don't remember one in To,

although that was four years ago now.

Barnard impressed me because he took all kinds of bloods and urine in order

to get a full picture of my health.

He then prescribed the meds for my ailments and got me back on track.

I'd been struggling for months, and the tests revealed low B12, Hypothyroid,

glucose intolerance and a few others I can't recall now. He has a totally

holistic approach and prescribes natural meds when appropriate. I was on

Niacin for a while.

You might contact his office and ask if he could recommend somebody in To.

He was a visiting professor at Guelph (I think) University, though I don't

know if he still does that.

I had to travel from London, which is about two hours away.

I hope it helps,

Nick

> Re: Important help Required!!! Can

> you help this man? Assesment/getting a doctor

>

> Hi Nick,

>

> Did you see any other doctors in Ontario, specifically

> Toronto? If so, what was your opinion about them?

>

> Can you elaborate why Barnard was so good. I'd like to know that my

> 4 hour drive each way will be well worth it.

>

> Thank you!!

>

> > > I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated

> case and I

> > > am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for him

> with regards

> > > to making an appointement on the basis of my recommendation.

> > >

> > > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could

> look/appraise the

> > > situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning for forwarding

> > > him to an endocrinologist.

> > >

> > > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> > >

> > > He has since developed various symptoms that have not

> responded to

> > > thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> > >

> > > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on

> treatment as

> > > I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between the two

> conditions.

> > >

> > > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4 levels,

> > > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and

> sometimes this

> > > does not adequately result in adequate replacement of freeT3.

> > >

> > > His thyroid tests were as follows;

> > >

> > > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> > >

> > > So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as

> though he is

> > > getting adequate treatment for this problem.

> > >

> > > He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

> > >

> > > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > > Free

> > > Androgen

> > > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > > Prog

> > > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> > >

> > > What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in

> the

> > > noral range and that although his serum testosterone level

> looked ok

> > > his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than

> estradiol

> > > was high normal.

> > >

> > > I then calculated his free testosterone via the method employed

> by

> > > Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically flawed.

> > >

> > > His free calculated level was low (although this is theoritical)

> > >

> > > I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

> > > above.

> > >

> > > The result was;

> > >

> > > Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> > >

> > > This would appear very low on the reference range for a young

> man so

> > > I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

> > >

> > > I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> > > Revolution.

> > >

> > > He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated it

> was

> > > Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

> > >

> > > On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an

> appointment

> > > with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or near

> > > Northern US such as New York.

> > >

> > > A) Do you agree with my reasoning

> > >

> > > If you do can anyone recomend a good

> endocrinologist/specialist

> > > that they have seen personally.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

May 10, 2006

If you can't find a good Dr. Dr. to me is the best there is go

www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are test needed

and why you could come to Michigan and see him.

Phil

drew127812 <drew127812@...> wrote:

For the record, I'm not on anti-depressants. I'm taking a very low

dose of Adderall for attention problems which became apparent soon

after I got gyne.

> > > Thanks Nick I thought the SHBG was the issue all along which

> is

> > why

> > > I asked him to get the free testosterone test.

> > >

> > > I don't suppose you have any contact details for that endo?

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your

> PC

> > and save big.

> > >

May 11, 2006

Hi Nick,

Thanks to you and I have an appointment with Barnard this

Monday.

They said I should expect to pay upwards of $1000+ for all sorts of

tests. Those seem like really expensive tests? Did you pay this

much?

> > > > I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated

> > case and I

> > > > am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for him

> > with regards

> > > > to making an appointement on the basis of my recommendation.

> > > >

> > > > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could

> > look/appraise the

> > > > situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning for

forwarding

> > > > him to an endocrinologist.

> > > >

> > > > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> > > >

> > > > He has since developed various symptoms that have not

> > responded to

> > > > thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> > > >

> > > > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on

> > treatment as

> > > > I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between the two

> > conditions.

> > > >

> > > > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4

levels,

> > > > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and

> > sometimes this

> > > > does not adequately result in adequate replacement of freeT3.

> > > >

> > > > His thyroid tests were as follows;

> > > >

> > > > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > > > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > > > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> > > >

> > > > So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as

> > though he is

> > > > getting adequate treatment for this problem.

> > > >

> > > > He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

> > > >

> > > > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > > > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > > > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > > > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > > > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > > > Free

> > > > Androgen

> > > > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > > > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > > > Prog

> > > > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> > > >

> > > > What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in

> > the

> > > > noral range and that although his serum testosterone level

> > looked ok

> > > > his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than

> > estradiol

> > > > was high normal.

> > > >

> > > > I then calculated his free testosterone via the method

employed

> > by

> > > > Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically

flawed.

> > > >

> > > > His free calculated level was low (although this is

theoritical)

> > > >

> > > > I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of

the

> > > > above.

> > > >

> > > > The result was;

> > > >

> > > > Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> > > >

> > > > This would appear very low on the reference range for a young

> > man so

> > > > I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

> > > >

> > > > I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> > > > Revolution.

> > > >

> > > > He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated

it

> > was

> > > > Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

> > > >

> > > > On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an

> > appointment

> > > > with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or

near

> > > > Northern US such as New York.

> > > >

> > > > A) Do you agree with my reasoning

> > > >

> > > > If you do can anyone recomend a good

> > endocrinologist/specialist

> > > > that they have seen personally.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > Chris

> > > >

June 15, 2006

A recap and update:

Two years ago I developed gynecomastia due to applying a potent anti-

androgen topically. Although this incident triggered my

gynecomastia, it was further enforced through my use of finasteride

and topical spironolactone. The former is well known to cause

problems relating to lowering DHT and they are both known to cause

gynecomastia. However, a recent DHT test revealed the following:

DHT: 1704 pmol/L ref- 217-1650 pmol/L

I stopped using finasteride two years ago when I realized that it

was antagonizing my gyne. At the time, I thought that it was the

only culprit. I only recently stopped using topical spironolactone

on April 20, 2006.

Pathology taken in March '05 revealed the following:

FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

Free

Androgen

Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

Prog

Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

----

Although my serum testosterone level looked ok, my SHBG, which binds

testosterone with greater affinity than estradiol, was high normal.

My friend, from this forum then calculated my free

testosterone via the method employed by Schering as opposed to the

FAI (which apparently is diagnostically flawed).

My CT level was low (although this was theoretical).

asked me to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

above.

The result was the following:

Free Testosterone: 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l (10am)

This would appear very low on the reference range for a young man so

offered me a symptomatic testosterone test. He took the one

from Malcom Carruthers book " The Testosterone Revolution " . He told

me that I scored highly on the test, the results of which indicated

it was `Very Likely' that I was testosterone deficient.

In March '06 I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

I still have various symptoms that have not responded to thyroid

medication.

Below are my thyroid tests from May `08:

Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

It was concluded on this board by several knowledgeable hypogonadism

suffers that my relatively high SHBG is at least partially the cause

of my low normal testosterone.

UPDATE:

My most recent pathology (2006 05 23) 7:57am

Free Testosterone 47.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

DHEA-S 3.5 LO 7.6-17.4 umol/l

TSH 0.66 0.35-5.00 miu/l

Anti-TPO <10 Less than 35 iu/ml

Anti-TG <20 Less than 40 iu/ml

Ferritin 50 22-322 ug/l

Progesterone 1.2 0.9-2.9 nmol/l

Estradiol-17 Beta <100 Up to 206 pmol/l ( " Test repeated and

results confirmed " )

Insulin: fasting 25 Up to 210 pmol/l

Total HCG (Oncology) <2 LO Less than 2 iu/l (Ref. range

for non-pregnant adult)

Cortisol: 481 nmol/l

AM: 170-720

---

The doctor I recently saw was firstly concerned about my `elevated'

mercury levels. This really bothered me as this has very little, if

any, to do with my condition.

Then he moved on to discuss my Estradiol from March '05. He wanted

to decrease it with 0.5mg Arimidex twice a week.

He also wanted to increase my synthetic thyroid med from 75mcg to

100mcg. When I asked him how I would know which med is working or

causing which effect, he said I wouldn't know. So I said that I

would feel more comfortable evaluating symptomatic effects of one

med at a time.

He kind of made me feel nervous by talking about all the

supplements/medications I could be adding to the mix right away.

He also talked about adding DGL to help my adrenals.

He also wanted to put me on Dutasteride. Dutasteride is a powerful

5ar-inhibitor that blocks both type 1 & type 2 enzymes. During my

initial consultation with this doctor I mentioned that I can't even

tolerate .04mg of finasteride

Although this doctor is willing to treat me I'm not sure that he is

necessarily choosing the most appropriate medication.

So here is my concern:

Is an aromatase inhibitor really the best treatment based on my

blood work? I don't want Arimidex to lower my Estrogens too much

and make me ill not to mention aggravate my gyne.

Would an SHBG lowering med like Danazol or Mesterolone (Proviron) be

more appropriate in my case? I asked him about Proviron and he said

that it can be used as a future option but Arimidex would probably

lower my SHBG and be all I need.

Thank you all for your input and support!

>

> I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated case and I

> am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for him with

regards

> to making an appointement on the basis of my recommendation.

>

> It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could look/appraise

the

> situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning for forwarding

> him to an endocrinologist.

>

> The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

>

> He has since developed various symptoms that have not responded to

> thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

>

> I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on treatment

as

> I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between the two

conditions.

>

> I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4 levels,

> FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and sometimes

this

> does not adequately result in adequate replacement of freeT3.

>

> His thyroid tests were as follows;

>

> Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

>

> So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as though he

is

> getting adequate treatment for this problem.

>

> He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

>

> FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> Free

> Androgen

> Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> Prog

> Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

>

> What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in the

> noral range and that although his serum testosterone level looked

ok

> his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than estradiol

> was high normal.

>

> I then calculated his free testosterone via the method employed by

> Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically flawed.

>

> His free calculated level was low (although this is theoritical)

>

> I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

> above.

>

> The result was;

>

> Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

>

> This would appear very low on the reference range for a young man

so

> I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

>

> I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> Revolution.

>

> He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated it

was

> Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

>

> On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an appointment

> with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or near

> Northern US such as New York.

>

> A) Do you agree with my reasoning

>

> If you do can anyone recomend a good

endocrinologist/specialist

> that they have seen personally.

>

> Thanks

>

> Chris

>

June 15, 2006

A recap and update:

Two years ago I developed gynecomastia due to applying a potent anti-

androgen topically. Although this incident triggered my

gynecomastia, it was further enforced through my use of finasteride

and topical spironolactone. The former is well known to cause

problems relating to lowering DHT and they are both known to cause

gynecomastia. However, a recent DHT test revealed the following:

DHT: 1704 pmol/L ref- 217-1650 pmol/L

I stopped using finasteride two years ago when I realized that it

was antagonizing my gyne. At the time, I thought that it was the

only culprit. I only recently stopped using topical spironolactone

on April 20, 2006.

Pathology taken in March '05 revealed the following:

FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

Free

Androgen

Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

Prog

Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

----

Although my serum testosterone level looked ok, my SHBG, which binds

testosterone with greater affinity than estradiol, was high normal.

My friend, from this forum then calculated my free

testosterone via the method employed by Schering as opposed to the

FAI (which apparently is diagnostically flawed).

My CT level was low (although this was theoretical).

asked me to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

above.

The result was the following:

Free Testosterone: 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l (10am)

This would appear very low on the reference range for a young man so

offered me a symptomatic testosterone test. He took the one

from Malcom Carruthers book " The Testosterone Revolution " . He told

me that I scored highly on the test, the results of which indicated

it was `Very Likely' that I was testosterone deficient.

In March '06 I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

I still have various symptoms that have not responded to thyroid

medication.

Below are my thyroid tests from May `08:

Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

It was concluded on this board by several knowledgeable hypogonadism

suffers that my relatively high SHBG is at least partially the cause

of my low normal testosterone.

UPDATE:

My most recent pathology (2006 05 23) 7:57am

Free Testosterone 47.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

DHEA-S 3.5 LO 7.6-17.4 umol/l

TSH 0.66 0.35-5.00 miu/l

Anti-TPO <10 Less than 35 iu/ml

Anti-TG <20 Less than 40 iu/ml

Ferritin 50 22-322 ug/l

Progesterone 1.2 0.9-2.9 nmol/l

Estradiol-17 Beta <100 Up to 206 pmol/l ( " Test repeated and

results confirmed " )

Insulin: fasting 25 Up to 210 pmol/l

Total HCG (Oncology) <2 LO Less than 2 iu/l (Ref. range

for non-pregnant adult)

Cortisol: 481 nmol/l

AM: 170-720

---

The doctor I recently saw was firstly concerned about my `elevated'

mercury levels. This really bothered me as this has very little, if

any, to do with my condition.

Then he moved on to discuss my Estradiol from March '05. He wanted

to decrease it with 0.5mg Arimidex twice a week.

He also wanted to increase my synthetic thyroid med from 75mcg to

100mcg. When I asked him how I would know which med is working or

causing which effect, he said I wouldn't know. So I said that I

would feel more comfortable evaluating symptomatic effects of one

med at a time.

He kind of made me feel nervous by talking about all the

supplements/medications I could be adding to the mix right away.

He also talked about adding DGL to help my adrenals.

He also wanted to put me on Dutasteride. Dutasteride is a powerful

5ar-inhibitor that blocks both type 1 & type 2 enzymes. During my

initial consultation with this doctor I mentioned that I can't even

tolerate .04mg of finasteride

Although this doctor is willing to treat me I'm not sure that he is

necessarily choosing the most appropriate medication.

So here is my concern:

Is an aromatase inhibitor really the best treatment based on my

blood work? I don't want Arimidex to lower my Estrogens too much

and make me ill not to mention aggravate my gyne.

Would an SHBG lowering med like Danazol or Mesterolone (Proviron) be

more appropriate in my case? I asked him about Proviron and he said

that it can be used as a future option but Arimidex would probably

lower my SHBG and be all I need.

Thank you all for your input and support!

>

> I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated case and I

> am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for him with

regards

> to making an appointement on the basis of my recommendation.

>

> It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could look/appraise

the

> situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning for forwarding

> him to an endocrinologist.

>

> The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

>

> He has since developed various symptoms that have not responded to

> thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

>

> I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on treatment

as

> I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between the two

conditions.

>

> I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4 levels,

> FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and sometimes

this

> does not adequately result in adequate replacement of freeT3.

>

> His thyroid tests were as follows;

>

> Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

>

> So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as though he

is

> getting adequate treatment for this problem.

>

> He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

>

> FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> Free

> Androgen

> Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> Prog

> Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

>

> What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in the

> noral range and that although his serum testosterone level looked

ok

> his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than estradiol

> was high normal.

>

> I then calculated his free testosterone via the method employed by

> Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically flawed.

>

> His free calculated level was low (although this is theoritical)

>

> I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

> above.

>

> The result was;

>

> Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

>

> This would appear very low on the reference range for a young man

so

> I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

>

> I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> Revolution.

>

> He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated it

was

> Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

>

> On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an appointment

> with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or near

> Northern US such as New York.

>

> A) Do you agree with my reasoning

>

> If you do can anyone recomend a good

endocrinologist/specialist

> that they have seen personally.

>

> Thanks

>

> Chris

>

June 18, 2006

This man has asked for help and posted this twice but his questions

seem to have been missed/gone unanswered. It would be good/helpful

if people could offer their valued opinions. Thanks

> >

> > I have been helping a guy out who has had a complicated case and

I

> > am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for him with

> regards

> > to making an appointement on the basis of my recommendation.

> >

> > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could look/appraise

> the

> > situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning for

forwarding

> > him to an endocrinologist.

> >

> > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> >

> > He has since developed various symptoms that have not responded

to

> > thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> >

> > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since being on treatment

> as

> > I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between the two

> conditions.

> >

> > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and FreeT4 levels,

> > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid and sometimes

> this

> > does not adequately result in adequate replacement of freeT3.

> >

> > His thyroid tests were as follows;

> >

> > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> >

> > So his freeT3 and FreeT4 look good and it would seem as though

he

> is

> > getting adequate treatment for this problem.

> >

> > He had further hormone pathology revealing the following;

> >

> > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > Free

> > Androgen

> > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > Prog

> > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> >

> > What I noted was his LH was a little bit low despite being in

the

> > noral range and that although his serum testosterone level

looked

> ok

> > his SHBG which binds testosterone more selectively than

estradiol

> > was high normal.

> >

> > I then calculated his free testosterone via the method employed

by

> > Schering as opposed to the FAI which is diagnostically flawed.

> >

> > His free calculated level was low (although this is theoritical)

> >

> > I asked him to get a free testosterone test on the basis of the

> > above.

> >

> > The result was;

> >

> > Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> >

> > This would appear very low on the reference range for a young

man

> so

> > I offered him a symptomatic testosterone test.

> >

> > I took the one from Malcom Carruthers book The Testosterone

> > Revolution.

> >

> > He scored highly on the test the results for which indicated it

> was

> > Very Likely that he was testosterone deficient.

> >

> > On the basis of the above I was looking to get him an

appointment

> > with a good endocrinologist/hormone specialist in Canada or near

> > Northern US such as New York.

> >

> > A) Do you agree with my reasoning

> >

> > If you do can anyone recomend a good

> endocrinologist/specialist

> > that they have seen personally.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

June 22, 2006

Here is a much cleaner version of my test results. I also posted

this on the Hypopituitary group:

Updated test results:

Estrogen Metabolism Ratio (urine sample from May 22/06):

Hormone Status Result Range Range Applied

2-hydroxyestrogrn Within range 5.8 1.0-60ng/ml Male: all ages

16-hydroxyestrone Within range 4.4 1.0-60ng/ml Male: all ages

Estrogen Metabolism Ratio (EMR) 1.3 See interpretation

….EMR in males rises with age, increasing from around 0.5 at age 20

to roughly 2.0 at age 55.

Saliva Hormone Test results (May 23/06):

Hormone Status Result Range Range Applied

Estradiol Within Range 3.8 2.0-6.0pg/ml Male estradiol

endogenous

Testosterone High end of range 79 30-85pg/ml Male

testosterone endogenous > 25 yrs

Hormone Status Result Range Range Applied

Cortisol AM Below range 1.0 2.0-11ng/ml Sampled within 1

hour of waking

Cortisol Noon Within range 2.6 1.0-7.0ng/ml Noon cortisol

Cortisol PM Within range 1.2 0.5-3.5ng/ml Sampled prior

to evening meal

Cortisol HS Low end of range 0.4 0.2-2.2ng/ml Bedtime Sample

Recap from previous post:

Blood results (May 23/06):

Hormone Result Range

Free Testosterone 47.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

DHEA-S 3.5 7.6-17.4 umol/l

TSH 0.66 0.35-5.00 miu/l

Anti-TPO <10 Less than 35 iu/ml

Anti-TG <20 Less than 40 iu/ml

Ferritin 50 22-322 ug/l

Progesterone 1.2 0.9-2.9 nmol/l

Estradiol-17 Beta <100 Up to 206 pmol/l ( " Test

repeated and results confirmed " )

Insulin: fasting 25 Up to 210 pmol/l

Total HCG (Oncology) <2 Less than 2 iu/l (Ref.

range for non-pregnant adult)

Cortisol: 481 nmol/l AM: 170-720

Blood results (May `06):

Hormone Result Range

Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

Blood results (April `06):

Hormone Result Range

DHT 1704 217-1650 pmol/L

Free Testosterone 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l (10am)

Blood results (March `05):

Hormone Result Range

FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

FAI: 0.49 0.25-1.00

Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

Prog Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have been helping a guy out who has had a

> > complicated

> > > > case

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > am about to obtain an endocrinologists details for

him

> > > > with

> > > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > > > to making an appointement on the basis of my

> > > > recommendation.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys could

> > > > > > look/appraise

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > situation yourselves and comment upon my reasoning

for

> > > > > > > forwarding

> > > > > > > > > him to an endocrinologist.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > He has since developed various symptoms that have

not

> > > > > > responded

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since

being on

> > > > > > treatment

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between

the

> > two

> > > > > > > > conditions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and

FreeT4

> > > > > levels,

> > > > > > > > > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid

and

> > > > > sometimes

> > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > does not adequately result in adequate replacement

of

> > > > freeT3.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > His thyroid tests were as follows;

>

> === message truncated ===

>

> ---------------------------------

> Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and

30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

>

June 22, 2006

One more result that I missed:

Saliva Hormone Test results (May 23/06):

Hormone Status Result Range Range Applied

DHEAS High end of range 9.6 2.0-11ng/ml Male DHEAS

endogenous

This seems to completely contradict my recent DHEAS blood work:

DHEA-S 3.5 7.6-17.4 umol/l

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have been helping a guy out who has had a

> > > complicated

> > > > > case

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > am about to obtain an endocrinologists details

for

> him

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > > > > to making an appointement on the basis of my

> > > > > recommendation.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It would help us both greatly!!! if you guys

could

> > > > > > > look/appraise

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > situation yourselves and comment upon my

reasoning

> for

> > > > > > > > forwarding

> > > > > > > > > > him to an endocrinologist.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The guy was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > He has since developed various symptoms that

have

> not

> > > > > > > responded

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > thyroid medication including gynecomastia.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I requested a look at his thyroid tests since

> being on

> > > > > > > treatment

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > I knew there was a crossover of symptoms between

> the

> > > two

> > > > > > > > > conditions.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I was particularly interested in his freeT3 and

> FreeT4

> > > > > > levels,

> > > > > > > > > > FreeT3 especially as he was on synthetic thyroid

> and

> > > > > > sometimes

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > does not adequately result in adequate

replacement

> of

> > > > > freeT3.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > His thyroid tests were as follows;

> >

> > === message truncated ===

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US

(and

> 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

> >

June 22, 2006

So if I'm not taking DHEA its normal for the hormone to go

erratically high and low like it shows in my results? I would think

that it would just stay low if not supplementing with DHEA.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > A recap and update:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Two years ago I developed gynecomastia due to

> > applying a

> > > > > > > potent

> > > > > > > > > anti-

> > > > > > > > > > androgen topically. Although this incident

> triggered

> > my

> > > > > > > > > > gynecomastia, it was further enforced through my

> use

> > of

> > > > > > > > > finasteride

> > > > > > > > > > and topical spironolactone. The former is well

> known

> > to

> > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > > problems relating to lowering DHT and they are

both

> > > > known

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > > gynecomastia. However, a recent DHT test

revealed

> the

> > > > > > > following:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DHT: 1704 pmol/L ref- 217-1650 pmol/L

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I stopped using finasteride two years ago when I

> > > > realized

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > was antagonizing my gyne. At the time, I thought

> > that it

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > only culprit. I only recently stopped using

topical

> > > > > > > > > spironolactone

> > > > > > > > > > on April 20, 2006.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Pathology taken in March '05 revealed the

> following:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > > > > > > > > > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > > > > > > > > > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > > > > > > > > > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > > > > > > > > > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > > > > > > > > > Free

> > > > > > > > > > Androgen

> > > > > > > > > > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > > > > > > > > > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > > > > > > > > > Prog

> > > > > > > > > > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Although my serum testosterone level looked ok,

my

> > SHBG,

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > binds

> > > > > > > > > > testosterone with greater affinity than

estradiol,

> > was

> > > > > high

> > > > > > > > > normal.

> > > > > > > > > > My friend, from this forum then

calculated

> my

> > > > free

> > > > > > > > > > testosterone via the method employed by Schering

as

> > > > > opposed

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > FAI (which apparently is diagnostically flawed).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My CT level was low (although this was

> theoretical).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > asked me to get a free testosterone test

on

> the

> > > > > basis

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > above.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The result was the following:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Free Testosterone: 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l (10am)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This would appear very low on the reference

range

> > for a

> > > > > > young

> > > > > > > > man

> > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > offered me a symptomatic testosterone

test.

> He

> > > > took

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > from Malcom Carruthers book " The Testosterone

> > > > Revolution " .

> > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > > told

> > > > > > > > > > me that I scored highly on the test, the results

of

> > > > which

> > > > > > > > > indicated

> > > > > > > > > > it was `Very Likely' that I was testosterone

> > deficient.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In March '06 I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I still have various symptoms that have not

> > responded to

> > > > > > > thyroid

> > > > > > > > > > medication.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Below are my thyroid tests from May `08:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > > > > > > > > > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > > > > > > > > > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It was concluded on this board by several

> > knowledgeable

> > > > > > > > > hypogonadism

> > > > > > > > > > suffers that my relatively high SHBG is at least

> > > > partially

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > > of my low normal testosterone.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > UPDATE:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My most recent pathology (2006 05 23) 7:57am

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Free Testosterone 47.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> > > > > > > > > > DHEA-S 3.5 LO 7.6-17.4 umol/l

> > > > > > > > > > TSH 0.66 0.35-5.00 miu/l

> > > > > > > > > > Anti-TPO <10 Less than 35 iu/ml

> > > > > > > > > > Anti-TG <20 Less than 40 iu/ml

> > > > > > > > > > Ferritin 50 22-322 ug/l

> > > > > > > > > > Progesterone 1.2 0.9-2.9 nmol/l

> > > > > > > > > > Estradiol-17 Beta <100 Up to 206 pmol/l ( " Test

>

> === message truncated ===

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

June 22, 2006

I wouldn't place much weight into the saliva results.

Saliva results in my experience are very often inaccurate at least

when it comes to testosterone and estradiol.

Your blood result showed a low free testosterone and yet this saliva

result indicates a high normal level. Something is radically wrong

there. I think the methodology/reliability of the blood assays is

far better.

I myself had a saliva test about two years ago and according to the

saliva test I had four times the top of the range for testosterone.

However my blood result for both total and free testosterone totally

opposed this finding.

If the day ever comes when hospitals start using saliva assays over

that of blood assays for testosterone and estradiol then I will

start using them. Until that time though when I see results of this

nature, way out just like my own, I will not consider them worthy of

use.

Chris

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > A recap and update:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Two years ago I developed gynecomastia due to

> > > applying a

> > > > > > > > potent

> > > > > > > > > > anti-

> > > > > > > > > > > androgen topically. Although this incident

> > triggered

> > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > gynecomastia, it was further enforced through

my

> > use

> > > of

> > > > > > > > > > finasteride

> > > > > > > > > > > and topical spironolactone. The former is well

> > known

> > > to

> > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > > > problems relating to lowering DHT and they are

> both

> > > > > known

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > > > gynecomastia. However, a recent DHT test

> revealed

> > the

> > > > > > > > following:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DHT: 1704 pmol/L ref- 217-1650 pmol/L

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I stopped using finasteride two years ago when

I

> > > > > realized

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > was antagonizing my gyne. At the time, I

thought

> > > that it

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > only culprit. I only recently stopped using

> topical

> > > > > > > > > > spironolactone

> > > > > > > > > > > on April 20, 2006.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Pathology taken in March '05 revealed the

> > following:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > FSH: 1.3 1-11 IU/L

> > > > > > > > > > > LH: 2.9 1-8 IU/L

> > > > > > > > > > > Prolactin: 8 3-13 ug/L

> > > > > > > > > > > Total Test: 19.0 10-28 nmol/L

> > > > > > > > > > > SHBG: 39 11-52 nmol/L

> > > > > > > > > > > Free

> > > > > > > > > > > Androgen

> > > > > > > > > > > Index: 0.49 0.25-1.00

> > > > > > > > > > > Estradiol: 95 50-218 pmol/L

> > > > > > > > > > > Prog

> > > > > > > > > > > Serum: 2 1-5 nmol/L

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Although my serum testosterone level looked

ok,

> my

> > > SHBG,

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > binds

> > > > > > > > > > > testosterone with greater affinity than

> estradiol,

> > > was

> > > > > > high

> > > > > > > > > > normal.

> > > > > > > > > > > My friend, from this forum then

> calculated

> > my

> > > > > free

> > > > > > > > > > > testosterone via the method employed by

Schering

> as

> > > > > > opposed

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > FAI (which apparently is diagnostically

flawed).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My CT level was low (although this was

> > theoretical).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > asked me to get a free testosterone test

> on

> > the

> > > > > > basis

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > above.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The result was the following:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Free Testosterone: 38.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l (10am)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This would appear very low on the reference

> range

> > > for a

> > > > > > > young

> > > > > > > > > man

> > > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > offered me a symptomatic testosterone

> test.

> > He

> > > > > took

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > from Malcom Carruthers book " The Testosterone

> > > > > Revolution " .

> > > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > > > told

> > > > > > > > > > > me that I scored highly on the test, the

results

> of

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > indicated

> > > > > > > > > > > it was `Very Likely' that I was testosterone

> > > deficient.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In March '06 I was diagnosed with

hypothyroidism.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I still have various symptoms that have not

> > > responded to

> > > > > > > > thyroid

> > > > > > > > > > > medication.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Below are my thyroid tests from May `08:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Free T3 5.0 3.5-6.5 pmol/l

> > > > > > > > > > > Free T4 17 9-23 pmol/l

> > > > > > > > > > > TSH 1.67 0.35-5.00miu/l

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It was concluded on this board by several

> > > knowledgeable

> > > > > > > > > > hypogonadism

> > > > > > > > > > > suffers that my relatively high SHBG is at

least

> > > > > partially

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > > > of my low normal testosterone.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > UPDATE:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My most recent pathology (2006 05 23) 7:57am

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Free Testosterone 47.6 31.0-94.0 pmol/l

> > > > > > > > > > > DHEA-S 3.5 LO 7.6-17.4 umol/l

> > > > > > > > > > > TSH 0.66 0.35-5.00 miu/l

> > > > > > > > > > > Anti-TPO <10 Less than 35 iu/ml

> > > > > > > > > > > Anti-TG <20 Less than 40 iu/ml

> > > > > > > > > > > Ferritin 50 22-322 ug/l

> > > > > > > > > > > Progesterone 1.2 0.9-2.9 nmol/l

> > > > > > > > > > > Estradiol-17 Beta <100 Up to 206 pmol/l ( " Test

> >

> > === message truncated ===

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

> Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

> >

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