Re: Just talked to Dr. about high E2 and SHBG.

[Guest guest]

Phil,

I believe that I may may be in the same boat. I too have very low SHBG. I

find that if I take 0.25 Arimidex for the first three days of a shot cycle of

100 mg per seven days I feel better.

My SHBG is outside of the low end of the lab range. This is maybe why I feel

such a rush upon injection. I have little SHBG to bind to when all of the

new T is introduced. Again, I get all hot, sweaty and foggy about 2-3 hours

after injection. Lately it goes away by 7pm or so if the shot is 10 am.

I feel better since the Arimidex has been part of the treatment and the

morning and night erections are comming on strong. I have only been doing the

Arimidex for the past 3.5 weeks. I will be testing for total T, SHBG, E2 in two

to three weeks.

The question for us maybe is `why is the SHBG so low?` I have read that this

could be a sign of low zinc. My zinc tested fine. The other thing I read is

that low SHBG is frequently a precurser to insuline insensitivity - syndrome

X is quoted alot (the development of Type II diabetes). Also, SHBG is

created in the liver - a sluggish or malfinctioning liver could be the cluprit.

I notice that a couple of beers (Canadian beer, 5% alcohol by volume) makes

me spin pretty easy. Is my liver working well?? Maybe not. Most people my size

205 lbs. can down a few with no great reaction. I have never been able to

drink alot, even as a teen (a blessing in a way).

I am wondering if this low SHBG in my case exists because I was very low on

T for so long.

Louis

[Guest guest]

Phil,

I have never heard anyone say this before.

If this is true it might be the cause of all my problems!!!

My SHBG is abnormally low being 11 or 12 and my E2 is between 34 and 42.

Where has Dr said this?

Chris

>

> Here is a cut & paste on what he told me.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

> Dr. ]Hormone assays should never be run without assessing binding

> globulins. An E2 of 20 is VERY high if SHBG is low.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

> I now feel I know what the problem is my SHBG is 22and lower most

times

> range 7 - 50.

>

> So now I feel I need more Arimidex then what I am doing

> Phil

>

[Guest guest]

he said this today at his new site here is a link to the thread.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/56246-does-arimidex-decrease.html

Phil

chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

Phil,

I have never heard anyone say this before.

If this is true it might be the cause of all my problems!!!

My SHBG is abnormally low being 11 or 12 and my E2 is between 34 and 42.

Where has Dr said this?

Chris

>

> Here is a cut & paste on what he told me.

> ----------------------------------------------------------

> Dr. ]Hormone assays should never be run without assessing binding

> globulins. An E2 of 20 is VERY high if SHBG is low.

> ----------------------------------------------------------

> I now feel I know what the problem is my SHBG is 22and lower most

times

> range 7 - 50.

>

> So now I feel I need more Arimidex then what I am doing

> Phil

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I have read alot of detoxifications these days. The liver is flushed. Also,

people do juice fasts and detoxify. I have never done either. I have fasted

for a day but a longer fast is needed to get effect.

I will be talking to my doc soon on this after I get labs back and see if

total T is up.

I am wondering if my total T will ever get up if I am low on SHBG.

Louis

[Guest guest]

Louis you're right SHBG is made in the liver.

Mine is low and I had two thirds of my liver removed due to liver

cancer, so there might be a connection.

>

> Phil,

>

> I believe that I may may be in the same boat. I too have very low

SHBG. I

> find that if I take 0.25 Arimidex for the first three days of a

shot cycle of

> 100 mg per seven days I feel better.

>

> My SHBG is outside of the low end of the lab range. This is maybe

why I feel

> such a rush upon injection. I have little SHBG to bind to when all

of the

> new T is introduced. Again, I get all hot, sweaty and foggy about 2-

3 hours

> after injection. Lately it goes away by 7pm or so if the shot is 10

am.

>

> I feel better since the Arimidex has been part of the treatment and

the

> morning and night erections are comming on strong. I have only been

doing the

> Arimidex for the past 3.5 weeks. I will be testing for total T,

SHBG, E2 in two

> to three weeks.

>

> The question for us maybe is `why is the SHBG so low?` I have read

that this

> could be a sign of low zinc. My zinc tested fine. The other thing

I read is

> that low SHBG is frequently a precurser to insuline insensitivity -

syndrome

> X is quoted alot (the development of Type II diabetes). Also, SHBG

is

> created in the liver - a sluggish or malfinctioning liver could be

the cluprit.

>

> I notice that a couple of beers (Canadian beer, 5% alcohol by

volume) makes

> me spin pretty easy. Is my liver working well?? Maybe not. Most

people my size

> 205 lbs. can down a few with no great reaction. I have never been

able to

> drink alot, even as a teen (a blessing in a way).

>

> I am wondering if this low SHBG in my case exists because I was

very low on

> T for so long.

>

> Louis

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi louis,

I know for yrs. my Free T levels we always low normal and the Dr.'s would say

we need to bring this up. Then 4 yrs. ago I read about high E2 levels in men

over 40 and high levels for men on TRT tested very high. When I got my E2 down

my Free T went up over the top of the range. My Dr. was happy I was happy SHBG

was not tested to much because of good Free T we knew it was low because Free T

was so high. I have had my E2 down to 9 and still had good wood yet my Dr. did

not like it this low. Now I need to find out it this was my best level because

of lower SHBG.

I have been hot and would not do good on hot days can't take the heat getting

my E2 down helped this a lot. But I still have problems with feeling to hot yet

my body temp is low due to Thyroid problems. There is just so much to all of

this I posted this E2 and SHBG at 4 other boards and guys are comming out of the

wood work posting about this wondering if this is why they have problems. At

Dr. 's site he has not said much more about it but we are going to keep at

him to find out what the best levels are for a given SHBG.

Phil

louislarocque@... wrote:

Phil,

I believe that I may may be in the same boat. I too have very low SHBG. I

find that if I take 0.25 Arimidex for the first three days of a shot cycle of

100 mg per seven days I feel better.

My SHBG is outside of the low end of the lab range. This is maybe why I feel

such a rush upon injection. I have little SHBG to bind to when all of the

new T is introduced. Again, I get all hot, sweaty and foggy about 2-3 hours

after injection. Lately it goes away by 7pm or so if the shot is 10 am.

I feel better since the Arimidex has been part of the treatment and the

morning and night erections are comming on strong. I have only been doing the

Arimidex for the past 3.5 weeks. I will be testing for total T, SHBG, E2 in two

to three weeks.

The question for us maybe is `why is the SHBG so low?` I have read that this

could be a sign of low zinc. My zinc tested fine. The other thing I read is

that low SHBG is frequently a precurser to insuline insensitivity - syndrome

X is quoted alot (the development of Type II diabetes). Also, SHBG is

created in the liver - a sluggish or malfinctioning liver could be the cluprit.

I notice that a couple of beers (Canadian beer, 5% alcohol by volume) makes

me spin pretty easy. Is my liver working well?? Maybe not. Most people my size

205 lbs. can down a few with no great reaction. I have never been able to

drink alot, even as a teen (a blessing in a way).

I am wondering if this low SHBG in my case exists because I was very low on

T for so long.

Louis

[Guest guest]

I'm confused. Are your E2 measurements total E2 or free E2?

After reading the Dr. thread at his site, I concluded that when

he says you have to evaluate T and E2 levels in light of SHBG levels,

he's referring to total T and total E2 lab results, and sorta backing

into what the free levels would be based on SHBG levels.

But if your labwork tests free hormone levels, wouldn't that already

take into account the effects of SHBG? Does Dr. not test for

free hormones? If not, I wonder why.

> >

> > Here is a cut & paste on what he told me.

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > Dr. ]Hormone assays should never be run without assessing

binding

> > globulins. An E2 of 20 is VERY high if SHBG is low.

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > I now feel I know what the problem is my SHBG is 22and lower most

> times

> > range 7 - 50.

> >

> > So now I feel I need more Arimidex then what I am doing

> > Phil

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I never heard of E's measurements in Total or Free labs. Here is a link of

tests.

http://www.keratin.com/ab/ab018.shtml

He tests for bioavailable testosterone this includes free plus weakly bound to

albumin.

Most Dr.'s test Total and Free T but I know of no test for E's like this. I

do know this high SHBG levels bind up Testosterone it is not used so if your E2

is high and your SHBG is high your Free T will be on the low side. E2 and SHBG

complement each other SHBG binds T usless and the brain thinks E2 is T. So when

one takes Arimidex to bring down E2 SHBG comes down with it. Now if you have a

lower SHBG and lower level of E2 can be to much. The question most of us have

is what is the ratio of E2 to SHBG as for levels of E2 to SHBG. I now don't

think there is much out there on this I know Dr. Shippen and Dr. have been

working on new things and I feel this is one of them. Maybe when Shippen's new

book comes out we will know.

I did up my Arimidex yesterday from .5mgs everyother day to eveyday and this

morning I was much better not hot and sweating with loss of wood. But this can

be short lived in days to come I feel at this dose I my go to low in the next 5

days. This will be dam hard to figure out.

Phil

wayback44 <no_reply > wrote:

I'm confused. Are your E2 measurements total E2 or free E2?

After reading the Dr. thread at his site, I concluded that when

he says you have to evaluate T and E2 levels in light of SHBG levels,

he's referring to total T and total E2 lab results, and sorta backing

into what the free levels would be based on SHBG levels.

But if your labwork tests free hormone levels, wouldn't that already

take into account the effects of SHBG? Does Dr. not test for

free hormones? If not, I wonder why.

> >

> > Here is a cut & paste on what he told me.

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > Dr. ]Hormone assays should never be run without assessing

binding

> > globulins. An E2 of 20 is VERY high if SHBG is low.

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > I now feel I know what the problem is my SHBG is 22and lower most

> times

> > range 7 - 50.

> >

> > So now I feel I need more Arimidex then what I am doing

> > Phil

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Wow Phil, I could have written much of the same you did below about myself:

I can't tolerate heat at all...it was 72 yesterday and I was uncomftorably

hot and took my shirt off while others around me were wearing warmer

clothing. My body temp has always been in the 97's, and even on 3 grains of

Armor daily, my body temp flucuates between 98.2 and 98.5 at best, and is

still often only as high as 97.9.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of philip georgian

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 9:26 AM

Subject: Re: Just talked to Dr. about high E2 and SHBG.

Hi louis,

I know for yrs. my Free T levels we always low normal and the Dr.'s would

say we need to bring this up. Then 4 yrs. ago I read about high E2 levels in

men over 40 and high levels for men on TRT tested very high. When I got my

E2 down my Free T went up over the top of the range. My Dr. was happy I was

happy SHBG was not tested to much because of good Free T we knew it was low

because Free T was so high. I have had my E2 down to 9 and still had good

wood yet my Dr. did not like it this low. Now I need to find out it this was

my best level because of lower SHBG.

I have been hot and would not do good on hot days can't take the heat

getting my E2 down helped this a lot. But I still have problems with feeling

to hot yet my body temp is low due to Thyroid problems. There is just so

much to all of this I posted this E2 and SHBG at 4 other boards and guys are

comming out of the wood work posting about this wondering if this is why

they have problems. At Dr. 's site he has not said much more about it

but we are going to keep at him to find out what the best levels are for a

given SHBG.

Phil

louislarocque@ <mailto:louislarocque%40aol.com> aol.com wrote:

Phil,

I believe that I may may be in the same boat. I too have very low SHBG. I

find that if I take 0.25 Arimidex for the first three days of a shot cycle

of

100 mg per seven days I feel better.

My SHBG is outside of the low end of the lab range. This is maybe why I feel

such a rush upon injection. I have little SHBG to bind to when all of the

new T is introduced. Again, I get all hot, sweaty and foggy about 2-3 hours

after injection. Lately it goes away by 7pm or so if the shot is 10 am.

I feel better since the Arimidex has been part of the treatment and the

morning and night erections are comming on strong. I have only been doing

the

Arimidex for the past 3.5 weeks. I will be testing for total T, SHBG, E2 in

two

to three weeks.

The question for us maybe is `why is the SHBG so low?` I have read that this

could be a sign of low zinc. My zinc tested fine. The other thing I read is

that low SHBG is frequently a precurser to insuline insensitivity - syndrome

X is quoted alot (the development of Type II diabetes). Also, SHBG is

created in the liver - a sluggish or malfinctioning liver could be the

cluprit.

I notice that a couple of beers (Canadian beer, 5% alcohol by volume) makes

me spin pretty easy. Is my liver working well?? Maybe not. Most people my

size

205 lbs. can down a few with no great reaction. I have never been able to

drink alot, even as a teen (a blessing in a way).

I am wondering if this low SHBG in my case exists because I was very low on

T for so long.

Louis

[Guest guest]

Phil, I have to run off and read that thread...thanks for posting it here.

Dr has been advocating 24 hour urines over blood labs for quite some

time now. The urines don't measure SHBG, so does that mean he's backing off

the urines....?

I wonder how much my situation has influenced him in this regard. I

insisted on simultaneous bloods and urines last August to see if they

produced similiar readings (I don't trust the urines), and I was curious

what my SHBG was. Dr. agreed, and when the two sets of labs were

matched up, he said it looked like 2 different guys had had the labs done.

I still haven't heard his final interpretation of the lab results, and know

he was conferring with Shippen over my disconnected labs. I am sure I

posted here back when the labs were done, and I will follow up when the

verdict is in.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Philip Georgian

Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:07 AM

Subject: Just talked to Dr. about high E2 and SHBG.

Here is a cut & paste on what he told me.

----------------------------------------------------------

Dr. ]Hormone assays should never be run without assessing binding

globulins. An E2 of 20 is VERY high if SHBG is low.

----------------------------------------------------------

I now feel I know what the problem is my SHBG is 22and lower most times

range 7 - 50.

So now I feel I need more Arimidex then what I am doing

Phil

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Yes, I did see the thread of discussion at the other site on low SHBG, very

interesting.

Personally, the plan is to check the liver for function. My TSH was checked

and found to be 4.4 (max range of 5.0), the doc does not think this is

hypothyroidism.

I did notice upon yesterday`s injection that I did not get hot and fuzzy

afterwards. I injected later at about 20:00 hrs as opposed to the early morning

injection where I was always hot and fuzzy afterwards. Maybe this has

sometning to do with high morning T levels that go over the top after an

injection.

The injection was a bit smaller 80 mg of test-enanthate only because I thought

the injection was done (pushing hard).

I will try this again and take note.

Louis

[Guest guest]

Here is a link to the thread if you did not find it. I feel we are about to

find out all kinds of new things about TRT when Dr. Shippens new book comes out.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/56246-does-arimidex-decrease-2.ht\

ml

Phil

Dave <groups@...> wrote:

Phil, I have to run off and read that thread...thanks for posting it

here.

Dr has been advocating 24 hour urines over blood labs for quite some

time now. The urines don't measure SHBG, so does that mean he's backing off

the urines....?

I wonder how much my situation has influenced him in this regard. I

insisted on simultaneous bloods and urines last August to see if they

produced similiar readings (I don't trust the urines), and I was curious

what my SHBG was. Dr. agreed, and when the two sets of labs were

matched up, he said it looked like 2 different guys had had the labs done.

I still haven't heard his final interpretation of the lab results, and know

he was conferring with Shippen over my disconnected labs. I am sure I

posted here back when the labs were done, and I will follow up when the

verdict is in.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Philip Georgian

Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:07 AM

Subject: Just talked to Dr. about high E2 and SHBG.

Here is a cut & paste on what he told me.

----------------------------------------------------------

Dr. ]Hormone assays should never be run without assessing binding

globulins. An E2 of 20 is VERY high if SHBG is low.

----------------------------------------------------------

I now feel I know what the problem is my SHBG is 22and lower most times

range 7 - 50.

So now I feel I need more Arimidex then what I am doing

Phil

[Guest guest]

A TSH that high is a low thyroid you need to test TSH and Free T4 and Free T3 to

tell. The hot feeling goes away after you get your levels up. Best to do

shots in the morning if I do them at night I can't sleep.

Phil

louislarocque@... wrote:

Phil,

Yes, I did see the thread of discussion at the other site on low SHBG, very

interesting.

Personally, the plan is to check the liver for function. My TSH was checked

and found to be 4.4 (max range of 5.0), the doc does not think this is

hypothyroidism.

I did notice upon yesterday`s injection that I did not get hot and fuzzy

afterwards. I injected later at about 20:00 hrs as opposed to the early morning

injection where I was always hot and fuzzy afterwards. Maybe this has

sometning to do with high morning T levels that go over the top after an

injection.

The injection was a bit smaller 80 mg of test-enanthate only because I thought

the injection was done (pushing hard).

I will try this again and take note.

Louis

[Guest guest]

Phil,

I rechecked my TSH test levels and they were 4.22 MIU/L not quite 4.4. I

have read that the normal level has been topped off at around 3. Maybe my doc is

not aware.

Is this still considered high? If so I will get the TSH, T4 and Free T3 to

be sure. I get pains in the joints for the smallest of activities which is a

symptom of hypothyroidism as I have read. The Testosterone has helped in alot

of ways but I am still very physically limited.

Louis

[Guest guest]

I am told a TSH over 2 can mean a problem do retest doing Free T4 and Free T3 go

to this link and read the site has all the info you need.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Phil

louislarocque@... wrote:

Phil,

I rechecked my TSH test levels and they were 4.22 MIU/L not quite 4.4. I

have read that the normal level has been topped off at around 3. Maybe my doc is

not aware.

Is this still considered high? If so I will get the TSH, T4 and Free T3 to

be sure. I get pains in the joints for the smallest of activities which is a

symptom of hypothyroidism as I have read. The Testosterone has helped in alot

of ways but I am still very physically limited.

Louis

[Guest guest]

Check this link:

http://thyroid.about.com/od/gettestedanddiagnosed/a/tshtestwars.htm

TSH is very controversial. 4.4, by almost any one up to date on the TSH

debate is too high. A few years ago, the ACE guidelines were changed to 0.3

to 3.0 as being normal, though most thyroid patients in the support groups I

read would say they feel best when it's around 1.0.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of philip georgian

Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 3:21 PM

Subject: Re: Just talked to Dr. about high E2 and SHBG.

I am told a TSH over 2 can mean a problem do retest doing Free T4 and Free

T3 go to this link and read the site has all the info you need.

http://www.stopthet <http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/>

hyroidmadness.com/

Phil

louislarocque@ <mailto:louislarocque%40aol.com> aol.com wrote:

Phil,

I rechecked my TSH test levels and they were 4.22 MIU/L not quite 4.4. I

have read that the normal level has been topped off at around 3. Maybe my

doc is

not aware.

Is this still considered high? If so I will get the TSH, T4 and Free T3 to

be sure. I get pains in the joints for the smallest of activities which is a

symptom of hypothyroidism as I have read. The Testosterone has helped in

alot

of ways but I am still very physically limited.

Louis