Guest guest Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Nice post sbryant511. Each specialist in Endocrine will more or less, have different view points toward the role of DHT. I think too much DHT, just like T, will cause health concerns and thus, disorders. Body Builders abuse, because they inject elements we need while they are balanced with DHT and T. I think, DHT and T work differently, but both elements need each other. It's situations where healthy males with normal levels of hormone produce smaller gentialia, etc. Doctors cannot explain once given a full blood work out toward a male within that situation. I think given DHT handles many external complexes of men, DHT was and is the hormone that is lacking and not T. Is DHT considered a hormone or just an enriched version of T that isn't clear yet? I also believe if T is lacking so will DHT. With a combination of DHT and T, perhaps that can do wonders, but unfortunately, in primary males it may only provide a limited role, because I don't feel DHT can correct testes failure. But I do think DHT needs to be reserched further. Primary hypgonadism is rare, but hypogonadism of some kind with older males isn't. A primary cause of secondary Hypo. could be lack of DHT which made the normal level of testosterone lessen as well. Who knows until researched. Could be a cure for ED. sbryant511 <sbryant511@...> wrote: I too have felt that DHT gets a bad rap in the press. I have heard of several stories where men have been given proscar to treat BPH when the real culprit was excess E2. Also, many men who end up taking proscar and similar BPH drugs end with ED issuse. DHT can be problematic in two ways. One is the lack of the enzyme that produces DHT from T, and second is some thing that i just read about recently and from what i understand it is due to a defect in the DHT receptor. In Europe they use Andractim Gel to treat Hypo. It is androstanalone gel, and the real bonus here is that androstanalone does not aromatise. Andractim is also used to treat BPH due to High E. DHT is a much stronger androgen than is plain T, and i think it has a higher affinity for the releveant T receptors as well. In Shippen's book he talks about applying T cream to the scrotum as that area is rich in DHT receptors and the enzymes to produce DHT from T. The body builders understand the role of DHT. They use a drug called proviron which is a sythetic hormone very similar to DHT. Some men mix proviron with viagra to rev up their libido and to give their body some " high octane " T for sexual activites. From what i have read and experienced, the male body needs a certain amount of DHT to function properly. my .02 SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 I was wondering if I should post something on here regarding DHT myself...it's been a while since i posted. My HypoG symptoms/issues stem from my 8 yrs of Finasteride use (propecia for thinning hair). well, i have since tried TRT twice with no success...got my T levels higher (via injections) yet felt no difference...yes my E2 shot up but I never even felt good for a few days prior to the aromtasing effect. While I tried TRT gel i felt crappy the whole 10 days I took it..but after quitting I felt the best I have ever felt..and my DHT was over the max range 800 rr 100-500. Its said that TRT gel converts to DHT quicker than TRT shots. I should have my DHT levels back this week to see what it's like off any TRT..if low I will be doing the Proviron as well. I also have High Total Estrogens...even though my E2 and Estriol is optimal range. I know High Total Es are not talked about...but no one has ever explained why. Read up on Mesterlone (DHT Deravitive)..its used in Europe for hypogonadism, infertility, and Androgen deficiency. Jack sbryant511 <sbryant511@...> wrote: I too have felt that DHT gets a bad rap in the press. I have heard of several stories where men have been given proscar to treat BPH when the real culprit was excess E2. Also, many men who end up taking proscar and similar BPH drugs end with ED issuse. DHT can be problematic in two ways. One is the lack of the enzyme that produces DHT from T, and second is some thing that i just read about recently and from what i understand it is due to a defect in the DHT receptor. In Europe they use Andractim Gel to treat Hypo. It is androstanalone gel, and the real bonus here is that androstanalone does not aromatise. Andractim is also used to treat BPH due to High E. DHT is a much stronger androgen than is plain T, and i think it has a higher affinity for the releveant T receptors as well. In Shippen's book he talks about applying T cream to the scrotum as that area is rich in DHT receptors and the enzymes to produce DHT from T. The body builders understand the role of DHT. They use a drug called proviron which is a sythetic hormone very similar to DHT. Some men mix proviron with viagra to rev up their libido and to give their body some " high octane " T for sexual activites. From what i have read and experienced, the male body needs a certain amount of DHT to function properly. my .02 SB --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:09:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Nice post sbryant511. Each specialist in Endocrine will more or less, have different view points toward the role of DHT. I think too much DHT, just like T, will cause health concerns and thus, disorders. Body Builders abuse, because they inject elements we need while they are balanced with DHT and T. > >I think, DHT and T work differently, but both elements need each other. >It's situations where healthy males with normal levels of hormone produce smaller gentialia, etc. Doctors cannot explain once given a full blood work out toward a male within that situation. I think given DHT handles many external complexes of men, DHT was and is the hormone that is lacking and not T. > >Is DHT considered a hormone or just an enriched version of T that isn't clear yet? > >I also believe if T is lacking so will DHT. With a combination of DHT and T, perhaps that can do wonders, but unfortunately, in primary males it may only provide a limited role, because I don't feel DHT can correct testes failure. > >But I do think DHT needs to be reserched further. Primary hypgonadism is rare, but hypogonadism of some kind with older males isn't. A primary cause of secondary Hypo. could be lack of DHT which made the normal level of testosterone lessen as well. Who knows until researched. Could be a cure for ED. I'm finding research that looks at DHT/T ratios as important. High DHT also has long been said to increase baldness and is suspected in prostate issues (though more recent research seems to be implicating E2 more in prostate problems). ________________ " You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an argument for it. " Noam Chomsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Some discussion on DHT/T ratios http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=8\ 672990 & dopt=Abstract My recollection is T has two routes to metabolize. One through E2 the other through DHT. It would seem if E2 is high DHT will be lower and vice versa. It be interesting to know how much of low DHT issues are actually tied to higher E2 levels, and vice versa. ________________ " You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an argument for it. " Noam Chomsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 > My recollection is T has two routes to metabolize. One through E2 the > other through DHT. It would seem if E2 is high DHT will be lower and > vice versa. It be interesting to know how much of low DHT issues are > actually tied to higher E2 levels, and vice versa. > http://www.endotext.com/male/male2/maleframe2.htm If you read the " metabolism " section, your understanding will be enhanced. The graphic " Figure 2 " displayed later in the article is easier to read. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:11:45 -0000, you wrote: > > >> My recollection is T has two routes to metabolize. One through E2 the >> other through DHT. It would seem if E2 is high DHT will be lower and >> vice versa. It be interesting to know how much of low DHT issues are >> actually tied to higher E2 levels, and vice versa. >> > >http://www.endotext.com/male/male2/maleframe2.htm > >If you read the " metabolism " section, your understanding will be enhanced. > >The graphic " Figure 2 " displayed later in the article is easier to read. > > >Brad > A very nice resource. Thanks. ________________ " You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an argument for it. " Noam Chomsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Given, the research isn't finalize on the functions of DHT, I won't conclude the high E connection yet. I rather focus on DHT as a valid cure of PE, abnormal sexual characteristics, etc. Geesh, haven't we concluded that low T will bring on excessive E2? Why, are we now comparing DHT, which many Endo's still don't understand toward E2? The average male that is suffering from some form of hypogonadism which includes high E, doesn't know about DHT as a valid factor, nor is the correct research out. All I get on the net is more crap about baldness from DHT, of course, why DHT causes baldness is still un known thus, no valid cure just " potentials " , causing the self conscience male billions per year globally. I'm not sure DHT alone causes baldness. If it did, does that mean DHT is lacking? If so, wouldn't it be research on the side effects of low DHT, which is still unkown in full? Are side effecs of low DHT, like low T? Understand? There isn't enough research to conclude if high E and low T are connected, nor side effects, nor why males and females lose their hair but all blood test show no abnormal-ness. Perhaps gentlemen, we should wait a bit for more research to see if DHT is a primary player in hypogonadism of all varies, before the ugly friend high E (which is treatable and highly researched), asks for another date? Making assumptions won't solve the current problems of hypogonadism and what that diease creates. Perhaps, we should make a commerical, like Mr. Micheal J Fox, on the side effects of primary and secondary hypogonadism... Stem Cell research can be replaced with more research that directly effects the research hypo. needs, to better educated qualitied specialist and give us more options rather than to only provide a mirror and not what the body needs to reapply functioning areas or for some like me, to just correct non functioning areas. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:53:31 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Geesh, haven't we concluded that low T will bring on >excessive E2? Actually no. High E2 can cause a drop in T. However very low T levels for other reasons lead to low E2 as in males the source of E2 is conversion from T. ________________ " You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an argument for it. " Noam Chomsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:53:31 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Perhaps, we should make a commerical, like Mr. Micheal >J Fox, on the side effects of primary and secondary >hypogonadism... Maybe " Woody " Harelson can be the spokesman? ________________ " You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an argument for it. " Noam Chomsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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