Re: Peak and Valley on T-Cyp

October 25, 2006

Your labs show exactly injections on a 14 day cycle just aren't the right

thing to do.

7 day cycle is standard, though a few of us have gonie to every 3 days with

the doc's approval.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of williamb11

Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:26 PM

Subject: Peak and Valley on T-Cyp

Friends,

I was wondering if anyone gets blood drawn on day 7 and 14 of 200 T-

Cyp?

My recent results were 750 on Day 7 and 270 on Day 14, although 270

did not feel very low - as it usually does to me.

Still no libido benefits, but my doc. said it could take 3 months

before noticing (only on 1 months) - is this true?

I'm just curious what others see for their T graph...

Blessings,

Bill

October 25, 2006

Did a low dose (20mg) every 3 days frequency and it shot up my DHT to

991 (range 36-573). It seems to me that low dose/high freqeuncy T-Cyp

injections has the potential for DHT elevation as in the case with

gels. I now have symptoms of early BHP and my primary care doc put me

on Avodart and Cardura. Had to suspend my TRT which puts me back to

my normal level of Total T in the mid 400s. But I miss the

" well-being " feel brought about by the T-Cyp injections (Total T in

the high 700s). I am 67 y.o.

Taddeo

>

> Your labs show exactly injections on a 14 day cycle just aren't the

right

> thing to do.

>

> 7 day cycle is standard, though a few of us have gonie to every 3

days with

> the doc's approval.

>

> _____

>

> From:

[mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of williamb11

> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:26 PM

>

> Subject: Peak and Valley on T-Cyp

>

> Friends,

>

> I was wondering if anyone gets blood drawn on day 7 and 14 of 200 T-

> Cyp?

>

> My recent results were 750 on Day 7 and 270 on Day 14, although 270

> did not feel very low - as it usually does to me.

>

> Still no libido benefits, but my doc. said it could take 3 months

> before noticing (only on 1 months) - is this true?

>

> I'm just curious what others see for their T graph...

>

> Blessings,

> Bill

>

October 25, 2006

The dose was 20mg?? As in, if you're using a T.cyp concentration of

200mg/ml, that would be 0.1ml? Somethings wrong somewhere. I think a

volume of 0.1cc is whats left in a needle after injection, say a 21G

or 23G. I can't see how such a small amount would make that kind of

difference, even injecting every three days.

Rich

> >

> > Your labs show exactly injections on a 14 day cycle just aren't

the

> right

> > thing to do.

> >

> > 7 day cycle is standard, though a few of us have gonie to every 3

> days with

> > the doc's approval.

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> [mailto: ]

> > On Behalf Of williamb11

> > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:26 PM

> >

> > Subject: Peak and Valley on T-Cyp

> >

> > Friends,

> >

> > I was wondering if anyone gets blood drawn on day 7 and 14 of 200

T-

> > Cyp?

> >

> > My recent results were 750 on Day 7 and 270 on Day 14, although

270

> > did not feel very low - as it usually does to me.

> >

> > Still no libido benefits, but my doc. said it could take 3 months

> > before noticing (only on 1 months) - is this true?

> >

> > I'm just curious what others see for their T graph...

> >

> > Blessings,

> > Bill

> >

October 25, 2006

That's correct. One tenth of a cc or 0.10ml. I use a microdosing

Luer-Lok syringe (BD309628) with 20G1 Needle (BD305175) to draw the

T-Cyp and then switch to a 25G5/8 Needle (BD305122) to inject.

Go to http://tinyurl.com/nqnsk and use the magnifying tool.

Before I switched to the 3-day frequency, I was injecting 0.5ml or 100

mg every two weeks. Nevertheless, that " half normal dose " brought

my total T levels in the high 700s. Mind you, my case is really not at

the bottom end of hypogonadism. At mid 400s total T without T-Cyp, I

still get minimal libido and occasional morning wood. But then as I

have said, I miss the " well-being " feeling with T levels at the high 700s.

Taddeo

> > >

> > > Your labs show exactly injections on a 14 day cycle just aren't

> the

> > right

> > > thing to do.

> > >

> > > 7 day cycle is standard, though a few of us have gonie to every 3

> > days with

> > > the doc's approval.

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From:

> > [mailto: ]

> > > On Behalf Of williamb11

> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:26 PM

> > >

> > > Subject: Peak and Valley on T-Cyp

> > >

> > > Friends,

> > >

> > > I was wondering if anyone gets blood drawn on day 7 and 14 of 200

> T-

> > > Cyp?

> > >

> > > My recent results were 750 on Day 7 and 270 on Day 14, although

> 270

> > > did not feel very low - as it usually does to me.

> > >

> > > Still no libido benefits, but my doc. said it could take 3 months

> > > before noticing (only on 1 months) - is this true?

> > >

> > > I'm just curious what others see for their T graph...

> > >

> > > Blessings,

> > > Bill

> > >

October 25, 2006

I still don't understand why you think 14 day cycle is better than 7. Your

tests show that the range of levels is way to wide on 14 days.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Taddeo Tatsulok

Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:55 PM

Subject: Re: Peak and Valley on T-Cyp

That's correct. One tenth of a cc or 0.10ml. I use a microdosing

Luer-Lok syringe (BD309628) with 20G1 Needle (BD305175) to draw the

T-Cyp and then switch to a 25G5/8 Needle (BD305122) to inject.

Go to http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/nqnsk> com/nqnsk and use the

magnifying tool.

Before I switched to the 3-day frequency, I was injecting 0.5ml or 100

mg every two weeks. Nevertheless, that " half normal dose " brought

my total T levels in the high 700s. Mind you, my case is really not at

the bottom end of hypogonadism. At mid 400s total T without T-Cyp, I

still get minimal libido and occasional morning wood. But then as I

have said, I miss the " well-being " feeling with T levels at the high 700s.

Taddeo

> > >

> > > Your labs show exactly injections on a 14 day cycle just aren't

> the

> > right

> > > thing to do.

> > >

> > > 7 day cycle is standard, though a few of us have gonie to every 3

> > days with

> > > the doc's approval.

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: @ <mailto: %40>

> > [mailto: @ <mailto: %40>

]

> > > On Behalf Of williamb11

> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:26 PM

> > > @ <mailto: %40>

> > > Subject: Peak and Valley on T-Cyp

> > >

> > > Friends,

> > >

> > > I was wondering if anyone gets blood drawn on day 7 and 14 of 200

> T-

> > > Cyp?

> > >

> > > My recent results were 750 on Day 7 and 270 on Day 14, although

> 270

> > > did not feel very low - as it usually does to me.

> > >

> > > Still no libido benefits, but my doc. said it could take 3 months

> > > before noticing (only on 1 months) - is this true?

> > >

> > > I'm just curious what others see for their T graph...

> > >

> > > Blessings,

> > > Bill

> > >

October 25, 2006

Amazing...and somewhat perplexing. Its as if every bit of that small

dose is being converted to DHT. I can see getting levels like that

with your 100mg dosing, there you would get a pretty good peak, but

the idea of low dose/3days as I understand it is to even out the

peaks and valleys. The valley levels come up but also the peak levels

come down. How much of a peak can you get from 20mg? I was going to

ask what day you had the blood draw, but that really shouldn't matter

much since a 3-day regimen should be a steady state level on any

given day. And the entire steady state level of 20mg should be -low-

all the way through, not up to a near 1000 range DHT. Stuff like this

keeps the subject of TRT " interesting " , lol.

The rest of your situation is practically identical to mine. My

original T levels before TRT were also in the mid-400s. TRT in my

case was one option for treating ED which was caused by type II

diabetes and a variety of pills practically guarenteed to cause ED.

After the usual Viagra route, etc. my uro believed that my symptoms

and T numbers were low enough to warrent trying TRT. I'm 61yr and

also have a somewhat enlarged prostate (comes with the territory, I

guess) but I had that before I started TRT and it hasn't changed much

if at all.

I haven't tried Avodart but I did try Hytrin, I believe they're both

alpha blockers. Got a roaring splitting headache from the stuff. I

suspect I get the same reaction from any alpha blocker. Flomax is

probably the best but it'll catch up with me in a day or two.

I really don't want to get off TRT either. I keep trying to lower the

dose as much as possible, but I'd like to mention that your bit of

information in your post is -not- encouraging, lol.

Rich

> > > >

> > > > Your labs show exactly injections on a 14 day cycle just

aren't

> > the

> > > right

> > > > thing to do.

> > > >

> > > > 7 day cycle is standard, though a few of us have gonie to

every 3

> > > days with

> > > > the doc's approval.

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > From:

> > > [mailto: ]

> > > > On Behalf Of williamb11

> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:26 PM

> > > >

> > > > Subject: Peak and Valley on T-Cyp

> > > >

> > > > Friends,

> > > >

> > > > I was wondering if anyone gets blood drawn on day 7 and 14 of

200

> > T-

> > > > Cyp?

> > > >

> > > > My recent results were 750 on Day 7 and 270 on Day 14,

although

> > 270

> > > > did not feel very low - as it usually does to me.

> > > >

> > > > Still no libido benefits, but my doc. said it could take 3

months

> > > > before noticing (only on 1 months) - is this true?

> > > >

> > > > I'm just curious what others see for their T graph...

> > > >

> > > > Blessings,

> > > > Bill

> > > >

October 25, 2006

Aloha All!

WOW! It has to have been at least 2 months since I last posted here.

I'm happy to se some familiar names and lots of brand new members.

Well, actually, I'm happy for the board helping so many, yet, unhappy

that so many NEED to seek support for this condition.

I'd like to get back to 's original post about levels at

individual weeks. I get an injection (yes, I STILL go to the clinic

and have a cute nurse do it in my bare bottom!-LOL!) every THREE

weeks of cypo-t because my levels don't drop fast enough to warrant

every other week injections. Seven days after my ONE ML of

200ng/ml " T " is VERY HIGH: From 1300's to 1500's. At FOURTEEN days:

it's at 700's to 900's at 21 days it's below 500, usually about 300

or 250 (which is still better than my original Total " T " of 84!!!!!)

I would prefer to have the doc go by how I feel than by the numbers

becase after 14 days, not only do I notice a drop in my libido, but

since I've been taking high doses of opiates for over 6 years for

failed spine surgeries ( 3 of them between 1997-2000), my pain levels

go up and I have to take more pain meds which leads to being more

drowsy by 3PM and then I take Dexadrine which offsets the SSRI I take

for depression (celexa) and loads my brain with dopamine which makes

me hornier than a March Hare for about SIX HOURS! LOL! But by bedtime

I need to take valiums to sleep, (I know, this is a bad, bad way to

live)sometimes they work, sometimes they don't and I'll sleep for 3

hours and get up.

My wife then wonders why I'm up and I tell her and she knows I'm

fighting all sorts of biological battles with pain, depression and

the meds I take. I take about TEN different ones for high blood

pressure and cholesterol, to pain and depression to swelling of my

feet and ankles!!! And a specialist couldn't figure out why I have

pain in my head...not headache pain, more of a low volume sharp pain

on the right side just above my temple going back to just above my

neck tendon....it drives me NUTS!!!

I know I'm a walking pharmacy, but hey, I've got GREAT insurance and

I may as well use it while I've got it. It does cover my " T " also,

but not like the rest of my meds. There is a $100 deductible and then

I pay 20%...well, gee...when I go through 2 vials a YEAR, I pay over

$160 out of pocket all totalled. Maybe that isn't so bad after

reading some of the other posts, eh?

It's great seeing some of you all again!

Aloha Just For Now,

Hawaiian Wayne

> > > > >

> > > > > Your labs show exactly injections on a 14 day cycle just

> aren't

> > > the

> > > > right

> > > > > thing to do.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7 day cycle is standard, though a few of us have gonie to

> every 3

> > > > days with

> > > > > the doc's approval.

> > > > >

> > > > > _____

> > > > >

> > > > > From:

> > > > [mailto: ]

> > > > > On Behalf Of williamb11

> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:26 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > Subject: Peak and Valley on T-Cyp

> > > > >

> > > > > Friends,

> > > > >

> > > > > I was wondering if anyone gets blood drawn on day 7 and 14

of

> 200

> > > T-

> > > > > Cyp?

> > > > >

> > > > > My recent results were 750 on Day 7 and 270 on Day 14,

> although

> > > 270

> > > > > did not feel very low - as it usually does to me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Still no libido benefits, but my doc. said it could take 3

> months

> > > > > before noticing (only on 1 months) - is this true?

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm just curious what others see for their T graph...

> > > > >

> > > > > Blessings,

> > > > > Bill

> > > > >

October 25, 2006

Aloha Wayne-

Lemme get this straight...a nurse shoots a full ml of depoT in your

butt and a -week- later, your T levels manage to come down to 1300-

1500, right. At first I figured Wayne has become a lunatic. But on

second thought, you're really only getting into the body-builder

range. In fact, in some BB circles you'd probably be a piker, lol. I

remember reading once at the Meso-RX forum, in the body-building

section, they'd talk about how much " juice " you could pump into a

buttock cheek and I think the max was 2 or 3 ml, and about 1ml in

each thigh. How they survive that, I have no idea. For the kind of

pain you're talking about, though, at least the depoT can give you

some relief on par with the opiates. Hell it helps build muscle,

which the opiates won't do.

Between the Dexedrine and the Depo-T I can see where you have trouble

getting to sleep. The water retention in the feet and ankles is also

a problem reported with high doses of T. I think the BBs use

diuretics for it or maybe you have to manage the estradiol, I forget

(I hate to ask what your E2 number is at.) Also that amount of T is

not going to exactly help your blood pressure a whole lot. And

actually I should just shut the hell up because I'm sure that

whatever you haven't figured out, your doctor has. Sorry.

Anyway there are at least two things I can empathize with: I can only

get about 3-4 hrs sleep at a stretch myself despite the Ambien; and

I'm not quite the walking pharmacy that you are but I jokingly

regard " breakfast " as a handfull of pills, lol.

Take care of yourself, huh?

Rich

>

> Aloha All!

>

> WOW! It has to have been at least 2 months since I last posted

here.

> I'm happy to se some familiar names and lots of brand new members.

> Well, actually, I'm happy for the board helping so many, yet,

unhappy

> that so many NEED to seek support for this condition.

>

> I'd like to get back to 's original post about levels at

> individual weeks. I get an injection (yes, I STILL go to the clinic

> and have a cute nurse do it in my bare bottom!-LOL!) every THREE

> weeks of cypo-t because my levels don't drop fast enough to warrant

> every other week injections. Seven days after my ONE ML of

> 200ng/ml " T " is VERY HIGH: From 1300's to 1500's. At FOURTEEN days:

> it's at 700's to 900's at 21 days it's below 500, usually about 300

> or 250 (which is still better than my original Total " T " of 84!!!!!)

>

> I would prefer to have the doc go by how I feel than by the numbers

> becase after 14 days, not only do I notice a drop in my libido, but

> since I've been taking high doses of opiates for over 6 years for

> failed spine surgeries ( 3 of them between 1997-2000), my pain

levels

> go up and I have to take more pain meds which leads to being more

> drowsy by 3PM and then I take Dexadrine which offsets the SSRI I

take

> for depression (celexa) and loads my brain with dopamine which

makes

> me hornier than a March Hare for about SIX HOURS! LOL! But by

bedtime

> I need to take valiums to sleep, (I know, this is a bad, bad way to

> live)sometimes they work, sometimes they don't and I'll sleep for 3

> hours and get up.

>

> My wife then wonders why I'm up and I tell her and she knows I'm

> fighting all sorts of biological battles with pain, depression and

> the meds I take. I take about TEN different ones for high blood

> pressure and cholesterol, to pain and depression to swelling of my

> feet and ankles!!! And a specialist couldn't figure out why I have

> pain in my head...not headache pain, more of a low volume sharp

pain

> on the right side just above my temple going back to just above my

> neck tendon....it drives me NUTS!!!

>

> I know I'm a walking pharmacy, but hey, I've got GREAT insurance

and

> I may as well use it while I've got it. It does cover my " T " also,

> but not like the rest of my meds. There is a $100 deductible and

then

> I pay 20%...well, gee...when I go through 2 vials a YEAR, I pay

over

> $160 out of pocket all totalled. Maybe that isn't so bad after

> reading some of the other posts, eh?

>

> It's great seeing some of you all again!

>

> Aloha Just For Now,

> Hawaiian Wayne

>

October 26, 2006

Hytrin, Flomax and Cardura are all alpha blockers which relaxes

certain muscles and blood vessels that help relieve the symptoms of

BPH and lowers blood pressure.

See: http://health./ency/healthwise/hw59707

I like Cardura better since it comes in generic and tablet form and is

easier to cut in half. Alpha blockers does not cure BPH, so when you

stop taking them your symptoms reappears.

Avodart is in a different league. It is an inhibitor of 5-alpha

reductase, the enzyme responsible for the production of DHT.

Literatures and ads claim that it can shrink BPH but relief from

symptoms could be attained 3 to 6 months. You can take

Avodart in tandem with an alpha blocker but you can't take two

different brands of alpha blockers at the same time. That could be

dangerous. Avodart is similar to finasteride but is claimed to be

more potent. I may be wrong. Just do a google on it and find out for

yourself.

Taddeo

> > > > >

> > > > > Your labs show exactly injections on a 14 day cycle just

> aren't

> > > the

> > > > right

> > > > > thing to do.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7 day cycle is standard, though a few of us have gonie to

> every 3

> > > > days with

> > > > > the doc's approval.

> > > > >

> > > > > _____

> > > > >

> > > > > From:

> > > > [mailto: ]

> > > > > On Behalf Of williamb11

> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:26 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > Subject: Peak and Valley on T-Cyp

> > > > >

> > > > > Friends,

> > > > >

> > > > > I was wondering if anyone gets blood drawn on day 7 and 14 of

> 200

> > > T-

> > > > > Cyp?

> > > > >

> > > > > My recent results were 750 on Day 7 and 270 on Day 14,

> although

> > > 270

> > > > > did not feel very low - as it usually does to me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Still no libido benefits, but my doc. said it could take 3

> months

> > > > > before noticing (only on 1 months) - is this true?

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm just curious what others see for their T graph...

> > > > >

> > > > > Blessings,

> > > > > Bill

> > > > >

October 28, 2006

Aloha Rich!

Your first sentence is what I'm responding to but I also want to

thank you for sharing with me the " breakfast " statement too. I

usually don't even EAT breakfast with hopes that it will help the

meds work faster (I've been taking such a high dose of opiates for 6

years, I MUST have an IRON stomach by now!!). But I'm truly sorry to

hear that there is another person who is in the same shape as I am. I

wouldn't wish this condition and what it does to my bodies chemistry

and thinking on anything BUT my worst enemies!!! Ha-ha!

Yes! It's the standard dose, isn't it? I get 1 ml of depo t

testosterone every three weeks. That's 200mgs per ONE ml....not out

of normal range! In fact, I just had one last Thursday (the 26th) and

a new nurse (rather, a nurse that had never given me the injection

before and didn't know that " T " is THICK because mine is in sesame

oil) and shot it in so fast that I think a full THIRD came back out

and onto the bandaid she put on (which I had to ask for!!!).

I'll NEVER let her give me another injection again. There are TWO

other nurses at that clinic that KNOW HOW to give a " T " shot and it

was obvious this one didn't know what she was doing! I'm filing a

complaint, also. The " bitch " !

It makes me mad because I don't think some of these women realize

just how important these injections are to us that really need them.

She probably thinks I need it to " get it up " . And NOTHING could be

further from the truth! I need it so I feel better overall, my meds

work better, I'm not so depressed and as a pleasant " side effect " , it

does increase my libido and my " morning rods " sometimes take an hour

to go away!!!!! (Too bad the wife doesn't have the time to make love

in the weekday mornings due to work. Grrrrrrrr...)

I'm so sorry you are in such pain also. You also take care of

yourself. I just wanted to clarify what I said and also how important

those of us who have nurses give us our injections make sure you get

one that knows what she/he is doing (I've yet to have a male nurse

give me a shot of it and would prefer to stay with the

females....LOL!)

Aloha for now,

Hawaiian Wayne

> >

> > Aloha All!

> >

> > WOW! It has to have been at least 2 months since I last posted

> here.

> > I'm happy to se some familiar names and lots of brand new

members.

> > Well, actually, I'm happy for the board helping so many, yet,

> unhappy

> > that so many NEED to seek support for this condition.

> >

> > I'd like to get back to 's original post about levels at

> > individual weeks. I get an injection (yes, I STILL go to the

clinic

> > and have a cute nurse do it in my bare bottom!-LOL!) every THREE

> > weeks of cypo-t because my levels don't drop fast enough to

warrant

> > every other week injections. Seven days after my ONE ML of

> > 200ng/ml " T " is VERY HIGH: From 1300's to 1500's. At FOURTEEN

days:

> > it's at 700's to 900's at 21 days it's below 500, usually about

300

> > or 250 (which is still better than my original Total " T " of

84!!!!!)

> >

> > I would prefer to have the doc go by how I feel than by the

numbers

> > becase after 14 days, not only do I notice a drop in my libido,

but

> > since I've been taking high doses of opiates for over 6 years for

> > failed spine surgeries ( 3 of them between 1997-2000), my pain

> levels

> > go up and I have to take more pain meds which leads to being more

> > drowsy by 3PM and then I take Dexadrine which offsets the SSRI I

> take

> > for depression (celexa) and loads my brain with dopamine which

> makes

> > me hornier than a March Hare for about SIX HOURS! LOL! But by

> bedtime

> > I need to take valiums to sleep, (I know, this is a bad, bad way

to

> > live)sometimes they work, sometimes they don't and I'll sleep for

3

> > hours and get up.

> >

> > My wife then wonders why I'm up and I tell her and she knows I'm

> > fighting all sorts of biological battles with pain, depression

and

> > the meds I take. I take about TEN different ones for high blood

> > pressure and cholesterol, to pain and depression to swelling of

my

> > feet and ankles!!! And a specialist couldn't figure out why I

have

> > pain in my head...not headache pain, more of a low volume sharp

> pain

> > on the right side just above my temple going back to just above

my

> > neck tendon....it drives me NUTS!!!

> >

> > I know I'm a walking pharmacy, but hey, I've got GREAT insurance

> and

> > I may as well use it while I've got it. It does cover my " T "

also,

> > but not like the rest of my meds. There is a $100 deductible and

> then

> > I pay 20%...well, gee...when I go through 2 vials a YEAR, I pay

> over

> > $160 out of pocket all totalled. Maybe that isn't so bad after

> > reading some of the other posts, eh?

> >

> > It's great seeing some of you all again!

> >

> > Aloha Just For Now,

> > Hawaiian Wayne

> >

>

October 30, 2006

Aloha Wayne-

I was looking at my post to you and you're absolutely right! A dose

of 1 ml is not a big dose especially when its good for 2-3 weeks.

Don't know what was going through my head when I thought that, lol.

Must have been late or something. Hell, I used to get (well, twice

anyway) -2- ml (400mg) shots per month from my uro when I started

injections. One reason I stopped that dose was the peaks and valleys

were too much for me. You seem to have a lot less trouble with them.

The other thing I want to correct for the record is that I'm not near

in the pain that you are! A little arthritis in the shoulder and

knees maybe, which is helped a great deal by T.cyp, but my insomnia

is just like yours - sleep 2 or 3 hrs, then wake up and can't get

back to sleep. Sometimes in spite of the Ambien. I thought your T

level of 1300 to 1500 after a week was high but in your case with

your horrific back pain looks like the Drs are making an exception.

And that's where my body-builder comparison came in; the BB's

probably inject more than you and me combined, so their T levels must

be even higher, so it's not unknown (it's not continuous though, they

cycle T injections.)

So like I say, take care of yourself, huh? And post more often so we

know you're OK.

Rich

> >

> > Aloha Wayne-

> > Lemme get this straight...a nurse shoots a full ml of depoT in

your

> > butt and a -week- later, your T levels manage to come down to

1300-

> > 1500, right. At first I figured Wayne has become a lunatic. But

on

> > second thought, you're really only getting into the body-builder

> > range. In fact, in some BB circles you'd probably be a piker,

lol.

> I

> > remember reading once at the Meso-RX forum, in the body-building

> > section, they'd talk about how much " juice " you could pump into a

> > buttock cheek and I think the max was 2 or 3 ml, and about 1ml in

> > each thigh. How they survive that, I have no idea. For the kind

of

> > pain you're talking about, though, at least the depoT can give

you

> > some relief on par with the opiates. Hell it helps build muscle,

> > which the opiates won't do.

> >

> > Between the Dexedrine and the Depo-T I can see where you have

> trouble

> > getting to sleep. The water retention in the feet and ankles is

> also

> > a problem reported with high doses of T. I think the BBs use

> > diuretics for it or maybe you have to manage the estradiol, I

> forget

> > (I hate to ask what your E2 number is at.) Also that amount of T

is

> > not going to exactly help your blood pressure a whole lot. And

> > actually I should just shut the hell up because I'm sure that

> > whatever you haven't figured out, your doctor has. Sorry.

> >

> > Anyway there are at least two things I can empathize with: I can

> only

> > get about 3-4 hrs sleep at a stretch myself despite the Ambien;

and

> > I'm not quite the walking pharmacy that you are but I jokingly

> > regard " breakfast " as a handfull of pills, lol.

> >

> > Take care of yourself, huh?

> > Rich

> >

November 7, 2006

ha.... after the nurse screwed up your injection did you bend her over and give

her an injection of your own?

Hawaiian Wayne <wayne_in_hawaii27@...> wrote: Aloha Rich!