Tribulus

[Guest guest]

> Hmmm, most clinical tests I have reviewed demonstrate that trib is not

> effective in increasing LH which = no increase in DHEA = no increase in T.

>

> So what Greg & the Tribulus users are feeling is a placebo effect?

>

> Has anyone here had a b4 & after T test while using tribulus?

>

>

> I guess the placebo effect over a broad band is possible.

Zippy:

It is conceivable that higher dosages are needed to stimulate LH and/or T,

compared to what has been researched, or Tribulus contains some type of

vasoactive substance that increases blood flow to the penis. Most people

assume that an increase in erections is due solely to T levels being higher,

but a simple review of the literature would reveal that there are numerous

neurotransmitters in the brain that play a role in sexual

excitement/activity. the success of Viagra is a perfect example. It has

increased the sexual activity of many men and has nothing to do with T

levels.

I have had people report to me that they developed testicular abnormalities

at high dosages of Tribulus. I would not dismiss it as totally inert, but

the recent papers on humans showed no effects on the variables measured (LH,

T) physical performance. It is possible that Tribulus effects variables

that were simply not measured.

later,

Tom

Incledon, MS, RD, LD, LN, CSCS, NSCA-CPT

Adjunct Professor of Kinesiology and Nutrition

Math, Science, and Technology

Nova Southeastern University

and

Research Scientist

Department of Physiology and Biophysics

Department of Exercise and Sport Science

University of Miami

Mailing address:

619 NW 90th Terrace

Plantation, FL 33324

954-577-0689

hpsinc@...

Journal of Performance Enhancement

http://members.tripod.com/JPE_Sportscience/

Coming soon: Performance Nutrition Newsletter!

[Guest guest]

,

First I want to assure you that I didn't buy any stock share of

Tribulus producing companies

The study at:

http://www.tribestan.com/co_docs/424_007.html

seems to show an increase of some hormones (LH, T, FSH and Estradiol).

I understand they might be biased.

I once read that Tribulus has a slight MAO-inhibition effect, which

may explain the sense of well being and the small increases of T

level of some users. What do you think?

Best,

Carlo Buzzichelli

Siena, Italy

>

> > --does tribulus raise testosterone levels?

>

> > Yes, especially (or only?) if your starting level are very low.

> > In T-mag they showed a test done on somebody whose testo and LH

went

> > up around 20% from a very low baseline (if I don't recall

> > bad). . . . This could be a good supplement to stagger with pro-

> > hormones in order to restore normal testo levels.

>

>

> There is no peer-reviewed, scientific evidence that tribulus raises

> testosterone. Current evidence indicates that it has no effect.

In one

> study, tribulus did not elevate serum testosterone (1). In another

study,

> tribulus supplementation had no effect on body composition or

muscular

> strength (2).

>

> 1. Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Reifenrath TA, Uhl NL, Parsons KA, Sharp

RL, King

> DS. Effects of anabolic precursors on serum testosterone

concentrations and

> adaptations to resistance training in young men.

> Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Sep;10(3):340-59

>

> 2. J, Uelmen J, R, Earnest C.

> The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise

> performance in resistance-trained males.

> Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Jun;10(2):208-15 Related

Articles, Books,

> LinkOut

>

>

> Krieger

> Graduate Assistant, Exercise Science

> Washington State University

> Webmaster, WSU Strength and Conditioning

> http://www.wsu.edu/~strength

> Science Editor, Pure Power Magazine

> http://www.purepowermag.com

>

> jkrieger@w...

[Guest guest]

Here is what one manufacture said:

A natural product obtained from above-the-ground part of Tribulus terrestris

L. Bulgaricum, which contains predominantly saponins of furostanol type,

with prevailing quantity of protodioscin (not less than 45% in Tribestan®).

The natural habitats of the plant have been extensively studied and the

plant is well defined as species and like other plants, would often change

its composition, depending on the site and conditions of growth. The cultured

plant is already being used in Bulgaria as well. Cultivation is a

complicated process because of the specificity of the plant.

Probable Benefits:

Increased sex drive and higher levels of testosterone

Improves libido in men and women

Prolongs duration of the erection

Stimulating influence on spermatogenesis

Increased number of spermatozoa and their motility

Increased anabolic hormones to optimum level

Improved sexual function

Reduced catabolism

Speeds recuperation

Relieves menopausal symptoms

Stimulates ovulation

Favorable influence on insomnia, irritability or apathy

Tribestan® is currently the ONLY tribulis product we trust and use. It is

great for testosterone production and perfect when used as an " off cycle "

supplement if you are cycling prohormone products.

Joe Littleton

Gobi Desert

---------------

Kendrick Trahan <ktrahan@...> wrote:

<I have just one question. I bought a bottle of Tribulis because of

all the positive feedback that I have heard from this group and from

reading up on it. But, I bought the bottle without reading the label

first. It states do not take if you are under 40 years old. Is there

a reason for this? What would happen if someone under 40 takes it? >

[Guest guest]

> Tribestan® is currently the ONLY tribulis product we trust and use. It is

> great for testosterone production and perfect when used as an " off cycle "

> supplement if you are cycling prohormone products.

are you aware of any independent studies which support the benefits of

Bulgarian Tribulus?

thanks

Australia

[Guest guest]

Phosphor <phosphor@...> wrote:

> Tribestan® is currently the ONLY tribulis product we trust and use.

> It is great for testosterone production and perfect when used as an " off

> cycle " supplement if you are cycling prohormone products.

>

> are you aware of any independent studies which support the benefits

> of Bulgarian Tribulus?

Yes, I'd be curious to see some results on this too. So far I found

only two human studies on trib and both showed it did not affect

testosterone levels or lean body mass. The only study I found that

supported the use of any kind of steroidal saponins was done on rats

and unfortunately in Russian (i'm a little rusty on my Russian). And I

wasn't aware that the Supertraining group was a place for blatant

commercials like the one up above.

For the record, I had a friend who used Tribestan, and for some reason he ended

up with a severe case of

haemorrhoids and couldn't go potty straight for over 3 weeks. I noticed

a similar post on MFW, and I'm wondering who makes these claims and

why, since there is no actual form of proof attached.

" Big Cat " Van Mol

Oostende, belgium

[Guest guest]

Here was an interesting post on one of the steroid forums about increasing LH

with tribulus. It cautions that you not only increase T but also E2 so it has to

be done with an aromitase inhibitor. Since most of us are on arimidex already,

what is the groups opinion of using tribulus instead of HCG? Here is the post:

- Arkansas

Found this article...thought it was kinda interesting…

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/suppanalysis.php

here's a quote in the article...

Tribulus Terrestris

" Tribulus terrestris is a prostrate, matforming plant. Although it has been used

by the Chinese for thousands of years, little was scientifically known about it

until recently. Tribulus is said to increase testosterone levels by as much as

30%, especially when taken in conjunction with sopharma. The primary mechanism

of action to explain this phenomenon is that tribulus stimulates the secretion

of lutenizing hormone (LH) from the anterior pituitary gland. This in turn

stimulates testosterone production, as well as growth hormone and estradiol.

Therefore, tribulus can easily stimulate gynecomastia (gyno) and insulin

resistance. This is very negative for bodybuilders. In women, tribulus

stimulates follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and estradiol, but not

testosterone. 750-1200 mg/day dosages are not uncommon and is usually stacked

with 100 mg/day of DHEA (discussed later) and 100 mg/day of androstenedione.

Although the rise in testosterone levels may sound attractive to many

athletes, the side effects are much more dire than gynecomastia and insulin

resistance. Tribulus Terrestris has been shown to dilate the coronary arteries

(Wang, 1990) and has a diuretic effect (Arcasoy, 1998). In both cases, this can

put the athlete in a dangerous state. Bourke (1995) found that severe nervous

and muscular locomotor disorders are directly associated with tribulus

terrestris ingestion. The production of bile stones is also greatly enhanced

(Miles, 1994) due to hyperplasia of the bile ducts and diffuse swelling of

hepatocytes (Tapia, 1994). "

Here are some facts from some studies done on Tribulus:

* A study done with healthy individuals taking 750mg of tribulus per day showed

a 72% LH increase, and a 41% increase in testosterone.

* In a study conducted with 20 males and females, 75% of the participants had

increased endurance, 80% had increased libido and sexual performance, and 95% of

the females reported no PMS symptoms.

* A study conducted with 200 males suffering from impotence showed increase in

LH and testosterone levels after supplementing Tribulus. The study also found a

increase in sperm production.

You left out the important findings of that study. Although LH was increased by

72% and testosterone by 41%, tribulus also increased estradiol by 80%!

i.e. it resulted in a lower testosterone to "

href= " http://anabolicreview-research.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=23 & products\

_id=42 " >estrogen level and an "

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_id=42 " >estrogen level that was well above normal.

Whenever you increase testosterone, you are going to increase aromatization and

therefore "

href= " http://anabolicreview-research.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=23 & products\

_id=42 " >estrogen levels. Usually natural test boosters work by stimulating LH

release from the pituitary gland. Unfortunately, excess LH inhibitis the amount

of GnRH that is produced in the hypothalamus - which is responsible for

increasing LH in the first place!

So, you get a negative feedback loop in the HPTA. This means that natural test

boosters like tribulus, tongkat ali etc. either need to be cycled because they

only work for a few days, or they need to be taken with an anti-aromatase. All

this trouble for only a very small increase in test!

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