Re: Man boobs and Androgel

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:15:47 -0000, you wrote:

>

>Ok... so I saw my endo yesterday and asked her to check my estrodial

>levels (which luckily she'd got a baseline on before I started TRT)...

>and she mentioned to me that it isn't necessarily the estrodial levels

>raising that would cause man boobs. She said that some people get it

>from the Androgel itself... with the raise in Testosterone oddly enough.

>

>I thought this was pretty weird. So I thought I'd run it by some of

>you who have more experience with this than me.

Nonsense. It's a side effect from T because the T is converted to E2.

[Guest guest]

Gynecomastia can develop via a multitude of differing mechanisms and be

caused by a varienty of conditions.

10% of all gynecomastia sufferers have the condition as a result of

hypogondism and hypogondism is an associated condition.

This is detailed in Dr Glen D Braunsteins (endocrinologist) 1993 white

paper entitled gynecomastia and the figures and concured with by Ismail

and Barth biochemists in their 2002 white paper entitled Endocrinology

of gynecomastia.

I only have a paper copy of the first white paper that I obtained from

speaking to a PR guy at The New England Journal of Medicine, but I do

have a pdf of the latter paper and can send you a copy of it shuld you

want to look at the full subject and thoughts on the aetiologies of

this condition.

All the above said and done. Hypogonadism is related to/an associated

condition to gynecomastia because of either elevated estradiol or

estrogens (including SHBG) or because of a relative imbalance of

androgens to estrogens.

When a man with no prior history of gynecomastia starts to develop the

condition after commencing TRT, then it is HIGHLY likely that the cause

is the shifting endocrine balance in favour of increased expression of

estrogens.

Increased testsosterone absolutely does NOT cause gynecomastia

directly, rather it can do so if it converts to estrogens, usually

estrdiol or if the TRT regime causes an increase somehow in SHBG or if

high SHBG pre existed the TRT.

In plain language your doctor is wrong.

The E2 level and SHBG levels should be viewed in relation to what they

were prior to TRT and the relative balance to androgens considered.

P.S

Let me know if you want the document.

>

> Ok... so I saw my endo yesterday and asked her to check my estrodial

> levels (which luckily she'd got a baseline on before I started TRT)...

> and she mentioned to me that it isn't necessarily the estrodial levels

> raising that would cause man boobs. She said that some people get it

> from the Androgel itself... with the raise in Testosterone oddly

enough.

>

> I thought this was pretty weird. So I thought I'd run it by some of

> you who have more experience with this than me.

>

> My concern is that I will slowly get man boobs without knowing it

> because I am about 20 pounds overweight as it is...

>

> Anyone heard about developing the condition without heightened

> estrodial levels?

>

[Guest guest]

That is one more I need to add to my list of Endo's Stories and this goes to the

top of the list. It's now testosterone that will give you boobs it is the

Estradiol the testosterone converts into that dose. You need to keep an eye on

your E2 if it goes up get it down or you can get man boobs. Endo's must think

they are above all in the world I know they are in a world of there own.

erkarns <no_reply > wrote: Ok... so I saw my endo

yesterday and asked her to check my estrodial

levels (which luckily she'd got a baseline on before I started TRT)...

and she mentioned to me that it isn't necessarily the estrodial levels

raising that would cause man boobs. She said that some people get it

from the Androgel itself... with the raise in Testosterone oddly enough.

I thought this was pretty weird. So I thought I'd run it by some of

you who have more experience with this than me.

My concern is that I will slowly get man boobs without knowing it

because I am about 20 pounds overweight as it is...

Anyone heard about developing the condition without heightened

estrodial levels?

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Has anyone or is anyone taking an aromatase inhibitor such as

arimidex while on TRT? I was reading that 0.5mg at end of day is all

that is needed and was thinking about asking my doctor to prescribe

this to me.

Arimidex is an aromatase inhibitor (sometimes called an AI). It is

usually provided in 1MG tabs or in liquid form. The drug works in a

non-steroid form by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme which

convertstestosterone and other androgens into estrogen. This means

that there is less estrogen tocause female pattern fat deposits,

gyno, and water retention. In medicine, Arimidex isutilized to treat

prostate cancer. In sports chemistry, the drug has been employed as

ameans of preventing excessive estrogenic side effects during AAS use

and to aid increating a harder appearing musculature for competitive

bodybuilders. Unlike Nolvadex,which simply block estrogen receptor-

sites, this drug prevents or reduces estrogenproduction. Though some

estrogen presence is noted as necessary for AAS to reach

fulleffectiveness, too much can cause a layer of fat, water

retention, and breast tissue growthpotentially with tumors called

gynecomastia or bitch tits. Arimidex has a 75-85%aromatization

inhibition rate.

> >

> > Ok... so I saw my endo yesterday and asked her to check my

estrodial

> > levels (which luckily she'd got a baseline on before I started

TRT)...

> > and she mentioned to me that it isn't necessarily the estrodial

levels

> > raising that would cause man boobs. She said that some people get

it

> > from the Androgel itself... with the raise in Testosterone oddly

> enough.

> >

> > I thought this was pretty weird. So I thought I'd run it by some

of

> > you who have more experience with this than me.

> >

> > My concern is that I will slowly get man boobs without knowing it

> > because I am about 20 pounds overweight as it is...

> >

> > Anyone heard about developing the condition without heightened

> > estrodial levels?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:50:23 -0000, you wrote:

>Has anyone or is anyone taking an aromatase inhibitor such as

>arimidex while on TRT? I was reading that 0.5mg at end of day is all

>that is needed and was thinking about asking my doctor to prescribe

>this to me.

I would guess almost all of us are taking arimidex. SOme take

tamoxifen or femara which are similar. Some get by on DIM a

supplement. But most all of us are managing E2 as best we can.

Arimidex is quite powerful though. Most of us have had some trouble

finding what works for us long term. I take 1/4 tablet about every 3

to 4 days. And then occasionally take a 7 days break to let it clean

out. (Arimidex has a 48 hour half life and so can accumulate on even

small doses.)

When E2 gets too low it is even worse than too high. The good news is

it comes back up in about 5 days.

I toyed around with 1/2 tablet dosing. Dosing every other day. Every 3

days, every four days and still saw build up and crashed from driving

E2 too low.

It just takes practice and paying attention to your body's reaction.

Both too high and too low have impacts on your erections. That's a

good dipstick indicator. ;->

However most of us at least once or twice confuse the symptoms of E2

going too low thinking it's actually too high and take more arimidex

to drive it down yet further.

Too low is awful. As some here once said it makes anything you do with

your dick feel like it's just shaking hands. :-<

But again a few days is all that's necessary to recapture good levels.

Having a doc that allows you test some to help you figure out a good

dosing helps. I find 20 to 35 is my target range for E2.

>Arimidex is an aromatase inhibitor (sometimes called an AI). It is

>usually provided in 1MG tabs or in liquid form. The drug works in a

>non-steroid form by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme which

>convertstestosterone and other androgens into estrogen. This means

>that there is less estrogen tocause female pattern fat deposits,

>gyno, and water retention. In medicine, Arimidex isutilized to treat

>prostate cancer. In sports chemistry, the drug has been employed as

>ameans of preventing excessive estrogenic side effects during AAS use

>and to aid increating a harder appearing musculature for competitive

>bodybuilders. Unlike Nolvadex,which simply block estrogen receptor-

>sites, this drug prevents or reduces estrogenproduction. Though some

>estrogen presence is noted as necessary for AAS to reach

>fulleffectiveness, too much can cause a layer of fat, water

>retention, and breast tissue growthpotentially with tumors called

>gynecomastia or bitch tits. Arimidex has a 75-85%aromatization

>inhibition rate.

>

>

>

>

>

>> >

>> > Ok... so I saw my endo yesterday and asked her to check my

>estrodial

>> > levels (which luckily she'd got a baseline on before I started

>TRT)...

>> > and she mentioned to me that it isn't necessarily the estrodial

>levels

>> > raising that would cause man boobs. She said that some people get

>it

>> > from the Androgel itself... with the raise in Testosterone oddly

>> enough.

>> >

>> > I thought this was pretty weird. So I thought I'd run it by some

>of

>> > you who have more experience with this than me.

>> >

>> > My concern is that I will slowly get man boobs without knowing it

>> > because I am about 20 pounds overweight as it is...

>> >

>> > Anyone heard about developing the condition without heightened

>> > estrodial levels?

>> >

>>

>

[Guest guest]

......... " She said that some people get it from the Androgel itself... with the

raise in

Testosterone oddly enough " ......

This is absolutely false. If this woman is infact and endicrinologist, she did

not pay very

good attention to reproductive endocrinology and male pituitary problems.

Ask her how testosterone can lock into estrogen receptors in male breast tissue

and cause

breast development. It just does not happen.

The culprits for gynecomastia are Estrogen and in some cases prolactin.

[Guest guest]

I do not use Arimidex. I tried DIM once and it was horrible (took me

too low!).

I manage my E2 levels with Zinc. With all the supplements I take, I

end up taking between 45 & 70 mg/day.

I can tell if I my E2 level is high because, in addition to not

having the " morning wood " , my breasts begin to enlarge; then I

increase my zinc intake to 70 mg/day.

If I do not see the " morning wood " and my breasts are normal, then my

E2 level is too low and I reduce my zinc intake to 45 mg/day.

Flaco

> >> >

> >> > Ok... so I saw my endo yesterday and asked her to check my

> >estrodial

> >> > levels (which luckily she'd got a baseline on before I started

> >TRT)...

> >> > and she mentioned to me that it isn't necessarily the

estrodial

> >levels

> >> > raising that would cause man boobs. She said that some people

get

> >it

> >> > from the Androgel itself... with the raise in Testosterone

oddly

> >> enough.

> >> >

> >> > I thought this was pretty weird. So I thought I'd run it by

some

> >of

> >> > you who have more experience with this than me.

> >> >

> >> > My concern is that I will slowly get man boobs without knowing

it

> >> > because I am about 20 pounds overweight as it is...

> >> >

> >> > Anyone heard about developing the condition without heightened

> >> > estrodial levels?

> >> >

> >>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> <snip>

> Anyone heard about developing the condition without heightened

> estrodial levels?

>

I believe that a T:E2 ratio of less than 5:1, 125:25, will cause an

unbalance enough that the body sees the E2 as high & grow boobs. It

thinks you are female. Some tomboy, flat-chested females have the

reverse problem. They have E:T ratio that is T high or E low.

I feel best when my T:E2 ratio is above 30:1. It was at one time 2:1,

& I grew boobs. I am Klinefelter's Mosaic 47XXY,XY

I now self inject 25mg twice a week, 500iu HCG 3 times aweek, 1/2

tablet Arimidex 3 times a week & 2 DIM 3 times a week.

This keeps my T 600-800, E2 15-25. The T:E ratio is from 30 - 50

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:50:42 -0000, you wrote:

>I do not use Arimidex. I tried DIM once and it was horrible (took me

>too low!).

>

>I manage my E2 levels with Zinc. With all the supplements I take, I

>end up taking between 45 & 70 mg/day.

>

>I can tell if I my E2 level is high because, in addition to not

>having the " morning wood " , my breasts begin to enlarge; then I

>increase my zinc intake to 70 mg/day.

>

>If I do not see the " morning wood " and my breasts are normal, then my

>E2 level is too low and I reduce my zinc intake to 45 mg/day.

>

>Flaco

I'm curious if you've had any blood work to confirm E2 levels and

effectiveness of zinc.

[Guest guest]

Just a question I tried doing arimidex with Indolplex/DIM before getting my T

levles up high enough I was able to keep my E2 down just using DIM one tablet a

day I can't do more then one makes me sick. So when I added in Arimidex to the

DIM it was all good for a time then little by little I started getting a bad

rash on the back of my legs it looked dam bad like raw meat. After months of

trying diff. meds I ran out of DIM and the rash went away. What kind of DIM are

you using I now told it's not good to mix them.

gin2c <no_reply > wrote:

>

> <snip>

> Anyone heard about developing the condition without heightened

> estrodial levels?

>

I believe that a T:E2 ratio of less than 5:1, 125:25, will cause an

unbalance enough that the body sees the E2 as high & grow boobs. It

thinks you are female. Some tomboy, flat-chested females have the

reverse problem. They have E:T ratio that is T high or E low.

I feel best when my T:E2 ratio is above 30:1. It was at one time 2:1,

& I grew boobs. I am Klinefelter's Mosaic 47XXY,XY

I now self inject 25mg twice a week, 500iu HCG 3 times aweek, 1/2

tablet Arimidex 3 times a week & 2 DIM 3 times a week.

This keeps my T 600-800, E2 15-25. The T:E ratio is from 30 - 50

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> ........ " She said that some people get it from the Androgel

itself... with the raise in

> Testosterone oddly enough " ......

>

>

> This is absolutely false. If this woman is infact and

endicrinologist, she did not pay very

> good attention to reproductive endocrinology and male pituitary

problems.

>

> Ask her how testosterone can lock into estrogen receptors in male

breast tissue and cause

> breast development. It just does not happen.

>

> The culprits for gynecomastia are Estrogen and in some cases

prolactin.

>

It boggles my mind how these people became physicians if they lack

so much education. I am begining to see a pattern here of

incompetent doctors with respect to hormones.

[Guest guest]

> >

> > ........ " She said that some people get it from the Androgel

> itself... with the raise in

> > Testosterone oddly enough " ......

> >

> >

> > This is absolutely false. If this woman is infact and

> endicrinologist, she did not pay very

> > good attention to reproductive endocrinology and male pituitary

> problems.

> >

> > Ask her how testosterone can lock into estrogen receptors in male

> breast tissue and cause

> > breast development. It just does not happen.

> >

> > The culprits for gynecomastia are Estrogen and in some cases

> prolactin.

> >

> It boggles my mind how these people became physicians if they lack

> so much education. I am begining to see a pattern here of

> incompetent doctors with respect to hormones.

>

To be fair, alot of the knowledge on hormone functions is relatively

new, and in many aspects the endocrine system as a whole, still

remains a complete mystery.

Don't worry, as more people are willing to spend money on anti-aging

therapy, research will be done

[Guest guest]

Are there any long term effects known for taking arimidex long-term?

I was maybe thinking about trying the zinc route possibly before

turning to Arimidex, as with any drug there's always consequences

usually when used long-term.

> >> >

> >> > Ok... so I saw my endo yesterday and asked her to check my

> >estrodial

> >> > levels (which luckily she'd got a baseline on before I started

> >TRT)...

> >> > and she mentioned to me that it isn't necessarily the

estrodial

> >levels

> >> > raising that would cause man boobs. She said that some people

get

> >it

> >> > from the Androgel itself... with the raise in Testosterone

oddly

> >> enough.

> >> >

> >> > I thought this was pretty weird. So I thought I'd run it by

some

> >of

> >> > you who have more experience with this than me.

> >> >

> >> > My concern is that I will slowly get man boobs without knowing

it

> >> > because I am about 20 pounds overweight as it is...

> >> >

> >> > Anyone heard about developing the condition without heightened

> >> > estrodial levels?

> >> >

> >>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I get E2 tested every 6 months, with the T profile. I used to

see the E2 as high as 0.8 and as low as 0.1 (do not recall the units).

Also, my boobs go down after I go to my high end dose and my " morning

wood " comes and goes during the boobs transition. Then, when I go to

my low-end dose, the " morning wood " returns and then goes away and

the boops start growing.

Since I use compounded T, I know I am not that precise with the dose,

so I have not been able to perfectly time my zinc intake so that I

can keep the " morning wood " every day.

Flaco

>

> >I do not use Arimidex. I tried DIM once and it was horrible (took

me

> >too low!).

> >

> >I manage my E2 levels with Zinc. With all the supplements I take,

I

> >end up taking between 45 & 70 mg/day.

> >

> >I can tell if I my E2 level is high because, in addition to not

> >having the " morning wood " , my breasts begin to enlarge; then I

> >increase my zinc intake to 70 mg/day.

> >

> >If I do not see the " morning wood " and my breasts are normal, then

my

> >E2 level is too low and I reduce my zinc intake to 45 mg/day.

> >

> >Flaco

>

>

> I'm curious if you've had any blood work to confirm E2 levels and

> effectiveness of zinc.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Are there any long term effects known for taking arimidex long-term?

> I was maybe thinking about trying the zinc route possibly before

> turning to Arimidex, as with any drug there's always consequences

> usually when used long-term.

>

> <snip>

I have been taking 1/2 tablet 3 times a week for over a year & have not

notice any side effects. What are they?

[Guest guest]

Long before I know about high Estradiol I had sore and hard nipples after

reading Dr. Shippen's book " The Testosterone Syndrome " he said to take Zinc

starting with 50 mgs 2x's a day until the sore and hard nipples got better but

not longer the 4 weeks. Zinc is something we men are all low on in the US are

meat is corn fed. So we need anyway it does help with keeping Estradiol down

and this is the first thing one needs to start on with a problem if it does not

help stay on it doing one pill a day with 2mgs of Copper Zinc lowers your

Copper. And add in some Arimidex starting at .25mg every 3 days.

franktjo <no_reply > wrote: Are there any long term

effects known for taking arimidex long-term?

I was maybe thinking about trying the zinc route possibly before

turning to Arimidex, as with any drug there's always consequences

usually when used long-term.

> >> >

> >> > Ok... so I saw my endo yesterday and asked her to check my

> >estrodial

> >> > levels (which luckily she'd got a baseline on before I started

> >TRT)...

> >> > and she mentioned to me that it isn't necessarily the

estrodial

> >levels

> >> > raising that would cause man boobs. She said that some people

get

> >it

> >> > from the Androgel itself... with the raise in Testosterone

oddly

> >> enough.

> >> >

> >> > I thought this was pretty weird. So I thought I'd run it by

some

> >of

> >> > you who have more experience with this than me.

> >> >

> >> > My concern is that I will slowly get man boobs without knowing

it

> >> > because I am about 20 pounds overweight as it is...

> >> >

> >> > Anyone heard about developing the condition without heightened

> >> > estrodial levels?

> >> >

> >>

> >

>

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In all the yrs. that I have been treating my high E2 I have yet to find a dose

that works from week to week I have to keep changing it. E2 is just not that

constant for some of us. So all you can do is get in tune with your body so you

can tell when your to high or to low.

rndchemist <rndchemist@...> wrote: Yes, I get E2 tested every

6 months, with the T profile. I used to

see the E2 as high as 0.8 and as low as 0.1 (do not recall the units).

Also, my boobs go down after I go to my high end dose and my " morning

wood " comes and goes during the boobs transition. Then, when I go to

my low-end dose, the " morning wood " returns and then goes away and

the boops start growing.

Since I use compounded T, I know I am not that precise with the dose,

so I have not been able to perfectly time my zinc intake so that I

can keep the " morning wood " every day.

Flaco

>

> >I do not use Arimidex. I tried DIM once and it was horrible (took

me

> >too low!).

> >

> >I manage my E2 levels with Zinc. With all the supplements I take,

I

> >end up taking between 45 & 70 mg/day.

> >

> >I can tell if I my E2 level is high because, in addition to not

> >having the " morning wood " , my breasts begin to enlarge; then I

> >increase my zinc intake to 70 mg/day.

> >

> >If I do not see the " morning wood " and my breasts are normal, then

my

> >E2 level is too low and I reduce my zinc intake to 45 mg/day.

> >

> >Flaco

>

>

> I'm curious if you've had any blood work to confirm E2 levels and

> effectiveness of zinc.

>

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

So far I have not seen any bad sides from doing Arimidex. The only thing that

can happen is if you go to low this is not good for your health. I get my T and

E2 tested every 6 weeks to keep on top of it. If you find you don't have big

swings in your levels of Estradiol then you can go longer between labs.

gin2c <no_reply > wrote:

>

> Are there any long term effects known for taking arimidex long-term?

> I was maybe thinking about trying the zinc route possibly before

> turning to Arimidex, as with any drug there's always consequences

> usually when used long-term.

>

> <snip>

I have been taking 1/2 tablet 3 times a week for over a year & have not

notice any side effects. What are they?

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Phil,

You take an amount 3 times a week while only takes .25 mgs once

a week and takes a week break every 6. His level stays at that mid

mark (17 ave.). Metabolism and chemistry are so different I guess. My

only concern with Arimidex and men is of the good estrones and how

strongly they might be affected. The body needs that balance to keep

the heart and bones strong. It's on my list of things to get to

reading about. Anyone have a particular article?

Vickie

In , philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

wrote:

>

> So far I have not seen any bad sides from doing Arimidex. The only

thing that can happen is if you go to low this is not good for your

health. I get my T and E2 tested every 6 weeks to keep on top of

it. If you find you don't have big swings in your levels of

Estradiol then you can go longer between labs.

>

> gin2c <no_reply > wrote:

> >

> > Are there any long term effects known for taking arimidex long-

term?

> > I was maybe thinking about trying the zinc route possibly before

> > turning to Arimidex, as with any drug there's always consequences

> > usually when used long-term.

> >

> > <snip>

>

> I have been taking 1/2 tablet 3 times a week for over a year & have

not

> notice any side effects. What are they?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what

you see. "

> Phil

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:29:53 -0000, you wrote:

>Phil,

>

>You take an amount 3 times a week while only takes .25 mgs once

>a week and takes a week break every 6. His level stays at that mid

>mark (17 ave.). Metabolism and chemistry are so different I guess. My

>only concern with Arimidex and men is of the good estrones and how

>strongly they might be affected. The body needs that balance to keep

>the heart and bones strong. It's on my list of things to get to

>reading about. Anyone have a particular article?

I actually called the NHI section on osteoporosis and asked what was

the essential E2 level for healthy bone density. They thought I was

crazy. Go figure.

[Guest guest]

Yes my body eats up the testosterone my labs are about 650 to 700 for Total T

and my Free T is up near the top of the range. As for E's there are no tests

for men all labs are doing is taking womens E tests and changing the range. Not

very good only test I know of for men is a Estradiol. Most of the men I see

that get there Total E's checked they are all very high and worry about it. Yet

they have there E2 in a good range. There just is not much out there about E's

in men.

Vickie <plp40@...> wrote: Phil,

You take an amount 3 times a week while only takes .25 mgs once

a week and takes a week break every 6. His level stays at that mid

mark (17 ave.). Metabolism and chemistry are so different I guess. My

only concern with Arimidex and men is of the good estrones and how

strongly they might be affected. The body needs that balance to keep

the heart and bones strong. It's on my list of things to get to

reading about. Anyone have a particular article?

Vickie

In , philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

wrote:

>

> So far I have not seen any bad sides from doing Arimidex. The only

thing that can happen is if you go to low this is not good for your

health. I get my T and E2 tested every 6 weeks to keep on top of

it. If you find you don't have big swings in your levels of

Estradiol then you can go longer between labs.

>

> gin2c <no_reply > wrote:

> >

> > Are there any long term effects known for taking arimidex long-

term?

> > I was maybe thinking about trying the zinc route possibly before

> > turning to Arimidex, as with any drug there's always consequences

> > usually when used long-term.

> >

> > <snip>

>

> I have been taking 1/2 tablet 3 times a week for over a year & have

not

> notice any side effects. What are they?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what

you see. "

> Phil

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Yep Dr.'s don't know much about E's in men and most men that try to get it

tested are told no.

retrogrouch@... wrote: On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:29:53 -0000, you

wrote:

>Phil,

>

>You take an amount 3 times a week while only takes .25 mgs once

>a week and takes a week break every 6. His level stays at that mid

>mark (17 ave.). Metabolism and chemistry are so different I guess. My

>only concern with Arimidex and men is of the good estrones and how

>strongly they might be affected. The body needs that balance to keep

>the heart and bones strong. It's on my list of things to get to

>reading about. Anyone have a particular article?

I actually called the NHI section on osteoporosis and asked what was

the essential E2 level for healthy bone density. They thought I was

crazy. Go figure.

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Are there any long term effects known for taking arimidex long-

term?

> > I was maybe thinking about trying the zinc route possibly before

> > turning to Arimidex, as with any drug there's always consequences

> > usually when used long-term.

> >

> > <snip>

>

> I have been taking 1/2 tablet 3 times a week for over a year & have

not

> notice any side effects. What are they?

>

Well this site says alot of muscle and joint pain....

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/BreastCancer/messages/2948.html

[Guest guest]

Ok look the person in the link is 75 with all kinds of problems and we men don't

do that size of a dose. Lets to apples to apples.

franktjo <no_reply > wrote:

> >

> > Are there any long term effects known for taking arimidex long-

term?

> > I was maybe thinking about trying the zinc route possibly before

> > turning to Arimidex, as with any drug there's always consequences

> > usually when used long-term.

> >

> > <snip>

>

> I have been taking 1/2 tablet 3 times a week for over a year & have

not

> notice any side effects. What are they?

>

Well this site says alot of muscle and joint pain....

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/BreastCancer/messages/2948.html

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:45:32 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Yep Dr.'s don't know much about E's in men and most men that try to get it

tested are told no.

I was actually asking about women's E2 levels. My wife's plunged to 0

with menopause.

i COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT WAS HEALTHY. But THEY HAVE NO NUMBER AND

KNOW OF no studies about E2 and bone density. Incredible.

>

>retrogrouch@... wrote: On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:29:53 -0000, you

wrote:

>

>>Phil,

>>

>>You take an amount 3 times a week while only takes .25 mgs once

>>a week and takes a week break every 6. His level stays at that mid

>>mark (17 ave.). Metabolism and chemistry are so different I guess. My

>>only concern with Arimidex and men is of the good estrones and how

>>strongly they might be affected. The body needs that balance to keep

>>the heart and bones strong. It's on my list of things to get to

>>reading about. Anyone have a particular article?

>

>I actually called the NHI section on osteoporosis and asked what was

>the essential E2 level for healthy bone density. They thought I was

>crazy. Go figure.

>

>

>

>

>

>Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

>Phil

> __________________________________________________

>