Androgel Application Question

[Guest guest]

I don't understand why or know, it is just what the insert says.

Phil

temujin_steve <temujin_steve@...> wrote:

A few days ago someone posted that Androgel should just be spread on

and allowed to dry, rather than rubbing it in. I have been rubbing it

in until it dries (15 or 20 seconds). Is there some reason for not

rubbing it in?

---------------------------------

Get your own web address.

Have a HUGE year through Small Business.

[Guest guest]

I use testosterone cream and rub it in almost anywhere.

Seems to work just fine for me!

cheers;

> A few days ago someone posted that Androgel should just be spread on

> and allowed to dry, rather than rubbing it in. I have been rubbing it

> in until it dries (15 or 20 seconds). Is

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 7.5mg of Androgel daily....using the pump. Levels are fairly

consistent, although they have dropped a little from a year ago. I

know that ideally, Androgel should be applied in the AM to a clean,

dry body and wait at least 6 hrs before showering / swimming. Any

ideas if it would be better to apply right before or after exercise?

Or does it matter.? On one hand, I'm thinking it would be good to

have a boost of T in your body before (gel peaks 1 hour after

application). But, on the other, it's nice to shower afterwards, and

then the T would be there for post exercise healing. Any thoughts?

Bill

[Guest guest]

Reasoning? Just curious. As always, thanks for your leadership on

this forum!

Bill

On Dec 17, 2007, at 6:27 PM, philip georgian wrote:

> On your workout days workout shower then gel. Check your DHT and

> Estradiol levels with your Testosterone.

>

> BBA <bba@...> wrote: On 7.5mg of Androgel daily....using

> the pump. Levels are fairly

> consistent, although they have dropped a little from a year ago. I

> know that ideally, Androgel should be applied in the AM to a clean,

> dry body and wait at least 6 hrs before showering / swimming. Any

> ideas if it would be better to apply right before or after exercise?

> Or does it matter.? On one hand, I'm thinking it would be good to

> have a boost of T in your body before (gel peaks 1 hour after

> application). But, on the other, it's nice to shower afterwards, and

> then the T would be there for post exercise healing. Any thoughts?

>

> Bill

>

> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what

> you see. "

> Phil

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

>

[Guest guest]

That makes good sense. But, what throws me off is when the

literature states that peak absorption / levels are approximately 1

hour after application. That would lead one to believe that 3, 4,

and certainly 5 or 6 hours later, absorption would be minimal. After

all, if peak level is within one hour, that is T in the blood, or

already absorbed.

I've also noticed that within 30 minutes of application, I feel kind

of sluggish.....Or, somewhat monotone. Not sleepy or tired, but

sluggish. Nothing major or concerning to me, but just an

observation. Then, it subsides a couple of hours later. Wonder if

it's a paradoxical effect, and have even considered taking it at

night before bedtime. Have been reluctant to do so b/c the

literature recommends AM application. Just " thinking out loud " as

they say.

Thanks to all who offer advice and support on this daily forum. I

don't outwardly participate much, but follow just about every thread

very loyally. Hope everyone has a great holiday!

Bill

On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:32 PM, retrogrouch@... wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:17:56 -0500, you wrote:

>

> >Reasoning? Just curious. As always, thanks for your leadership on

> >this forum!

>

> The gel continues absorbtion all day. If you're sweating it off and

> washing it off, you're not getting the full dose.

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is why you don't put the gel on then do a blood test in less then 6 hrs.

The Peak in 1 hr. is the start as the gel goes through the skin it is stored

just under the skin and goes into the blood over the next 24 hrs there is

allways a Peak in adding anykind of testosterone to your body.

http://tinyurl.com/2v4rol

BBA <bba@...> wrote:

That makes good sense. But, what throws me off is when the

literature states that peak absorption / levels are approximately 1

hour after application. That would lead one to believe that 3, 4,

and certainly 5 or 6 hours later, absorption would be minimal. After

all, if peak level is within one hour, that is T in the blood, or

already absorbed.

I've also noticed that within 30 minutes of application, I feel kind

of sluggish.....Or, somewhat monotone. Not sleepy or tired, but

sluggish. Nothing major or concerning to me, but just an

observation. Then, it subsides a couple of hours later. Wonder if

it's a paradoxical effect, and have even considered taking it at

night before bedtime. Have been reluctant to do so b/c the

literature recommends AM application. Just " thinking out loud " as

they say.

Thanks to all who offer advice and support on this daily forum. I

don't outwardly participate much, but follow just about every thread

very loyally. Hope everyone has a great holiday!

Bill

On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:32 PM, retrogrouch@... wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:17:56 -0500, you wrote:

>

> >Reasoning? Just curious. As always, thanks for your leadership on

> >this forum!

>

> The gel continues absorbtion all day. If you're sweating it off and

> washing it off, you're not getting the full dose.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Natural T peaks **VERY** early in the morning, more like the middle of

the night. You'd need to be applying at something like 1:00 AM,

without interrupting your sleep to mimic natural production.

I think it's almost impossible to mimic any natural rhythm of any

hormone with replacement. The best you can hope for is a delivery

method that is the least disruptive of all your other natural cycles.

On Dec 17, 2007, at 7:03 PM, wrote:

> Well I'm no expert, but the literature that came with the androgel say

> take it in the morning. My Doc told me to take it as early as

> possible

> in the morning so that it would mimic the naturly process. Apparently

> T peaks in the morning.

[Guest guest]

I have a speculation. While I no longer use the gels, patches or creams, I'd be

curious if the sluggishness is a reflection of the E2 conversion taking place. I

can't back this up with any facts. Just a speculation but it wouldn't be that

far fetched.

BBA <bba@...> wrote: That makes good sense. But, what throws

me off is when the

literature states that peak absorption / levels are approximately 1

hour after application. That would lead one to believe that 3, 4,

and certainly 5 or 6 hours later, absorption would be minimal. After

all, if peak level is within one hour, that is T in the blood, or

already absorbed.

I've also noticed that within 30 minutes of application, I feel kind

of sluggish.....Or, somewhat monotone. Not sleepy or tired, but

sluggish. Nothing major or concerning to me, but just an

observation. Then, it subsides a couple of hours later. Wonder if

it's a paradoxical effect, and have even considered taking it at

night before bedtime. Have been reluctant to do so b/c the

literature recommends AM application. Just " thinking out loud " as

they say.

Thanks to all who offer advice and support on this daily forum. I

don't outwardly participate much, but follow just about every thread

very loyally. Hope everyone has a great holiday!

Bill

On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:32 PM, retrogrouch@... wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:17:56 -0500, you wrote:

>

> >Reasoning? Just curious. As always, thanks for your leadership on

> >this forum!

>

> The gel continues absorbtion all day. If you're sweating it off and

> washing it off, you're not getting the full dose.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Great point................

On Dec 18, 2007, at 11:05 AM, Dave wrote:

> Natural T peaks **VERY** early in the morning, more like the middle of

> the night. You'd need to be applying at something like 1:00 AM,

> without interrupting your sleep to mimic natural production.

>

> I think it's almost impossible to mimic any natural rhythm of any

> hormone with replacement. The best you can hope for is a delivery

> method that is the least disruptive of all your other natural cycles.

>

> On Dec 17, 2007, at 7:03 PM, wrote:

>

> > Well I'm no expert, but the literature that came with the

> androgel say

> > take it in the morning. My Doc told me to take it as early as

> > possible

> > in the morning so that it would mimic the naturly process.

> Apparently

> > T peaks in the morning.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If so, what you recommend?

Bill

On Dec 18, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Norsworthy wrote:

> I have a speculation. While I no longer use the gels, patches or

> creams, I'd be curious if the sluggishness is a reflection of the

> E2 conversion taking place. I can't back this up with any facts.

> Just a speculation but it wouldn't be that far fetched.

>

> BBA <bba@...> wrote: That makes good sense. But, what

> throws me off is when the

> literature states that peak absorption / levels are approximately 1

> hour after application. That would lead one to believe that 3, 4,

> and certainly 5 or 6 hours later, absorption would be minimal. After

> all, if peak level is within one hour, that is T in the blood, or

> already absorbed.

>

> I've also noticed that within 30 minutes of application, I feel kind

> of sluggish.....Or, somewhat monotone. Not sleepy or tired, but

> sluggish. Nothing major or concerning to me, but just an

> observation. Then, it subsides a couple of hours later. Wonder if

> it's a paradoxical effect, and have even considered taking it at

> night before bedtime. Have been reluctant to do so b/c the

> literature recommends AM application. Just " thinking out loud " as

> they say.

>

> Thanks to all who offer advice and support on this daily forum. I

> don't outwardly participate much, but follow just about every thread

> very loyally. Hope everyone has a great holiday!

>

> Bill

>

> On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:32 PM, retrogrouch@... wrote:

>

> > On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:17:56 -0500, you wrote:

> >

> > >Reasoning? Just curious. As always, thanks for your leadership on

> > >this forum!

> >

> > The gel continues absorbtion all day. If you're sweating it off and

> > washing it off, you're not getting the full dose.

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:56:12 -0500, you wrote:

>That makes good sense. But, what throws me off is when the

>literature states that peak absorption / levels are approximately 1

>hour after application. That would lead one to believe that 3, 4,

>and certainly 5 or 6 hours later, absorption would be minimal. After

>all, if peak level is within one hour, that is T in the blood, or

>already absorbed.

>

>I've also noticed that within 30 minutes of application, I feel kind

>of sluggish.....Or, somewhat monotone. Not sleepy or tired, but

>sluggish. Nothing major or concerning to me, but just an

>observation. Then, it subsides a couple of hours later. Wonder if

>it's a paradoxical effect, and have even considered taking it at

>night before bedtime. Have been reluctant to do so b/c the

>literature recommends AM application. Just " thinking out loud " as

>they say.

I'd wonder if that's an effect of the carrier compounds for the T.

As I recall it's alcohol or propylene glycol?

>Thanks to all who offer advice and support on this daily forum. I

>don't outwardly participate much, but follow just about every thread

>very loyally. Hope everyone has a great holiday!

>

>Bill

>

>

>

>On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:32 PM, retrogrouch@... wrote:

>

>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:17:56 -0500, you wrote:

>>

>> >Reasoning? Just curious. As always, thanks for your leadership on

>> >this forum!

>>

>> The gel continues absorbtion all day. If you're sweating it off and

>> washing it off, you're not getting the full dose.

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:56:12 -0500, you wrote:

>

>That makes good sense. But, what throws me off is when the

>literature states that peak absorption / levels are approximately 1

>hour after application. That would lead one to believe that 3, 4,

>and certainly 5 or 6 hours later, absorption would be minimal. After

>all, if peak level is within one hour, that is T in the blood, or

>already absorbed.

Perhaps. The prescription sheet as I recall has a graph on it.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:14:57 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>I have a speculation. While I no longer use the gels, patches or creams, I'd be

curious if the sluggishness is a reflection of the E2 conversion taking place. I

can't back this up with any facts. Just a speculation but it wouldn't be that

far fetched.

If that was the case I wouldn't expect it to go away after an hour or

so.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:34:48 -0800, you wrote:

>

>As with any drug titration, if you're consistent with the way you

>apply it, even when contrary to manufacturer's instructions, you'll

>eventually get a dose that meets your needs at your convenience. If

>your life style makes showering after an hour necessary, you can

>increase the dosage to a level that negates the early showering.

Or split the dose to before and after.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:44:06 -0800, you wrote:

>On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:56:12 -0500, you wrote:

>

>>That makes good sense. But, what throws me off is when the

>>literature states that peak absorption / levels are approximately 1

>>hour after application. That would lead one to believe that 3, 4,

>>and certainly 5 or 6 hours later, absorption would be minimal. After

>>all, if peak level is within one hour, that is T in the blood, or

>>already absorbed.

>>

>>I've also noticed that within 30 minutes of application, I feel kind

>>of sluggish.....Or, somewhat monotone. Not sleepy or tired, but

>>sluggish. Nothing major or concerning to me, but just an

>>observation. Then, it subsides a couple of hours later. Wonder if

>>it's a paradoxical effect, and have even considered taking it at

>>night before bedtime. Have been reluctant to do so b/c the

>>literature recommends AM application. Just " thinking out loud " as

>>they say.

>

>I'd wonder if that's an effect of the carrier compounds for the T.

>

>As I recall it's alcohol or propylene glycol?

Ah just looked on line, major inactive ingredient is ethanol. SO you

get a little tired and relaxed for the first hour? ;->

[Guest guest]

So....Can you be more specific about the effect of ethanol. Thxs!!

On Dec 18, 2007, at 5:26 PM, retrogrouch@... wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:44:06 -0800, you wrote:

>

> >On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:56:12 -0500, you wrote:

> >

> >>That makes good sense. But, what throws me off is when the

> >>literature states that peak absorption / levels are approximately 1

> >>hour after application. That would lead one to believe that 3, 4,

> >>and certainly 5 or 6 hours later, absorption would be minimal. After

> >>all, if peak level is within one hour, that is T in the blood, or

> >>already absorbed.

> >>

> >>I've also noticed that within 30 minutes of application, I feel kind

> >>of sluggish.....Or, somewhat monotone. Not sleepy or tired, but

> >>sluggish. Nothing major or concerning to me, but just an

> >>observation. Then, it subsides a couple of hours later. Wonder if

> >>it's a paradoxical effect, and have even considered taking it at

> >>night before bedtime. Have been reluctant to do so b/c the

> >>literature recommends AM application. Just " thinking out loud " as

> >>they say.

> >

> >I'd wonder if that's an effect of the carrier compounds for the T.

> >

> >As I recall it's alcohol or propylene glycol?

>

> Ah just looked on line, major inactive ingredient is ethanol. SO you

> get a little tired and relaxed for the first hour? ;->

>

>

[Guest guest]

Either weekly injections or injections closer than that, maybe every 3 days. I

heard Dr. Shippen is injecting subcutaneously every 3 days. Makes sense because

I switched from monthly to weekly injections and not a great deal has changed

other than the intensity of the ups and downs. Headaches are not as bad but

after 3 to 4 weeks on weekly shots some of the headaches and nausea returned. I

take one Alieve and the headache leaves as quickly as it came but I suppose TRT

is not perfect for some. There's a good chance patches and gels are no

different, just imperfect.

BBA <bba@...> wrote: If so, what you recommend?

Bill

On Dec 18, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Norsworthy wrote:

> I have a speculation. While I no longer use the gels, patches or

> creams, I'd be curious if the sluggishness is a reflection of the

> E2 conversion taking place. I can't back this up with any facts.

> Just a speculation but it wouldn't be that far fetched.

>

> BBA <bba@...> wrote: That makes good sense. But, what

> throws me off is when the

> literature states that peak absorption / levels are approximately 1

> hour after application. That would lead one to believe that 3, 4,

> and certainly 5 or 6 hours later, absorption would be minimal. After

> all, if peak level is within one hour, that is T in the blood, or

> already absorbed.

>

> I've also noticed that within 30 minutes of application, I feel kind

> of sluggish.....Or, somewhat monotone. Not sleepy or tired, but

> sluggish. Nothing major or concerning to me, but just an

> observation. Then, it subsides a couple of hours later. Wonder if

> it's a paradoxical effect, and have even considered taking it at

> night before bedtime. Have been reluctant to do so b/c the

> literature recommends AM application. Just " thinking out loud " as

> they say.

>

> Thanks to all who offer advice and support on this daily forum. I

> don't outwardly participate much, but follow just about every thread

> very loyally. Hope everyone has a great holiday!

>

> Bill

>

> On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:32 PM, retrogrouch@... wrote:

>

> > On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:17:56 -0500, you wrote:

> >

> > >Reasoning? Just curious. As always, thanks for your leadership on

> > >this forum!

> >

> > The gel continues absorbtion all day. If you're sweating it off and

> > washing it off, you're not getting the full dose.

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

What I'm looking for is patterns or things that repeat themselves in time like a

cycle. I switched from monthly to weekly shots and I'm beginning to notice some

of the patterns repeating themselves in lesser intensity and in a week instead

of a month.

I blame the E2 conversion process but I really don't know. It just seemed the

logical conclusion based on my experience, not on anything academic I can prove.

Only a speculation.

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:14:57 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>I have a speculation. While I no longer use the gels, patches or creams, I'd be

curious if the sluggishness is a reflection of the E2 conversion taking place. I

can't back this up with any facts. Just a speculation but it wouldn't be that

far fetched.

If that was the case I wouldn't expect it to go away after an hour or

so.

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:20:37 -0500, you wrote:

>So....Can you be more specific about the effect of ethanol. Thxs!!

That's the same alcohol in liquor. You're absorbing it through the

skin.

>

>On Dec 18, 2007, at 5:26 PM, retrogrouch@... wrote:

>

>> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:44:06 -0800, you wrote:

>>

>> >On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:56:12 -0500, you wrote:

>> >

>> >>That makes good sense. But, what throws me off is when the

>> >>literature states that peak absorption / levels are approximately 1

>> >>hour after application. That would lead one to believe that 3, 4,

>> >>and certainly 5 or 6 hours later, absorption would be minimal. After

>> >>all, if peak level is within one hour, that is T in the blood, or

>> >>already absorbed.

>> >>

>> >>I've also noticed that within 30 minutes of application, I feel kind

>> >>of sluggish.....Or, somewhat monotone. Not sleepy or tired, but

>> >>sluggish. Nothing major or concerning to me, but just an

>> >>observation. Then, it subsides a couple of hours later. Wonder if

>> >>it's a paradoxical effect, and have even considered taking it at

>> >>night before bedtime. Have been reluctant to do so b/c the

>> >>literature recommends AM application. Just " thinking out loud " as

>> >>they say.

>> >

>> >I'd wonder if that's an effect of the carrier compounds for the T.

>> >

>> >As I recall it's alcohol or propylene glycol?

>>

>> Ah just looked on line, major inactive ingredient is ethanol. SO you

>> get a little tired and relaxed for the first hour? ;->

>>

>>

>

>

>

>