Re: HCG and Androgel

[Guest guest]

Jack then do the shot in your leg it works just as well I use a 27 g 5/8 lg.

needle can't even feel it.

Phil

Jack <myhormonez@...> wrote:

Hello everyone

I have a question about hcg Sub Q someone here said that you inject

it to a fat tissue of each side.But I have a problem becouse after

having sugery of a braintumor I now have a shunt (vp)shunt placed on

my left side belly will that cause a problem? If I hit it with the

needle you know what I am talking about? please share your thoughts

Thanks Jack.

[Guest guest]

---

oh phil thanks a lot we are jumping ahead of time here I have not

talk to my gp or endio dr yet about it I just wanna have some idea

before hand thanks anyhow also what is 27 g 5/8 lg.excuse my ..for

not knowing all of that.........

In , philip georgian <pmgamer18@y...>

wrote:

>

> Jack then do the shot in your leg it works just as well I use a 27

g 5/8 lg. needle can't even feel it.

> Phil

>

> Jack <myhormonez@y...> wrote:

> Hello everyone

> I have a question about hcg Sub Q someone here said that you

inject

> it to a fat tissue of each side.But I have a problem becouse after

> having sugery of a braintumor I now have a shunt (vp)shunt placed

on

> my left side belly will that cause a problem? If I hit it with the

> needle you know what I am talking about? please share your

thoughts

> Thanks Jack.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

g is for gauge of the needle.

lg is for length or how long.

A 27 gauge needle is a rather fine needle, I suspect.

> > Hello everyone

> > I have a question about hcg Sub Q someone here said that you

> inject

> > it to a fat tissue of each side.But I have a problem becouse

after

> > having sugery of a braintumor I now have a shunt (vp)shunt placed

> on

> > my left side belly will that cause a problem? If I hit it with

the

> > needle you know what I am talking about? please share your

> thoughts

> > Thanks Jack.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

27gauge 1 ml 5/8 " lg. is the needle I use to give my self a HCG shot.

Phil

Jack <myhormonez@...> wrote:

---

oh phil thanks a lot we are jumping ahead of time here I have not

talk to my gp or endio dr yet about it I just wanna have some idea

before hand thanks anyhow also what is 27 g 5/8 lg.excuse my ..for

not knowing all of that.........

In , philip georgian <pmgamer18@y...>

wrote:

>

> Jack then do the shot in your leg it works just as well I use a 27

g 5/8 lg. needle can't even feel it.

> Phil

>

> Jack <myhormonez@y...> wrote:

> Hello everyone

> I have a question about hcg Sub Q someone here said that you

inject

> it to a fat tissue of each side.But I have a problem becouse after

> having sugery of a braintumor I now have a shunt (vp)shunt placed

on

> my left side belly will that cause a problem? If I hit it with the

> needle you know what I am talking about? please share your

thoughts

> Thanks Jack.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Big,

When I was on Androgel my Estradiol was very high and my TT levels were not all

that great. I am on shots now and was able to get better levels of TT but this

made my Estradiol levels go up but still there were not as bad as they were on

Androgel.

Test your Estradiol levels if your less then 50 but over 30 with a good mid

level of SHBG then try Arimidex .25 mgs every 2 to 3 days. I stopped Arimidex

because my Estradiol levels were rebounding on me very bad. If your above 50

then do .5 mgs every other day. Today I use Aromasin it kills Aromatase so I

don't get this dam rebound and from what I have read it's better for you and

better on lipid levels.

I take 12.5 mgs every 3 to 5 days works in 2 hrs.

====================================================

How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your

to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to

make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on

your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I

went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or

how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low

until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your

night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you

get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you

can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to

cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge

razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your

levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day

after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said

>90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time

and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the

day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could

not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the

Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex

my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we

went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was

on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low

you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels

back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after

playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3

days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down

so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with

lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your

lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down

from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need

..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this

to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading

back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets

me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Big Biceps <biceps72@...>

> Subject: HCG and Androgel

> " " < >

> Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 4:06 PM

> question

>

> How many out there use androgel ( daily dose?) and also use

> HCG ( weekly dose).

>

> Ig you do use androgel and HCG do you need armidex?  If

> yes (dose?)

>

> thanks to all.

>

>

>      

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil, love your support and posts but it seems when we discuss a new med and I

have researched, you start another one instead which makes me rethink your prior

recommendation.

I have a potentially awkward Endo appointment today and all ready to ask him for

anastrozole, now you mention another E2 drug, I have to google.... thanks

Re: HCG and Androgel

Big,

When I was on Androgel my Estradiol was very high and my TT levels were not all

that great. I am on shots now and was able to get better levels of TT but this

made my Estradiol levels go up but still there were not as bad as they were on

Androgel.

Test your Estradiol levels if your less then 50 but over 30 with a good mid

level of SHBG then try Arimidex .25 mgs every 2 to 3 days. I stopped Arimidex

because my Estradiol levels were rebounding on me very bad. If your above 50

then do .5 mgs every other day. Today I use Aromasin it kills Aromatase so I

don't get this dam rebound and from what I have read it's better for you and

better on lipid levels.

I take 12.5 mgs every 3 to 5 days works in 2 hrs.

====================================================

How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your

to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to

make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on

your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I

went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or

how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low

until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to contr

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

What are your labs on this to tell get up in the morning take a shower washing

off the old gel then go do your labs before putting on the gel. This way you

don't spike up your labs or put on the gel keeping it off the area they take the

blood from and do your labs 6 hrs. later. If your labs are very low less then

600 your dose is not enough unless you feel OK at a lower dose.

It's a dam good idea to add in some HCG 250 IU's every 3 days on gels this keeps

your LH cells working and your testis working.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> >question

> >

> >How many out there use androgel ( daily dose?) and also

> use HCG ( weekly dose).

> >

> >Ig you do use androgel and HCG do you need armidex? 

> If yes (dose?)

> >

> >thanks to all.

> >

> >

> >     

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I did not say anything about it until I tired it my self I feel if you can get

Aromasin 25 mgs cut them in half they work much better less problems.

Hardasnails and I have been trying it he has his men on it doing very well.

It works very fast 2 hrs and has a shorter half like 2 to 3 days. But if one

goes to low on it it will take longer to come back up.

I started on it because over the yrs. doing arimidex I needed more and more then

I read about the rebound effect it has on some men. It blocks the converson of

T to E2 Aromasin kills the Aromatase that converts it into E2. So if you go to

low your body needs to make more Aromatase to get your levels back up.

So if you can't tell when your going to low useing your night time and morning

wood to gage this don't try it.

Men that feel they can't take Arimidex due to sides should do much better on

Aromasin.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: uu1845@... <uu1845@...>

> Subject: RE: HCG and Androgel

>

> Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 11:19 AM

> Phil, love your support and posts but

> it seems when we discuss a new med and I have researched,

> you start another one instead which makes me rethink your

> prior recommendation.

>

> I have a potentially awkward Endo appointment today and all

> ready to ask him for anastrozole, now you mention another E2

> drug, I have to google.... thanks

>

> Re: HCG and Androgel

>

>

> Big,

>

> When I was on Androgel my Estradiol was very high and my

> TT levels were not all that great. I am on shots now and was

> able to get better levels of TT but this made my Estradiol

> levels go up but still there were not as bad as they were on

> Androgel.

>

> Test your Estradiol levels if your less then 50 but over

> 30 with a good mid level of SHBG then try Arimidex .25 mgs

> every 2 to 3 days. I stopped Arimidex because my Estradiol

> levels were rebounding on me very bad. If your above 50 then

> do .5 mgs every other day. Today I use Aromasin it kills

> Aromatase so I don't get this dam rebound and from what I

> have read it's better for you and better on lipid levels.

> I take 12.5 mgs every 3 to 5 days works in 2 hrs.

> ====================================================

> How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to

> Low.

>

> What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the

> length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks

> it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol.

> Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on

> your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up

> taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and

> did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so

> I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my

> next labs.

>

> The best gage I have found to contr

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had a very good endo appointment. I think I overreacted a bit. He explained

despite my high E2, armidex causes bone desenity / loss. He uses it for

fertility males as well. He said, he wants to see my next estorgen lab results.

I don't need more bone less, which low T can cause.

RE: HCG and Androgel

>

> Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 11:19 AM

> Phil, love your support and posts but

> it seems

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Man where do you guys find them Dr.'s I need to start a list of Bull Shi* Dr.'s

tell us men. If he is not up on this he needs to just say so. Men don't have

bone loss from takng Arimidex unless they took it like the women do 1mgs

everyday for a long time driving there E2 levels into the ground.

Men on Arimidex don't take them dose's he is full of it. Is he an Endo.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: uu1845@...

> <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: HCG and Androgel

> >

> > Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 11:19 AM

> > Phil, love your support and posts but

> > it seems

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow Phil, that's pretty harsh. I am not a doc so I have no idea, I haven't read

regarding bone loss as a side effect. He did say the drug worked in men and he

does use it, he also said it causes bone loss and is used as a 'short term'

solution.

Although he didn't specify why its only used up to 3-6 months. Maybe due to bone

loss and other side effects becoming a higher risk factor. No FDA med is w/o

side effects and unless a man starts to fracture bones after long term use on

Armidex, how would you know if you are not suffering from bone loss?

Ill continue to lose weight and next month see about my labs. And if I need

this, ill be prescripted it or something else...

-Have a good day-

RE: HCG and Androgel

>

> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 10:47 AM

> I had a very good endo appointment. I

> think I overreacted a bit. He explained despite my high E2,

> armidex causes bone desenity / loss. He uses it for

> fertility males as well. He said, he wants to see my next

> estorgen lab results. I don't need more bone less, which low

> T can cause.

>    

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 1:16 PM

> To:

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Look I am not being harsh I know Bull Shi* when I hear it you need to run from

this Dr. He is full of his self men come here everyday with stories about how

sick they are and it's the dam Dr. that is there problems.

He read some where women on arimidex going to low after being on Cem-O having

bone loss. I have talked to men all over the world using arimidex and never

once heard of them having bone loss from being on this med. And I have heard of

men with low levels of T and Dr.'s like this one telling them they are fine they

are in the normal range yet under 300 and sneeze and break ribs from low

Testosteone.

You don't need to take my word for it you can try to lose weight with high

levels of E2 spend yrs trying this and being sick from the high levels. Or find

a better Dr.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: uu1845@...

> <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: HCG and Androgel

> >

> > Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 10:47 AM

> > I had a very good endo appointment. I

> > think I overreacted a bit. He explained despite my

> high E2,

> > armidex causes bone desenity / loss. He uses it for

> > fertility males as well. He said, he wants to see my

> next

> > estorgen lab results. I don't need more bone less,

> which low

> > T can cause.

> >    

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

> > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 1:16 PM

> > To:

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

uu, both the doc and Phil are right. One side effect from lowering estrogen TOO

MUCH (i.e. taking E2/estradiol below 20pg/mL) is shifting the balance of bone

metabolism toward bone loss. That's why Phil and everyone else here who talks

about using any E2 lowering med underscores the need for labs to track E2 (in

addition to personal symptoms like wood). Well-controlled E2 (20-30 pg/mL)

should not bring this problem. Going a little on the low side of E2 once or

twice in the process of learning to control it isn't going to kill you (think

about how many times your hormones may have been imbalanced before!)

If your E2 is high or becomes high while using some med, it's worth tracking,

knowing, and deciding if you want to live that way. You can avoid the E2

balancing game but then potentially have weak bones from any number of other

factors, like lack of resistance bearing activity, low growth hormone/igf,

inadequate vitamins K & D, inadequate mineral intake, inadequate protein intake

(or excessive protein intake?), inadequate muscle mass to protect bones from

injury, etc. Or you might get your T where you need it to be, work out and get

in shape, and taking other measures to reduce excessive conversion to E2 and

*never need to take Arimidex*. It really depends on what you can afford and

commit to doing.

You and others here can vouch for how we men can become sluggish and unmotivated

as E2 goes high ( & /or as testosterone goes low) and put themselves at risk for

the other factors which promote bone density loss. Lack of motivation and the

lack of self care that follows can be just as lethal as a medication side

effect.

Not an ad for pharma but a thought to consider against the misguided medical

conservative mindset of " watchful waiting " . Bodies do not stay in stasis- they

are either getting healthier or becoming more ill.

~Xian

>

> > From: uu1845@... <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: HCG and Androgel

> >

> > Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 10:47 AM

> > I had a very good endo appointment. I

> > think I overreacted a bit. He explained despite my high E2,

> > armidex causes bone desenity / loss. He uses it for

> > fertility males as well. He said, he wants to see my next

> > estorgen lab results. I don't need more bone less, which low

> > T can cause.

> >    

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

> > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 1:16 PM

> > To:

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil, you know I hold your opinions and suggestions highly! However, if a male

hasn't had a bone density test or another test that indicates bone loss, how can

anyone state whether he or she doesn't suffer from it?

It is a drug that isn't used primarily on men long term for high E2. I am just

trying to POV my doc. I cannot see why he would purposely stop my growth in

health.

And he told me its a very expensive drug and most health co, doesn't cover it.

RE: HCG and Androgel

>

> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 1:28 PM

> Wow Phil, that's pretty harsh. I am

> not a doc so I have no idea, I haven't read regarding bone

> loss as a side effect. He did say the drug wo

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Yea Yea Yea he said this or that did you know BCBS pays for Arimidex use in men

and most Drug Stores will tell you they sell more Arimidex to men then women.

Yes men with low T it's a given to look them over and if they have what looks to

a good Dr. like bone loss do a bone test. I have one every yr.

Look at me I am crippled because I was put on Statin Drugs after Heart Bypass

Surgery and when I told my Dr. he was wrong about my pain being something like

my age and I was stopping it. My Wife and two Daughters got very up set both

were crying that if I did not take them meds I would die so I did now look at

me.

But who am I to say I am not a Dr. and most Dr.'s are not Dr.'s.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: uu1845@...

> <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: HCG and Androgel

> >

> > Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 1:28 PM

> > Wow Phil, that's pretty harsh. I am

> > not a doc so I have no idea, I haven't read regarding

> bone

> > loss as a side effect. He did say the drug wo

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Two daughters? I am single Phil... I am sorry for your health problems, but that

doc who gave you that drug, did you and your family wrong. If my doc uses

Armidex on males, I guess if he didn't think it was in my best interest now, I

canot see him wanting to harm me. Phil, continue to improve on your health. Let

us know how the latest 'Tour of Duty' game plays on your video console.

RE: HCG and Androgel

>

> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:47 PM

> Phil, you know I hold your opinions

> and suggestions highly! However, if a male hasn't had a bone

> density test or another test that indicates bone loss, how

> can anyone state whether he or she doesn't suffer from it?

>

> I

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Yes all I am trying to do is get the point across most of the problems men have

with there health is there Dr.

I have been at this over 30 yrs. If I only had the money I wasted on Dam Dumb

A** Dr.'s I would be rich.

I got sick after a bad Auto Accident by a drunk and there was a lawsuit. So

when I told Dr.'s I was seeing I got sick after a auto accident each one

dismissed the Head Injury I had from it as to being why I was sick. You know

why because I had a lawsuit going on and they don't want to end up in court on

my behalf. It's a long story.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/stories-of-others/phils-story/

Your not going to get me to believe your Dr. is any good from what your saying

here. Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken. Men come here day after

day and when we tell them there Dr. is the wrong Dr. they don't buy it. But as

they read posts older ones they find many posts from men saying the same thing

your saying and finding out there Dr. was the wrong Dr. for them.

Problem is when men come here find a better Dr. get fixed they stop posting you

don't hear back from them. This is just the way it is.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: uu1845@...

> <uu1845@...>

> > Subject: RE: HCG and Androgel

> >

> > Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:47 PM

> > Phil, you know I hold your opinions

> > and suggestions highly! However, if a male hasn't had

> a bone

> > density test or another test that indicates bone

> loss, how

> > can anyone state whether he or she doesn't suffer

> from it?

> >

> > I

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

I hear you these docs are ignorant...not knowing that lowering high e to normal

levels won't hurt bones.

> >

> > > From: uu1845@...

> > <uu1845@...>

> > > Subject: RE: HCG and Androgel

> > >

> > > Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 11:19 AM

> > > Phil, love your support and posts but

> > > it seems

> >

> > [The entire original message is not included]

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

How do you know they won't hurt bones long term in men? Have you read case

studies on men? I am not conradicting you or anyone else. However we are not

docs and being w/o TRT can cause bone loss. This I am afraid of especially as I

age.

RE: HCG and Androgel

> >

> > Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 10:47 AM

> > I had a very good endo appointment. I

> > think I overreacted a bit. He explained despite my high E2,

> > armidex causes bone desenity / loss. He uses it for

> > fertility males as well. He said, he wants to see my next

> > estorgen lab results. I don't need more bone less, which low

> > T can cause.

> >    

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> >

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Look your asking this all the time why are you hear when they came out with

Arimidex it was for lowering E2 levels in women with breast cancer. They did a

double blind study for women this cost for this is over the top so they are not

going to redo them for men. You will not find studies about this in men. If

you need a study don't use it suffer.

In stead of asking us for studies on every thing why don't your look for them

and if your find some post them.

I am sorry but it's getting old all ready.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: uu1845@... <uu1845@...>

> Subject: RE: HCG and Androgel

>

> Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 10:39 AM

> How do you know they won't hurt bones

> long term in men? Have you read case studies on men? I am

> not conradicting you or anyone else. However we are not docs

> and being w/o TRT can cause bone loss. This I am afraid of

> especially as I age.

>

> RE: HCG and Androgel

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 10:47 AM

> > > I had a very good endo appointment. I

> > > think I overreacted a bit. He explained despite

> my high E2,

> > > armidex causes bone desenity / loss. He uses it

> for

> > > fertility males as well. He said, he wants to

> see my next

> > > estorgen lab results. I don't need more bone

> less, which low

> > > T can cause.

> > >    

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > >

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>