Re: Testosterone Tumbling in American Males

[Guest guest]

Brad that is a very interesting article about the dropping testosterone level

in older men by the year. Wonder what is going on?

Blessings,

Rly

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Man-Made endocrine disrupting chemicals such as the phthalates, DDT,

DDE, PCB's, other pesticides, bisphenol-A, and certain popular

prescription meds with exposure from the conception on.

See the book " Our Stolen Future: are we threatening our

fertility, intelligence and survival?--a scientific

detective story " by Colburn, Dumanoski, and Myers for

a popular account.

Then add in the weight gains being seen in both young

and old such that a higher percentage are overweight or

obese than in the past. More fat tissue results in

more estrogen as I recall.

>

> Brad that is a very interesting article about the dropping

testosterone level

> in older men by the year. Wonder what is going on?

> Blessings,

> Rly

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone

call rates.

>

>

[Guest guest]

There are actually numerous ways low T can occur. One main way is, OLD AGE.

I do think when an older male comes in with ED problems, he receives incorrect

information at times. One of the side effects of low T, is ED which isn't still

known in why and how.

The human body doesn't stay young and firm forever. As human beings get older,

the body also gets older and amends. The body amends differently, given not

every older male will experience low T, etc.

********************************************************************************\

********

Elliot those are very good logistical reasons that you have given excellent

deduction. I know because I am 83 and have lifetime experience in that

field. I have been given so much bad information that it takes a real sieve

to determine the truth.

Actually in sufferers varies from individual to indivitual and how he his life

style etc. I for one after being on testosterone now for well over 20 years

am just beginning to reap the benefits of treatment in spite of the Endo's

that I have seen. They just don't get the picture. The last one did not know

that Estradiol was an important factor in libido, drive or ED. He looked up

Arimidex in his little Ipod and says, " Well yes it is in here so I can write

a script for it but I don't know the dosage. " I said I know the dosage so

if you will do that for me I will appreciate it. It is expensive but it is

worth

it as it goes a long ways in correcting E2. My first E2 was 59 before!

To sum up after I joined this group I have learned a lot about correct

treatment and what others have experienced and benefited from.

I hadn't had erections in the mornings for years now just this past

week I had two very hard ones when I turned over it woke me up because

it bent it of course. Then I went back to sleep and there it was again

when I woke up. I didn't think I would ever get to the point of having

nocturnal erections again but you can if you get the hormones back

in balance. Two Endos said it wouldn't happen. I have news for them

I even have sex and sometimes I actually climax again which has been

years in the coming (cumming) ) Dan if you read this you know now

that I am getting in the ball park. I don't know where Phil has gone

haven't seen him in a week or so, hope he is OK. So that is my

story guys and I feel great except for my neuropathy in my feet

which has nothing to do with hormones. Oh yes I had another ONE

this morning, Halllllleeeeuuuaaa! My wife is happy again! Ha!

Blessings,

Roy

---------------------------------

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done faster.

[Guest guest]

Phil will be back soon.

Brad

> There are actually numerous ways low T can occur. One main

way is, OLD AGE.

> I do think when an older male comes in with ED problems, he receives

incorrect information at times. One of the side effects of low T, is

ED which isn't still known in why and how.

>

> The human body doesn't stay young and firm forever. As human beings

get older, the body also gets older and amends. The body amends

differently, given not every older male will experience low T, etc.

********************************************************************************\

********

>

> Elliot those are very good logistical reasons that you have given

excellent

> deduction. I know because I am 83 and have lifetime experience in that

> field. I have been given so much bad information that it takes a

real sieve

> to determine the truth.

>

> Actually in sufferers varies from individual to indivitual and how

he his life

> style etc. I for one after being on testosterone now for well over

20 years

> am just beginning to reap the benefits of treatment in spite of the

Endo's

> that I have seen. They just don't get the picture. The last one did

not know

> that Estradiol was an important factor in libido, drive or ED. He

looked up

> Arimidex in his little Ipod and says, " Well yes it is in here so I

can write

> a script for it but I don't know the dosage. " I said I know the

dosage so

> if you will do that for me I will appreciate it. It is expensive but

it is worth

> it as it goes a long ways in correcting E2. My first E2 was 59 before!

>

> To sum up after I joined this group I have learned a lot about correct

> treatment and what others have experienced and benefited from.

> I hadn't had erections in the mornings for years now just this past

> week I had two very hard ones when I turned over it woke me up because

> it bent it of course. Then I went back to sleep and there it was again

> when I woke up. I didn't think I would ever get to the point of having

> nocturnal erections again but you can if you get the hormones back

> in balance. Two Endos said it wouldn't happen. I have news for them

> I even have sex and sometimes I actually climax again which has been

> years in the coming (cumming) ) Dan if you read this you know now

> that I am getting in the ball park. I don't know where Phil has gone

> haven't seen him in a week or so, hope he is OK. So that is my

> story guys and I feel great except for my neuropathy in my feet

> which has nothing to do with hormones. Oh yes I had another ONE

> this morning, Halllllleeeeuuuaaa! My wife is happy again! Ha!

> Blessings,

> Roy

>

> ---------------------------------

> Check out the New - Fire up a more powerful email and

get things done faster.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Elliot,

It's very sad to relaize how seldom people take routine health

screening seriously. If you were an adult before a problem was

discovered in this day and age, that is neglect on someone's part.

Every year... " EVERY " year I schedule a complete physical for my

children and for us. Their physicals are intended to be

preventative. I think a Physician and or parent would notice

something as serious as a child not developing properly. Maybe I'm

different but I'll tell you I sure would have.

Water under the bridge now. Now you are in charge and taking

command. What was is history and today is up to you! Vickie

as the In , ELLIOT BAKER

<elliotbkr@...> wrote:

>

> Thanks for agreeing Mr . Sometimes when I read older males

going thru side effects of low T, I get heedless because I have

experienced it since a child.

>

> I wish I knew as a teen, erections, libldo, etc should have been a

common thing. Due to very low T and suffering from the side effects

since a child but importantly, never knowing I had this problem, I

didn't know wanting to have sex with someone was desired and

masturbation was normal. If you don't have the desire, I hope folks

can understand your mind won't have the demand and thus, you won't

interact.

>

> I still feel masturbation isn't normal, rather dirty and an escape

just like when someone abuses a drug.

>

> It didn't help me once realizing around 13, that my genitalia stop

growing and I wasn't going thru puberty normally as others my age.

Once I realized my penis was small and I figured it wasn't getting

bigger, the emotional side effects of low T, came forward and I

NEVER thought about being with a female in that form.

>

> So, allot of times I didn't try to attract because I knew, I

wouldn't be able to pleasure her then and now. I guess, allot of the

side effect from depression, stems from how you view yourself.

>

> It is a chemical unbalance as well but, if you know your

genitialia is smaller, and the whole world tells you bigger is

better including females, that will make you hate yourself further

on top of the chemical unbalance low T causes. Add other emotional

problems from low T, and you have a serious mental problem, that can

effect any low T male, and it did with me.

>

>

> It must suck for normal healthy males to stop having erections,

etc and then start developing hypogonadism side effects. This site

does help and it helped me to profound degrees.

>

> BTW, good for you Mr in knowing how to use the net and a

PC. Some older folks have trepidation toward technology. Never to

old to learn; now I am on TRT I should not have the emotional

difficulties toward a higher education and interacting with humans

who still scare me a bit, especially those I wish I could be and

date.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Messenger's cheap PC-to-

Phone call rates.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Elliot,

I hope you continue to find good support. Now that you understand

what has happened to your body..yes it pisses a man off,

but...moving forward is about the most important thing one can do at

this juncture. I would like 3 healthy kids but I have 2 (18 and 27)

left and neither are without serious life altering challenges. They

are happy and productive because they know this is it...this is the

only plate handed to them and how they choose to live is up to them.

Starvng themselves with anger while life sits on their plate is a

waste of good nurishment...a waste of their soul.

If I could tell you a thousand things we did right with our

children, one of whom is now gone, I would also have to explain the

thousand things we did wrong. It's a crap shoot Elliot. Hit and

miss, this parenting thing. Docs...well, that's another story. Of

course they should have seen a problem and you should have been

watched more closely for development patterns. No one can change

that now. The sad facts are history, something none of can change.

YOU are now in charge! What happened is not a good thing but you are

taking command and where that takes you at this point is very much

up to you. It won't be easy but it is necesary.

Start with forgiveness. Life does sometimes suck! Anger is a cancer

that destroys us from the inside out Elliot. No amount of therapy,

testosterone or sex is going to make one iota difference as long as

anger runs the show. It's okay to be angry...for a while. But, when

it is harming, not helping it's time to move forward. Did anyone

ever tell you that stress depletes hormones? It depletes every good

enzyme and hormone in the body. Decide the direction you want to

take..... Now you run the show. Please don't let anger continue as

the star. This is your life...the only show in town!

I wish you peace and happiness, Vickie

In , ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...>

wrote:

>

> Its wonderful to read a parent taking positive control over

health, etc within their child or children existence. Unfortunately,

not every parent shares within that notion. Too many parents leave

every medical decision(s) and discovery(ies) up to doctors that may

not have the patient care as primary.

>

> My situation was and is rare. Doctors told my parents I simply

pulled something leading to my testis up-scending, which was a lie.

I guess from a medical conclusion, if doctors believed my testis was

up-scended simply from me pulling or straning something, then the

surgery was a success. I ask myself daily after realizing why I

suffered, why wasnt my hormonal levels tested for some form of

abnormality. I tried to reach out on how I felt. No one cared enough.

>

> I mentioned, puberty wasn't devoloping for me in full, but I guess

I didnt explain it properly to my family physican and parents at the

time. I mentioned to my mom at 13, my gentialia stopped growing

leading to my first year of mental breakdown.

> I simply shut down after that day.

>

> Water-under-the-bridge, may seem ideal in theory, but trying to

over come years of side effects and never knowing what most males in

here have experienced, seems........ It's baby steps for me, and Im

not going to continue and explain why. Im tired of explaining to

people who refuse to research or assume, hey I have hypogonadism,

blah blah blah. Or, I have been sick blah blah blah.

>

>

> I try to explain, Im 29 and was born with a birth defect that was

mis diagnosed. TRT could have corrected this problem pre-puberty but

unfortuately wasn't. If my parents were more like you, perhaps they

would have picked up on my social and emotional withdraws, learning

disabilities, never dating, etc.

>

> I havent killed myself for reasons I know are valid and profound,

nor have I abused anything other than porn. Some how, without

support while still living as a virgin and out-cast, I will become

something profound and successful. Thanks Vickie, and continue to be

a super parent and never take anything your children say or do with

a naive and heedless mentality. Ask questions if you must, and if

their grades are poor, work with them and see if a more serious

problem is the cause. Love and support them no matter what. Never

make them feel like a failure.

>

>

> Vickie <plp40@...> wrote: Elliot,

> It's very sad to relaize how seldom people take routine health

> screening seriously. If you were an adult before a problem was

> discovered in this day and age, that is neglect on someone's part.

> Every year... " EVERY " year I schedule a complete physical for my

> children and for us. Their physicals are intended to be

> preventative. I think a Physician and or parent would notice

> something as serious as a child not developing properly. Maybe I'm

> different but I'll tell you I sure would have.

> Water under the bridge now. Now you are in charge and taking

> command. What was is history and today is up to you! Vickie

>

>

> as the In , ELLIOT BAKER

> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks for agreeing Mr . Sometimes when I read older

males

> going thru side effects of low T, I get heedless because I have

> experienced it since a child.

> >

> > I wish I knew as a teen, erections, libldo, etc should have been

a

> common thing. Due to very low T and suffering from the side

effects

> since a child but importantly, never knowing I had this problem, I

> didn't know wanting to have sex with someone was desired and

> masturbation was normal. If you don't have the desire, I hope

folks

> can understand your mind won't have the demand and thus, you won't

> interact.

> >

> > I still feel masturbation isn't normal, rather dirty and an

escape

> just like when someone abuses a drug.

> >

> > It didn't help me once realizing around 13, that my genitalia

stop

> growing and I wasn't going thru puberty normally as others my age.

> Once I realized my penis was small and I figured it wasn't getting

> bigger, the emotional side effects of low T, came forward and I

> NEVER thought about being with a female in that form.

> >

> > So, allot of times I didn't try to attract because I knew, I

> wouldn't be able to pleasure her then and now. I guess, allot of

the

> side effect from depression, stems from how you view yourself.

> >

> > It is a chemical unbalance as well but, if you know your

> genitialia is smaller, and the whole world tells you bigger is

> better including females, that will make you hate yourself further

> on top of the chemical unbalance low T causes. Add other emotional

> problems from low T, and you have a serious mental problem, that

can

> effect any low T male, and it did with me.

> >

> >

> > It must suck for normal healthy males to stop having erections,

> etc and then start developing hypogonadism side effects. This site

> does help and it helped me to profound degrees.

> >

> > BTW, good for you Mr in knowing how to use the net and a

> PC. Some older folks have trepidation toward technology. Never to

> old to learn; now I am on TRT I should not have the emotional

> difficulties toward a higher education and interacting with humans

> who still scare me a bit, especially those I wish I could be and

> date.

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Messenger's cheap PC-to-

> Phone call rates.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

That was a sweet post, Vicky. Very Nice

> > >

> > > Thanks for agreeing Mr . Sometimes when I read older

> males

> > going thru side effects of low T, I get heedless because I have

> > experienced it since a child.

> > >

> > > I wish I knew as a teen, erections, libldo, etc should have

been

> a

> > common thing. Due to very low T and suffering from the side

> effects

> > since a child but importantly, never knowing I had this problem,

I

> > didn't know wanting to have sex with someone was desired and

> > masturbation was normal. If you don't have the desire, I hope

> folks

> > can understand your mind won't have the demand and thus, you

won't

> > interact.

> > >

> > > I still feel masturbation isn't normal, rather dirty and an

> escape

> > just like when someone abuses a drug.

> > >

> > > It didn't help me once realizing around 13, that my genitalia

> stop

> > growing and I wasn't going thru puberty normally as others my

age.

> > Once I realized my penis was small and I figured it wasn't

getting

> > bigger, the emotional side effects of low T, came forward and I

> > NEVER thought about being with a female in that form.

> > >

> > > So, allot of times I didn't try to attract because I knew, I

> > wouldn't be able to pleasure her then and now. I guess, allot of

> the

> > side effect from depression, stems from how you view yourself.

> > >

> > > It is a chemical unbalance as well but, if you know your

> > genitialia is smaller, and the whole world tells you bigger is

> > better including females, that will make you hate yourself

further

> > on top of the chemical unbalance low T causes. Add other

emotional

> > problems from low T, and you have a serious mental problem, that

> can

> > effect any low T male, and it did with me.

> > >

> > >

> > > It must suck for normal healthy males to stop having erections,

> > etc and then start developing hypogonadism side effects. This

site

> > does help and it helped me to profound degrees.

> > >

> > > BTW, good for you Mr in knowing how to use the net and

a

> > PC. Some older folks have trepidation toward technology. Never to

> > old to learn; now I am on TRT I should not have the emotional

> > difficulties toward a higher education and interacting with

humans

> > who still scare me a bit, especially those I wish I could be and

> > date.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Messenger's cheap PC-to-

> > Phone call rates.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

W,

I mean this in the most kind way. Elliot may have some of your

physical traits in common but his over all situation is very

different than yours. You and Elliot can be of great support to one

another in this group...as everyone is regardless....and my comment

about stress depleting our reserves in hormones etc...I hope you

will read the research out there. Many of our hormones are affected

by long term stress.....so try to worry less and try to be happier

more maybe? May sound like a pipe dream but it's free so no loss in

investing with potential for long term wealth!

Good Luck, Vickie

In , paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

>

> ELIOT take it from me i know how you are feeling as i

> am about the same,its ok to say let go of the anger

> and hurt but if its still there and not resolved in

> anyway then it wont go away.

>

> we are how we are partially becasuee of how our

> horrmones are not working corrreclty,i dont beleive

> its thye other way round,i dont think being posiitvie

> has any affect on hormones,if it was was then none of

> use would be having hormonal issues males or

> females,the fact is hormones control so much of ourr

> being and if not well balanced then we feel bad and

> have bad emotional experiances more.

>

>

>

> as for taking charge yes its a long slow process but

> is not simple especialy as with both the genital

> issues and my adhd/asperger/dyspraxia issues i have to

> fight with social serrvice and health providers to

> help me,only this week my local nurses department has

> sent me a letter saying due to my nurse being off sick

> for now a few weeks and seems a few weeks more they

> dont have staff or funding to see any of her clients!!

>

> whixch means all her clients incliuding me get no

> nurse at all till she is back at work!!!

>

>

> whixh means my weekly blood pressure checks plus her

> helping me with exercise and she was supposed to be

> keeping eye on me in immediate affect of taking

> ritalin whih i am supposed to take soon if my own

> phyciatrist listens to my specialist who has

> recomenedd it that is.

>

>

> wht can i do ,my hands are tied ,i cant get a nurse

> its hard to book to see ones own doctor or nurses at

> the local practice,my phyciatrist takes no note of

> what my specialists says,i am in his hands i cant

> control a thing its not im my power.

>

> even whhen endo suggested trt which i had not asked

> for or wanted my phyciatrist immedialtelyt blocked it

> as he has in past with cocerta and hopefully not

> ritalin as my spcialist has said i am ok to try it,if

> that is looked after well,sadly with no nurse being

> available to monitor me i may be delayed again on

> medication due to there staffing issues,again not my

> fault and not in my power at all

>

> very nice email of support vicky and well appreciated

> by me and prob eliot as well but its so dam hard for

> me and i can see the same pain for eliot

>

> eliot

>

> promachief is my messenger id if you wish a

> chat,though i warn you i am not a very positive person

> like you life has dealt me a load of knocks i cant

> deal with

>

>

> but least we can get depressed together

>

> regards paul

>

>

>

> > > up-scended simply from me pulling or straning

> > something, then the

> > > surgery was a success. I ask myself daily after

> > realizing why I

> > > suffered, why wasnt my hormonal levels tested for

> > some form of

> > > abnormality. I tried to reach out on how I felt.

> > No one cared

> > enough.

> > > >

> > > > I mentioned, puberty wasn't devoloping for me in

> > full, but I

> > guess

> > > I didnt explain it properly to my family physican

> > and parents at

> > the

> > > time. I mentioned to my mom at 13, my gentialia

> > stopped growing

> > > leading to my first year of mental breakdown.

> > > > I simply shut down after that day.

> > > >

> > > > Water-under-the-bridge, may seem ideal in

> > theory, but trying to

> > > over come years of side effects and never knowing

> > what most males

> > in

> > > here have experienced, seems........ It's baby

> > steps for me, and Im

> > > not going to continue and explain why. Im tired of

> > explaining to

> > > people who refuse to research or assume, hey I

> > have hypogonadism,

> > > blah blah blah. Or, I have been sick blah blah

> > blah.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I try to explain, Im 29 and was born with a

> > birth defect that was

> > > mis diagnosed. TRT could have corrected this

> > problem pre-puberty

> > but

> > > unfortuately wasn't. If my parents were more like

> > you, perhaps they

> > > would have picked up on my social and emotional

> > withdraws, learning

> > > disabilities, never dating, etc.

> > > >

> > > > I havent killed myself for reasons I know are

> > valid and profound,

> > > nor have I abused anything other than porn. Some

> > how, without

> > > support while still living as a virgin and

> > out-cast, I will become

> > > something profound and successful. Thanks Vickie,

> > and continue to

> > be

> > > a super parent and never take anything your

> > children say or do with

> > > a naive and heedless mentality. Ask questions if

> > you must, and if

> > > their grades are poor, work with them and see if a

> > more serious

> > > problem is the cause. Love and support them no

> > matter what. Never

> > > make them feel like a failure.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vickie <plp40@> wrote: Elliot,

> > > > It's very sad to relaize how seldom people take

> > routine health

> > > > screening seriously. If you were an adult before

> > a problem was

> > > > discovered in this day and age, that is neglect

> > on someone's part.

> > > > Every year... " EVERY " year I schedule a complete

> > physical for my

> > > > children and for us. Their physicals are

> > intended to be

> > > > preventative. I think a Physician and or parent

> > would notice

> > > > something as serious as a child not developing

> > properly. Maybe

> > I'm

> > > > different but I'll tell you I sure would have.

> > > > Water under the bridge now. Now you are in

> > charge and taking

> > > > command. What was is history and today is up to

> > you! Vickie

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > as the In ,

> > ELLIOT BAKER

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for agreeing Mr . Sometimes when

> > I read older

> > > males

> > > > going thru side effects of low T, I get heedless

> > because I have

> > > > experienced it since a child.

> > > > >

> > > > > I wish I knew as a teen, erections, libldo,

> > etc should have

> > been

> > > a

> > > > common thing. Due to very low T and suffering

> > from the side

> > > effects

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.

>

[Guest guest]

,

I understand more than you relize. My oldest daughter has severe

learning disabilities (Di syndrome). Although not the same as

yours, we do have that as a constant challenge functionally and

socially. She won't be independent but she is productive.

I read your posts and think how very intelligent you are. Believe it

or not...you're able to communicate your thoughts very well. The

internet has given you such an ability to help yourself and others.

You may find an acceptable solution to much of your physical /

testosterone issues with all the incredible effeort you put into it.

I hope the Ritilan is a good start! Good Luck, Vickie

In , paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

>

> hi mine and eliots sound very much alike

>

> i have learning diabikites that mean i cant read much

> or take much in ,thats why i cant researrch things in

> detail i can glance overr them but then just get

> overloaded by it all

>

> whixh is why i am unable to work or live independantly

>

>

>

>

> the problems i have with my genitals started to be

> noiteced only at puberty and my othwer issues of being

> on own and not wanting to participtate in

> anything,lethargy,feeling totally alein to my peers

> started way back for me knowing at about 6,my parents

> knew someything was wrong with me emotionally at about

> 3 as apparently i was not developping emotionally same

> as my brrother and sis or indeed my peers and as soone

> as i started school i knew i did not fit in ,bullyinf

> starrted from that first day at school the sexual

> isssues and not having any visible testicles added on

> to this when 11 and going in for spiort at school

> which i detested and by end of first years i refused

> ever to do any more sports becasue of how i hated it.

>

> i never mixed with other kids and never knew whats

> being a guy was supposed to be,never dated,never

> parties,never had major hormonal issues at puberty,it

> seemed to get everyone else but not me .

>

>

> its vwery hard to be positive when you are male and

> dont act male in any way,and by time i am now 40 dont

> even want to i want to be rid of my genitals as they

> have caused me nothing but grief and are useless for

> any manly purpose.

>

>

> but the horrmonal issues came from witihn they are not

> perpetuated by how i feel if that was the case as

> saaid none of us would have hormonal issues,we would

> just be happpy and all our probs would go away,in real

> life that rarely happens ,not saying it does not,sfor

> some positivity is a boost for me it means running

> away from the problems

>

> for years i attempted to work and get on with my

> life,i was just palying at it,putiing on a smile a

> joke [often about my genitals] now i realise one has

> to see ones prroblems and seek help,sadly the help is

> hard to come by

>

>

> if one has a short attention span as i do then trying

> to help ioneself is not easy as within a couple of

> mins i anm bored and want to do something else.

>

>

> my life is in slow motion things most people do daiuly

> takes me all week

>

> i was on one day,shave another,bather evey 3 weeks or

> so,go out every 4 days or so,clean teeth every 3 days

> or so,if i do all or attempt all in one day i get

> overloaded and hyper

> which leads to more temper meltdowns.

>

> so i take life at a slow pace and even that can be too

> fast sometimes

>

>

> with help of others then its a bit better but getting

> that help in uk is difficult,adhd and aspergers there

> is little help let alone adult help.

>

> some say well all get together and support each

> other,but that misses the point we are as aspiergers

> loners how thwenhell do we gwet together,if we did it

> would be like a war with all in the room disagreeing

> as infact we do on support email groups,help has to be

> one to one not group.

>

>

> anyway just hoping i get my ritalin soon and just see

> if it works or does not.

>

> regards and as said your support is valued but its

> harder if you have learrning dissabiities and lifelong

> low testosteron like i have and i beleive eliot has by

> what he says

>

>

> regards paul

>

> --- Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

>

> > W,

> > I mean this in the most kind way. Elliot may have

> > some of your

> > physical traits in common but his over all situation

> > is very

> > different than yours. You and Elliot can be of great

> > support to one

> > another in this group...as everyone is

> > regardless....and my comment

> > about stress depleting our reserves in hormones

> > etc...I hope you

> > will read the research out there. Many of our

> > hormones are affected

> > by long term stress.....so try to worry less and try

> > to be happier

> > more maybe? May sound like a pipe dream but it's

> > free so no loss in

> > investing with potential for long term wealth!

> > Good Luck, Vickie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > In , paul wey

> > <promachief@> wrote:

> > >

> > > ELIOT take it from me i know how you are feeling

> > as i

> > > am about the same,its ok to say let go of the

> > anger

> > > and hurt but if its still there and not resolved

> > in

> > > anyway then it wont go away.

> > >

> > > we are how we are partially becasuee of how our

> > > horrmones are not working corrreclty,i dont

> > beleive

> > > its thye other way round,i dont think being

> > posiitvie

> > > has any affect on hormones,if it was was then none

> > of

> > > use would be having hormonal issues males or

> > > females,the fact is hormones control so much of

> > ourr

> > > being and if not well balanced then we feel bad

> > and

> > > have bad emotional experiances more.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > as for taking charge yes its a long slow process

> > but

> > > is not simple especialy as with both the genital

> > > issues and my adhd/asperger/dyspraxia issues i

> > have to

> > > fight with social serrvice and health providers to

> > > help me,only this week my local nurses department

> > has

> > > sent me a letter saying due to my nurse being off

> > sick

> > > for now a few weeks and seems a few weeks more

> > they

> > > dont have staff or funding to see any of her

> > clients!!

> > >

> > > whixch means all her clients incliuding me get no

> > > nurse at all till she is back at work!!!

> > >

> > >

> > > whixh means my weekly blood pressure checks plus

> > her

> > > helping me with exercise and she was supposed to

> > be

> > > keeping eye on me in immediate affect of taking

> > > ritalin whih i am supposed to take soon if my own

> > > phyciatrist listens to my specialist who has

> > > recomenedd it that is.

> > >

> > >

> > > wht can i do ,my hands are tied ,i cant get a

> > nurse

> > > its hard to book to see ones own doctor or nurses

> > at

> > > the local practice,my phyciatrist takes no note of

> > > what my specialists says,i am in his hands i cant

> > > control a thing its not im my power.

> > >

> > > even whhen endo suggested trt which i had not

> > asked

> > > for or wanted my phyciatrist immedialtelyt blocked

> > it

> > > as he has in past with cocerta and hopefully not

> > > ritalin as my spcialist has said i am ok to try

> > it,if

> > > that is looked after well,sadly with no nurse

> > being

> > > available to monitor me i may be delayed again on

> > > medication due to there staffing issues,again not

> > my

> > > fault and not in my power at all

> > >

> > > very nice email of support vicky and well

> > appreciated

> > > by me and prob eliot as well but its so dam hard

> > for

> > > me and i can see the same pain for eliot

> > >

> > > eliot

> > >

> > > promachief is my messenger id if you wish a

> > > chat,though i warn you i am not a very positive

> > person

> > > like you life has dealt me a load of knocks i cant

> > > deal with

> > >

> > >

> > > but least we can get depressed together

> > >

> > > regards paul

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > > up-scended simply from me pulling or straning

> > > > something, then the

> > > > > surgery was a success. I ask myself daily

> > after

> > > > realizing why I

> > > > > suffered, why wasnt my hormonal levels tested

> > for

> > > > some form of

> > > > > abnormality. I tried to reach out on how I

> > felt.

> > > > No one cared

> > > > enough.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I mentioned, puberty wasn't devoloping for

> > me in

> > > > full, but I

> > > > guess

> > > > > I didnt explain it properly to my family

> > physican

> > > > and parents at

> > > > the

> > > > > time. I mentioned to my mom at 13, my

> > gentialia

> > > > stopped growing

> > > > > leading to my first year of mental breakdown.

> > > > > > I simply shut down after that day.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Water-under-the-bridge, may seem ideal in

> > > > theory, but trying to

> > > > > over come years of side effects and never

> > knowing

> > > > what most males

> > > > in

> > > > > here have experienced, seems........ It's baby

> > > > steps for me, and Im

> > > > > not going to continue and explain why. Im

> > tired of

> > > > explaining to

> > > > > people who refuse to research or assume, hey I

> > > > have hypogonadism,

> > > > > blah blah blah. Or, I have been sick blah blah

> > > > blah.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I try to explain, Im 29 and was born with a

> > > > birth defect that was

> > > > > mis diagnosed. TRT could have corrected this

> > > > problem pre-puberty

> > > > but

> > > > > unfortuately wasn't. If my parents were more

> > like

> > > > you, perhaps they

> > > > > would have picked up on my social and

> > emotional

> > > > withdraws, learning

> > > > > disabilities, never dating, etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I havent killed myself for reasons I know

> > are

> > > > valid and profound,

> > > > > nor have I abused anything other than porn.

> > Some

> > > > how, without

> > > > > support while still living as a virgin and

> > > > out-cast, I will become

> > > > > something profound and successful. Thanks

> > Vickie,

> > > > and continue to

> > > > be

> > > > > a super parent and never take anything your

> > > > children say or do with

> > > > > a naive and heedless mentality. Ask questions

> > if

> > > > you must, and if

> > > > > their grades are poor, work with them and see

> > if a

> > > > more serious

> > > > > problem is the cause. Love and support them no

> > > > matter what. Never

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I never had a sperm test, where I had to .... into a tube. My

doctors indicated from other tests my level of hypogonadism. I knew

being born with an unscended testis, that primary hypogandism wasn't

incorrect. Cannot wait until testis cancer and prostate

problems......

---------------------------------------

Hey Elliot Baker, can you please reply to this and tell me just

exactly where you got confirmed information that you are going to

have testicular cancer and also prostate problems? I don't think

you can, I think you just conjured up that you are destined for that.

I have news for you, I am primary from birth and I can easily beat

any poor me story you have come up with posting on this list. I am

56 years old now and I don't have cancer or prostate problems.

My point to you is that your negative projections are unfounded and

unwarranted. Life is hard enough without wallowing in an imaginary

bad future. I am not lecturing, just giving my thoughts.

You and I especially know we cannot change the past and make it right

or " normal " for us. We just deal with this until we die anyway.

My life got a lot better when I quit feeling sorry for myself and

looked around and saw all the human and animal suffering going on all

over the world, suffering much worse than hypogonadism as you know.

Maybe you should consider joining me in atheism, it sure makes

reconciling the notion of " fairness " or " why me " very easy to deal

with. Just a personal suggestion, not preaching anything here.

Norton

[Guest guest]

Elliot didn't make anything up...testicular cancer is higher in men

with undecended testicles. Testicular cancer makes up 1% of all male

cancers. 10% of TCa cases have a history of undecended testical/s.

There is no relationship between same and an increased risk of

prostate cancer though. FYI...My husband has had both types of

cancer so yeah, we asked and researched the subject. Hope it helps.

Vickie

In , " nort828 " <nort828@...> wrote:

>

>

> >

> > I never had a sperm test, where I had to .... into a tube. My

> doctors indicated from other tests my level of hypogonadism. I

knew

> being born with an unscended testis, that primary hypogandism

wasn't

> incorrect. Cannot wait until testis cancer and prostate

> problems......

> ---------------------------------------

> Hey Elliot Baker, can you please reply to this and tell me just

> exactly where you got confirmed information that you are going to

> have testicular cancer and also prostate problems? I don't think

> you can, I think you just conjured up that you are destined for

that.

> I have news for you, I am primary from birth and I can easily beat

> any poor me story you have come up with posting on this list. I am

> 56 years old now and I don't have cancer or prostate problems.

> My point to you is that your negative projections are unfounded and

> unwarranted. Life is hard enough without wallowing in an imaginary

> bad future. I am not lecturing, just giving my thoughts.

> You and I especially know we cannot change the past and make it

right

> or " normal " for us. We just deal with this until we die anyway.

> My life got a lot better when I quit feeling sorry for myself and

> looked around and saw all the human and animal suffering going on

all

> over the world, suffering much worse than hypogonadism as you know.

> Maybe you should consider joining me in atheism, it sure makes

> reconciling the notion of " fairness " or " why me " very easy to deal

> with. Just a personal suggestion, not preaching anything here.

> Norton

>

[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry for what you endure emotionally , but you have to

understand it has less to do with hypgonadism and more to do with

your other unrelated health problems. If the Ritilan does help, the

world may look a lot better to you. Not perfect bu t more tollerable

so you can have a more normal lifestyle. I sure hope so.

Vickie

In , paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

>

>

> hi eliot i have sadi this before

>

> i dont want any female contact ,i dont want to even

> have to see them if psosble which is why i stay at

> home as much as possible,i hated seeing them at work

> orr college,but i feel same about most blokes as well

>

> the only person i like and feel comformtable to be

> aound is me

>

>

> i am now even more serious in wanting some drug or op

> that can makle me totally disisnterested in opposite

> sex,thinking about women on buses and trains and any

> situation mucks up my head and my already damahged

> thought processes so no online dating ,no dating full

> stop

>

> i hwent out with last girl,if she had not asked me i

> wiuld not of botheres,i know now after that appalling

> experriance i most diefinately dont want female

> company and only bare male compoany rarely.

>

>

> any help i seek is to help me do toher things and not

> to seek sexual female company or even non sexual

> femail company me and females apart from perhaps an

> odd coffee with one or two i now on a very rarre basis

> is off limits to me.

>

> anything that does not do as i want i discard so work

> i tried it ,it does not like me so out it

> went,family/friends and anything that gets in my way

> ib dispose of or ration and limit.

>

> i have myself to think about and not the thoughts of

> others near me,if i do sort my issues out then fine

> who knows i may be differant his ritalin is a chanvce

> to try and see what it does good or bad ,then choixes

> on other things adhd wise or trt wise may be

> avaialble,but not with the local endo thats for sure

> when i find he has died or lost his job then maybe i

> will try again

>

>

> till then no way,the tea lady prob knows more than he

> does

>

> regards paul

>

>

>

> n has

> > their own life to lead.

> >

> > I give you much credit . I know you can further

> > over come and I know how difficult it is to amend

> > elements within your life. Continue to seek

> > treatment . Have you tried online dating

> > services? I have but its complex to continue and

> > explain why Im out-of-work and why Im me.

> >

> > Let a female you feel profound towards either accept

> > your size and dispositions or not. Every female is

> > different in what she likes and dislikes. If she

> > doesnt, its not the end of the world, even if it

> > feels that way. Move on, and play the percentages.

> > You are a descent guy that deserves happiness, same

> > as me.

> >

> > Perhaps, once you feel content with your self, you

> > can show others you deserve better.

> >

> > Lets trade. You can have brittney Spears, and I'll

> > take that Corrine Baily Rae. I'll throw in the porn

> > version of spears also. Oh, and tell Corrine her

> > hubby STAYS in England!

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Access over 1 million songs - Music

> > Unlimited.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a

> > more powerful email and get things done faster.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

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>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hello , I also enjoy reading your posts. Maybe Im wrong. I was

> under the impression very low FSH and LH and Low T equal Primary

> Hypogonadism. It did in my situation and I have researched. I may

> start adding links, etc to confirm my findings.

>

Primary means testicular failure. Characteristics are relatively low

testosterone and relatively high LH & FSH.

Secondary means that LH & FSH are too low to maintain adequate levels

of testosterone. Low t & low LH & FSH.

Brad

[Guest guest]

>

> Perhaps, someone like Brad or Phil, can convert the 330 too 400 MG I

> take per two weeks into Androgel MG? (Any thing less and I will feel

> side effects).

>

> I think I may want to try the gel again. Even if I have to do it every

> day.

>

I can't make a useful calculation. Too many things are unknown. For

example, the androgel insert estimates you'll absorb about 10% thru

the skin. That may be a good average but we know individual men can

vary considerably from that.

You just have to guess at a starting dose & adjust based on labs &

symptoms.

400mg/2wks is a fairly high dose. It's effectively twice my dose.

Off the top of my head, I think you'd have difficulty getting an

equivalent amount of testosterone from androgel. Unless your skin is

especially permeable or you're going to use large gobs of androgel.

Good luck,

Brad

[Guest guest]

>

> Hello Tim from England. Nice words. It would be nice if most women

would not find humor in a penis that was smaller but I understand,

it all depends on the female and not the stereotype.

>

> Perhaps, given you are from England, you and can talk. Maybe

you have some answers he seeks or maybe just some advice on health

insurances, doctors, faith, relationships, etc.

>

> Of course Tim, if you feel uncomfortable don't. But, I figured

could use someone closer as well. Don't worry , I'll still

be around. Not going anywhere.

>

>

> I will see what I can do - have had a breakdown recently ref this,

but strangely enough has brought my love closer - she has been

constant and is genuine about the sex we have - she tries to please

me

>

> ---------------------------------

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