Re: We saw the dr finally

[Guest guest]

>

> I took my husband to the Endo today, it was our first visit.

> After asking him many questions and examining him, the dr. decided to

> remove from ALL his replacements for 5 weeks, draw labs and see

> what his baselines are. (havent we done that already?) Then he stated

> he would be able to determine if the problem is terticular or

> pituitary. He agreed with me that we need to find out why this

> happenned, although, he stated it could be idiopathic with no cause.

> He stated that if the problem is Pituitary, he will have to have

> an MRI to make sure he does not have a tumor of some kind. I asked

> him, as well as my husband, about the Estroidial (spelling) or E2 test

> that we have heard so much about here. He said that he does not run

> that test unless the patient is developing breasts. (ok) so he will NOT

> run it.

> I just feel like it had been about 1 year and we are constantly

> playing the waiting game. I am getting frustrated and so is .

>

You need to stick to your guns, there is no reason they cant request a

$6 test, we called Quest and according the person we spoke with the E2

test was only $6.00 so what is the big deal?

I have been to five doctors so far and had to write the test in my

self then question my Endo on the results when they came back high.

She finally gave in and agreed on me trying Arimidex and I had

enlarged breast already.

I have only been at this for six months but have been sick for over

five years and been put through the ringer by doctors and have no

patience for those who won’t work with you, keep looking until you

find one that is willing to listen and work with you and learn new

things, I think many of these doctors are stuck on what they learned

fifteen plus years ago and are unwilling to accept new ideas.

Your husband shouldn’t have to suffer because they don’t keep up on

the latest information, find one who does.

Best wishes to you and your husband,

[Guest guest]

I am sorry to hear you got sucked into this by some dam Endo. I was went down

this road 7 times off meds for 2 to 12 weeks and they never found out what was

wrong with me but how dam sick they made me. And last yr. I got my Dr. let me

add HCG to my TRT and his is how I found out I have a Pituitary Problem. The

Endo's never found it they will not see anymore then his first tests and being

on TRT and stoping is not going to show the picture because he has been on TRT

and his HTPA is shut down. And any Dr. that only tests Estradol if one has

breasts is not up on TRT.

If your husband just did a HCG stim. test this would tell if he is secondary

the do an MRI way make him suffer. On the bottom of page 12 in this link is

this test.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

I am sorry but this is a waste of money and time Endo's are just not good

Dr.'s for TRT.

Phil

longsally1112 <longsally1112@...> wrote:

I took my husband to the Endo today, it was our first visit.

After asking him many questions and examining him, the dr. decided to

remove from ALL his replacements for 5 weeks, draw labs and see

what his baselines are. (havent we done that already?) Then he stated

he would be able to determine if the problem is terticular or

pituitary. He agreed with me that we need to find out why this

happenned, although, he stated it could be idiopathic with no cause.

He stated that if the problem is Pituitary, he will have to have

an MRI to make sure he does not have a tumor of some kind. I asked

him, as well as my husband, about the Estroidial (spelling) or E2 test

that we have heard so much about here. He said that he does not run

that test unless the patient is developing breasts. (ok) so he will NOT

run it.

I just feel like it had been about 1 year and we are constantly

playing the waiting game. I am getting frustrated and so is .

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:41:21 -0000, you wrote:

> I took my husband to the Endo today, it was our first visit.

>After asking him many questions and examining him, the dr. decided to

>remove from ALL his replacements for 5 weeks, draw labs and see

>what his baselines are. (havent we done that already?) Then he stated

>he would be able to determine if the problem is terticular or

>pituitary. He agreed with me that we need to find out why this

>happenned, although, he stated it could be idiopathic with no cause.

> He stated that if the problem is Pituitary, he will have to have

>an MRI to make sure he does not have a tumor of some kind. I asked

>him, as well as my husband, about the Estroidial (spelling) or E2 test

>that we have heard so much about here. He said that he does not run

>that test unless the patient is developing breasts. (ok) so he will NOT

>run it.

> I just feel like it had been about 1 year and we are constantly

>playing the waiting game. I am getting frustrated and so is .

It's sad so many doctors start people on T replacement without running

the necessary tests first. But they are doing the right thing. DOn't

fear the tumor talk. They are exceedingly common, virtually always

benign if they are there and most respond to medication and don't need

treatment. ly lots of us would be happier to be taking the med to

suppress a benign tumor than a lifetime of testosterone injections

with all of the balancing issues, etc.

But you need to get this doctor to test for E2. It is essential. He's

talking 1950s medicine with waiting for breast nonsense.

You need to take him this article:

http://www.endotext.org/male/male17/maleframe17.htm

There are also studies showing that some men can get a 200-300 point

boost in total T when they simply control their estrogen levels. No T

replacement at all involved. (Can someone supply that link again?)

You need to insist on the E2 test. It also has to be sensitive assay.

(Most labs use less sensitive methods because they test only women

who's levels are very much higher. )

Insist. Educate the doctor. This can be tricky. But medical studies

are usually something they accept. Mine listens to me some when I note

this group has several thousand patients who are seeing doctors around

the world including some of the best in the field. As a group they

know a lot . Then present the studies.

For your own piece of mind read

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

This book helps :

http://www.amazon.com/Testosterone-Syndrome-Eugene-Shippen/dp/087131858X/sr=1-1/\

qid=1164223634/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-5934762-2171036?ie=UTF8 & s=books]

And

http://www.endo-society.org/quickcontent/clinicalpractice/clinical-guidelines/up\

load/AndrogensMenGuideline053006.pdf

Once you get test results come back (sooner if you need it.)

E2 needs to be tested before T therapy - but then it needs to be

tested for after starting also because T converts into E2 with lots of

problems if there is too much conversion.

-----

" Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the

power to make you commit atrocities. " - Voltaire

[Guest guest]

It is apparent to me that this doctor is not up to date on the latest

treatments. He is asking you to crash - you will feel like crap for 4 weeks and

for what - to see you are low on T. I would really consider staying on my

treatment and seek the help of another Dr. If he won't test for estradiol (until

you have breast) what good is that. Call around and find a Uro or a GP and

discuss your situation with them prior to making an appointment. If you take in

the proper documentation to support your request, a good doctor (that does not

have a God complex) will help you out. As long as I can support my request with

medical studies or documents, both my URO and GP have been willing to let me try

what I think is appropriate for me - after all its your life not theirs.

Arkansas

longsally1112 <longsally1112@...> wrote:

I took my husband to the Endo today, it was our first visit.

After asking him many questions and examining him, the dr. decided to

remove from ALL his replacements for 5 weeks, draw labs and see

what his baselines are. (havent we done that already?) Then he stated

he would be able to determine if the problem is terticular or

pituitary. He agreed with me that we need to find out why this

happenned, although, he stated it could be idiopathic with no cause.

He stated that if the problem is Pituitary, he will have to have

an MRI to make sure he does not have a tumor of some kind. I asked

him, as well as my husband, about the Estroidial (spelling) or E2 test

that we have heard so much about here. He said that he does not run

that test unless the patient is developing breasts. (ok) so he will NOT

run it.

I just feel like it had been about 1 year and we are constantly

playing the waiting game. I am getting frustrated and so is .

---------------------------------

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with the Search weather shortcut.

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:01:42 -0000, you wrote:

>You need to stick to your guns, there is no reason they cant request a

>$6 test, we called Quest and according the person we spoke with the E2

>test was only $6.00 so what is the big deal?

That seems incredibly low. Color me skeptical. Especially for a

sensitive assay.

-----

" Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the

power to make you commit atrocities. " - Voltaire

[Guest guest]

I would ask his doctor " why " one would think it prudent to

wait until a male develops breasts. At that point is it not

too late? As in thousands of dollars of liposuction then

being needed? After the fact? Too high or too low estrogen

WILL kill a male's libido. To take him completely off

testosterone replacement is irresponsible, and cruel.

I advise you to tell this doctor to read the ACE guidelines,

in fact print them out and highight the estrogen testing

guidelines, and then tell him that it is your husbands body

AND your money, and you want his estrogen blood tested.

Period. Demand it.

That is what I had to do with my endocrinologist, who

took the same uneducated, moronic, position initially.

Norton

[Guest guest]

I took my husband to the Endo today, it was our first visit. After asking him

many

questions and examining him, the dr. decided to

remove from ALL his replacements for 5 weeks, draw labs and see

what his baselines are. (havent we done that already?)

Did you have your husband's previous lab tests sent to this endo? Also, I had

to go off of

all exogenous T inorder to have a fertility work up and to have my pituitary

tested. I am

secondary which means that I have very low LH levels and practically no FSH.

Then he stated

he would be able to determine if the problem is terticular or

pituitary. He agreed with me that we need to find out why this

happenned, although, he stated it could be idiopathic with no cause.

If the determination of whether your husband has primary (testicle failure) or

secondary

hypogonadism has not been made, the doctor should have ordered the MRI upfront.

Also,

if this endo is worth a hill of beans, he should have ordered a bone scan as

well. Men with

long term low levels of T often develop osteoporosis.

He stated that if the problem is Pituitary, he will have to have

an MRI to make sure he does not have a tumor of some kind. I asked

him, as well as my husband, about the Estroidial (spelling) or E2 test

that we have heard so much about here. He said that he does not run

that test unless the patient is developing breasts. (ok) so he will NOT

run it.

Any good doctor or endo who works with TRT knows that you any time you add T to

the

system you have to watch out for aromatase activity. This is done by an enzyme

that

breaks Testosterone down to estrogen. If the doctor will not run the sensitive

estrogen

test up front and when your husband is on exogenous T, get a new doctor.

From experience it is far easier to prevent gynecomastia that treating it once

it starts to

develop. A popular treatment is to use tamoxifin which blocks the estrogen

receptors in

human breast tissue, and as a result, estrogen can not lock on the the E

receptors in the

breast tissue.

I have dealt with three different endocrinologists, and to be honest I like

working with my

GP as he is open to reading the articles and ACCE handbook that I gave him. If

you do not

have a good T/E ratio, adding additional T will often be a waste of time or even

make a

man feel worse. Also one key is that if a man's E levels are even approaching

the higher or

mid high levels, he runs the risk of becoming impotent.

I just feel like it had been about 1 year and we are constantly

playing the waiting game. I am getting frustrated and so is .

Let us know how things work out. One key thing to remember is that TRT is not

about just

being in range. It is about fine tuning a man's hormone levels to achieve the

best quality

of life. If the doc just goes by lab ranges, he is missing half of the picture,

and there are

more than a few endocrinologists who do not really know what they are doing with

TRT,

and they are often very arrogant if you bring some of the medical journal

articles and

treatment protocols found on this web site.

[Guest guest]

Arrongance and contempt among endocrinologist and eurologist hs been a staple in

my search for proper practicioner. I have a new apintmnet with new eurologist

who knows about Hypo. I cant wait to talk to a real pro. Tthe sky will be the

limit for all treatment options and results !

sbryant511 <sbryant511@...> wrote: I took my husband to the Endo

today, it was our first visit. After asking him many

questions and examining him, the dr. decided to

remove from ALL his replacements for 5 weeks, draw labs and see

what his baselines are. (havent we done that already?)

Did you have your husband's previous lab tests sent to this endo? Also, I had to

go off of

all exogenous T inorder to have a fertility work up and to have my pituitary

tested. I am

secondary which means that I have very low LH levels and practically no FSH.

Then he stated

he would be able to determine if the problem is terticular or

pituitary. He agreed with me that we need to find out why this

happenned, although, he stated it could be idiopathic with no cause.

If the determination of whether your husband has primary (testicle failure) or

secondary

hypogonadism has not been made, the doctor should have ordered the MRI upfront.

Also,

if this endo is worth a hill of beans, he should have ordered a bone scan as

well. Men with

long term low levels of T often develop osteoporosis.

He stated that if the problem is Pituitary, he will have to have

an MRI to make sure he does not have a tumor of some kind. I asked

him, as well as my husband, about the Estroidial (spelling) or E2 test

that we have heard so much about here. He said that he does not run

that test unless the patient is developing breasts. (ok) so he will NOT

run it.

Any good doctor or endo who works with TRT knows that you any time you add T to

the

system you have to watch out for aromatase activity. This is done by an enzyme

that

breaks Testosterone down to estrogen. If the doctor will not run the sensitive

estrogen

test up front and when your husband is on exogenous T, get a new doctor.

From experience it is far easier to prevent gynecomastia that treating it once

it starts to

develop. A popular treatment is to use tamoxifin which blocks the estrogen

receptors in

human breast tissue, and as a result, estrogen can not lock on the the E

receptors in the

breast tissue.

I have dealt with three different endocrinologists, and to be honest I like

working with my

GP as he is open to reading the articles and ACCE handbook that I gave him. If

you do not

have a good T/E ratio, adding additional T will often be a waste of time or even

make a

man feel worse. Also one key is that if a man's E levels are even approaching

the higher or

mid high levels, he runs the risk of becoming impotent.

I just feel like it had been about 1 year and we are constantly

playing the waiting game. I am getting frustrated and so is .

Let us know how things work out. One key thing to remember is that TRT is not

about just

being in range. It is about fine tuning a man's hormone levels to achieve the

best quality

of life. If the doc just goes by lab ranges, he is missing half of the picture,

and there are

more than a few endocrinologists who do not really know what they are doing with

TRT,

and they are often very arrogant if you bring some of the medical journal

articles and

treatment protocols found on this web site.

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